Are Windows 8 Convertibles Being Given a Fair Chance?

Like anything new, I read up a little on the subject and then I decide. I read a few articles at PC Computing and asked a friend that recently bought a laptop. Her verdict? Windows 8 is FAST! That's all I needed to know. I recently built a new production machine with 3.2ghz AMD, 8 gigs memory and a solid state drive. It takes me 5 seconds to boot after POST. My XP machine which was only 2 1/2 years old took 5 minutes. If you need a machine to do WORK, Windows 8 is an outstanding choice as long as you don't have driver issues. Programs that took forever to load pop up in a few seconds, even ones I considered very slow like Dreamweaver.

It seems the start screen is a big killer. Well, it isn't! 95% of the time I start my machine I am going to use a browser. Just click on the browser of your choice and that newfangled start screen goes right away. Yes, there may be a little time required to learn the ins and outs of Windows 8, but if it's so fast, it's worth the effort because of the increase in productivity. I don't think I have spent 4 hours learning what I needed.

If there is one thing I hate, it's looking at that hourglass spinning and spinning around. Normally I don't have anything nice to say aboiut M.S., but 8 makes me more productive. This is the OS I have been waiting for. Who cares if the start screen is ugly? Win95 was ugly. Even Win 3.0 was no beauty.

Sorry to nit pick, but in the next to the last line of your article, "by enlarge" should be "by and large." Don't ask me what it means, precisely, but as an English major I couldn't resist zapping you just a bit!

You can't make a SILK PURSE out of SOW'S EAR! I have looked at W8 several times at the MS Store in Scottsdale Arizona, and when I compare what I would have to do on the W8 with what I already do with W7, it does not measure up. I don't care how they dress it up, that is not the issue, Without a W7 type Start Menu, it is a non Starter for me. Do the merchants that decide how these thing work actually take any advice from a W7 user and see how he used it on his machine and how fast you could do things like that. They should have opened up to the Standard W7 Start Menu and then have a app that you could click on that would get you back to the Metro Interface if that was your preference. I run my whole W7 computer from the Task Bar and the Start Menu. I don't have to go looking around to find out where I have to go to accomplish something. Oh well, if they can sufficiently Brainwash the under 30 crowd, they may be able to make it more successful. New Coke anyone or JC Penny under Ron Johnson? Sometimes it helps to consult the customers!!!! In an earlier post on W8, I mentioned that perhaps W8 has attained a STINK and it might require a clean up to make things right.

The new UI has no utility for most users. Even in your description you said you wish you had a touch pad, and that is the real problem. The touch UI does not have add valie for most users, but Windows 8 does not let you ease into it. It is a bad plan poorly executed.

Regarding the original post, in my opinion - and not to focus too much on semantics, I agree with his points, but think he's a little off on the term "convertible". To me, a convertible is a laptop that converts to a tablet. The key here is that it IS an actual laptop. The Yoga is a convertible as is the Lenovo IdeaPad. (I think the Lenovo is a nice option though 13" may be large for the original submitter. I really like the Yoga, but as most, don't like the idea of the keyboard on a dirty or wet table.) I'm not very familiar with the Sony Viao Duo, but I definitely consider the Pro (as I think most do) a tablet with a keyboard. The main differences are the quality of keyboard and expansion ports/drives. The lines are blurring, but I consider a convertible to be a device that can be used like an existing laptop. That is, it will have a larger screen, a full-size or comfortable keyboard; possibly an Ethernet port and maybe a CD/DVD drive. Converting to a tablet creates a device, while larger, can be handled without being top or bottom heavy and awkward to carry or work on your lap. As an IT director/tech, I can find many uses for a convertible "laptop". To the post's point, I think they do have a point. I don't really consider them a new device as convertibles were around long before Windows 8.

I think ajtrek's point may be focused more on tablets with keyboards as the tablet is getting the most criticism. The tablet form-factor along with the 10"-12" screen size and thin body is more useful and convenient than a typical laptop or convertible. Having the keyboard fold over in a cover, a-la the Surface and Duo, you get the convenience of a keyboard/laptop with the mobility of a tablet. But you will likely lose the benefits of DVD drive and Ethernet/extra USB ports that may be needed for some. With Win8, you will get the most with a touchscreen so if you need the additional components, the convertible laptop is a good option - separate of the tablet.

