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General discussion

Are you loving or hating Windows 10? Need your feedback

Sep 16, 2016 4:20PM PDT

I'm one of the people who missed the deadline for the free upgrade to Windows 10. Long story short, I procrastinated and was traveling overseas on the expiration date and forgot all about it. Of course, no one to blame but myself. I was planning to wipe my desktop clean and start fresh with Windows 8.1 again, but since I was going through that process, I figured I might as well move on to Windows 10. However, before I go download and pay for it, I'd like to get your opinion on it since many people have been using it for quite some time. Do you love or hate it or are you somewhere in between? Any reason not to upgrade to it? If I do get Windows 10, do you recommend that I do a clean install from scratch, or should I install it directly over Windows 8.1? My system hardware requirements are more than capable of handling 10, and my software programs are fairly current so I'm not worried about the incompatibilities. Thank you for your feedback.

--Submitted by Peter M.

Discussion is locked

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small chunks?
Sep 23, 2016 11:16PM PDT

Okay, ket us in on the secret: How do you install Windows 10 a small chunk at a time?

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Small Chunks
Sep 23, 2016 11:42PM PDT

I'm wasn't referring to the installation, but to the learning curve.
Pick an area of interest, say keyboard commands. Try a few of them to see what they do. Play with them for a day or so, then try a few more.
If you get bored with keyboard commands, try seeing what new features in the Edge browser might appeal to you. Hit the F1 function key and pick an area that might be of interest, like pinning an app to the taskbar. Once you start getting familiar with the new features (or even some of the old ones that you didn't know existed!) you will feel a lot more comfortable with the OS.

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I'd still prefer ...
Sep 24, 2016 5:35AM PDT

... installing it one problem at a time ...

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Why have to learn W10 if you can modify W10 to work like W7?
Sep 23, 2016 11:36PM PDT

My friends who have made the switch hate Edge. What I didn't like about Windows 7 was the new look; I managed to get it to look like Windows XP and then I got along with it. So now I hear you can make Windows 10 look like Windows 7, but why didn't MS make that the default, and let new users change to the fancier interfaces when they were ready for it? There was nothing wrong with the Windows XP interface (for those without touch-screens), and neither is Windows 7 which interfaces like XP, too. It would have been much better, IMHO, to make the W10 default to W7, and let new users gradually work into the "new improved" version when they were ready for it.

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Get used to it
Sep 24, 2016 10:06AM PDT

As time goes by new hardware will not run Windows 7, so hang on to your present PC as soon there won't be any new PCs with Windows 7. Also, generally speaking you are in the small minority. Personal taste I guess.

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W10 is a work in progress
Sep 16, 2016 6:36PM PDT

Personally I would wait for MS to work things out a lot better. I upgraded a laptop from W7 Pro to W10 Pro and am at ver 1511 and I will try to keep it there for awhile since there are many who are having problems with ver 1607.
As my title suggests, W10 is still in progress and from what I have seen on my laptop, I'm glad I waited instead of upgrading the rest of my computers.
Since you have 8.1 chances are that you should go for it as W10 is probably better but I will be keeping my other computers at W7 until 2020.
Don't get me wrong, W10 is ok but I don't see anything that convinces me that it is "Better" ( at least so far ).
Good Luck

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Welllllll...
Sep 17, 2016 4:56AM PDT

Everything in the whole information processing world is a "work in progress." There is not a single entity in that sphere, whether hardware, software, or anything else, that is not constantly undergoing improvement.

If you don't keep up, you fall behind.

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Glad you're Happy
Sep 17, 2016 8:14AM PDT

I'm just tickled pink that you and others are happy with an OS that was probably released too early and is way to intrusive for my liking.
The privacy issues alone make me leery. By next year a message will come across the screen saying that you need to change your underwear and we have the perfect place for you to buy them. Just press the yes or no button since we already have copies of your Birth Certificate, credit cards, and tax forms and BTW we are going to force an upgrade on you so you can waste a day ( or more ) trying to figure out what we did to your computer. Cool

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Then again
Sep 23, 2016 9:38PM PDT

Operating systems are supposed to let you do your work, and othewise stay out of the way. I'm much more impressed by great sophisitcated software that lets me do great things, than by a silly operating system. The OS is supposed to be the basic framework, not the end product - unless one designs Operating systems. Windows 10 was a lot better than W8, which the interface was constantly in the way. Problem is, the unreliability of the update process makes for the main tasking being just to get the computer to work.

