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AVG 2011 last update crash windows 7

My AVG free update today (12-01-2010) then ask for restart I made the restart and my system dont start any more, any one now wath is happend with this update? This is happen a lot of people, here is the forum on AVG website.

http://forums.avg.com/eu-da/avg-free-forum?sec=thread&act=show&id=132275&type=0

Something strange is the date of the update they say 12-02-2010, I dont know is this is the cause of the problem.

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AVG update is working now

In reply to: AVG 2011 last update crash windows 7

AVG take down the update that is crashing windows 7. Now the update is working.

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AVG Anti-virus Crahsing Win7 64-bit

In reply to: AVG 2011 last update crash windows 7

I had the same experience. Computer rebooted after an update to AVG and I got a BSD. In Win7 the BSD during reboot is very brief so it is easy to miss. A recovery screen comes up next. Unfortunately, after the update and reboot you are in a real pickle. AVG automatically downloads the update again and recommends a reboot. You can delay it but once you reboot the computer the sequence repeats.

I decided to remove AVG altogether but was unable to do that; it failed to uninstall completely and kept going after the buggy update. Then I found a removal tool on the AVG website and after several tries I was able to get AVG off my machine.

Then I read here that the rotten update had been removed from AVG's servers. I then reinstalled AVG and so far everyting is okay. This time AVG cost me only a little time and frustration and nearly cost me some business. If this ever happens again I am done with them.

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Re: AVG 2011 last update crash Win7

In reply to: AVG Anti-virus Crahsing Win7 64-bit

Hello all,

please check this thread at AVG Free Forums, which is very probably related with described situation. You can find there also steps, how to disable AVG from computer startup without system restore (How-To).

Please accept our apologies for any inconveniences caused by this situation.

Thank you

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Perhaps AVG should consider QA.

In reply to: Re: AVG 2011 last update crash Win7

Thousands of computers are crashing because AVG doesn't test their products. No QA.

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Re: Perhaps AVG should consider QA

In reply to: Perhaps AVG should consider QA.

Hello scotteverard,

please be informed that AVG updates are fully tested by QA department on various systems (covering all Windows product versions) before their release. This situation was unfortunately caused by improperly published AVG CTF files (they contain information about available update files) after QA testing. We are doing our best to prepare easy solution and to avoid this unpleasant situation in future.

Apologies for any inconveniences caused by this situation.

Thank you

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Ondrej-

In reply to: Re: Perhaps AVG should consider QA

How exactly is that helpful? You're telling us that it was tested, except this one thing that was fatal to our operating systems? "We tested the car, it's just the brakes that went on after testing that failed"? THE THING KILLED OUR COMPUTERS. It doesn't matter what particular file did it. Dig?

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Re:Perhaps AVG should consider QA

In reply to: Re: Perhaps AVG should consider QA

If AVG "fully tested" this update via their QA department...how did this happen? Obviously it was NOT fully tested. I've since recovered from the "inconvenience" but will no longer use AVG. I don't trust your QA.

Scott Everard; CISSP

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Re: Perhaps AVG should consider QA

In reply to: Re:Perhaps AVG should consider QA

Hello Scott and Kenny,

apologies for incomplete description - the update was fully tested before official release and no problem was detected. But then was incorrectly published into public environment.

If I would use your car transition, it is not about the factory, which creates and tests the car, but the transportation to the shop, which unfortunately damages the car on not easily visible deep place.

We do our best to avoid the situation in future.

Once again, sincere apologies for this inconveniences.

Thank you

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Re:Perhaps AVG should consider QA

In reply to: Re: Perhaps AVG should consider QA

AVG Staff: In the spirit of Christmas all is forgiven.
I'm up and running.

Merry Christmas!

Scott

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AVG crashed my computer

In reply to: Re: AVG 2011 last update crash Win7

Too Late!!! I had to restore it back to the beginning and lost everything because I couldn't even start windows to uninstall it...had to call tech support. I immediately uninstalled it off of my other computer and went with Windows Security Essentials like I should've done when someone recommended it back when first AVG 2011 came out.

p.s. From the time I updated to 2011, I've noticed a difference in my computers...almost made me think I had installed a fake virus one--but no, just sh**ty AVG.

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Re: AVG crashed my computer

In reply to: AVG crashed my computer

Hello lisanix74,

please accept our sincere apologies for this unpleasant situation.

For others, still affected computers, you can also use modified AVG Rescue CD for USB medium described at FAQ 4080 (recently with video tutorial), which contains automatic solution, when affected computer is booted from it.

