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Angeline -- just got my new iMac!

by Josh K / January 23, 2008 11:27 AM PST

This is my first post from my new computer. So far, so good; setting it up on my wireless network literally took seconds. I've still got a lot of files and stuff to transfer over, peripherals to set up, etc. but I'm lovin' it so far. The only thing I'm not so sure about yet is the Safari browser. I may download Firefox since I've gotten so comfortable with it.

I've got some tweaking to do but I'm very happy with my decision so far.


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Welcome to apple, Josh !
by grimgraphix / January 23, 2008 2:36 PM PST

It's not a perfect computer, but it's about as close to a star trek computer (a computer that does what you ask it to do with a minimum of hassle) as you can get right now. I've been using one for 3 years now and I've been very happy.

You know where the mac forums are, and if you ever need any help, feel free to email me.


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by James Denison / January 23, 2008 4:11 PM PST

Does Apple still have a one click mouse?

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No. Left click. Right click, just like yours.
by Angeline Booher / January 23, 2008 8:21 PM PST
In reply to: mouse

But there are no left or right buttons- just I guess you would call them "touch sensitive".

There are 2 other buttons on the sides I don't use.

A small scroll button that works effortlessly for me. I have it set so I can easily scroll, not only up and down, but also right and left to easily read these forum pages. Can also be set to 360 degrees.

Very comfortable in my hand.

Speakeasy Moderator

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Angeline, ONE BUTTON?
by taboma / January 26, 2008 2:13 PM PST

?is the Mac. There are two-click and other models available.
At work we all use a one-button mouse professionally.
Why would I need any others? I am talking graphic production here.
We use our command keys to what a six button can do in record time.
We are used to the various command options on the keyboard and prefer a ONE BUTTON mouse.
Press Command/Option/Shift keys and control with the mouse Font Size, Photo increase size be 5% - or +, Base line shift.
Command Shift: Leading, Kearning, and many other functions. No need for a two or more button mouse. There are many key commands that can be used that are faster than programming a six click mouse.
I am talking Graphic Production here.

Here are some links I think that everone would find interesting:

The PC mouse inventor. Douglas C. Englebert.
I find this amazing.





Anyone who likes my One Button Click Club Doc, just print it out, sign it and frame it for your office wall. I love it and in time, you will too!
I kept it old looking for a purpose.
Here is the Doc and link.


Hope you enjoyed it.


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and then we grew up....
by James Denison / January 26, 2008 6:33 PM PST
In reply to: Angeline, ONE BUTTON?

....and learned how to use 2 buttons. Wink

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Mac users tend to laugh at the multiple button thing.
by EdH / January 26, 2008 11:46 PM PST

I wish there was a key on my keyboard that would bring up context menus like on a Mac. There is theh Windows menu key but it is on the wrong side of the keyboard and doesn't work in all

Like I said, the Windows keyboard layout is badly designed. I don't think they put any thought into it.

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and then we grew up....
by taboma / February 5, 2008 1:56 PM PST

James, Show me how to use multiple buttons with Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Illustrator? I would like your secret. Maybe I can learn something from you. Does a two or six-buttom work with Adobe In-Design? I do not think so.
Unfortunately you do know anything about graphics and how they operate.
Those graphics are a breed by themselves. Something that you may never understand at all.
Ask Grim. He will gladly explain why a two or six button mouse is useless in graphics or in any Adobe Apps.
It is kind of like, understanding the principles of graphic Apps.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
One button, two button or six button. What is the APP?
How and where do you use it?
I use key commands on all Apps.

Grim, please explain to James Denison. I think that he needs a learning curve.
Be gentle with him. He grew up using a two button mouse.
James is way ahead of us.

Can we teach James key commands?
It does take a while to learn. I am on my 20th year and I still have to learn more. It is endless with the Mac. How about PC and the Apps?

Cnt/Option/Alt/Shift/Hike! Do you have those commands down yet?
Good luck James. Give Grim and I a note back when you do.
Until you do, do not make fun of my one-button click club. :

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Kevin, that sounds like a true Mac person who doesn't really
by Kiddpeat / January 26, 2008 10:39 PM PST
In reply to: Angeline, ONE BUTTON?

understand the world outside of Apple. I am truly surprised that anyone would seriously argue that a one button mouse is superior. Personally, I think it points to design errors in the Mac.

