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General discussion

Appalled, but not surprised.

Feb 27, 2004 2:22AM PST

Discussion is locked

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No, it is but a minute mote in mine own eye--the oh so obvious beam is in yours. (NT)
Mar 1, 2004 3:50AM PST
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Well, Praise the Lord...
Mar 1, 2004 11:57AM PST

...there's a religious revival going on in this subthread. (tic)

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So you have a 'problem' with the Dreidle too? (NT)
Feb 28, 2004 1:10AM PST
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As usual you're completely off base.
Feb 29, 2004 11:58PM PST

Where do my objections apply to the dreidel? Since you missed it, go back and look at the first sentence of the post you're trying to reply to. It might help you if you occasionally responded to what was in a post rather than what was not in a post.

Dan

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Your lack of awareness does not make it me who is 'off base'...
Mar 1, 2004 2:15AM PST
"The big part that is objectionable is profiteering on acts of torture and murder. I'd feel similarly to reproduction ovens from German concentration camps ..."

The Dreidle is sold for a profit and you obviously are unaware of its purpose and meaning.
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You're being off base makes you off base. -nt
Mar 1, 2004 2:53AM PST

.

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You finally admit you were unaware of the implications of your statement. (NT)
Mar 1, 2004 3:52AM PST
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You finally admit you are unaware of what goes on around you.
Mar 1, 2004 4:24AM PST

Your posts consistently make this clear, but your recognition and acceptance is the first step.

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WWJD? [nt]
Mar 1, 2004 11:59AM PST

.

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He would say "Dan's right." -nt
Mar 1, 2004 9:54PM PST

.

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Appalled by a symbol of sacrificial giving,
Feb 27, 2004 5:43AM PST

but not killing of unborn infants, or assaults on marriage? Interesting how quickly self righteousness can turn.

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Appalled by profiteering on a replica of an instrument of torture.
Feb 27, 2004 6:05AM PST

It seems you've misunderstood my objection.

Dan

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Dan, my wife reminded me that nails have been a part of Christian
Feb 27, 2004 10:15AM PST

culture since they were used on Christ. It's not new to the Gibson film. Christians want people to know that the death of Christ was both sacrificial and real.

And if Gibson recoups his investment, what is that to you? He is entitled to do that. It's probably the only way that he can show that this type of film does have commercial potential, and should be produced. The potential gain is more realistic and accurate films. If Gibson makes a profit? So what! He should. If he gives the profit away, what will you say then?

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Don' t you remember, Dan...
Feb 27, 2004 5:51PM PST

Dan, don't you remember in the '60's when companies like Revell sold plastic model kits of things like midieval torture chamber scenes, including things like the rack? Did you object to that? I was into Big Daddy Roth and models of things like "rat Fink", but I remember those. I dare say with the wooden model interest with some adults making models of no end of things, there are models of such things still out there. Do you object to them, or just the specific case of things relating to this particular movie?

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Given your description..
Mar 1, 2004 12:01AM PST

I would object to them, too. I don't remember the things you describe. I'm sure they were never around my house.

Dan

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NT - At least he hasn't set up any Happy Meals
Feb 27, 2004 11:08AM PST

.

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Re: business is business (run by weirdos)
Feb 27, 2004 5:25PM PST
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You're saying Jews for Jesus are weirdos?
Feb 29, 2004 5:56AM PST

In other words, one can't be a Jew if one accepts Jesus as the messia? Or, you are weird if you do that? I hate to break it to you Jonah, but Jesus was a Jew and He said He IS the Messia. In fact, a lot of Jews, such as Paul, accepted his claim. So, why are these people weirdos?

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Re:You're saying Jews for Jesus are weirdos?
Mar 1, 2004 12:06AM PST
one can't be a Jew if one accepts Jesus as the messia?

My personal opinion is "no." The primary difference between Judaism and Christianity is that acceptance. A comedian (I forget who) put it well:

"Jews for Jesus" -- isn't that kinda like "vegetarians for meat?"
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I look at it like software
Mar 1, 2004 12:41AM PST

Some people still want to run the older version, others decided to upgrade to the latest edition.

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Re:I look at it like software
Mar 1, 2004 3:19AM PST

And some try upgrading but find that the older version gave them fewer headaches, and go back to it.

Wink

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So Jewishness is defined solely on rejecting Christ.
Mar 1, 2004 4:23AM PST

There is no distinct Jewish culture, and, in fact, Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. were not Jews. That is what you are saying isn't it?

Sounds like religious bigotry to me.

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Re:So Jewishness is defined solely on rejecting Christ.
Mar 1, 2004 10:10PM PST

No, that is not what I'm saying. Please stop trying to twist my words. What I said, simply, was that the belief that Jesus was the Messiah is the main thing that distinguishes Christians from Jews.

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That's exactly what you did say
Mar 1, 2004 11:04PM PST

"one can't be a Jew if one accepts Jesus as the messia?

My personal opinion is "no." "

So a Jew that accepts Christ as the Messiah is no longer a Jew? Therefore Jesus and the Apostles were no longer Jews?

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Re:That's exactly what you did say
Mar 1, 2004 11:27PM PST

My opinion -- if you accept Christ as the Messiah you are a Christian, though your ethnicity may still be Jewish.

Organized Christianity began to take hold as a faith after Jesus' death. Whether Jesus considered himself to be the Messiah is a matter of faith.

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Re:Re:You're saying Jews for Jesus are weirdos?
Mar 1, 2004 12:02PM PST
My personal opinion is "no." The primary difference between Judaism and Christianity is that acceptance.


Doesn't that ignore the difference between Judaism and being a Jew? regarding in the heritage in the sense of a people or family line?

That is, a Jew can be a Christian even if someone believeing in the faith of Judaism isn't a Christian.

Ok, that's too confusing sounding I admit, but I think maybe most understand.


RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Re: You're saying Jews for Jesus are weirdos?
Mar 1, 2004 12:28PM PST

Hi, Josh.

From where I sit, the problem is that there are two meanings to the word "Jewish." One speaks of religion, the other of heritage/lineage. But if 'secular Jews" are in fact Jews (as I believe the Israeli Supreme Court has held them to be), then wouldn't "Jews for Jesus" be, also? I'm not trying to be disrespectful here -- I know this is a touchy issue, but I've never understood the consistency between what you're saying now and your comment elsewhere in this thread (or another one recently) that being Jewish doesn't make you anti-Christian.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Why care what the Israeli Supreme Court defines as a Jew?
Mar 1, 2004 12:52PM PST

Obviously people can become a "religious" Jew without benefit of genetic heritage. Those who are descended from Jacob would all have Jewish blood, and if they want should be considered Jewish.

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Re:Re: You're saying Jews for Jesus are weirdos?
Mar 1, 2004 10:13PM PST

Hi Dave:

"Anti-Christian" is a term that (to me) suggests bigotry or some sort of opposition to Christianity. I'm not anti-Christian.

But yes, you're right, there is the Jewish faith and there is Jewish culture, and it's certainly possible to be of Jewish lineage and have Christian beliefs.

Let's also keep in mind that I did not use the word "weirdos" to describe Jews for Jesus.

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What a pathetic thread this is...."Appalled, but not surprised." Seems
Feb 28, 2004 1:39AM PST

the only people making fun or being critical are our Atheist and people of Jewish faith.

-Sigh-

JR