Thank you for your cooperation and patience

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Defective Upgrade

In reply to: AVG Anti-virus Crahsing Win7 64-bit

Wow, am I ever glad I'm not in your shoes! I have read your comments about testing and QA and fully understand that becuase of the way things are set up, one little oversight and--BOOM--all hell breaks loose.

Alas, the understanding of users like me who have managed software development is a check you cannot cash. Therefore, you absolutely must fortify your update process to make such an occurence completely impossible or AVG will surely become one of the software companies of the past. And until everyone at AVG stops thinking that is impossible, you still have a problem. Have you considered adopting the principles of the Capability Maturity Model (Integrated)?

Good luck. I really like your product (except for this oversight), so I hope you can weather this storm.

-=Ted Brengel=-

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Re: Defective Upgrade

In reply to: Defective Upgrade

Hello tbrengel,

we do our best to prepare easiest solution for affected computers and to avoid this situation in future.

Thank you for your feedback

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QA total Failure....

In reply to: Re: Defective Upgrade

Rushing an untested software update to the public is totally inexcuseable. I used AVG free for a year and I was only hours from buying your paid version for 5 business machines. But after spending more than 12 hours repairing two PC's due to your carelessness, I uninstalled all of your products from all of our computers and will never have anything from AVG on them again. You cost my small business at least $600 in lost man-hours and the computer community thousands if not millions of dollars.

Never again, Grisoft - there are other companies out there selling software that employ strict quality control measures to prevent this very kind of thing from happening in the first place. They will get my money, not you.

Stephan

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Let's see who else has failed like this.

In reply to: QA total Failure....

We have Microsoft, McAfee, Symantec. Wait a second. Has anyone got this right?

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QA total Failure....

In reply to: QA total Failure....

Let me know when you figure out "strict quality control measures" to test multiple updates an hour against the billions of combinations of hardware/firmware/software out there with 100% perfection and I'll give you a job!

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Learn to live with it???

In reply to: QA total Failure....

Very true, nobody's perfect. That's why QA is vital. In my case, the 2 pc's that bricked did so after installing AVG's new 2011 "Upgrade" - the entire package platform, not simply a definitions database update. A missed definition or a false-positive, while irritating, is an acceptable risk, but rolling out a new software version with an admitted missed QA step is a whole different can of worms.

Microsoft, McAfee, Norton, Symantec...I bought them all too, eventually uninstalling each of them for a host of reasons - resource hogging and bloat, ridiculous subscription update fees, poor or non-existent support, the list goes on. But none of them ever locked up my machines with no way to escape like this.

Grisoft isn't making millions selling POV shooter games, they're selling basic system protection and peace of mind. If you're in that market, you darn sure have the responsibility to "cross every t" and "dot every i" in your QA program. Failing to do so is unacceptable for more important reasons than the 40-60 bucks.

I guess it's a matter of perspective...not having the use of a game box or a social networking toy might be something we can "learn to live with", but taking 40% of my business down tends to make me a little testy.

Ever consider the consequences of a one in a million failure rate with say, the airline industry? Something on the order of 3,000 people a day being killed. Grisoft killed at least that many PC's this week,and deserves to be publicly taken to task for it.

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Learn to live with it???

In reply to: Learn to live with it???

> "uninstalling each of them for a host of reasons - resource hogging and bloat, ridiculous subscription update fees, poor or non-existent support" ?

You could also have uninstalled Microsoft, McAfee, Norton and Symantec due to the "QA carelessness" of which each of them has fallen foul in the past.

You're living in a dream world. The perfect/foolproof/unbreakable/infallible program doesn't exist ... and it never will.

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Learn to live with it???

In reply to: Learn to live with it???

"You could also have uninstalled Microsoft, McAfee, Norton and Symantec due to the "QA carelessness" of which each of them has fallen foul in the past."

And were subsequently publicly thrashed by the customers who trusted them, too, exactly the pound of flesh I feel entitled to for my trouble.

Visit any discussion board topic where a ton of users got hosed and there is inevitably one or two hanging out willing to happily argue against basic accountability with hubris comments. You made your point, it's reasonable and totally OK for someone to brick YOUR machines this way. Scrolling upwards though, that doesn't seem to be the consensus here. Let us know if you ever decide to start an airline, please.

I said my piece, please spare us any further pontification, oh infinitely wise one...

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You may want to research "Monoculture problems."

In reply to: Learn to live with it???

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Excellent article, and an appreciated response

In reply to: You may want to research "Monoculture problems."

Proffitt, your reply to my posts is so far out of rodzilla's league that I wish I had spent my time reading it and your suggestion instead of letting his hubris get to me. Now that's a legit response from someone who "gets it" and isn't here just to suggest falling in lock-step with the "learn to live with it" mentality.