Perhaps it is because Mac people don't use the mouse much? Perhaps that is because the mouse on their machine is more trouble than it is worth? I would rather, for example, right click the mouse to call up a context menu, and then left click my choice than reach for keys on the keyboard. That is even more true when I am working with graphics using a graphics tablet where I can left click with the wand, and right click with the wand's button. I would also rather, while surfing the web, click a button with my thumb to go back a screen, than reach for the keyboard to do so. I guess Windows people are more mouse centric while Mac people are more keyboard centric. That is quite a change from the original Mac era which seemed to be the opposite.

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I think they understand perfectly....
by EdH / January 26, 2008 11:39 PM PST

More buttons are really not necessary. But we've been through this before.

I believe more Mac people are familiar with Windows than the other way around.

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I think they understand perfectly....
by taboma / January 28, 2008 5:25 PM PST

EdH, I have a PC also and can work all my Adobe software programs on them equally as well. I prefer a Mac and a one-button mouse and work with my keyboard shortcuts.
To me it is much faster than having six buttons that you will have to program from day one! There are also fast keys that I use on my Mac daily. Same as on a PC computer system.

Good Lord I have Carpel. Do you want me to have Carpel 2 screwing around with a six-button mouse?
It seems a shame that we have to go back to this bull:
Which is superior? Mac or Windows or PC.
Get with it all of you. Mac is good. PC is good. Both work.
All depends on what you use it for and what APPS you work with.

I am into graphic publishing. I like using a Mac. I am more comfortable with it. AND a one-button mouse.
Simple as that!

Want to use a six-button mouse? Be my guest. Enjoy it.

I am into production on a daily basis with Adobe Photoshop, Acrobat and Illustrator. A six-button mouse will not help me here at all.
Try it and forgeddabout it!
It goes for any Adobe software or Quark Express
Keep it simple. Keep it quick. Keep it productive?

Why is it when you walk into an Apple store, you notice one simple mouse that has one click and a very simple scroll on the top. That's all you really need from the word GETGO!

I hope all of you realize one observation here. KISS. Keep it Simple Stupid! What ever works to do your job.
I really find it childish to talk about PC and MAC here on this Forum.

Grow up and get a real job. Get on with you life for God?s sake and stop talking about PC?s and MAC?s. Which one is superior?



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HEY!!!! Hold on! EdH was...
by Angeline Booher / January 28, 2008 7:39 PM PST

..... NOT speaking against ANY Apple mouse.

He only opined that Mac users may know more about Windows than Windows users know about Macs.

I have never seen EdH make any un-constructive criticism of a Mac.

(You may have replied to the wrong post.)

Speakeasy Moderator

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by taboma / January 28, 2008 8:21 PM PST

It was a general post and not spacific to EdH.
That was my intent.
And not directed to EdH.
I get kind of tired with OS. Which is better.
One button or six on a mouse.
Who really cares?
It comes down to the simple fact of what your skills are and what you know and like.
I have a friend that I taught Adobe Illustrator on his Mac with only 4 megs of ram.
Today that person works at Dreamworks and has been useing a PC for the last 15 years in place of a Mac. Why? Because Dreamworks built all of their software around the PC. And that is what he uses at work professionally.
How about that.


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EdH ,,,
by Angeline Booher / January 28, 2008 11:12 PM PST
In reply to: Angeline

,,,,, was insightful and non-judgmental in all of his replies in this topic, but got the "Sheesh" reply. which I though was not addressed "in general". And sometimes we do reply to the wrong post im error.

So I apologize for maybe over-reacting. But I think we should be cautious and direct our "Sheesh" replies" to those who probably are more deserving, don't you think?