Again.

So I'm back on W7, which allows mt to do the work without breakdowns.

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Work in Progress?
Sep 23, 2016 11:29PM PDT

"Progress" as in "getting better?"

Almost 50 years in IT - more than half as a software developer - tell me differently ...

We used to joke when customers asked what were the new features of the next version of our software: "New bugs." - And that is not that far fetched.

But there is also this: From time to time I get the impression that vendors push down restrictions to our systems that may be in their interest but certainly aren't in ours.

And we've all been watching what happened with Adobe's Flash, when "upgrades" were released in rapid succession to fix vulnerabilities - only to introduce new ones (and, in some cases, worse ones ...) and that is just one example that comes to mind.

No, I have major misgivings against the unchecked stream of "improvements" being forced upon us. I prefer the old style of progress, where you installed a version of your software and learned to understand it really well; then from time to time you installed a fixpack or a new version, which you could test thoroughly and roll back if it didn't improve things.

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Windows 7 - perfect, if you don't switch to a touch-screen
Sep 24, 2016 10:57AM PDT

Exactly why I still love Windows 7 on my desktop PC. It is still on 'Service Pack 1' after seven years, and not a single crash. After a bi-weekly cleaning of the registry it always starts very fast, and multitasks a 'large bunch' of my favorite apps on 6 GB RAM without choking. I recently got a new hard disk, after some indications the original was near the end of its life, but W7 is running like a champ.

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W10 a failure in progress
Sep 17, 2016 7:35AM PDT

Latest update to 1610 and my laptop was dead for a day and a half as updates went into the spinning circle of death. In fact trying to use it again today and after several stops and stutters I shut it off and I'm using my Win 7 desktop.

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Down a day and a half: Old machine?
Sep 27, 2016 5:11AM PDT

I have a computer I built myself for gaming, but it is still 9 years old. My upgrade (upgrading W10 to new version, not to W10) took roughly 4 hours, and part of that was a restart after my Norton antivirus update required a restart. After the upgrade some of the glitches I had before have disappeared, and it runs with less processor demand. I am happy.

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Don't need a work in progress
Sep 23, 2016 9:33PM PDT

If they cannot put out an OS that has really good uptime, I don't need that. It isn't my job to be a beta tester.

My OSX computer just works. My Linux boxes just work. And my Windows 7 installs hahave similar 100 percent uptime. I ditched Windows 8X, and was happy with W10 operation wise, but it is really unreliable. No one should have a working computer one day, then an update, and it's messed up. So I ditched W10, and am much happier for it.

W10 is the Lucas Electrics version of Operating systems (anyone get the British Sports car reference?

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Lucas
Sep 23, 2016 11:00PM PDT

I still have my carb tuning kit from my 1964 MG Midget. Trying to find a way to use to fine tune my Windows 10 computer.

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Nothing in Win10 ...
Sep 27, 2016 5:58AM PDT

... anywhere near as elegant as the carb of the '64 Midget ... so forget it!

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Windows 10 saved my system -
Sep 16, 2016 7:26PM PDT

I deleted my free upgrade copy of windows ten from my computer when I performed a HP restore back to the original factory settings - Thinking it was going to be re installed in my windows updates , I was vastly shocked to see windows updates only updated my computer back to the SP 1 version of windows 7 and to IE 8 which is a useless browser at this point - So I downloaded a copy of Opera and after fearing I was going to have to throw my computer away or go out and buy a copy of Windows 10 , I was glad to see Microsoft has made Windows 10 available to re download for such situations through the Media Creation Tool that they provide online ! Thanks Microsoft ! - Windows 10 Rocks and thanks for giving us all some quality longevity on these older systems ! My computer runs great on Windows 10 and is probably around ten years old -

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I call that the "good for 10" license.
Sep 16, 2016 8:21PM PDT

Rather than having to keep your license key somewhere, this is much easier.

