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An Islamic Europe

"Bernard Lewis, world-famous historian and expert on Islam, predicted that Europe will become Islamic by the end of the century as a result of emigration patters and birth rates."

Of course, such a transition from a Christian continent to an Islamic one in the near future is not a hypothesis. The Netherlands, one of the smaller European countries but with one of the largest Islamic communities in Europe has been predicted to have - in less than 30 years, majority Muslim population. One can fear the day when by majority votes the Dutch queen is forced to wear the Islamic hejab in her public appearances!!

More...

It won't take long for France and Spain to follow. This is the future that Iran sees. What do you think it means for us?

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Relate that thought to............

In reply to: An Islamic Europe

.....the recent hostage situation in Iraq demanding that the the head cover law be recinded in France.

"They", with the help of our courts, overturned similar school district regulations in Oklahoma (I think it was Oklahoma).

"They", with the help of our courts, have their loud speakers blaring their 'call to prayer' in another city.

How long before UN Members will be carrying their prayer rugs with when they attend UN Meetings ?

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Europe has abandoned its historic faith.

In reply to: An Islamic Europe

It's inevitable that something will fill the vacuum.

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Re: Europe has abandoned its historic faith.

In reply to: Europe has abandoned its historic faith.

"Europe has abandoned its historic faith.


It's inevitable that something will fill the vacuum.

Posted by: Kiddpeat Posted on: 08/30/2004 7:29 PM "

No, that is illogical. It has been made clear that decades of permitted immigration from islamic countries, and the immigrants own high birtrates is the cause of the predicted result. Humor follows:

I call it religion-based continental cucolding. It has happened before, you know. In Europe, remember the Dark Ages?

Modern Europe should've thought ahead better, and developed contingency plans. Maybe we should, too!

Now, Kidpeat, what would you propose we do to prevent Muslims overunning our own country ***by birthrate***alone, if not by massive immigration and high birthrate as in Netherlands.

IDEA: increase the non-muslim population by letting gays and lesbians create real families. That'd help the domestic us/them balance.

Seriously, if it came to this strange choice for a vote, which would you rather permit by necessity: a muslim-dominant population... or more gay +families+.

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I'm surprised

In reply to: Europe has abandoned its historic faith.

I wouldn't think you would decry the fall of druid and pagan sects. But be of good cheer. Paganism is on the rebound in Europe.

Dan

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For "US"?

In reply to: An Islamic Europe

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Re: i'm so happy for you

In reply to: For "US"?

btw, when you become "the majority" do you think that would give you a little more 'spine' and that maybe you could enlighten us on your views of recent events in Iraq?

i SPECIFICALLY refer to actions by terrorist (in this case muslim) scumbags who took GREAT delight in beheading non-believing (kaffir) foreigners...

i'm sure that as one who is only too happy to 'praise allah', your 'faith in the almighty' will assure you that you ARE allowed, and possibly encouraged to find fault with your faith, and, in doing so, you will emerge an even more devout muslim....


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Re: An Islamic Europe

In reply to: An Islamic Europe

I think it means that we (humans) are Godless. Why does religion have to be the overriding thought in politics and culture? Why does that which was meant to unify and commonunlaise mankind, have to become the premise for war and hatred? Whatever happened to simply getting along and allowing our differences to enrich the mix, instead of being the catalyst for division?

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All very good questions

In reply to: Re: An Islamic Europe

Not sure of the answers but could it be that it has been taught incorrectly to our parents and they taught it incorrectly to us and we are teaching it incorrectly to our children?

Was it Chesterton who said something like "Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It's that it hasn't been tried!" ?

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Re: All very good questions

In reply to: All very good questions

No idea, but you need to substitute "Christianity" for "religion" of whatever faith. I wonder if perhaps the whole concept of religion should be outlawed as a hate crime, because the way things are headed, it surely qualifies as one?

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We can outlaw religion. As long as we don't outlaw God.

In reply to: Re: All very good questions

Then again if Bush gets four more years he may demand a "one religion" for all of the world and then there won't be any conflict, sorrow or pain and we will have peace and harmony all over the world and the lamb will lie down with the wolf. Much like in Iraq right now. Sad

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If that happened

In reply to: We can outlaw religion. As long as we don't outlaw God.

who would be its deity, and would God be outlawed as a reactionary, or a political dissident?

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God can't be outlawed. He is who is.

In reply to: If that happened

God is not man or material, he is a spirit and cannot be manipulated. No matter what, He will always rise to the top like cream in milk. Happy

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Re: God can't be outlawed. He is who is.

In reply to: God can't be outlawed. He is who is.

If god can't be manipulated what's the point of prayer?

Devil

Dan

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Re: As long as we don't outlaw God.

In reply to: We can outlaw religion. As long as we don't outlaw God.

you already did when you allowed it to be against the law to mention him/her/it at public/government/school/council events...

unless of course you subscribe to that select group of PC weirdos who say "we were just praying, and prayer has nothing to do with god"....

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Re: As long as we don't outlaw God.

