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Are we going to put all Muslims in

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The government

will probably somewhere down the line give them some type of compensation for this false accusation as a measure of the typical politically correct garbage we have now...however, how many non-Muslim military personnel are falsely accused of something, get an investigation, are released without trials and you never hear about them? A couple recently come to mind, but can't recall the circumstances and would have to do a google search in a while to get that info. A set of three CIA officials jump immediately to my mind and that's been going on for two years already. If the Muslims want to cry 'foul' and blame it on their race, that's their right but I hardly think they are alone in their situations and I don't hear them stating those facts regarding other military personnel going thru what they have gone thru.

BTW, do you remember the poor guy who was publicly accused of planting that bomb at the Olympics out west a few years back? And what about the Ramseys????

Crap happens to good/innocent people sometimes....

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RE: Crap happens to good/innocent people sometimes...

Yeah...That's right,


AND the fact that 5 of them just happened to be Muslims is a coincidence. And it all happened after another Muslim was involved in a shooting? Just a coincidence...sure it was.

typical politically correct garbage we have now

The recruits were detained in their barracks building for 45 days and
were escorted by guards wherever they went, including the bathroom.
They said they were prohibited from speaking Arabic to each other or to
family members on the phone. All along, the men said they told
investigators they had no idea where the poisoning allegation came from
and they vigorously maintained their innocence.


What's politically correct about that?

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How many

criminals already doing time all claim to be innocent? Gimme a break/////

All along, the men said they told
investigators they had no idea where the poisoning allegation came from
and they vigorously maintained their innocence.


The guy that was hammered for MONTHS over the bomb at the Olympics kept telling people HE didn't know anything about it either and HIS life was ruined, but nobody gave a crap. So what if they had escorts to the bathroom...criminals have to crap in FRONT of the cell across from them and any guards that walk by....they were detained to their BARRACKS...NOT jailed. They couldn't speak Arabic to each other....DUHHHHHHHHH How many of their guards could understand that language well enough to know they weren't covering each other's butts with a story?

Sorry....but military rules are much different than civilian rules....you don't GET to dictate how you want to be treated, and I'm happy to see that political correctness is losing its appeal in the military and safety is taking precedence since Ft. Hood.

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That makes it OK

because it also happened to other people? It's not alright when it happens to anyone.

Diana

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I'm not saying it's okay

I'm saying things like this actually happen EVERY DAY to other people and it doesn't have anything to do with their race or religion....look at a group of guys just hanging out together for instance, like what happened at Duke University with the soccer team. They were falsely accused but vilified by the media long before the truth came out...where are they now that THEIR lives and possible career futures are ruined?

THESE guys (the Muslims) CHOSE to hang out together and possibly isolate themselves from the rest of the 'gang' of soldiers, and they were bunched together with the accusation because it 'appeared' that the military, in their opinion, might have another 'from within' terrorist attack. Is that such a hard concept when retaliation for UBL has already been called for? I think precaution was the best approach here and there is no way that I would condemn our military for investigating and holding them long enough for that investigation to be completed....which is what they did.

Like I said, military rules are much different than civilian rules and suspects are held immediately rather than allowed to be set free during an investigation where they might leave/flee the country. If that had happened, the liberal media would have jumped all over that and military heads would have rolled....the military was in a no-win situation, no matter how you look at it.

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But there are other problems

You point out military rules are different. True. However, I doubt the military rules allow for part of what allegedly happened.

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When you volunteer

for a 'high value' position as a Muslim in a Muslim war-torn area, with the side of that war where radical Muslims have vowed to kill that side no matter what, ANY rational person would HAVE to know that if something happens, that person will be suspect first and foremost as a matter of self-preservation. They took that risk when they chose to do that job. Even civilian interrogations in a police station are verbally rough in order to get to the truth...if these guys couldn't handle verbal interrogation getting a little nasty in order to eliminate them as suspects during that investigation, too bad....they were let go....which is far better treatment than they would have received from 'their own' had they been captured during a skirmish. These guys are NOT children, for crying out loud...they have LIVED in horrendous conditions by their own 'governments', and I suspect they honestly believed they would be given a free pass just because they are sharing quarters with US military, and are now being babies about this. Even our OWN soldiers during basic training are belittled, berated, and 'toughened' up by drill sargeants in order to 'get what it takes' to be a soldier, marine, sailor, etc. If you can't take the heat, you get out of the kitchen. If you are out in the jungle and a spider bites you and makes you sick, you are going to suspect every spider you encounter after that even ones that don't normally bite....

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Then all the Muslims should be round up and put

in "relocation" camps just in case.