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Meh.
Sep 16, 2016 8:02PM PDT

Windows 10 is an operating system. Windows 7 is an operating system. Even the lamentable Windows 8/8.1 and Vista are operating systems. Does an operating system help or hinder you getting done what you need to do? Is the operating system reliable? Does it offer some way for you to protect your privacy?

So... Windows 10 does not contain any amazing features, just some new odds and ends. If you don't like the way the desktop works, download and install Classic Shell to make it look like Win 7 or even XP. I use it on one of my laptops, and plain vanilla Win 10 on the other. Windows 10 is part of the long-time erosion of our privacy by Microsoft, which wants you to agree to provide it with a lot of information about yourself and how you use the computer. In this respect, Windows 10 builds on its predecessors, becoming ever more intrusive if you let it. When I install Windows 10, I routinely turn off all the Custom Settings, eschewing the quick click of Express Settings which allow for the maximum Microsoft surveillance of a user's activities.

The Anniversary Update of Win 10 breaks a couple of useful features. I routinely install the very nice CoreTemp to display CPU operating temperatures (one per core) on the taskbar. With earlier Win 10, this requires a little bit of customization. With Anniversary 10, the ability to customize the taskbar notifications is either missing or well hidden. If your laptop overheats because you have a houseful of cats and lots of dust and dirt, you want to know. Coretemp lets you know.

So after over a year of use (No, I did not subject myself to the pain and agony of the pre-release builds), Meh. Not even an exclamation point.

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Update problems are common
Sep 23, 2016 8:07PM PDT

Now that I have upgraded a number of machines to Windows 10 there is no way I will install the anniversary update for at least six months. I really do not need the sorts of aggravation that might come with the upgrade. Routine updates can break things. The anniversary update is likely a service pack or a dot version upgrade. In any event, I cannot see doing it right away.

Not only can major updates break things, Microsoft likes to tamper with well-established features, leaving users scratching their heads how anyone could be so stupid. I guess they feel they know better than their users how computers should be used.

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Fixing what "Ain't Broke" seems to be norm in the OS world!
Sep 24, 2016 6:19AM PDT

Your statement about head shaking is spot on. This upgrade and the fixes truly do go in the realm of *** and NOT intuitive as Win-7. I don't resist change but this is one change I wish I had resisted. Maybe I would be happier in I had a clean install because the "free" download/upgrade is a disappointment as far as having a feel of commonsense.

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Update problems are common
Sep 25, 2016 6:33AM PDT

My laptop update to 1607 took multiple days with a useless laptop. It kept going into the Spinning Circle Of Death. It ignored holding down the power button and pulling out the battery was the only way to get it back to speaking. Each time the actual update showed progress of an additional 15%. Leaving it alone for 12 hours and still the spinning circle of death. Eventually it came up and said "Updates were done" but it was slow. Powering off and back on and it went back into updates again and after and hour of the SCOD I held down the power button and after two minutes it shut down and on restart it went back into SCOD. After another 8 hours of SCOD I pulled the battery then restarted it and it said "Updates were installed". Next start up and it now said it was fixing disk errors. The trouble was as soon as it got to 100% it stopped working again and after 2 hours stuck pulling the battery was again the only fix. At the 4th day of starting it up it stopped messing up but then told me Norton Internet Security was incompatable with Win 10 and I had to use Windows Defender instead. I went to the Norton web site and it said Windows needed two patch updates which it initiated. Win 10 then went back into the SCOD for 4 hours until I pulled the battery again. It came up and Norton works fine and the system "appears" to be stable. Now before I did the updates Norton said the system was clean , Windows Defender said the system was clean and Malewarebytes said the system was clean. Afterwards they also said it was clean. Thankfully I have several other desktops that are on Win 7 , Unbuntu and Linux Mint so I still had access to do anything I needed to do.

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Responding to your questions:
Sep 27, 2016 6:06AM PDT

"Does an operating system help or hinder you getting done what you need to do?"
Yes, some do the one and some do the other, and therin lies the difference. And that is 90% of what is being discussed here so hotly. For the most part it seems to me that a lot of the people that like it have some experience doing simple things, and most of those who don't like it are either people with very little experience or those with a lot of it. If your experience is limited you tend to struggle with problems more, and if you can do everything blind in all versions from Win2000 to Win7 then you will be frustrated by deviations, such as Win8.x or Win10.
And, of course, if Win 8.x is your only prior experience then you probably did make a big step forward by upgrading to Win10. On the other hand, if you are well connected in the Microsoft network and have lots of time to read all the material on the new features you probably know all the secrets already.