I totally understand Tobias's article, and couldn't agree more on the monoculture that is infecting computing pursuits beyond gaming and socializing with a metal box. The unfortunate part is, with SO much technology to have to sort through, SO many new things to have to learn to break free from the monoculture, and having to spend most of my time trying to earn a living, I and people like me have little choice but to submit to what's there and what we learned early on as "the way it's done". I so wish I just had the time it takes to make the changes the author recommends, but that won't happen anytime soon as a small businessman. I'd personally be thrilled to run an Apple and not use MSIE and WinXP and Outlook Express and all the other bug collectors, but specific roadblocks such as my company's need to run CAD and other software that Apple just isn't compatible with make that impossible.

Anyway, I wanted to come back after I cooled a bit from rodzilla's mindless rants to say thanks for "getting it" and pointing me in a productive direction rather than just proclaiming yourself as the easy answer man. There are far too many of those on these type of boards, relishing a game they like to call "troll-stomping" when someone gets bricked for trusting someone else, earning themselves personal brownie points and oohs and ahhs from the other forum mall-rat types with too much time on their hands..

Thanks again, wish I could break free of the monoculture, too!

Stephan

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Macs Aren't Immune To Malware.

In reply to: Excellent article, and an appreciated response

Stephan, Mr. Proffitt gave you some bad advice. Running a Mac without AV software is simply not safe. It never really was. http://zacharychastain.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/malware-misconceptions/

I understand that you're upset with AVG, why wouldn't you be, the software messed up your computer. But, as other have pointed out, this has happened to all the major brands, and it will happen to the rest at some point, it's inevitable.

You say that they rush their updates out too quickly without testing thoroughly enough, but if you were here because you had gotten infected with a virus then you would be saying the opposite, that AVG wasn't getting their updates out fast enough to protect you, and that they needed to stop fooling around with testing so much and get the updates out.

The truth is, this is a high demand and fast changing field. There are at least 25,000 new viruses released every day, and all AV vendors have to release updates to keep up with that. You can't test against every combination of hardware and software. Also, if you bother to read, you'll see that the update was thoroughly tested and worked fine. It was just that the files were not released properly.

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I've heard this before.

In reply to: Macs Aren't Immune To Malware.

The antivirus makers have a lot at stake here. Imagine if we didn't need them?

And today's Apple malware requires the user to participate in it's install.

Think about it.
Bob

PS. So that's 25,000 viruses released every day for the Apple? Now that's news or it's FUD.

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Enjoy your malware then. ;)

In reply to: Macs Aren't Immune To Malware.

We have a lot at stake here too. It would be great if we didn't need AV software, and there weren't dangerous criminals out there on the web targeting us all. But that's not the way our world is, we're actually headed in the opposite direction. You're living in a dream world, Proffitt. It would be nice if we could live without burglar alarm system vendors as well, but the fact is that houses are broken into every day. We may not like paying them, but we do need them.

This is just one example, where infected bit-torrent images downloaded new code through a backdoor in Apple's OS, adding the Macs to a botnet. http://www.infosecurity-us.com/view/6841/security-and-malware-threats-to-mac-and-apple-products-are-on-the-rise-/

Sure, you can argue that they had to "participate" in getting the malware on there. But you know what, that participation is no different than the "participation" required to install malware on a Windows PC.

I'll give you this, traditionally Apple's OS has been more secure. But Bob, that's not because Steve Jobs is God. He has not made the perfect OS. It's not magically more secure than Windows. It's been breached less because more people use Microsoft's operating systems. It makes sense to cast a wide net, target the OS that the most people use. 10 years ago, there was barely any malware for the Mac to speak of, if any. But today, that is FAR from the truth.

You should at least be using a product like AVG's LinkScanner for Mac. http://linkscanner.avg.com/Mac/

And no, it's not 25,000 for just the Mac. But it's not 25,000 for just Windows either. Wink And you know what, that number is just going to keep going up and up. Someday, it will be 25,000 exploits a day for *just the Mac.* And it seems that until that day comes, people will not give up the tired notion that Macs are magically invulnerable.

But you know what, that day is not that far off, since the Mac is gaining market share so fast. Think about this, security through obscurity is why Mac has been perceived as more secure for all this time. And ironically, each time someone says, "Use a Mac, because it's more secure, you don't even need AV software!" they're actually contributing to making the software a more enticing target to cyber criminals, and therefore, contributing to making it just as insecure as the Windows platform is today. Or to put it more correctly, exposing the Apple platform to be just as insecure and imperfect as Windows is. Probably more so without AV software.

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Macs arent ....

In reply to: Macs Aren't Immune To Malware.

