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Are we in the worst depression ever?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/123811?from=rss

Though it too early to tell, these things take time to develop, I don't think so. This situation certainly will effect the financial community and those that are in foreclosure but will it have far reaching impact on the economy at large? Maybe, maybe not.

Mostly what is being discussed in this article is the impact of the mortgage crisis and not a sluggish economy brought on by high gasoline prices. This is the issue that is creating hardship for us all.

Unfortunately even here on Cnet we have seen the reemergence of the corporate raiders that were prevalent in the mid 1980s and early nineties. These pirates are not a good indication of things to come. There reemergence is an indication that the thinking processes and tactics of the 1980's are still alive and well in the financial community and still being tolerated by our political leadership on both sides of the isle. The question is, will the general public accept this situation as well?
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(NT) I don't know. Were you alive in 1929?

In reply to: Are we in the worst depression ever?

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No, I wasn't alive in 1929

In reply to: I don't know. Were you alive in 1929?

The 1990's were our great depression. I think my wife and many other's would agree. Like my neighbor of 10 years that lost there home. They came after ours as well. We escaped by the skin of our teeth. Since we seam to be doing the same things all over again maybe they'll come after it one more time but this time I'll fight back. I was younger then with three kids to feed.

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For those of you in foreclosure.

In reply to: No, I wasn't alive in 1929

Remember, remember long and remember deep. Never forget the cold indifference of those you have dealt with. Whether you win or loss don't forget them and the pain they have caused you and your family. Smile and nod and engage in idle small talk with them but remember your just a set of numbers on paper. Miss a payment or two and see how nice they are, how understanding. Remember every the phone rings. Treat them as you have been treated with cold hard indifference and get them back now and for the rest of your life ever chance you get. Do I sound bitter? Not bitter enough. Sound harsh, not harsh enough. The President of our bank hung himself while they were after our house. That's not punishment enough.

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(NT) I owed $1,000.00

In reply to: For those of you in foreclosure.

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WOW !!!!

In reply to: For those of you in foreclosure.

That could hardly be more disturbing!!

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He hung himself in the basement of the Bank.

In reply to: WOW !!!!

I don't hold him personally responsible. My sympathies to his family are genuine. He went to school with my Father. I do hold the banking system responsible. I'm sure I'm not alone in my scorn.

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Maybe you missed it

In reply to: He hung himself in the basement of the Bank.

The disturbing part was that from the way you wrote your post, it appears you were glad the guy hanged himself for trying to hold you to your contract.

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Wow! You think a man deserved death because

In reply to: For those of you in foreclosure.

you failed to pay your bills? I'm speechless.

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You're speechless? You seem pretty talkative to me.

In reply to: Wow! You think a man deserved death because

Without knowing the whole story of what, when, where, how, and why behind Dango's misfortunes with the bank, I might tend to be a bit less judgmental.

And for Dango... you know that sharing personal details open you up to pot shots from the usual suspects. The whole "the bank did me wrong" story is sure to cause the buzzards to circle, even if you did have a legitimate gripe. Be that as it may, celebrating a man's suicide is in poor taste.

Yeah, I stuck my nose in, but sometimes the obvious realities of life need to be pointed out. You're both free to ignore me.

Grin

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So, you think a dead beat who can't come up with $1,000

In reply to: You're speechless? You seem pretty talkative to me.

should be defended at the cost of a man's life.

I imagine there IS more to the story. Such as, why Dango could not obtain $1,000 to save his house. Such as why foreclosure should occur with no proceeds to the borrower on a $1,000 debt. Such as why a deadbeat thinks that a man's life should be forfeit because he did his job. You bet there is a LOT more to this story.

As for judgemental, where do you get off with that kind of comment?! The words are out of Dango's mouth! He said the man deserved to die because there was a foreclosure on a piece of property. The foreclosure occurred because Dango failed to pay his bills! Condemning that is judgemental? You don't know the meaning of the word! You are sorely in need of a moral compass.

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I said what I said...

In reply to: So, you think a dead beat who can't come up with $1,000

What part of my comment do you need explained to you?

I did not give Dango a free pass either.

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You said;

In reply to: I said what I said...

celebrating a man's suicide is in poor taste

Poor taste? And you still don't get it? Perhaps it is not the matter of missing a moral compass. Perhaps it is a total lack of a moral capability. At some point, words begin to fail as one tries to describe reality. Perhaps it may be more appropriate to say "Shame on you", but even that may fly unimpeded over your head.
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Over my head, or over his? How about over yours?