Speakeasy Moderator

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(NT) No offense taken.
by EdH / January 28, 2008 11:27 PM PST
In reply to: Angeline
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Carpel thought...
by J. Vega / January 29, 2008 2:08 AM PST

If you have a Carpel situation, have you ever looked into something like a Kensington Expert Mouse, which is actually a trackball, a pool ball size ball surrounded by 4 buttons in the basic model or up to things like 4 big main buttons plus a scroll wheel or ring and 6 smaller buttons that can do things like take you to a favorite web site with 1 click?
I Don't have Carpel, but one hand is basically useless and I have limited use of the other. But with one of those I can keep my wrist resting on a gel pad and use the ball or buttons with just a flick of a finger, not even having to move my shoulder or wrist at all. You can program any of the big buttons to do whatever you want, even to popping up a menu that you design to let you select from a list of things to do. I understand that a lot of gamers like that feature as when they use their game software they can set up a menu on one button to let them quickly do things. Oh, BTW, chording (pressing 2 buttons at once) can act like a 5th button. Lets me do no end of things quickly with just moving a finger- or two in the case of a chord.
Also, it's not a PC/Mac thing, you can put one on either. But I guess that I should mention that according to Kensington, you don't install Kensington's software with Vista, that OS has support for it built in. I have no experience with Vista, but I use one with both W98 and XP with the software and in both cases it works like a charm. Kensington has the best tech support that I have ever seen.

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Carpel thought...
by taboma / January 29, 2008 3:03 PM PST
In reply to: Carpel thought...

J. Vega, thanks for the info. I have carpel.
Pain in the butt!! :

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Carpel thought.
by taboma / February 1, 2008 3:19 PM PST
In reply to: Carpel thought...

J. Vega, thanks with the Kensington info and their tech support. Nice to know that.
Go to the VISTA Forum and ask John Willkenson about it also. John is brilliant! And would give you the right answer to your questions concerning XP or VISTA. John knows all WIN OS's there is. One smart man.

J. Vega, can you email me? I accept emails from members on my profile.
You have not filled out your profile yet, even with 3,900 posts by you. Therefore I cannot send you email.


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Tunnel carpal syndrome
by Roger NC / February 9, 2008 12:05 AM PST
In reply to: Carpel thought...

You might consider the Evoluent mouse.

Never seen it in a retail store, but available form Amazon and others online I know.

My wife was diagnosed with tunnel carpal syndrome at work before we were married. Just a few days after getting the Evoluent mouse, her pain was greatly diminished.

It keeps your wrist vertical rather than flat. Your wrist movement is in the back and forth direction rather than left and right.

(From the companies site, so use the appropriate amount of salt. Wink )

Approved ergonomic mouse of University of California at Berkeley
The Evoluent VerticalMouse 2 was evaluated in 2007 by a team at the health services clinic in UC Berkeley, including medical doctors, physical therapists, ergonomists, and administrators. It was found to be comfortable, easily adapted to, and promote a neutral wrist and forearm posture. It is the only vertical type mouse approved for staff use within UC Berkeley and for sale in the campus store.


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I agree that more buttons are not necessary, and that
by Kiddpeat / January 29, 2008 3:48 AM PST

the choice of OS is not a huge deal. Either one will enable you to do whatever job you need to do.

My post really wasn't primarily directed at the brand or the OS. While I agree that "more buttons" on a mouse are not necessary, when one goes further and maintains that "more buttons" are undesirable, I think that we have passed into an area where that person simply does not understand the advantages of the technology. Unfortunately, in my view, Apple has continued to consciously be the one button mouse company, while other manufacturers produce mostly Windows computers with multi-button mouses (I am continuing to see new Apple machines that are outfitted with the one button mouse). Thus, any attempt to explore the advantages or disadvantages gets rather quickly mired in the OS debate.

Let's consider an example. Let's say I am browsing the net. When I do, my usual practice is to use the mouse for every operation. I will click on a link, for example, which takes me to a second page. My mouse may be positioned at the bottom of the screen. As I read the page, I need to scroll down. The mouse does not move. I simply turn the scroll wheel. If I want to copy something, I left click and drag. Then I right click (a context menu pops up), I move the mouse slightly and left click on copy. Similarly, if I want to insert a copied item, I right click at the point of insertion, the context menu pops up, and I click on paste. The mouse barely moves. When I want to return to the previous page, a slight press of the thumb takes me back. The mouse does not move.

