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Bad news for DeLay's crew.

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just what i said to myself when i read the post

In reply to: Bad news for DeLay's crew.

Terry Scarborough, a defense lawyer for the committee, said the case was more about Democrats' anger over losing than about the actions of DeLay or of Texas House Speaker Tom Craddick....

if the 5 democrats had got what they paid for, would they be complaining?....


.

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He's a defense lawyer

In reply to: just what i said to myself when i read the post

It's his job to make his client look as good as possible and make the plaintiff into the villain.

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all lawyers are liars?

In reply to: He's a defense lawyer

asimov used it i think Happy

.

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I've seen them called worse

In reply to: all lawyers are liars?

Not necessarily liars, just carefully selecting pieces of information to spin their side of the story.

The judge wasn't using "spin" when he made his ruling though.

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The article didn't say ...

In reply to: I've seen them called worse

... whether there was any FEC investigation/ruling. Wouldn't that be the place to ejudicate this?

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(NT) (NT) It was a state law that was violated.

In reply to: The article didn't say ...

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Missed that ...

In reply to: (NT) It was a state law that was violated.

... but isn't there a state election commission? Normally fines aren't paid from one campaign to another. I'm guessing this isn't the end of this and it will probably get overturned. This seems to be a reporting issue, not that the funds were raised illegally. Failure to report funds raised shouldn't really effect the outcome of an election unless by some twisted scheme each side is only allowed to raise so much until the other catches up, etc. If they broke the law then let them pay the fine, but paying funds to losing candidates just doesn't sound right to me.

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No State Election Commission, Evie.

In reply to: Missed that ...

As with all too many states, Texas elections are overseen by a partisan official, in this case the Secretary of State, appointed by the governor. As with Katherine Harris in 2000 and the Ohio Secretary of State, this sort of situation does not pass the "smell test," even if the officials in question actually are doing their best to be fair and impartial. And I'm sure that Republicans can easily name some similar situations where the official in charge is a Democrat -- point is, the position should be scrupulously nonpartisan.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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(NT) (NT) Kind of like the Clintons, especially Big Bill.

In reply to: I've seen them called worse

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Kind of like a lot of people, KP

In reply to: (NT) Kind of like the Clintons, especially Big Bill.

Yup, Bill Clinton knew how to parse words. He didn't invent the tactic though.

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Who is to say that

In reply to: just what i said to myself when i read the post

the outcome would have been the same if DeLay's boys had acted (realizing that the odds of this are small) legally?

"Got what they paid for"? Do you mean if they had won? If they had won they probably would not have pressed the case. What's your point? If they had, the same people who supported DeLay's committee's illegal actions in this case would have been even more hysterical at the "poor winners" filing suit.

Dan

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You miss the point, Jonah.

In reply to: just what i said to myself when i read the post

This is the first judicial acknowledgement (by a Republican judge, I believe) that the PAC that funded the Republican takeover of the Texas legislature, which in turn led to a gerrymandered swing of six or seven US House seats to the GOP, acted illegally. It has numerous political implications, for texas and the US House, but it's definitely not good news for DeLay.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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The Judge was a Democrat

In reply to: You miss the point, Jonah.

So if you believe a Republican Secretary of State is necessarily partisan, you must believe the same for the Democrat.

Sounds like an issue of reporting contributions. I would think that the Dems getting paid damages would have to prove that the "crime" resulted in their losses. Nowhere does it indicate the contributions were illegal and that the election outcome was influenced by the reporting issue. If they ran afoul of reporting requirements then they deserve (like anyone else) to pay a fine. But doesn't payment to candidates seem a bit much even for you? Or since their Democrats it's OK?

Evie Happy

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"DeLay has not been accused of any wrongdoing."

In reply to: Bad news for DeLay's crew.

And I don't see the FEC ruling here. Meanwhile:

The FEC fines Jackson/Dems $200K

The Democratic Party, the Rev. Jesse Jackson and two groups associated with the civil rights activist have agreed to pay a total of $200,000 in civil fines for campaign finance violations in the 2000 elections.

At issue in the Federal Election Commission case was about $450,000 in election spending by Jackson, the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition and the Citizenship Education Fund using funds from the groups. The two non-profit groups were incorporated, making their money corporate and subject to restrictions under federal campaign finance laws.

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Speaking of investigations, check out "The Tennessee Waltz"

In reply to: Bad news for DeLay's crew.

(Not the same kind of accusations.)