Hmmm...you missed a couple of important details there, MF20.


Number one, I don't own Macs...I thought I had made that clear, but maybe not. If I did, they would have both AV and AM packages running, too....I was dumb for trusting AVG, but I'm not completely stupid.

Second, the update that bricked my machines was NOT a simple virus definitions update, it was the entire AVG platform update for 2011, the "latest and greatest" version of the entire program. Thought I had made that clear, too...We all expect definitions updates frequently and as quickly as they can get them to us. That's not what I posted about...AVG rushed the 2011 complete platform upgrade out without testing it fully, completely, and redundantly, and we ALL had the time to wait for that to be done BEFORE they rolled it out. To have the 2011 Version upgrade brick thousands of machines was completely inexcuseable. And we're not talking just missing a definition or two, we're talking BSOD on two machines that put bread on my table....and even the "techs' I called to help unlock the machines were grasping at straws. My cost: Right about 11 man hours at $125 per(out of my pocket).

After the whole snafu, AVG sent me a nice, canned pre-written letter saying how sorry they were about the "confusion" and the "inconvenience" and that I should really trust my method of earning a living to them again. So I asked them for one free license of the repaired 2011 full version for evaluation...not unreasonable after what their faulty QA caused, but of course that was "impossible", they wanted me to buy 5 licenses and "try them again"...

When monkeys fly out of my butt and pigs fly, maybe....until then, I've got a business to run.

I am actually very glad at this point (hindsight of course) that this debacle took place. I uninstalled all the AVG stuff off all our machines, replaced it with AVAST, and am so much more impressed with Avast than AVG it's not even funny. First scan Avast picked up two trojans and a rootkit on two machines that AVG had passed over for months and at least a dozen full scans. At the end of this quarter, we're buying the full Avast version for 5 machines and never looking back...AVG can brush this incident under the table all they want, but I can't see how anyone could ever trust an AVG product again after the 2011 Update debacle...they had all the time in the world to make it right before they brought it out, but they didn't...it's that simple...

Slider

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You are misinformed.

In reply to: Macs Aren't Immune To Malware.

Well, I didn't say you did own a Mac, that was conversation I was having with a different person, Mr. Proffitt. And I'm glad that you are not blind to the growing need for AV software on the Mac platform.

I'm afraid you're misinformed though. I'm a very active volunteer on the AVG Facebook page. I beta tested AVG 2011 before it was released to the general public, I upgraded all my own and my client's computers (I'm an IT consultant) to AVG 2011 when it was released, and I saw thousands of people upgrade on the Facebook page. Never once did I see the software "brick" a computer. Not even when it was in beta. You're misunderstanding the cause of the problem. The problem was caused by the bad definition update, not the software itself.

It's possible that you upgraded to AVG 2011 around the same time the update in question was released, so you got hit with the bad update and *then* it "bricked" your computer. But the software is not the cause of thousands of computers suffering this issue, the update was. If the software itself "bricked" your computer, then that would be due to a problem on your own computer, because the software didn't cause this issue for any of the other 110 million people who trust AVG, the update did. As has been stated before, no matter where you go, this is going to happen to an AV vendor at some point.

Also, going to a vendor that this has not happened to yet is probably not the right answer. The ones who have suffered from updates that crashed computers have not been repeat offenders, because they studied what went wrong and adjusted their processes to account for that in the future. Those who haven't been affected by this yet, however, have not had the same learning experience, have not adjusted their processes to account for this, and are ripe for a future update that crashes computers, where as those who have gone through it already have learned from the experience and improved.

Also, beyond just looking at "the AV software crashed my computer" you should also consider how the company handled it. Especially since this is something that could happen to any AV vendor at any time. AVG opened up full phone support to all affected customers, even the free users. On the Facebook page we helped hundreds of people to work through the solution to resolve the issue. (Just to clarify, I do not work for AVG. I am an independent IT consultant who volunteers his time to help people on the AVG Facebook page.) AVG did everything they could to mitigate the problem and help everyone get back up and running at no cost to them.

Furthermore, you are misusing the term "brick." Typically when we say we bricked something, it means we messed up the firmware, and that device is now nothing more than a paperweight. It cannot be fixed. It would be accurate to say AVG bricked your computer if it had overwritten your BIOS and your computer could no longer load an operating system on it. However, this issue was far from un-repairable. AVG released a very simple fix within hours, and the update was corrected almost immediately once the issue was known. In fact, even simpler than the fix AVG released, most computers could be fixed by a simple system restore to the last restore point since the update. It would have literally taken you 5 minutes to fix this. Perhaps instead of asking for free stuff, the next time your computer stops working, you should call support and ask them how to help you fix it, rather than what you can get from them for nothing.