As for Windows 8 in general (what this and most forums end up focusing on), I still think people are missing the boat. I agree whole-heartedly that there are issues and 8.1/9/Blue, etc. is welcome and necessary. Still, most people complaining that they don't want touch, or need the Start menu, or suggest that the OS isn't quick or is problematic are wrong, misinformed, and missing the point. It's not so much about MS doing it right, but that everything else is limited. I love my iOS device and also my Android, but I still need a PC to do everything I need to do. There is no other tablet/convertible/touch device that can do all that Windows can do. Sure, we can all bash MS for their shortcomings, but until Apple or Android can be 100% functional, MS is the only company covering the bases. Beyond that, I think Win8 is actually a nice OS - at least going in the right direction. It's much quicker than WinXP and a bit more efficient than Win7. I've installed it on (6) 5-year old desktops, laptops, etc. and they all booted quicker and ran well. If you consider that you may need a desktop, laptop, and tablet, Win8 is a better option than iOS/OSX for sharing/syncing between those 3 devices. The synergy between multiple devices is actually pretty nice.

Anyway, I agree with the original post that convertibles and/or tablets may not be given a fair chance. People should open their minds a bit more. If you actually try to use Win8 and the start screen without the Start menu, you might like it. My boss came in the other day telling me how he FINALLY figured out how to find the control panels in Win8 by going to the charms bar whenever he wasn't in another program. I asked if he tried typing "cont..." from the Start screen. He said huh? "yeah, just start typing whatever you're looking for". I showed him and now he loves it. Give Win8 and the hardware a chance. I think you'll learn to like it.

As I see it (my preference), when it comes to computing and internet I want 3 devices:

1. A PC to do the real work (I use a desktop with a 37inch screen).

2. A tablet to sit in front of the TV or take overseas.

3. A smartphone with access for daily mobile use.

To me, something that tries to fit in between a PC and a tablet (basically so Microsoft can sell it's failed and dreadful Windows 8 concept) is a pointless wast of time with no value or use.

Don't ask me what I'd use one of these hybrid toys for, I can't think of anything.

The truth is I don't think Microsoft should be given a fair chance on anything because they appear to have always operated on the arrogant assumption they know better than the public what the public wants so they don't research it and inevitably come up with a failure requiring an urgent reassessment. And Windows 8 is no different: "All dressed up and nowhere to go."

I have given MS a faire chance for over a decade, I had enough. They cannot ever get it right. I went to Win 7 and eliminated anything MS from my home, the office is next.

Unfortunately so many advanced features are integrated into new systems that don't make things better. Many so called improvements are included as marketing gimmicks to encourage us to buy the latest products.

Try to find a cell phone today that is as capable and easy to use as a Sony W995, you can't. For hardcore gaming a touchscreen doesn't work, protective cases with built in keypads are a favourite accessory for many who use tablet PC's. Technological development is a must, however it isn't the visionarys but the marketing men who seem to have the control.

I actually did give it a try. Nope, I will not buy it. I've also tried pads, will not buy any of them now. Win9 is absolutely useless on my Acer netbook having tried it.

As you say, I am pigeon-holing the product. When I first saw the ads I thought it was a full-fledged laptop with all the capability of a MacBook Pro or Air, but with touchscreen functionality like an iPad. I thought it would crush both Apple laptop and pad sales. But then I come to find out they've developed it for a lower end market with very little memory and a limited OS so really it is a poor iPad with a built-in keyboard.

If they make the product I suggest with this convertible touchscreen technology then I may walk away from Apple and never look back.

Thx
Ed (Apple user since 1984).

So why not install classic shell if any one is unhappy with the way windos 8 runs will still be 8 no matter how one looks at it alot easier than 8

I am usuing 8 and enjoy it also dual boot to 7 so I can have my choice prefer 8
Have a super day Ellen307

We are talking future here. Get used to the touch screen because it will be the only of the future. Remember Star Trek? The Enterprise was a lot of touch. Beam me up Scotty. I am 79 years old and I like Windows 8. See even I can change. Soon we will not need keyboards. Just voice your words and your pad will type for you. Perhaps you won't even need touch.

I think Microsoft needs to make the tablet interface more of an optional interface for long time Windows users, but the tablet interface an also be useful at times. I had very little real trouble converting to Windows 8 from 7, and now miss some of the tablet apps when I use 7 again. Microsoft is getting a lot of flak for the tablet interface mostly because they pushed it on people without an opt-out.

