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Another Kansas controversy

by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / February 26, 2006 10:38 PM PST
Ellen Goodman: What a drag: 'Reefer Madness' of teen sex in Kansas.
(Chronicle login: semods4@yahoo.com; pw = speakeasy)

>> Kansas is one of 12 states in which underage sex (under 16 in this case) is a crime even when it involves teen peers. In 2003, state Attorney General Phill Kline, a bandstanding pro-lifer, interpreted that law to require educators, counselors and health care workers to report virtually all sexual activity by those under 16 to the state.

The Kline Theory goes something like this: If sexual activity between teens is illegal, there's no such thing as consensual sex, and thus every act is harmful. These acts include "any lewd fondling or touching of the person ... with the intent to arouse or satisfy the sexual desires." In short, health care workers have to rat on 15-year-old sexual criminals who are lustily and mutually "abusing" each other in the back seat of a Toyota....

In Kansas, instead of homing in on real sexual abuse of children, they are redefining all underage sex as abuse. As for the notion that girls are invariably victims of sex, unable to consent to "lewd fondling": Do we want to return to those yesteryears when women were supposed to be sexually inert until their wedding night when they magically became eager sexual partners? <<

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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Oh yes, that is so very terrible...
by Edward ODaniel / February 26, 2006 11:40 PM PST

to be homing in on an ILLEGAL act (don't like the law move to Kansas and try to change it) that in its reporting can point to not only abuse of minors by adults but transmission of STDs that include AIDS among minors.

Ellen Goodman is a fine example of a major failure of the evolutionary theory of survival of the fittest and her devoted sheeplike followers further attest to the failure.

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Was always told that the best way to get
by Diana Forum moderator / March 1, 2006 10:47 AM PST

rid of a bad law was to strictly enforce it.

Diana

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Huh?
by Cindi Haynes / February 27, 2006 1:13 AM PST
Do we want to return to those yesteryears when women were supposed to be sexually inert until their wedding night when they magically became eager sexual partners?

Nahh, it'd be much better to have them sexually active, promiscuous, experienced, and ready to turn ''pro'' before they even get their driver licenses!

Cindi
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Or pregnant
by Glenda / February 27, 2006 1:24 AM PST
In reply to: Huh?

and not knowing who the father is:( Another, if it feels good do it!

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You missed the part about getting a few STDs under their
by Kiddpeat / February 27, 2006 2:28 AM PST
In reply to: Huh?

belt to fill out their experience. Untreatable ones would, of course, provide the highest level of experience.

Sad

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So do you think.....
by Josh K / February 27, 2006 2:35 AM PST

.....that arresting the "offenders" is the way to address the issue of underage sex? We're talking about cases in which both participants are underage.

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It's a lot better than the alternative. Maybe an arrest
by Kiddpeat / February 27, 2006 2:40 AM PST
In reply to: So do you think.....

would get a family's attention. What is your solution?

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And equal opportunity for punishment?
by Roger NC / February 27, 2006 3:25 AM PST
Is oral sex performed by a boy a reportable crime? Yes, said Kline. Oral sex performed by a girl? ''I'm not certain,'' he said...........

She said teen girls are always victims of sexual activity because ''there's always a power differential between a boy and a girl.'' When girls have sex, they aren't doing, she said, ''they have been done to.'' .............

Kansas actually believed that all under-16 sex was harmful, why would it allow 13-year-olds to marry?



Do we need less encouragement of early promiscuity? Yes.

Do we need to send teenage boys to jail and mark as lifetime pedophile for groping sessions with teenage girls? No.

Do we need to mark all girls that go further than a cheek kiss as damaged goods and unfit for marriage and decent society? NO.


Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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The question was arrest, not jail. What would you do to cut
by Kiddpeat / February 27, 2006 11:18 AM PST

down on this fairly dangerous activity?

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Educate the would-be participants....
by Josh K / February 28, 2006 12:53 AM PST

....so that they better understand the possible unwanted consequences of that activity. Becoming a parent at age 15 is a lot more scary than spending a night in jail.

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Your logic is faulty ...
by Evie / February 28, 2006 12:56 AM PST

... if their raging hormones are so strong, education isn't going to do it. Enforcement of the law and at the very least their parents finding out will go a lot further to curb this dangerous activity.

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It will do wonders....
by Josh K / February 28, 2006 12:59 AM PST

....for their college applications as well.

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Something for them to think about ...
by Evie / February 28, 2006 1:01 AM PST
In reply to: It will do wonders....

... BEFORE doing it, just as much as other things kids shouldn't be doing.

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(NT) (NT) That's called majoring in the minors.
by Kiddpeat / February 28, 2006 9:00 AM PST
In reply to: It will do wonders....
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Parent? Isn't the usual choice to solve the problem by
by Kiddpeat / February 28, 2006 2:34 AM PST

using abortion? That's a powerful education. Encounter an unwanted consequence? Kill the source of the problem.