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Misinformed?

In reply to: Macs Aren't Immune To Malware.

Are you SURE you don't get a paycheck from AVG? Sounds like at least your mom does...

"If the software itself "bricked" your computer, then that would be due to a problem on your own computer"..... And how many times have we heard THAT over the years? I've been computing since the days of the 8086, and talked with more tekkie-types than I can count, and one thing has always remained the same...when a software tekkie is stumped, it invariably and instantaneously becomes the "fault of the hardware". We have 5 identical machines, all 5 built at the same time, same hardware, running exactly the same OS. They all ran flawlessly for well over 18 months until one exact moment in time...the instant I and one of my guys simultaneously downloaded and installed the AVG 2011 Update, which instantaneously turned both machines from productive CAD machines into black metal boxes with big blue screens. The other 3 that didn't get the "upgrade" continued to run flawlessly.

It's called cause and effect, Skippy.....no matter how nice of a guy you may be to AVG, their stuff made junk out of two of my very busy machines in a heartbeat. In your defense though, that disease has always been with us, why the first AVG "tech" we called, after muddling around for over an hour asking us to do all sorts of hi-tech stuff like "check the power supply cord" and "subtitute another monitor", came to the same exact conclusion..."it must be your hardware"...It was strikingly clear he was in over his head and wanted only to end the phone call. Of course the disease runs both ways, the hardware guys all tell us it's the software, too.....it's all nothing more than a simple lapse of accountability.

When 40% of your operation is down due to nothing more than downloading and installing an update, the other 110 thousand or million or billion machines that are warm and fuzzy are pretty much irrelevant, can you grasp that idea?

"Also, beyond just looking at "the AV software crashed my computer" you should also consider how the company handled it"....(Wow what a statement!) "This issue was far from un-repairable. AVG released a VERY SIMPLE FIX (caps added by me) within hours, and the update was corrected almost immediately once the issue was known. In fact, even simpler than the fix AVG released, most computers could be fixed by a simple system restore to the last restore point since the update. It would have literally taken you 5 minutes to fix this." (At least on OUR machines, Windows needs to be able to run before System Restore becomes available, but that's just our machines I guess)

We most assuredly considered how this entire debacle was handled, and that is precisely when the decision was made to run like hell from AVG as fast as we can. Im not sure which 5-minute fix YOU know of, but it might have been a good idea to pass that along to AVG... I and my most tech-savvy engineer (much more competent with bricks than I am) spent just a few minutes short of FOUR HOURS on the telephone with AVG's "techs".

There wasn't even the slightest semblence of a plan, a solution, or even an inkling that AVG even understood what was causing the problem. We sat there trying a dozen or more different things, every one literally being made up as they went along by at least three different people on the other end of the line, all very obviously grasping at straws and scratching their heads. You could hear them in the background asking each other "why didn't THAT work"? and literally arguing amongst themselves in raised voices over what to try next. Both of us were shaking our heads and if it hadn't been such a serious issue at hand, it would have been downright funny...

At about the 3-1/2 hour mark, I was just about ready to give up on the whole thing and send the idled engineer home, because it was dreadfully clear that the people that were "helping us" had simply no idea what the problem was or how to begin to address it. And sure enough, about 20 minutes later I started to hear the infamous "tell them it's a hardware issue" surface in the background discussion, and I just about hung up when I heard that grumbling start. Suddenly, one of the dice rolls being made finally allowed Windows to boot on both machines. At which point my guy begged me to end the call "before they destroy what we have left", and I trusted him and said "thankyoubye". We then did a SysRestore and uninstalled everything AVG (which didn't even work properly, we had to go out and use a third-party AVG cleaner to get most of it and finally delete the rest. What an experience....

Your comment about AVG's fixing the problem they created "at no cost to us" almost enrages me...this was hardly a 5-minute deal and in no way even remotely resembled a professional tech support experience, and the time alone we spent while AVG fumbled around in the dark cost me almost $1400.00 in direct lost dollars. It is precisely this underplaying of the gravity of trashing computers, AVG calling the incident a "misunderstanding" or an "inconvenience" that earned them my bitterness. Maybe to a Facebook junkie or a gamer, a few hours away from the wonder world is tolerable, I don't know, but for those of us earning our bacon with these boxes uptime is money, pure and simple.

"Going to a vendor that this has not happened to yet is probably not the right answer"...Are you SURE you don't work for AVG???? We'll take our chances there...reading back you'll see we have been there done that with just about every AV solution out there, and uninstalled all of them for a myriad of reasons. Yep, we had problems with all of them, some really bad, but in over a decade, none of the others ever totally locked up multiple machines for us like AVG did. And none of them ever left us dead in the water or put us through a 4-hour fishing expedition like AVG did. No thanks...hose me once, shame on you, hose me twice, shame on me....

