24 total posts
Bottom line is....
....they do it because they can.
They hand us a lot of bunk about ATMs costing them piles of money to maintain and operate, but they don't bother to offset that against the cost of the additional tellers they'd need if they didn't have that ATM.
I hate it too but short of opening my own bank, there isn't a whole lot you can do other than shop for the bank with the least painful fees.
Even though I placed banks on the front of the list, many a business want to jump on. Recently, NW Airlines wants to charge passenagers that want to sit on an aisle seat. Woooo, the aisle, now you got to pay for the ailse. Now, you know the seat didn't get any better and smell so good, ;), but it seems a "premium" has to be paid if you ask for it. I think banks will charge for the pens you use if they could when on the customer desk/table. outa here -----Willy
.... is fighting going into bankruptcy.
The test will be if they drop the seat fee if they survive. I'd hope they use those fees to pay the mechanics.
Now, I always tried to get an aisle seat when there was assigned seating. But Southwest has the right idea.... first come, first served.
I would favor an extra charge for some of the stuff people bring into the cabins, and jam it into the overheads.
But I know what you mean about banks. Do you recall several years ago when they wanted to save the tellers for the big depositers and make the average ones use the ATM? I never use those. I do use a bank for everyday stuff and electronic bill paying (free) but the bulk is with the credit union.
I don't undertand "debit cards". Sure, no need to write a check. But I see folks spending the same time punching in their PINS at checkouts. Too many others standing around that might read those numbers for me. If I didn't want to write a check I'd use my credit card because it offers protection a debit card does not. But, to each his own.
My phone and cable bills have a litany of "fees". I think the total should be included when they advertise X amount of dollars per month for the services chosen.
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(NT) I use my debit card like a credit card and sign
Debit cards are MUCH more convenient than checking
Someone would have to GET my debit card and remember my PIN for it to be any good to them. So that's not a huge issue to me -- I won't use an ATM in an enclosed lobby alone at night or anything for that reason, because sometimes someone else comes in and that is just nerve wracking. No way it's as fast to write out a check and have the cashier have to check an ID and write the number on it etc. If I lost my purse, I would be more concerned about a checkbook and any checkcashing cards I had for a supermarket than the security of the debit card. I used to have a few check cards that didn't require ID to write the check. Write for up to $50 over at each place and up to $200 on groceries AIR. I figure a thief could have made out with at least $500 in a couple of places and I don't think I would have any protection. My bank has "credit card" like protection on the debit card.
I use mine all the time. Get cash over -- for free. Basically I rarely go to the ATM at all. I also rarely carry much cash.
Debit cards are a convience but you pay for that one way or another. Regardless of the protection, its still direct access to your money. Its not fake money but real money in that once withdrawn from acct. its gone. Far too many banks differ in how they protect you and many don't offer if any protection and consider it tough luck on your part. Further, debit users tend to spend more when using it and while good for the vendor as said above, once you withdraw funds you may find yourself too quickly lacking. Thus, you kick-in a "overdraw" protection and that costs and if you still wrote checks and they haven't gotten clear yet, those get charged as well a fee. A user can get into trouble easily if not on guard and banks frankly don't care, they want those fees. I have a debit but only for business use in order to keep a record of expenses. Now business debit protection differs from consumer debit and Gawd, I hope I nevr drop my card. enuf said... -----Willy
well yeah anybody can get in trouble
with their funds in many ways. The bak isn't responsible for personal stupidity or carelessness.
I use my ATM/Debit card all the time. I'm at Bankof America and with their protection you can not lose more than $50 if your card is lost or stolen.
Me too ...
... and we have savings account there too, so the balance in checking is kept relatively low by transferring to savings online.
Get a new bank, and ...
...don't keep all your money in that account. I frankly don't care what other banks' debit card policies and fees are. There are several banks that have excellent ones. Pick one of those. I don't have much sympathy for users who get themselves in trouble because they can't handle a debit card. Let them not get one then!
Where there are limits to the protections on your money, you can choose to keep less money in that account. On the flip side, nobody can spend money that's not in an account!
People "pay" for the convenience of checking too if you want to go there!