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Download Win 10, do not pay for it, and see what happens
Sep 16, 2016 8:06PM PDT

Download Win 10, do not pay for it, and see what happens when you activate it. Upgrade installs are hit-or-miss. Sometimes wildly successful and all your old apps run perfectly. Sometimes a brick of a computer that won't run Win 10, and may not roll back. Odds of a succesful upgrade are better than 50-50. How much better, I do not know.

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Used the free upgrade on 5 home machines
Sep 16, 2016 8:19PM PDT

All 5 are now Win 10 Home, all went smoothly, trouble free, work well. I'm not a power user, but reasonably knowledgeable and have used Windows since 3.1. Win 10 has been the best so far although I liked 7, now not as secure, and presumably this will be the only one after some years, so 'resistance is futile' probably applies. I figured it was better to get on board early, figure out what problems might need to be solved, but so far haven't found a ton. Edge is nowhere near full browser ready, but I use Chrome mostly so haven't cared. I don't use Cortana (resource hog, they say) and I'm fine without it. I don't game or do much video editing so can't comment on those. I haven't run into anything that won't run or peripheral problems, though I know others have - mine are reasonably up to date and the vendors have drivers. From what I've run into the positive users seem to outnumber the negatives quite significantly and by now a great many people have switched so if it was really bad for many of them we'd be hearing a ton about it. Sorry for those who've had bad trouble. I'm not one.

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Power user
Sep 17, 2016 7:45AM PDT

If you are not running plain vanilla systems then you will run into troubles. I to have multiple computers and in fact use multiple operating systems via SATA selectable drives. Win 10 has been a total mess. I just lost my laptop for a day and a half with the spinning circle of death Win 10 updates. An upgrade on my Win 7 desktop to Win 10 and I lost most of my devices but it worked fine when I rebooted with the other operating systems. I went back to Win 7. There is a lot of people out there that don't want Win 10 at all or have had real bad luck with the upgrades. You will see positive users here but the last few times they asked about Win 10 the pages were filled with those of us that had nothing but troubles. Many of us gave up posting on Win 10 because we keep hearing uses say "well you have to buy and get the latest technology". No I don't because what I use functions fine. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

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It's not just an operating system, friends
Sep 16, 2016 8:48PM PDT

I kind of got drafted into Windows 10. My customer upgraded their mission-critical software and it would not run on my Win7 device. But that was okay, because Win10 wouldn't load on my device either. It's a homebrew desktop with some storage modifications that apparently threw the free upgrade for a loop. Ditto the ISO download. Ditto the Media Maker tool. All 100% snafu.

With deadlines looming, I got a new SSD C: drive, installed Win7 on it, and finally got THAT to upgrade through the original Windows Update path. Then all I had to do was load and test all my mission-critical software and tools. Not the way I expected to spend July.

Some other software, critical for another job, would not run. Win10 didn't relate to my network and I still haven't gotten it back in working order, save for the internet connection and one printer. The customer-essential mission-critical software did load and test clean. Just before the customer called and cancelled the job.

Aside from the installation hassles, which apparently were common with anybody with a non-mainstream PC, Win10 so far has performed well. It still has problems with my printer connection and, of course, the last update broke the web camera, also typical. If this were all, I'd call it about on par with Windows 7 -- not notably slower and for some things, faster.

But that's not all. Plainly Microsoft intends Win10 to be the foot in the door for a total PC experience including Office 365, Azure for cloud storage and backup, and of course Cortana, your friendly robot-voiced built-in software spy. The information being collected on my use of my machine rolls to Richmond to help them refine their marketing push. I'm very much aware that I am not merely using a small subset of the total package that is Win10, but that most of it is meant to stay out of reach, out of touch, and feed somebody else's development plan for what they think I should be doing with my own box. So it's intrusive even when it doesn't try to substitute its generic "apps" for my mission-critical software or plead like a robotic Mata Hari for more access to my system, my work, the sites I go to, what I download and upload, and to where. A good deal of the espionage is going on behind the scenes. I'm afraid to document all this and take it back to counsel; given my customer's constraints and my own security policies they'll likely tell me I should downcheck the lot of it. I have good reasons for not using cloud storage but I can't tell if I'm already doing so thanks to what Win10 is doing behind the scenes.

