lol i feel like i should of paid you for your help Wink, it does seem to be the pre set eq's that are the problem, I set it to the user one and added a little bass, sounds much better *phew* i was a bit worried there, it does seem that my creative zen micro had better sound quality tho, this is because i never had any problems with the sound quality, but of course it had way to many problems with syncing with napster to go, i suppose the trade was worth it tho, i went up from 5 gigs to 10 "which isn't enough either ><"

thx again
Tim