Several Tennessee leaders have been charged in a federal investigation. Among those indicted was controversial senator John Ford. All seven politicans are charged with taking bribes from undercover federal investigators in an effort to influence legislation. Four are current lawmakers, and the fifth a former senator.

Three legislators were brought before a federal magistrate Thursday afternoon in handcuffs. One by one, the prominent Tennessee lawmakers came out of the Nashville Federal Courthouse after being arrested by FBI agents and hearing the indictments against them. The first was longtime Chattanooga Democratic Sen. Ward Crutchfield.


http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=3396502&nav=1ugBaKrK

This is the outcome of an FBI "sting". I know they are innocent until proven guilty. But I have often said on this board that State (and Local) governments are just as prone to shenanigans as the Federal one. Reckon it will always be that way as long as humans are in a seat of power.

It is always sad to hear about the will of the people through elections being sullied.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Angeline. when a sting like this

is so lopsidely aimed at one party (because probably half of all politicians will take a bribe if offered, regardless of party affiliation), one wonders if there might not be a political motive in the target selection, especially when it's a DOJ sting.

This is not a defense of the Democrats, if guilty they be. But the Tennessee legislature is only marginally under Democratic control (it's about where the Texas legislature was before DeLay and co bought the 2002 election with illegal corporate contributions). Wouldn't you expect a closer to 50-50 Republican/Democrat ratio in those targeted?

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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When Delay does it, he should go to jail. When a Dem does it

In reply to: Angeline. when a sting like this

it's an unfair 'sting', and 'everybody does it'. The term double standard comes to mind.

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That would come to mind if

In reply to: When Delay does it, he should go to jail. When a Dem does it

what you proposed was anywhere near what Dave stated. It most decidedly was not. He explicitly withheld his support for any guilty Democrats.

Dan

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Totally unfair message, KP

First, I specifically said that I wasn't defending the Dems' actions. Second, DeLay didn't need a sting to break Texas election law (allegedly Happy ) -- he did it all with malice aforethought!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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No way, DaveK !

In reply to: Angeline. when a sting like this

The ratio was pretty much on target. Our legislature holds a Democrat majority.

Later news stories revealed that other legislators had been approached with offers of money, sports tickets, et cetera, but they refused. Only quite recently had our legislature passed a viable ethics law.

Some of those indicted have been there for a long time. I personally know of one who was just about the most arrogant, selfish, self-serving Democrat one could know. But the rules were iffy before.

There Have been several in the previous Republican administration indicted for shenanigans like the awarding of contracts and personally profiting from them. It may very well reach to the former governor.

IMO, party affiliation has absolutely no influence on those who succumb to temptation - or seek out favors. Remember that both sides of the aisle on Capitol Hill were scrambling to clean up their travel records.

Friendship has a direct and an indirect impact on government. Sadly, it has historically come to light that the trust invested in them has been violated. I know I have had it happen to me.

No way was this a conspiracy or plan. It needed to happen, and I believe my state will be better served because of it.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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It wasn't 'Aimed', it was EQUAL OPPORTUNITY...

In reply to: Angeline. when a sting like this

and ONE Republican was caught up in the net.

Uncle John's indictment, which mentions bribery, "bag men" and death threats to undercover FBI agents, combined with his long history of maintaining mistresses on every block in Memphis (AND getting fined $10,000 earlier this month for spending $15,000 in campaign money on his daughter's wedding reception in 2003) was really good news and will likely ruin any slight chance his nephew had of getting elected to the senate to replace Frist when he steps down as he intends.

This comes on the heals of the Federal Election Commission fining the Democrat National Committee and two of the Reverend Jesse Jackson's "non-profit" organizations -- the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition and Citizenship Education Fund -- $100,000 each for orchestrating an illegal partisan voter-registration drive at the behest of the DNC in advance of the 2000 presidential election. The American Conservative Union filed the complaint four years ago and its Chairman, David Keene, sounds pretty happy about the outcome "The word is now out -- crooked election practices that have become the standard of the Left will not be tolerated."

Maybe he should have left out the word 'election'. Devil

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New Chronicle editorial on illegal business contributions

In reply to: Bad news for DeLay's crew.

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First Amendment, Dave.

In reply to: New Chronicle editorial on illegal business contributions

You may not like it but they aren't doong anything illegal or immoral and attempts to curtail legitmate political activity will not stand.

Besides, Democrats do the same thing all the time. Ever heard of Moveon.org?

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