It's a little of everything ajtrek. Some units are lame and useless, no matter what OS you plug in. Some are really
great. Buying any unit, no matter what, is a "personal preference" situation. What feels good to the person doing
the buying. It's just like speakers, entertainment systems. That being said, let's talk OS's. Win8 is not as user
friendly as they lead you to believe, but on a proper machine, it can be mastered. It just takes time. I, personally,
don't like Win8. I've tried it, used it, and was not overly impressed. However, there are some who swear by it.
When one is ready to drop some bucks on a unit, no matter what it is, it comes down to "does it do what you want
and expect" and "does it fill my needs", both short and long term? When I look at a unit, I have a specific need and
use for it. It has to meet that criteria. Will the OS support what I intend to use it for? (we all have favorite programs, so that is not a hard question) I have many computers, and the OS's run from MSDOS 6.22 through Server 2008.
Each system is setup for a specific use and need. I have even gotten into Linux Mint14 which is pretty darn cool.
(in my job, I work with Linux Red Hat and FreeBSD) (I have even dabbled with Ubuntu as well) I really like Mint.
My son loves his IPad. In fact, he loves it so much, he got one for his wife. He is really happy with it. It works for
him, and does what he wants it to do. The other side of the coin is the fact that every company is trying to find ways to boost sales. (and they are not thinking about the BIG picture) They push new products just for the sake of doing so. (i.e. the Desktop is dead, and you need the Wizbang Finger Pad) (i.e. RS-232 ports are dead, you
need USB 3.0) If it doesn't do what you want, what's the point?
My pet peeve are CPU's. You have got to be really careful with this. For example, i5 vs i7. Yes, the i7 is ultra
fast, but its not totally compatible with stuff. Cores are another "gotcha" as well.
The real bottom line is to know exactly what you're buying it for, check the spec's to be sure of it being
compatible with what you're going to run. Most software will spec out what it should run on. Good luck.

First off as a business owner I have to have return on investment. With 15k in new computers, servers and wiring just in 2007, loaded with windows XP Pro and MS OFFICE the products need to last a little longer than they have. I use a complete 3rd party accounting program that is compatable with 7 Pro and a couple of machines have been upgraded as the other wore out. Problem is that program and win ms 13 and Win 8 are not compatable. I won't be upgrading to windows 8 period. I simply can't until the accounting program folks insist on it. Between paying a $2500 annual fee to keep current on my accounting program and every couple of years having to up grade a window's operating system a small business can go broke dealing with IT issues. That is total Bull **** in my opinion. And my blow back is that I will have to find someone that can build a win 7 pro desk top and buy a simular lap top when the time comes. The major players that I purchased my other equipment from Dell and HP won't get my business. Considering I am only replacing 8 computers and 1 server I am small to others business, but I know bigger business won't jump on win 8 either with those kind of expenditures.

Win 8 does nothing for me. Tell me why I should pay to get it? I personally think the Justice Department needs to sue MS again to make them keep XP PRO AND WIN 7 PRO in place no less than 20 years.

Regards

I like yourself was looking at Tablets/Laptops and didn't like the limits imposed by the 10" screen size etc. of pure tablets. Most people I knew who had tablets were using them as glorified e-readers and picture viewers. I ended up with a Dell xps12 and love having both options. I use it most in tablet mode but when I want a nice keyboard I can just flip the screen and have a laptop. I have also enjoyed the push2 tv feature which allows me to view on my TV anything on the smaller screen without searching for cables. (Not available on RT devices) Two items they need to work on is battery life and weight and the tablets will be obsolete.

I also love Windows8 and can't imagine going back. I took advantage of the early discount and upgraded about 6 computers at work, home, dad (87 years old) for 39 bucks. They all run better and I use only the windows virus etc. with no problems. I love going from desktop, to laptop, to tablet, to phone all with the same OS and synced together.
I downloaded the old start menu opt. for people at work and no body uses it. It is so much easier to just customize your start screen and switch between programs running on the left of the screen.

I vote yes on the convertible vs tablet issue and yes to W8

Good luck.

Thanks, TEAM! -- for reopening this can of worms. I was truly disgusted reading it the first time and now I'm just shaking my head. If I new the direction that computing was going, I'm sure that I could make a buck off it but when I thought MS was coming out with something new that 'young people' would just love, the response was completely the opposite. There was a time when some of us wasted our time trying to defend it but this time I don't see those comments here.