It's the rare teenager that would be slowed at all by contemplating a possible, but remote outcome.

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You're illustrating one of the needs for education
by Josh K / February 28, 2006 2:56 AM PST

Too many kids think of abortion as a birth control method because they don't know any better.

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It's not because they don't know better Josh ...
by Evie / February 28, 2006 3:09 AM PST

... its because they know it is available and they can "erase" the consequences of their irresponsible behavior.

Of course there's also no end to teens thinking "it won't happen to me". They have the "get out of jail free" card in abortion, but not for many STD's.

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"It won't happen to me"....
by Josh K / February 28, 2006 6:07 AM PST

....is another product of ignorance of the facts.

Yes, abortion is available. But kids who use it as a means of birth control usually do so because they don't understand that there are easier (and less expensive) options.

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That's pure BS. Kids are a lot savier than you give them
by Kiddpeat / February 28, 2006 2:25 PM PST

credit for, or is that just an excuse to do nothing?

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(NT) (NT) Utter nonsense.
by Evie / February 28, 2006 9:16 PM PST
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My post was based.....
by Josh K / February 28, 2006 10:05 PM PST

.....on information provided to me by someone who worked in an abortion clinic for nearly 20 years. Or are you saying my mother is full of it?

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Or perhaps the kids don't want to admit what they did?
by Evie / March 1, 2006 9:21 PM PST
In reply to: My post was based.....

It is sheer lunacy to believe that kids are mature enough to make good decisions about "responsible sex" if only they are educated, only to find that when educated they aren't making those decisions. Planned Parenthood has aggressively campaigned in the schools for decades now. Kids know all about it, they demonstrate they are not ready by getting pregnant anyway! Get it?

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Josh, it's also a problem that the brain area for judgement
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / February 28, 2006 10:30 PM PST

develops a lot later than previously thought -- typically in the early-to-mid 20's. Hormones and sex drive, OTOH, are at their peak in the mid-teens, shortly after puberty -- when there's not adequate judgement to handle it well.
This simple fact, only recently discovered, helps to explain why teens take rsks while driving. Apparently, Mom and Dad were right when they said we lacked common sense! As for links, Here's the result of googling "brain judgment risk twenties."

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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When I was in high school....
by Josh K / March 1, 2006 1:21 AM PST

....I had no fear. I'd ride the subway at all hours of the night without a thought and did a lot of other things I'd never think of doing now. Looking back, of course, I'm amazed I lived to tell about it.

But I was careful when it came to sex, because I was informed.

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Mantras are comforting, but do not solve problems.
by Kiddpeat / February 28, 2006 9:04 AM PST

If they haven't already gotten it, more of the same will neither help nor change anything.

You're using the mantra of education as a substitute for thinking. Just exactly what will your education do that hasn't been done repeatedly before?

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So you think "making out" is "fairly dangerous," KP?

The problem with the "nothing but a chaste kiss until the day of marriage" approach (which the Catholic Church also advocates) is that human beings aren't built that way. Healthy relationships develop over time both "spiritually" and physically, in parallel. There's a large (and healthy) middle ground between promiscuity and the "nothing but chaste kisses" notion.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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and THAT is the problem DK
by Glenda / February 28, 2006 1:40 PM PST

Teenagers don't have a clue what all of that means. Too often they find them selves carried away with the emotion and feeling of the moment and have no thought about consequences, too many girls either wind up pregnant with a baby to care for and never finish school, The boy is too young to support the child so she winds up on welfare:(

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Exactly right, Glenda.
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 1, 2006 1:01 PM PST

Which is why "abstinence only," while appealing to our moralistic side, is a very bad idea, since there's no fallback when the teaching fails. Programs that couple teaching about respect, responsibility, and contraception may be no more effective at promoting abstinence, but they're much more effective at promoting public health and keeping unplanned kids off welfare.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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appealing to our moralistic side??
by Steven Haninger / March 1, 2006 8:29 PM PST
In reply to: Exactly right, Glenda.

Dave, I don't disagree with the statement but this is not just a moralistic view coming only from that viewpoint. It's very much one of science and common sense which is also adopted by those you might call moralists. They did not invent this side of the issue. Moralists will also say that suicide is immoral. Ergo, jumping from a tall building to end one's life is immoral. Well, maybe true, but it's also quite dangerous....common sense and science again. The same goes for failure to control one's sexual urges. It's dangerous and destructive.

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In today's society, what you say is true, Steve.
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 4, 2006 12:52 PM PST

But mankind evolved under very different circumstances, where that really wasn't an issue. That's part of the problem -- our natural urges fly in the face of societal normals and morality that came about much later. Not an excuse, just a fact that greatly complicates the teen sexuality issue. We evolved in circumstances when 20 was middle age, and 25 made you a tribal elder -- survival of the species required childbirth in the mid-to-late teens.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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