My experience with a Mac suggests that most of that is not possible with its one button mouse. I have to either constantly reach for the keyboard, or move the mouse all over the screen to navigate the pages.

That, IMCO, is a HUGE advantage for a multi-button mouse. Thus, if someone says there is no advantage, I am forced to conclude that they do not understand. That means that they really do not understand an environment built to take advanatage of the mouse technology. They may well use that environment, but simply using something does not confer understanding.

I have been floored recently by statements from very knowledgeable people about Windows technology. At least in those cases, they don't understand perfectly at all. They only know what someone has told them somewhere in the distant past. I think that is quite common within the Mac circles that I am familiar with.

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I don't know if Mac still ships with one button mice...
by EdH / January 29, 2008 7:44 AM PST

but it really doesn't matter. I believe studies have shown that the majority of users never use the right button anyway regardless of platform. Very few people use their mouse to surf the web as you do; in fact I doubt that very many know you can use the mouse to go back and forward or Reload pages on the web. It's a moot point, since Macs have supported multi-button mice for years.

In my opinion, choosing things from menus is less efficient than pointing and clicking or using the keyboard. Same with Copying, Cutting, Pasting, Saving, etc. I have the keyboard right here at hand, as most people do, so there's no "reaching" involved.

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EdH, I sent back a post to you?
by taboma / January 29, 2008 12:52 PM PST

?and Angeline was saying WHOO!
I had meant to say my view was directed to the group that thinks the PC or Mac OS is better. Not at all directed to you in any way.
My appologies to you. Sorry for that. I looked back at my post and thought? OH NO! Made a mistake on that post!


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by WOODS-HICK / January 29, 2008 9:37 AM PST

would this resolve the issue? I never used a mac but if you need multi-button; here's two:

Optical Mouse

System Requirements

o Windows

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Apple has not shipped a single button mouse for years now.
by grimgraphix / January 30, 2008 2:39 AM PST
"I am continuing to see new Apple machines that are outfitted with the one button mouse

To reckon back to days of yore...

Apple's multi-button mouse called "Mighty Mouse" shipped the summer of 2005. Since that time, all updated models of apple computers since that time have also included the mighty mouse.

I will agree with you that a multi-button mouse is handier than a single button mouse for desk top purposes. I might disagree with you when it comes to laptop computers and their built in track pad/button arrangement. Being right handed, I find using a 2 button arrangement in close proximity to a track pad not only annoying(from clicking the wrong button by accident), but also causing hand fatigue to occur much more rapidly than with the single button/track pad assembly found on apple laptops. To use your example, on an apple track pad/button arrangement, I only have to move my index finger and put slight pressure on the side of my thumb to click the button... other than that, my hand and wrist never needs to move. With the 2 button arrangement, I am constantly having to rearrange my arm position or even use 2 hands to do what should only take one (with a conventional multi-button mouse).

For doing those activities that are ideally suited to simple commands a multi-button mouse does offer an advantage. That is why many apple users for years, have added multi-button mice to their machines when the OS began to support it - which has been for the total life of OSX.

I have been floored recently by statements from very knowledgeable people about Windows technology. At least in those cases, they don't understand perfectly at all. They only know what someone has told them somewhere in the distant past. I think that is quite common within the Mac circles that I am familiar with.

As EdH has pointed out, in his opinion most mac users are better prepared to take advantage of the intricacies of windows technology than vice versa. I have also found this to be true. Most "computer professional" mac users are quite capable of getting a job done on either platform just like most people who drive a car with a manual transmission can also drive an automatic. The point of driving a car is to get from one location to another... the point of using a computer is most often to get a job done, or to be educated and entertained. Both apples and windows PCs get that done. Past that, it comes down to personal preferences. I think the "mac circles" that you are familiar with would readily admit this if asked.
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Chuckle. Well, I guess I'm using mirages on a daily basis.
by Kiddpeat / January 30, 2008 8:31 AM PST

Somehow we've got new machines with single button mice.

I guess they must have been special ordered just for our school. Yah, right!

When the reality contradicts the press release, I go for the reality.