BTW I've been bitten by a lot of things and I don't condemn the whole group just because they have the same number of legs.

A lot of this reminds me of throwing people out of the military because they are gay even though they desparately need their skills. What really bothers me is that they were not re-instated even though they were cleared and the military really needs their skills. That's obvious since they were forebidden from talking in their native language. There was no one there that could keep an ear on them.

Even the military said that the restrictions placed on them during their 45 day detention "were found to be overly restrictive."

As to the harrassment of the other troops, it's gone on for a long time. I remember when the troops were integrated. I didn't understand what the big deal was. I was an Air Force brat so I went to school and lived with blacks and whites and didn't see any problems. I remember an WWII sargent telling me about and Jew that was being harrassed and, when he complained about it, the soldiers were all demoted. From that time on no one would talk to him at all and he finally committed suicide. Women still have problems with other soldiers and officers. How many tell that they were raped and they were the ones punished.

I'm not saying that the military is a bad place but it does tend to be the ultimate in "That's the way we've alwasy done it" mentality. That doesn't work anymore. Not with the enemies and wars we're having now.

Whether it's the military or CIA or FBI or the White House or the local cops, we have to quit ruining people's lives and, then, just dropping them without even a by your leave. I like to think we're better than that but then again, maybe we're not.

Diana

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RE: When you volunteer

What about when you're "recruited/invited/enticed"?

with the side of that war where radical Muslims have vowed to kill that
side no matter what, ANY rational person would HAVE to know that if
something happens, that person will be suspect first and foremost as a
matter of self-preservation.


IF you VOLUNTEER to fight the radical Muslim and IF anything goes wrong YOU (the volunteer) will be the FIRST suspect?

The ONLY suspect if recruited/invited/enticed"?

That sounds pretty fair. (nah...I'm lying)

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RE: All along, the men said they told investigators they had
All along, the men said they told investigators they had no idea where the poisoning allegation came from and they vigorously maintained their innocence.

Were they telling the truth?
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Richard Jewel in Atlanta, and he did get sue

and won some and lost some it seems.

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(NT) Good for them
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RE: military rules are much different than civilian rules

Yes they are,,,but still

The Army did acknowledge, however, that the restrictions placed on
them during their 45 day detention "were found to be overly
restrictive."



The Army can admit it, why can't others?

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Because I don't feel the same way

Obviously there are still 'some' politically correct statements that 'have' to be made because they are probably looking at getting some type of compensation and we have wusses as leaders right now. I imagine that the five involved are worried that they won't be able to go down that road of 'pathway to citizenship' for services rendered but they will eventually be allowed to....and they will find employment again either with the military very quietly once this dies down or in the private sector. I also imagine that they will be given some type of honorable discharge if it comes down to that, but I don't even think they will be mustered out unless it's because they decide to do that on their own.

Crap happens to good/innocent people, but I believe this is a 'temporary' news story that won't go anywhere and they will become yesterday's old news and tomorrow's page 25 if at all.

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Are you admitting they are good/innocent people?

and they've been crapped on?

When you crap on someone you should suffer the consequences.

I also imagine that they will be given some type of honorable discharge.


I think they should each be given $5 Million and sent packing.

While you're at it

Give each and every Muslim in the military $5 million...as a buy out. (tax free, of course)

That'll show 'em.

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I don't have to admit to anything

since I wasn't there. They were investigated, cleared, and released. I already said in my very first post that they would probably be compensated; however, I don't believe they should be. It's the 'politically correct' attitudes this country has become obsessed with that will give them compensation for a risk they took on their own when they made the decision to enlist.

Are you saying that every black in the military should also be compensated with $5M for the way they were treated previously as well? Oh wait, you're a progressive liberal, so yes, you would believe they should be. How about every Italian who was called 'wop'...after all, we DID fight the Italians during the war long ago. Did we compensate every German that enlisted because we fought Hitler and many of his regime killed us? If I remember correctly, we weren't real kind to those guys who joined up either back then.

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RE: You won't admit it, but you didn't say NO.

So I'll take that as a YES.

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You're being obtuse

I wasn't in on the investigation, so have to assume they aren't suspects anymore. Does that make them innocent, who knows? I have to assume that either they are completely innocent or there just wasn't enough evidence to charge them...that happens often, even with guilty suspects.

I'm saying that they will be probably be compensated in some fashion just because of political correctness...and I don't believe they should be since they volunteered for a job that would actually put themselves into a suspect position, and they had their own agenda for doing it (US citizenship, and IF they are covert terrorists, that would put them into a much better position for an inside attack. Terrorists are not stupid people, and they plan well ahead and take their time perfecting that plan.

