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General discussion

Are you dumping Mercury in the trash?

Jul 12, 2007 2:56PM PDT

Highly efficient fluorescent light bulbs are widely touted as environmentally friendly, but they have created a recycling headache for the Environmental Protection Agency and local governments.

More often than not, their toxic ingredients simply end up in landfills, where the chemicals can leach into soil and water and poison fish and other wildlife.

The bulbs contain mercury and should not be tossed in the trash as are regular light bulbs.

"They're very efficient, but once they're used up, they become a ticking toxic time bomb," said Leonard Robinson, chief deputy director of the California Department of Toxic Substances Control. "They need to be captured and recycled."
more.........

Discussion is locked

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I've seen reference to this before, and it's true.
Jul 12, 2007 4:24PM PDT

Can't blame it on 'those California tree-huggers' either; it's good science.
Knowledge is power; we need to up our recycling skills.

BTW I trash all pagan gods. (Well, you did capitalize it.)

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(NT) And you just had to cap back. :)
Jul 12, 2007 4:34PM PDT
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Been mentioned here before
Jul 12, 2007 7:51PM PDT

as well they use more energy to produce and need special packaging to protect them from damage. Originally, they also had ceramic bases. They now appear to be a plastic. The ceramic based ones will not degrade or be easy to dispose of.

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Can someone post the link about this myth?
Jul 12, 2007 11:30PM PDT

I'll summarize.

These bulbs create less mercury in the world than your average bulb. How does it do this? To figure it out we look at the fact these bulbs use 1/3 the electrical power to run and that electrical power is mostly from coal fired electrical plants. By cutting 2/3rd's of the use of said electricity the TOTAL AMOUNT of mercury put into the world is less than if you used an incandescent.

I'll let others find reference material about this but this has been debunked a few times.

Bob

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reply to: Can someone post the link....
Jul 13, 2007 3:20AM PDT

While not exactly a "tree hugger", I figure still we should be concerned about putting any amount of the "pagan god" (pun intended) Happy into the open environment. Or, perhaps I should say back into the environment.

According to the EPA
CFLs Responsible for Less Mercury than

Incandescent Light Bulbs
Ironically, CFLs present an opportunity to prevent mercury
from entering our air, where it most affects our health. The
highest source of mercury in our air comes from burning
fossil fuels such as coal, the most common fuel used in the
U.S. to produce electricity. A CFL uses 75% less energy
than an incandescent light bulb and lasts at least 6 times
longer. A power plant will emit 10mg of mercury to produce
the electricity to run an incandescent bulb compared to only
2.4mg of mercury to run a CFL for the same time. See http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/downloads/MercuryInCFLs.pdf
I didn't bother to see if the figures match up exactly, but appear pretty close.

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We can tolerate some mercury
Jul 13, 2007 3:55AM PDT

Our bodies eliminate it very slowly and so, perhaps, a more important consideration is prevent the production of mercury "hot spots" the same as we want to do with other toxins. Toxins in dumping grounds become more concentrated and hazardous to the local environment. As for energy usage, what we don't get to see is how much more energy is required to produce these more complex devices, properly package them, and deal with their disposal. This should not be done in $$$ only but in the loss of value of that energy for other uses. We can't get around the basic laws of thermodynamics using creative marketing.

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What?! No free lunch?! I'll never trust a scientist again.
Jul 14, 2007 2:08PM PDT

Good post about the complexities. The concentration issue is a big problem; some poor kids in Japan could tell you about that- if they could talk. Sad And it wasn't from coal burning (plenty of that in Japan), but criminally careless handling of manufacturing products. Same thing here, without the evil intent. And BTW remember we already throw away many standard fluorescents, each with its Hg load.

Ironically, liquid mercury is not a problem except as potential Hg vapor, which is a problem. Therefore burning coal can't be ignored.

Next Big Thing in lighting is the newer LEDs. Any bad news there, anyone?

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I think it's predictable that LEDs will
Jul 14, 2007 10:05PM PDT

become more common. I have a couple complaints but I suppose these can be worked out. Their light is quite harsh being sort of a single point source. It needs to be softened for some uses. As well, it's "color temperature" needs to made to match what our eyes respond best to for basic background and reading purposes. Incandescents already do a fair job of that and filtered fluorescents do so as well. Another glitch is light output. LEDs, to produce volumes of light, are packaged in arrays. This means multiple pinpoint light sources are needed to properly light a given space or carry a given distance. They also focus and reflect a bit differently when configured in an array. Lastly, LEDs do burn out. An array of LEDs will probably fail little by little. At what point do we toss it when light output isn't adequate for the purpose....and even though the majority of individual LEDs might be working. So, your 100 w bulb slowly becomes a 25 w bulb. I suppose you could just recycle them to different lamps until they were no longer useful. Technology will improve all of these things. My guess anyway.

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I agree with most of your comments,
Jul 15, 2007 1:47PM PDT

although the light temperature doesn't bother me. I especially like the way it illuminates dark corners, in a flashlight. I've already seen units with diffusing lenses which seem not to lower the lumens too much.

I doubt the remaining lamps in an array will be recycled. Low cost dictates machine-made arrays, cast in plastic if not in cement. Like transistors into ICs. In this case, I think (hope?) the life extension will be much greater than that of fluorescent over incandescent. I have an alarm clock that still has all digits useable after 10? 15? I don't know how many years.