Remember when we stopped being able to service our own cars because there were Torxed plastic covers over everything and you had to take the smallest problem to the dealership? That's what Windows 10 is doing to my machine. From reporting on my usage to unannounced and unstoppable upgrades, Windows 10 acts as if it's the boss and I'm just the lowly operator. And Richmond plainly intends to increase its penetration and control of desktops, or they wouldn't be sending fake 'auditors' to report how much you're going to have to pay to 'upgrade' your system to something Microsoft likes. This isn't an operating system. It's more like an attack.

If Windows 10 were only an operating system, I'd call it okay. But it's a marketing and sales tool of Microsoft aiming to reduce me to the part-time user of data they consider theirs since their software touches it, and the aim is to turn all PCs into thin clients with Microsoft running the show remotely while sending you an invoice every month for licensing and usage fees. So on that score, it's a business and security nightmare just begging for a Congressional probe. I smell the putrid stench of mercantilism here -- Windows 10 is less about improvements in the product and more about making you pay more for what used to be free, or even your own. It's an octopus with a time bomb in it in every Windows machine in the world.

Microsoft™. Where do you think YOU'RE going?®

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Win 10 troubles
Sep 17, 2016 7:56AM PDT

One of the troubles I found in doing one bad failure at Win 10 update and another regreted update of a laptop to Win 10 I found that Win 10 does not have a Driver library like previous versions and the end result is "If a driver is not installed for a device that is compatable with both the device and Win 10 then it does not report an error. Instead Win 10 reads the device ID code instead but does nothing else. You need to match your driver to that code in order to generate alarms. In my cases I have an HP Photosmart 1000 that still works great. An upgrade from Win XP to Win 7 and all I had to do was put in the driver for a different HP printer and it works fine. It was reported as an unknown device that needed a driver. In Win 10 the printer did not work at all and was not reported as an error. I found that HP would not write a driver for Win so I was out of luck. In the upgrade of my desktop I lost my sound . SCSI card , USB bus , Printer and Nvidia video control but there was zero errors or alarms. Reverting back to Win 7 I got them back.

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So true.
Sep 17, 2016 11:34AM PDT

Windows 10 gives a new meaning to the word "Windows". I installed W10 since the release from W7. I also use a separate network hub running Linux that acts like a firewall but also monitors the information going and coming from other systems on my network. Windows 7 had a fraction of traffic compared to Windows 10. It increased 9 times in data sent and received. Alot of monitors are watching and sending god knows what to Richmond. I reverted back to Windows 7 and have not looked at Windows 10 since. Until I know what is being sent you better watch what you do if using Windows 10. Remember that what the old saying "If your doing nothing wrong then what do you have to worry about". Well what if you are doing something wrong and don't know it is wrong. Just because it is easer does not mean it is better.

As for issues I had with Windows 10. The system keeps updating my USB drivers and the external USB 3.0 hard drive won't register. The AMD video drivers are also not working correctly so I haft to revert back to the older ones. If you change your privacy settings and when there is another update they revert back to default setting and Windows 10 is always updating. Some users might not have issues with what is being sent back and forth to Microsoft but in this day and age our privacy is melting away day by day. An operation system should not be a spy for corporation or governments, it should be for the user to make and run programs that help make our lives better.

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Why the network traffic with Windows 10?
Sep 17, 2016 11:56AM PDT

Why all this network traffic with Windows 10? If you click "Express Settings", you give Microsoft permission to collect as much as they want about you and your activities. Microsoft's surveillance (Microsoft fanboys hate it when I use this word) is the cause of all the network traffic, for which, you, of course, are paying. Go back and shut off each and every one of these options and net traffic will diminish, not to zero, but a lot lower. The most egregious of these settings is the agreement (or disagreement!!!) to allow your computer to distribute Windows 10 software to other computers, much the way BitTorrent operates. When a computer is distributing Win 10 software, it slows down an internet connection, not to mention needlessly clogging the data pipelines of internet service providers.