"Perhaps instead of asking for free stuff, the next time your computer stops working, you should call support and ask them how to help you fix it, rather than what you can get from them for nothing.."

Excuse me? I am MOST familiar with AVG's "tech support", the first time I called, as long as the machine was plugged in and the monitor worked, it couldn't have been an AVG problem. The second call was the real example of AVG's "tech support" prowess..3-4 people screaming at each other in the background wasting over $4 a minute of my company's time while they used the shotgun approach...try everything, something might work. I hope you're a better "IT professional" than those we just had messing about with our machines.

Oh, and now in your eyes I was WAY out of line asking for "free stuff"?? One thing I learned a long long time ago is the impulse buying of ANY software based on splashy internet web pages and the writer's claims of superiority gets you nothing but broke. I've got a stack of floppies, CD's, and software invoices that would pay for a nice vacation where there are no computers, all bought because I believed what I read, and all collecting dust. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we evaluate BEFORE we buy anything anymore, but you need to take a look... EVERYONE out there has the "best there is". Your insinuation that we freeload is not well taken...don't know if YOU'RE independently wealthy, but the only time I'll get the Amex card out anymore is when I'm sure that the performance matches the claims, and I can tell you from experience that the internet is one place that idea hasn't yet taken hold.

AVG had the audacity to send me a form letter about the "misunderstanding" and recommending I immediately forget everything I'd just been through, and buy their 2011 Upgrade (the "fixed" version), for every machine I own. My reply was that before I would even entertain having AVG on my business machines again, I wanted to see the repaired full version operating as it should for an evaluation period. Call me a freeloader if you want, but I DID call their "tech support" and some $1400.00 later, popping for 5 licenses on simply the assurance that AVG was "sorry for my "inconvenience" in this "misunderstanding" just was not going to happen. If AVG was so sure that I'd simply love their product, they'd have no problem providing a trial period to verify that they got it right. I offered to subsequently pay for the trial copy if it didn't destroy our machines again, as well as purchase 4 more, and that's what it would have taken to earn back my trust after the Three Stooges act that had already taken place. But, no, that's "not possible", which led me to evaluate Avast, who just today received our Amex payment for 5 licenses.

Oh, and so sorry I "misused" the term "brick", you see, I'm not a tekkie, and I don't speak tekkie-ese very well. But a machine that won't boot past the BIOS has just about the same value as the big red bricks we all have as paperweights on our desks, so we all understood perfectly what "bricking" was, well at least to us lesser life forms anyway...

Stephan

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-_-

In reply to: Macs Aren't Immune To Malware.

I wish I got a paycheck from AVG, then I wouldn't be struggling to pay off student loans. But I am just the owner of a small IT consulting business. My mom barely knows how to use a computer. My only connection to AVG is I volunteer my time to help people who post on their page.

Perhaps when you hear something from a number of experts that know vastly more about the subject than you do, you should listen instead of ignoring their advice? I'm not "grabbing at straws" nor am I trying to come up with some obscure answer. I already stated that I know exactly what crashed your computer. It was a bad software update. That's what crashed everyone else's computer who posted here, and it's what crashed your computer as well. I never suggested it was your hardware, that wouldn't make any sense at all.

The reason I say it's your computer's fault though, is simple troubleshooting logic. Try to follow me here. You say the software itself crashed your computer, but I have personally installed the software on hundreds of computers, use it on my own, assisted thousands of people who use the software, and never once has installing the software just arbitrarily crashed the computer for any of the thousands of people I have helped either over the Facebook page or in person, I can safely say there is not a bug in the software that will crash every computer that the software is installed on. Otherwise, as many people who use the software as I interact with on a daily basis, I would know about it.

If simply installing the software crashes 2 computers out of 110 million, do you think it sounds more like the software crashes computers, or those two computers had a pre-existing problem that kept AVG from working correctly? Let me spell it out for you, the correct answer is option B if you want to keep your job as an IT consultant and not lose your clients because you're incompetent. Wink

But like I said, I don't even think it was that in this case. This was simply not caused by the software itself. You installed the upgrade for AVG 2011, and what you don't realize is that it will install the latest update immediately after being installed. It wasn't the software, you got hit with the same bad update as everyone else did right after you installed your software. To you it may seem like it was the software's fault, but to someone who knows more than you do about how the software works it's obvious that you got hit with the bad update right after installing.(this is where that listening to experts instead of dismissing their knowledge as bs comes in again, same reason I wouldn't try to give you advice about what you do, because I'm not an expert at that, and that I would listen to you if you gave me advice, because you probably are...) You see, the definition sets are different for AVG 9 and AVG 2011. That's why the other machines didn't get it, they didn't get the bad update because it was only sent to the latest version of the software.