For them to be upset over the fact that they were suspect in the poisoning of US military personnel had to be a reality that they were willing to risk. Now that a situation has bitten them in the butt can hardly be surprising to them. Especially when there is already a factual history of internal attacks that we are cautiously but continuously watching for.

Unless I SAY 'YES' or 'NO', don't take it for granted that you know what I think. I have to go with the facts...and the facts are that they were released...that doesn't mean that they aren't still being looked at by investigators since we don't have the 'rest of the story'...only what these men have said publicly. There hasn't been any public statement by the investigators.

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RE: I have to assume that they are completely innocent

We're almost there, a couple more posts

You can say it,


Say it, "they are innocent".

Even if they are Military (and it's all different there) Innocent until/unless proven Guilty

no mention about the people that made the charges?

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Not guilty

is not the same thing as "innocent".

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RE: Not Guilty

In order for that to happen

You need a trial...they don't usually have trials if there is not enough evidence to have a trial.

No Evidence = Innocent

Presumed Innocent UNTIL proven Guilty, AND AFTER proven Not Guilty, OR not charged.

I'm guessing the people that accused them of poisoning the food weren't Muslims. (since THEY/Muslims all stick together)

ALL people that aren't Muslims should be thought of as NOT innocent of perjury?

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You got it 'almost' wrong

No Evidence = Innocent

No evidence doesn't equal not ENOUGH evidence AT THIS TIME...

They weren't 'cleared'...they were let go according to what I've read, so they may very well still be suspects, which might also be why they weren't reinstated to their original positions.

We don't have all of the information needed to state with certainty that they are 'innocent', so no matter how many ways you try to bait me, I will only state what I've stated before.

But since you are convinced they are innocent and should be given $5M each for being falsely accused, I ask you again, should all blacks that served in the military long ago, along with Italians, Germans, etc. who were not treated 'nicely' be given monetary compensation as well?

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Since you want to ask questions that I haven't answered

Has you son got any Muslim shipmates?

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Actually, they are still being investigated by the FBI

On their records is just that they were investigated. What I don't understand is, even though they have been cleared, they aren't still in the Army being used as translators which the Army still desparately need.

Should they drum all Muslims out of the Army or, perhaps, everyone that knows Aramaric or Farse just in case?

Diana

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when people are...

...getting dog bit, you don't go out chasing down cats.

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So what?

They still needed to be investigated....or do you think that any Muslim, JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIM, should be given the benefit of the doubt and a walk? The truth DID come out after the investigation was complete and they were let go....that's justice.

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Good point, normally, But

in their part of the world it's entirely likely an irrevocable 'contract' is already out on them.

Perhaps they should have shunned the military; would have kept them away from all suspicion ... but who else has jobs there? (Besides the poppy business.) Sad

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So, in their opinion

or eyes, just because they joined the military 'there', they should be given the walk because we should presume/assume they are the good guys? If they have joined the military, they should also be aware that investigations of ALL military personnel are the same and no one gets preferential treatment. If they didn't understand that going in, then they went into the military strictly to become a US citizen and get gainful employment and were naive (kinda hard to believe) about military security regarding 'radical extremists' possibly infiltrating our military and how it might be handled if a 'situation' arose. They have learned a valuable lesson regarding how much more careful and watchful we have had to become and if these guys can't understand that, too bad. They were investigated, cleared, and let go. End of story.

It wasn't all that long ago that a 'trusted' Iraqi infiltrated the 'green zone' and tore hell out of the place....

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(NT) So they are guilty until proven innocent?
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No, but they are

definitely suspect when you consider that we HAVE been infiltrated already both here in the USA and abroad....I think that any rational person volunteering for a position would understand that they WILL be suspect. They weren't jailed, arrested, or anything like it....they were held and investigated, cleared, and let go. Just like anybody else would have been.

And you really need to get off this obsession of interment..no one, even immediately after 9-11, has ever even suggested it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be as cautious as possible. We had the same issues with Viet Nam....'natives' volunteered to help us and turned out to be 'sheep in wolves' clothing' and quite a few of our men and women died because of blind trust.

As for being bitten...sure you don't lump them all into the same category after a bite, but you look closer at a spider when it lands on you after that first bite. Guilty until proven innocent? No...just more careful the next time around.

Another example of infiltration....just as the guys were gearing up in Kuwait to enter Iraq, there was an enlisted man (made in the USA no less) who bombed an officer's quarters just because he sympathized with the terrorists.

I would much rather we continue to err on the side of caution than watch on the sidelines while our military personnel are killed or maimed because of political correctness.

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