And you think airline legroom is bad NOW?

... why not? Save on fuel and good for the environment after all!

Evie

They will squeeze in more people, so the weight will be more, thus no fuel savings.

... just using a 727, I couldn't find the weight of the plane itself, but gross weight is around 190,000 lbs and they list under 200 passengers in that weight. Even assuming a 200 lb average weight, that's 40000 lb max. If you can fit 300 passengers that's 20,000 lbs more. The passenger weight represents about 20% of the airplane weight (unless I messed up my estimates). The major need for commuter planes is to get commuters from A to B. More passengers per plane, fewer planes. Another way to look at it is that each passenger on a 200 passenger flight requires pushing 9500 worth of tin and cargo for the ride (I wish I could find the weight of the tin part there as that is a constant). If the same size plane fits just 50 more passengers, that's down to 7600 lbs. It's kinda like carpooling with airplanes. Having 4 passengers in my car uses more fuel than having 1 passenger. But not 4X as much because most of the fuel goes to move the weight of the vehicle, and certainly a lot less than 2 passengers in 2 cars.

Evie

you would be straped in.
trains your lucky to hold on to a strap

Leg fatigue and even deep vein thrombosis are real problems, and it would be excruciating for folks with arthritis.

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... I doubt it would be a practical for long flights. It is not unheard of to stand for an hour or so on a train.

Why not just build the aircraft with tubes to lay in instead of standing. Like some Hotels in Japan.

George

... a system where you strapped in vertically and were then slid somehow into horizontal position might be more comfortable. OTOH, I *think* I might feel less claustrophobic standing up than stacked and racked!

Evie

... so I'm not sure what their boarding procedures are, etc. Taking a step back, I'm not sure it would really make much of a difference here unless boarding could be expidited. As much of a PITA as driving is, by the time you get to the airport (ride or park), check in, go through screening, board, fly, get picked up or rent vehicle, you don't save much on either time or stress to fly vs. driving for the short flights where ''standing'' would even be practicle.

High speed trains would be good. They've been talking about one forever. Why it can't be done from Boston to DC (and I'm not as familiar with other business ''corridors'' but this one is a huge metro short-commute one with which I'm familiar) does baffle me.

Evie

Why is the cost so high? Take Acela express, between NY-Boston or NY-D.C. It costs more than an airplane (shuttle) ride.

... even taking Greyhound costs more than a plane trip most of the time. They've been big on the new high speed ferrys that go from LI to CT shorepoints, but the fares are pretty high on those too.

I think it would be neat if they could convert some existing train tracks to giant conveyer belts one could hook your car up to and be taken wherever you wanted! Then you "disengage" and off you go the rest of the way to your destination

We used to take Amtrak for family vacations to Florida. Mostly because my parents are no fans of flying, but also because at the time the rates were cheaper than flying, we could get slumber cars (neat fun for kids!) and the food in the dining car was actually pretty decent! Last time I looked into the cost of Amtrak I wondered why ANYONE ever uses them!

Evie

It takes me 5 hours door to door from Long Island to wash. D.C.
The same train ride, door to door, would also be about 5 hours.
Driving will cost me about $100 of gas (in today's environment) as opposed to an average of $160 r/t train ride (not taking into account to and from the station).
More than one person in the car, it gets even cheaper. So, people will drive as long as mass transit will cost so much.

My major road trips involve going to visit my sister who lives west of Philly. It's about a 5 hour trip from my end of CT if I get a straight shot (no traffic), but it's taken me up to 8 hours if I hit "normal" traffic. Plus the tolls are no small potatoes either. STILL, with all that hassle, time, etc., there's NO viable train alternative.

Of course the other major trips are usually to Canada to visit my hubby's side of the family. We flew to Toronto once, but that's too expensive to make it worthwhile even though the drive is ~9 hours. Timewise there wasn't that much savings by the time you get to and from the airports, baggage check/pickup and going through security. Lately we've been driving to somewhere near Syracuse, get a bargain hotel for the night then drive the rest of the way. We must be getting old Used to be we would go up for special weekends, drive up Friday night and return on Sunday. That is just too much anymore, so we go less, but make a long weekend out of it.

Last summer we flew to Detroit to go to Windsor -- driving just too long. It takes that long a trip to even make flying worth it for us, because we're very attached to having a vehicle we can drive at our destination. We flew Spirit which has a great rate for Detroit out of LaGuardia. Convenient to have folks that live close enough to park our car at their home and get a lift and pickup from the airport!

Evie

Just for grins I checked the fares with Amtrak and Delta Airlines.
Penn Station in New York to Union Station in D.C. one way $84 normal passenger train, $168 Accela train.
Via air with Delta one way JFK to DCA (Reagan- formerly National) $579.60 coach. (ouch!)

That cost more than my round trip for me & Jim to New Hampshire last year And that was from AZ!!

Glenda, bear in mind I just went to their web sites and priced an ASAP fare. They charge thru the nose for such. I dare say that you could do much better with a little planning.
I loved the trains in the D.C. area I commuted daily on one. AIR the price of a monthly pass from the end of the line to Union Station in D.C. was something like $289. The drive was 97 miles when I measured it, and when driving I couldn't take a nap until I arrived (grin). I once went from D.C. to Newark via train, it was extremely reasonable in fare, a comfortable ride, and thre was a car with drinks and sandwiches for sale. The only way to go, as they say.

American airlines, Evie -- they run closer to schedule, and we had no problem with our luggage, which was at the carousels by the time we got there, unlike here, where there's typically a minimum 5-10 minute wait. The one oddity is that there's no orderly waiting your turn to leave at flight's end -- everyone just makes a mad rush for the exit! OTOH, the worst flight we've ever had on a jet was on Shanghai Air -- first 737 I've ever seen with no individualized air streams; the just had (inadequate) air coming into the cabin at the top, and it was extremely oppressive. Thank goodness it was only a half-hour flight! Incdientally, they now fly exclusively Boeings and Airbusses -- no Russian planes in evidence, at least that we saw. One of these years I'll get the pictures edited to post...

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click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
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