I never give much thought to what the experts say because most of them are on an agenda anyways. I play with the device in the store (like you do) and I ask a billion questions to sales people (who usually know nothing but it's fun to ask them ) and those who are already users of the device before I buy. I rely on the rest of the CNET community to be my product testers (thanks guys and gals) and I value your opinion far beyond that of a professional product review. We all use things for different purposes, so when someone with a similar purpose appreciates a product, I figure it might work for me too.

There is one thing that younger readers may not understand - Old people like me have a hard time using the standard trackpad on laptops. My big fingers which are generally cold and suffering from arthritis make the use of this device very unpleasant even in contrast with a tiny cell phone which I use with relative ease. On a cell phone when I make a mistake, the correct word is usually a choice that I can tap to fix my hitting two letters or letters that I didn't mean to touch. On lap top computers, I sometimes get that cursor near where I want it only to have it suddenly fly to a distant point and I know its just my inability to use it. Touch screens and Windows 8 I can live with but a mouse sure is fine.

Since you already have the Sony and I think you made the right choice, I want to say that I like the screen cause it doesn't produce glare and I like the weight. There was another one that I thought felt heavy and I think it was a Toshiba. Some people like the hinge better than a slider but I've had connection problems in the hinge lap tops so I'm not a fan. The exposed connection on the slider is better IMO. I played with a cheaper model called the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 ( what a name ) and I loved it. It has a slower processor but I don't need more so I don't care. I may buy it. Best regards.

I beta tested Windows 8 for a year, and got used to it, and I have it on my new PC.

But the problem with Windows 8 is that it just plain makes things harder to do.

Progress is making things easier, Windows 8 doesn't do that, in fact it makes some things almost impossible.
The Mail App can't open my POP3 Mail Account, IE 10 Can't open my Comcast Home Page?

Even my iPad can do that.

It's very hard to work with multiple applications open at the same time, something I do a lot.
I could go on and on, about the things that are less convenient but the fact is it just isn't as quick and easy to use as Windows 7.

I use Classic Shell which gets me back to a reasonable usability level and I'm hoping that MS will regain their mind and make Windows Blue more PC friendly.

Mike

Nothing with Windows 8 installed on it is going to get a fair shake. Windows 8 is that bad. Microsoft is manipulating it's customers to accept advertising and forcing us to use the system their way for maximum exposure to advertising. It's just a bad bad system. It's time to move onto other operating systems and dump Microsoft.

First of all I am a pro Windows 8 consumer. For me it is the answer I've been looking for. I'm using it on my desktop and I like it. I want full Windows functionality but I also appreciate the Start screen touch environment. I am ready to buy a convertible laptop/tablet unit. But I'm having difficulty finding the one that meets all of my needs, or at least meets a minimum set of things that are firm for me, and a set of things I'm willing to be flexible about. I haven't found one yet.

For me a convertible is the only system I'll buy. I don't own a tablet because I want a physical keyboard. I don't want a hybrid because I want a permanently attached keyboard. A standard laptop is fine but I do have an iPod Touch and I very much appreciate the world of touch screen apps. I won't every buy a standard laptop again. So a system like the Lenovo Yoga 11S might just be the ticket for me. The Yoga 13 is a little too big and with it's high price I'm hoping the 11S will be a few hundred dollars cheaper in the configuration I want. But the Yoga isn't perfect.

For me a Windows 8 Pro 64-bit convertible MUST have these things:

1) A user replaceable battery. This is almost unheard of but I simply won't buy a system that I can't replace the battery myself. I believe the Yoga 11S may allow me to replace the battery by removing the keyboard and a few other things. That would be okay but I certainly would rather have a back that screws off to access the internal battery. If I can't find a system with a removable battery I'll stick with my two year old laptop.

2) An SD card slot. No exceptions

3) At least 256GB SSD or hard drive.

4) At least 6 hours of battery life. More is very desirable.

5) At least 4GB of RAM expandable to 8GB

6) I strongly desire a Haswell processor but at a minimum I want a core i5 or i7.

I'm flexible about the weight as long as it is under 3.5 pounds.

My preferred screen size is 12" but 11.6" would be fine as long as the keyboard is full size. I can live with 1366 x 768 but prefer 1600 x 900 or more.

Thickness isn't too big of a concern for me. I'd rather have features than a thin system.

I would buy a convertible without a camera on the back but I do want a front webcam for video calls.

The prices I've seen won't scare me off if I can have the features I want.