Also, I'm not a "hardware guy." I'm not some incompetent guy who is only qualified to install or troubleshoot hardware. I have 5 years of formal education in the IT field, another 6 years of experience. I can administrate Windows and Linux servers, large networks, write programs, troubleshoot computers, web design, and design complex technology solutions for businesses. I've done everything from running cable for a network to being flown to the other side of the world and being kept in a 4 star hotel to meet with senior executives. You don't get that when you don't know what you're doing. Wink

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset, I'm not saying the issue didn't cause your business some grief and lost hours, and I'm not even saying you should stick with AVG. You use whatever software you like, it's your business. I'm just trying to explain to you the true nature of the issue, so you understand what happened to your computers. I understand that from a "my computer is crashed and I need it" standpoint, the other 110 million computers that this doesn't happen to are irrelevant. But from a troubleshooting the issue to get to the bottom of the problem standpoint, my prospective, they're very important. If the software itself doesn't crash the other 110 million computers, and a definitions update does crash thousands of computers, right around the same time your computer crashes using the same software, which answer makes more sense? Mine, based of knowledge of how the software worked, that you installed the update whether you knew it or not (all definitions updates require no interaction from you anyway, you get 3-5 a day and never notice them) and it did the same thing that the update did to everyone else? Or yours, that using the same installation file and same software as everyone else who has ever installed AVG 2011 used, it arbitrarily crashed your computer for no good reason, even though it did not do this to any of the other 110 million computers that installed the same software?

Who do you think knows more about the issue? The guy who was selected to beta test the software before it was released, has installed it or helped someone install it and troubleshoot it thousands of times, and volunteered hours of his time helping people get their computers back in working order after the bad update, and helped fix the same issue you're describing hundreds of times? Or you and your most tech savvy engineer, who was apparently not tech savvy enough to try a simple system restore, which would work fine because it would repair the damage done to your OS, and since the bad update was pulled immediately, once it was working again it would not happen again.

And It is indeed just your machines which need to boot to run system restore. You can run it from the recovery console for Windows XP (http://www.icompute.info/System_restore_from_xp_cd.htm), which you don't have to be able to boot the OS to use, and from the installation disk for Vista or Windows 7 (http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/using-windows-vista-system-restore/). Go ahead and check out the links if you don't think I know what I'm talking about. Wink

My my what special computers you have. Software that works on 110 million other PCs crash yours, and they also can't use system restore without being able to boot. Think about what type of tool system restore is, would it really even be worth including in the software if it couldn't be used without booting the OS? Half the problems System Restore will fix are problems that are preventing you from booting into the OS. -_- If that's not proof enough for you that I know more about what we're talking about than you or your engineers do, then I don't know what is.

Perhaps you "trusted him" (your engineer) a little too much in matters he didn't understand? You could have saved yourself those hours of work, frustration, and lost production if he had just known that System Restore could be used without booting the computer. I mean, I'm not even exaggerating at all, I helped people fix this on hundreds of computers. Five minutes hands on time to boot into recovery console from an XP, Vista, or 7 CD and run system restore. Maybe another 15 minutes for system restore to complete and your computer to restart and boot into Windows. Problem solved. It honest to God really was as simple as that.

About the misuse of the term "bricking." I didn't mean to imply you are an idiot or "lesser lifeform." It was quite clear to me you didn't understand the term you were using. I just wanted to let you know because I think that anytime we include a word in our vocabulary, we should understand what it means. Kinda like those people who say things are ironic that are not, because they don't really understand the meaning of irony. It makes you look less intelligent when you don't understand the meaning of the words you use, even if you are intelligent. If I did it I would want someone to tell me so I didn't keep doing it...

As a man who makes a living off the need for a business having 100% uptime, I understand quite well the necessity to keep those machines running. Now, I'm about to tell you something which may "enrage" you once again, but I hope once you calm down, you'll come back, read it again, and take it to heart, because I'm about to give you some free advice that will keep this from ever happening to your business again.

First of all, I don't think AVG is to blame for your terrible experience here, I think a lot of the fault lies in your own business processes. I'm not trying to insult you or transfer blame, just hear me out. You talked about how AVG "didn't have any plan" to deal with this. What you didn't realize, is that you didn't either. Let's look at a few facts here.