In reply to: You said;

Seems to me that all you ever do is condemn people here on SE.

We aren't Christian enough, we aren't moral enough, we aren't smart enough, we don't castigate or condemn other people to your satisfaction, we don't show the respect to those people or ideas you hold in reverence to your satisfaction. You must either thoroughly enjoy telling yourself and everyone else that you are superior to us in every way... or it is just over your head, that your behavior is unnecessarily strident.

If the people here are so bad, then why do you keep coming back?

Don't get me wrong. I never said you can't have an opinion or express it. I'm just saying you go overboard on your pet peeves. You seem to have lost the point that this is supposed to be a DISCUSSION forum and not a CONDEMNATION forum. Sometimes we all go a bit overboard in how we pursue supporting our POV. Still, it seems to me that the reason you come here is because you are looking for a fight all the time. That doesn't seem very christian to me.

Anyway... back to my original offering to you.

I said your your choice of terminology was a bit rude, not knowing all the facts. I said much the same to Dango. I also said you could ignore me. Too bad any attempt at gaining some peaceful discussion here seems to be lost. Too bad.

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First he condemns..

In reply to: Over my head, or over his? How about over yours?

THEN he saves us from ourselves OR he wonders why he bothers.

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moral compass?

In reply to: So, you think a dead beat who can't come up with $1,000

then you must be sitting on a magnet!

you #imagine there IS more to the story#.... in which case, calling someone a dead beat without having all the facts, is, if i exaggerate slightly, out of order....

and, 'twixt thee and me, i find your interpretation of dangos post slightly 'twisted' to say the least

.,

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I'm not sure how it was twisted ...

In reply to: moral compass?

It may be that Dango intended to say something else (I don't know, I can't read minds) but the plain text is pretty gruesome:
The President of our bank hung himself while they were after our house. That's not punishment enough.

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if i were to say

In reply to: I'm not sure how it was twisted ...

the president of the bank jumped out of a window on the 20th floor after the news broke that all our savings had gone, that's not punishment enough.

am i saying he "deserved" to die?

i think not, and anyone who does say so, would be twisting what i say....

.,

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Shall we debate semantics?

In reply to: if i were to say

I suppose you COULD make that statement and NOT mean that he deserved to die.

OTOH, the text of the post was pretty clear that the president's suicide was not adequate punishment for the foreclosure. It seems to me that the text meant he deserved to die and/or deserved something worse than death.

Still, you are technically correct that what you (or Dango) SAID and what the text meant are not the same. That puts you in a solid literary tradition: "when I use a word, it means what I want it to mean." It is not, however, the best way to communicate with other people.

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not adequate punishment

In reply to: Shall we debate semantics?

exactly my point too.... (and i imagine dangos as well)

if it was me, i would want to see him suffer as his teeth fell out and a dose of crabs make him scratch himself to death....

but that's just me i guess Wink

.,

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In other words, you also would impose and celebrate the

In reply to: not adequate punishment

death penalty against a man who was doing his job against a dead beat debtor. You think a property dispute is worth a man's life. You apparently think that a President of a bank can tell his employees;

"Well, I know this may be disappointing, but you won't be getting paid this week. We have forgiven the debt of those who will not repay their loans, and we have to get the money from someone."

How about telling the little old lady with a savings account that the bank no longer has her money? Would that be better than collecting Dingo's debt?

Just who is it that you think should pay Dingo's debt for him? Apparently, even his friends were unwilling to do that.

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What Would Jesus Do?

In reply to: not adequate punishment

In other words, you also would impose and celebrate the - New!
by Kiddpeat - 3/18/08 4:14 PM
In reply to: not adequate punishment by jonah jones Moderator
death penalty against a man who was doing his job against a dead beat debtor. You think a property dispute is worth a man's life. You apparently think that a President of a bank can tell his employees;

"Well, I know this may be disappointing, but you won't be getting paid this week. We have forgiven the debt of those who will not repay their loans, and we have to get the money from someone."

How about telling the little old lady with a savings account that the bank no longer has her money? Would that be better than collecting Dingo's debt?
==============================================

Perhaps I asked the wrong person this question below. What of the corporate, and I'd add bank welfare the government has been bestowing lately on those "deadbeat" bankers who aren't able to pay their bills? I'm reminded of the story Jesus told of a man forgiven a great debt, who then left and began beating a fellow servant over some small piddly debt.