PIN is no guarantee of safety
My debit card is a debit VISA, which can be used as either a debit or credit card. If I choose Credit, I don't need to enter a PIN.
I never understood the distinction anyway, since the money comes straight out of my checking account either way.
The other day I didn't have to sign my CC ...
... at CVS. Was told that for under $25 they no longer require a signature. With how lax many merchants are in checking signatures, etc., I find a debit card with a PIN safer than anything you sign. My BoA debit always goes through as a debit card -- requiring a PIN -- except at the gas pump. On occasion it's gone through as a CC, but when I swipe it anywhere defaults to asking for the pin. The back of mine is not signed. So hopefully that provides some protection against it being used as a CC if someone finds it because at least most check the signature panel even if for a second.
In the end there's no ultimate security in anything. Yes, the CC is the most secure, but you can't get cash over which is very convenient. And I've had a few friends that had to make use of the protections when their cards were lost, but it takes time too. But BoA does offer the same protection for their debit cards.
I probably go to an actual bank or bank machine once a month. I don't like to carry around a lot of cash so I like being able to get mine at every grocery or department store when I'm there already using the card to purchase groceries or incidentals. I probably average less than $20/week of spending cash. I don't think I'll ever go through the supply of free checks we got when we opened the account!
(NT) What fees do you pay and WHY?
New fee - bank will charge $5 after 6 automated transactions
Another one, a cashiers check will go from $3 to $5. Now what costs raised so much that it costs 80%(or is that 66%) more. -----Willy
One way to avoid ATM fees.....
....is to use your debit card when shopping and request cash back. There are no fees for this. For now.
(NT) Depends on the store and the bank
I know some banks charge for using the debit card, but I've never heard of a store charging to use it.
RE: request cash back.
It just ties up the retailer's cash flow. An expense passed on to shoppers. Barely phazes the bank as for them such transactions are usually completed in micro seconds regardless the time or date of posting.
I've made no bones about changing banks and letting the BM's know it. Banking has become an extremely competetive and saturated industry. Transfered personal checking accounts three times and savings accounts five times since 1999 and in this time paid I am sure less than $25 in maintenence and transaction fees. And I rarely pay for check printing and pay nearly all of my obligations online with no fees.
Getting out of paying even [required] fees is nowadays liken to getting a CC APR reduced. A polite and tactful call or visit to BM's and often they'll work with folks.
Generally [shopping around] as a way of life tends to pay off more than many folks realize.
Ties up retailers cash flow
Well, some smaller merchants will put limits (like $20) on cash back, or not give it at all. They aren't required to in order to accept debit cards AFAIK. Any cost of this is likely offset by the time saved vs. writing out a check. And it's safer for both the consumer and the merchant than the check cashing cards many groceries offer.
Find a new bank
Why the need for cashier's checks? I've had to get maybe 10 in my lifetime (closings on home, car purchase, etc.). I think they raise the cost so that people only use that service when really needed!
That is just one reason to use a Credit Union
I belong to 3 for convience. I don't use ATM's...never had a need. Having one checking account and doing most of my banking with one CU for the past 35 years, they even give me free American Express Travelers checks, free money orders, and free Cashier's checks because of my longivity (not because of the $$ amount I have with them). My checking account is also free with a minimun $300 balance & pays interest. The only 'fee' is when I have to obtain new checks, but I get them through 'mail order' much cheaper than the CU or a Bank.
They're designed to make their PROFITS better, Willy!
Service hasn't been number 1 for decades!
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
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The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
Decades ago, you could only get at your money 9am-3pm Monday through Friday. Interest on savings accounts was compounded quarterly. You paid for checking. No debit cards. No phone transfers. No direct deposit. No ATM's. No online bill pay. etc. etc. etc.
Life is SO much better now when it comes to personal banking there's not even a comparison. As cacktus suggests, anyone that is really dissatisfied ought to think about shopping around.
The times I've gotten nabbed by the banks it's been my fault. The last instance it wasn't my fault with the last bank, made them my "last bank" and no longer my current bank!
Banks and others and thier fees
They are just flourishing their own business without care for anybody else.