This incident cost you:
-10 hours production time
-An estimated $1400.00
-A couple of hours on the phone with tech support you'll never get back
-Great frustration and the need to purchase a new AV software on top of all those expenses.

Would you say I'm correct here so far? That's a lot of loss for any small business at one time. Well, if you had a few simple, easy to prepare resources at hand, it would have cost you any of that.

1) A disaster recovery plan. You need to have a plan for what your business will do in the event you lose a couple of production machines. It could be having an image of a working production machine imaged to the hard drive of a spare computer in a closet that you put online in order to keep up with production demands. That's what I would recommend. That way you're not losing money while you're fixing the problem with the downed computer.

2) When installing any new software, or updating them, try it out on a test (non-production) machine first. It could be your spare PC that you imaged from one of your production machines. Make sure the latest version, or update doesn't cause problems for you. Honestly, in any production environment I would expect software to be tested before being installed on a production machine. That alone would have prevented this entire problem for you.

3) Maintain backups. If you had properly maintained backups and images of the hard drives of your production machines you could have simply installed the latest backup or re-imaged the hard drive in order to get the computer booting just as it was before right away, without having to fool with troubleshooting or system restore. I would suggest keeping drive images, since it's basically an exact copy of the hard drive at the moment you take the image, and you can copy it back (called imaging the disk) and the computer will be in the exact condition it was in when you made the image. That would be ideal when it comes to a production environment, rather than wasting time and money troubleshooting software issues.

4) Have a knowledgeable IT consultant on call. Your first action was to go to AVG support. I can't vouch for how competent or incompetent they are, because I've only ever dealt with them once, and that was to change details on a license, which anyone who works there should be able to do, they did a fine job helping me with that. I don't need to call support because I know to take measures to ensure the business is not harmed by issues like this, and if it is, I can get things working again for them much faster than someone can over the phone. Even as knowledgeable as I am I hate to troubleshoot over the phone, because it can be hard to identify the issue and try steps to fix it, because you're relying not only on your own knowledge and expertise, but the ability of the person you're speaking with to understand what you're saying and be able to perform the steps. I know it can be tempting for a small business to rely on free vendor tech support and a guy who doesn't really do IT, but kinda knows computers and can figure it out eventually. Seems like it saves you money over having a consultant come out and fix it. But you see where that got you this time. Your guy didn't even know he could run system restore from the Windows installation CD, that lack of very basic knowledge in and of itself was the difference between 5-20 minutes of lost production time, and 10 hours and $1400.00. See what I mean? I recommend you find a competent IT consultant in your area who can support your business. And I also recommend you ask him to help you to implement the processes I recommended here, so this doesn't happen to you again. Also, if you had a competent consultant, they could have explained what the real issue was to you, so you would have understood there was no reason to switch software, that the problem was fixed, and that with your new business processes in place, it couldn't happen again, even if AVG made another mistake. So you wouldn't have had to switch vendors and spend even more money on top of all your losses.

So, you wanted something free for your trouble, right? Well, I would usually charge a couple thousands dollars to come out and give that advice and help implement it. So, there you go, that's worth more than the licenses you wanted. Best of luck with Avast! I help out on their Facebook page as well, they seem to have decent software. But just a friendly warning, someday, without fail, they will crash your computer. So take that advice I gave you seriously, it will save you a lot of headaches and money in the future. Wink

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with AVG, but as I pointed out, when it comes to a production environment, there are certain resources and procedures you should have in place to deal with issues like this. The fact that your business lacks them is no one's fault but your own. You wanted to get out of the "just deal with it" mentality, right? If you have the right processes in place, you won't have to "just deal with it," you'll be prepared for it, and you won't have to rely on anyone else to keep your production going, you can rely on yourself.

I don't know where you're located, but let me know if you're interested and I could help you implement these strategies and processes for your business. It may get kinda pricey if you're far away from me though, so you wouldn't want to have to fly me out every time there's a problem, that would get too costly, I would recommend you have an area consultant for day to day issues, but if you want someone who knows what they're doing to help you get those suggestions in place, I'd be happy to help you. Just let me know.

Collapse -
Learn to live with it???

In reply to: Learn to live with it???

If you interpret anything I've said as meaning "it's reasonable and totally OK for someone to brick YOUR machines this way" then you have an abysmal understanding of the written word.

Most people, including me, are not happy when their machines are hosed by software vendors' mistakes, but most people, including me, accept that they're MISTAKES ... and everyone makes them.

Learn to live with it!

Collapse -
AVG is doing it again

In reply to: Learn to live with it???

I just updated by AVG free to build 1375 and it crashes both my Windows 7 machines and the people that answer AVG's help line are no help at all.

I am done with AVG and I installed Norton from Comcast.

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