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The Mighty Mouse might LOOK like a one button...
by EdH / January 30, 2008 9:28 AM PST
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Well, it's not unusual for a school...
by grimgraphix / January 30, 2008 11:36 AM PST

... to save a buck by using older equipment. They may well have set aside the new mice in favor of wearing out the older ones or, they may have got a deal from the distributor by not getting the new mice at all. If this is the case, and your school is charging you a premium tuition justified in part on the fact they have "new" equipment, then you may well be within your right to ask for a partial fee reimbursement. You are using intel based duo core processors in the macs at school, are you not? Operating system at least 10.4.11 Tiger or the brand new 10.5.2 Leopard, correct?

Maybe the design schools in the Chicago area are a bit slower in upgrading their equipment when compared to WV... Happy
It's actually not unusual for colleges to concentrate on software upgrades every year and leave the hardware upgrades for every 2, 3, and even 4 years, as the budget allows.

Anyway... since you seem determined to believe that apple still ships single button mice with their new computers, I offer a link to the apple store so you can double check for yourself. THE APPLE STORE. I can't even find a replacement single button mouse in the mouse section of the store. Keep in mind that the Mighty Mouse may look like a single button mouse because it does not use separate buttons on the top of the mouse. You can tell if you are using one by the rubber scroll wheel on the top of the mouse. If you have one but still can not use the multiple button option then go to your system preferences and there, activate and assign the button functions.

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Well, it's not unusual for a school...
by taboma / January 30, 2008 5:38 PM PST
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Apple has not shipped a single button mouse for years now.
by taboma / January 30, 2008 4:44 PM PST

Grim. All of our Mac Minis purchased by our company were shipped in late 2006. All came with a single click scroll mouse.
Maybe on a huge bulk order the price was reduced and shipped out with a single click/scroll mouse.

At the Genius Bar at the Apple Store, all they use is a single click with a scroll. I was there at the Genius Bar last November.
Wonder why no other mouse??

In 2006 our company purchased about 100 Quark Software programs V6.2 from Quark with the understanding we will be upgraded this spring to Quark V-7.
That is coming.
I wonder how good the Mighty Mouse is?? Does it fly?
I liked that cartoon as a kid.

Oh, well, back to my one button clicker.
I must be missing out of technology with a one-button mouse.
What am I missing out of? Squeeze technology? I don't think so.
I still like my one button optical mouse. Serves me well.

Now, where was that command to do kerning and tracking on my mouse?
Where is base-line-shift? How do I increase or decrease an image size by 5% with a mouse?
Oh, I wish I had a six-click mouse. Maybe it would teach me something that I forgot. I do suffer from CRS!
See what I am missing out from not using a six-button mouse!

Rememer this??

The PC mouse inventor. Douglas C. Englebert.
I find this amazing.





Anyone who likes my One Button Click Club Doc, just print it out, sign it and frame it for your office wall. I love it and in time, you will too!
I kept it old looking for a purpose.
Here is the Doc and link.


Grim, print it out for your kids. :

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I wouldn't know, because I can't
by Angeline Booher / January 27, 2008 12:17 AM PST

...... touch type.

But I didn't know where those "hot keys" on my Dell keyboard lurked, so I sometimes lost stiff I was working on,

Wile shopping for a new machine, I think I noticed that the new keyboards were "multimedia". I don't know if that meant that some of the media programs could be accessed/run from those keys or not.

Sure, I have a sheet that shows what the different keys on my keyboard can do. If I ever wanted to use them, I'd have to learn how to touch type first, then gain some decent speed at it. Happy

For all I know, it could be easier and quicker for certain work tasks to use the keyboard in a Mac as it is for those to use those special keys in a Windows keyboard,

Speakeasy Moderator

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re: touch type
by WOODS-HICK / January 27, 2008 12:30 AM PST

I was taught in my 1st semester, freshman year high school. looking back, since it was an all-boys school, one reason it was taught in advanced classes: the looming computer age. after that one semester I could type 45-50 wpm. using the slightly different computer keyboard plus less usage; I struggle comfortably at 20-25 wpm. but I do not care. pass/fail has lost its' significance.

there are many tutorials available for free on the web.

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