In reply to: Re: As long as we don't outlaw God.

For someone who doesn't believe in God you sure talk about Him a lot. Happy

To be honest, I would like to see our entire Nation a Christian one and everyone saying prayers at all public functions and everyone faithfully following the decrees of the faith. Preferably mine. LOL

However, I have seen enough of a Theocracy to know it's not a good thing. I have seen enough of a Nation that is almost entirely of one faith, praying publicly as a nation daily and yet has no peace or harmony.

Much as I regret the necessity, I have to agree with separation of State and Church. As a matter of fact I think Jesus recommended it. He said give unto Caesar what is Caesar and give onto God what is God's.

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Re: As long as we don't outlaw God.

In reply to: Re: As long as we don't outlaw God.

To be honest, I would like to see our entire Nation a Christian one...

And what would you do about all of us that are not christians? I prefer an open-minded nation that embraces diversity and the freedom for each to follow their own heart.

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(NT) (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In reply to: Re: As long as we don't outlaw God.

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Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In reply to: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

I did and it didn't answer the question I asked. Your post mostly says that you would prefer a christian nation but you acknowledge that it can't be that way. But even in your acknowledgement you fail to remove the impression that you would prefer that everyone was christian. If you had your preference, what would you do about all of the non-christians?

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Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

Hi, Clay.

In a perfect world, all non-Christians would see the light. And so would all conservatives!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In reply to: Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In a perfect world, all non-Christians would see the light.

See what light? Christianity? Are you saying all other faiths are in the dark?

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Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In reply to: Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

Clay, Dave was being facetious.

Right, Dave?

Right? ? ?

Wink

Dan

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Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In reply to: Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

Don;t you find it interesting, that the faith he implies is the only correct one, did itself began life as a reactionary, underground, forbidden cult? Devil

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That would be a legitimate interpretation ...

In reply to: Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

Of course, I don't know if it is the one Dave intended.

Still, for most Christians with any degree of orthodoxy, the answer to your question is "yes".

One caveat, though. Most Christians also believe that it is important to separate political choices from religious ones to at least some degree. AFAIK even my most hard core conservative friends are not interested in creating a state religion even if they do want Christianity to hold a special place in American jurisprudence. I wish the Islamic fundamentalists would take a similar attitude regarding the place of religion in society.

Most orthodox Christians do believe that appropriate worship is pleasing to God and that inappropriate worship (ie: false religion, erroneous religion, or feigned religion) is not pleasing to God. In that sense, then, we hope and pray that the followers of "the prophet" (Mohammad) (and, of course, other non-Christians) will be among those who "see the light" and learn to worship God properly. Of course, whenever an orthodox Christian says that, he/she is castigated for "hate speech", but that is hardly the intent. Hatred is not an appropriate response to other religions, nor is it terribly effective as a tool for evangelism.

It should be obvious that, given these attitudes, it is important to separate church and state. After all, we do not want the state to place religious burdens on either Christians or non-Christians. We want the choice of religion to be free and uncoerced. Many in Europe would agree with that aim of uncoerced choice of religion. I should point out, though, that AFAIK there are NO countries in the Mideast that share this notion.

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Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In reply to: Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

Define perfection? That in itself is subject to the perception of the individual. Devil

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Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

In reply to: Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

Wow, Clay! Haven't you heard of concentration camps? Ghettos? Internment camps? Gulags? Get with it, man.

Dan

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Clay

In reply to: Re: (NT) When you have the time read the whole message.

I am happy to answer you but I don't want to play a week long marathon of 'pickthepostapart', ok? Happy

I said Christian because that's what I am. If I were Jewish I would have said Jewish, if Mormon I would have said Mormon. The point was making the entire nation one religion.

My response was to Jonah who suggested that I had allowed God to be outlawed in my country citing our laws of no public prayer in or on government property or gatherings, etc. So I guess we are turning into heathens .. I don't know. Speaking for myself, by the way, I would like to see public prayer being allowed, I think that's a good thing.

I tried to make the point that IF we were a nation of one religion (any religion) then everybody and anybody could pray all they wanted anywhere in public at anytime for any reason and everyone, including God, would be happy. If it were possible to bring about such unilty I would be for it.

I then pointed out howeven that concept isn't working out anywhere else. And since we are not one religion or even worship the same deity here in America than I agree that separation of church and state is the best course to take. I don't consider that outlawing God.

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Re: Clay

In reply to: Clay

Even if the whole nation were Christian, when was the last time Christians agreed on Christianity?

Most religious war opponents are different sects of the same religion.

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Isn't that what I said? It doesn't work in other Nations.

In reply to: Re: Clay

I doubt it would work here.

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Re: Clay

In reply to: Clay

You're pretty close to getting what you want. You can pray anywhere you want, whenever you want. It's the government that cannot sanction, participate in, or compel prayer.

Dan

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Re: you sure talk about Him a lot.

In reply to: Re: As long as we don't outlaw God.

izzat so? then next time you ask a question...specify who you ARE and are NOT prepared to answer them!


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