Can you tell me why we should bail out failing banks, mortgage companies (Countrywide financial thru Bank of America), investment houses (Bear Stearns thru JPM), and those who work for them thereby, many who deliberately issued subprime mortgages so they could gain the upfront commissions? Should we only bail out those who initiated the process while blaming those who were taken advantage of? Is the structure more important than those whom it supposedly serves?

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What WOULD Jesus do?

In reply to: not adequate punishment

A good question.

Would Jesus wish a man dead, and dying in agony, because the man did his job? No.

Welfare for bankers? Where did you read about that? Do you mean Bear Stearns which has now ceased to exist, and whose executives will soon lose their jobs? Are those the bankers you mean?

We DON'T bail them out. The owners lose their investment (you did also see that part of the story didn't you?). The bank goes out of business as Bear Stearns has.

Would Jesus expect the Romans to free the Jews or to forgive their rebellion? No. He said to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's. He didn't expect Rome to follow His teaching. He expected Rome to do its job.

Are you equating the Federal government with God? Do you think that the Federal government has forgiven the banks of a huge debt, and that the Federal government expects the banks to forgive consumer loans? The federal government hasn't done either one. If you think they have, post the evidence.

There is a more important question however. What would Jesus expect YOU to do? He might want you to consider;

Matt 7:3-5
"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 " Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. NASU


You might want to learn a bit more about banking before offering advice about how bankers should operate.

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correcting Kiddpeat

In reply to: not adequate punishment

Bear Stearns still exists. It's stock is still trading actively. Today it ran up to $8 range then drifted back by closing near $6. The offer (not yet a takeover) from JP Morgan is $2 a share. The Federal Reserve was the impetus for the action, behind the scenes. Do you not feel that's an extension of the Fed's mission without proper authorization? The takeover (attempted?) of Bear Stearns will no doubt be contested in court. Angie was right in that much of it was insider owned, but not 30%, more like 38% last I checked. Last Friday investors saw Bear Stearns trading at $30 into the week's closing. It's unlikely without the Federal Reserve's intrusion into the matter and using JPM as it's foil for same that Bear Stearns would have opened on Monday priced as low as it did. The Federal Reserve can be directly blamed for causing it's premature collapse, and yet the market forces are fighting against it which is why it trades 300-400% above the reported buyout price of $2 which JPM is offering. No, Bear Stearns was dealt a huge blow by it's situation, but the severest blow was the Federal Reserve stepping into territory where it doesn't belong.

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If you can't see the difference between losing a piece of

In reply to: moral compass?

property and a man losing his life, you are indeed blind.

In that context, I could care less about how you see anyone's interpretation of events. It is, however, telling that you attempt to reduce this to a mere "interpretation of events". That says it all. There is no need for additional comment.

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i can see the difference

In reply to: If you can't see the difference between losing a piece of

as opposed to those who read the word "deserved" in the post in question...


.,

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I did not see any implication that

In reply to: i can see the difference

Dango517 felt the banker "deserved" his fate either. adding your own words is another way to twist and shape an argument. a tactic that works with school children.

it was obvious that Dango517 blamed the banking industry policy for the man's death. I would call that 'unintended consequences' not intentionally desiring that result. he did not express any glee and stated his sympathy for the family.

maybe if Dango517 explains further how he became subject to foreclosure would clarify his situation.

the usual judges are making their rulings. standing on their moral soapbox. looking down on us little folks who can't grasp a higher bubble. makes me want to puke the bile from my peasant mouth that my eyes forced me to digest.

hey, the view is great from up here.

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Need more facts

In reply to: If you can't see the difference between losing a piece of

Both you and Dango are trying to judge the situation with the banker and his suicide without all the facts, and you have less than Dango I'd suppose. Interestingly, there are some societies, such as Japan, who strongly believe someone who has failed the public trust to a great degree regains some portion of honor through the act of suicide. I don't believe in any circumstances that makes it right, but social viewpoints on the matter seem to have a wide range of opinion.

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Were you looking for this? Your Welcome.

In reply to: Need more facts

Matthew 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

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That's the one.

In reply to: Were you looking for this? Your Welcome.

Another description might be, "what goes around, comes around".

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In the United States, someone who fails to pay a legitimate

In reply to: moral compass?

debt, as they agreed to do when the loan was granted, is called a "dead beat". While political correctness may wish a different description, the fact remains that the borrower failed to fulfill his or her obligation which was freely entered into. That is a fact. It doesn't matter if they chose to spend their money elsewhere and now plead that they have no money. They are still welshing on a legitimate debt, and no artistry of language can alter that fact.

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