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America's credit headed for junk status by 2025

by grimgraphix / August 14, 2006 8:35 AM PDT

on Lou Dobbs tonight they reported that the US paid 325 billion dollars in interest to other nations for the money we borrowed.

The Pentagon can not account for more than 20 billion dollars it spent last year. The pentagon has failed federal audits for the past 9 years.

Oh yeah... and FEMA/Home Land Security paid for a sex change operation last year.

Our biggest creditor in the past has been Japan but soon will be China... That is Comunist china kids. The same country where we spend 200 billion dollars a year in trade.

Sleep tight! Wink

grim

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The sky will be falling real soon now.
by Kiddpeat / August 14, 2006 1:04 PM PDT

Those who focus on things to fear will be afraid.

Those who understand how systems, including economics, work, will move confidently into the future.

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Dream on, DM.
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / August 14, 2006 11:15 PM PDT

Our currency is headed for the toilet, as it's replaced as the world's reserve currency. Of course, it's already off 30% against the Euro since Bush took office... Why is it that "conservatives," while talking about fiscal responsibility, trash the nation's credit instead? It took ronald Reagan only two years to convert the US from the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation, and less than that for GW Bush to change a several trillion dollar projected surplus over 10 years into a several trillion dollar deficit. I'll give you a hint -- tax cuts for the wealthy...

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Hahahahahahaha....
by EdH / August 14, 2006 11:19 PM PDT
In reply to: Dream on, DM.

Who you takling to, oh expert economist?

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Utter nonsense
by Evie / August 15, 2006 12:42 AM PDT
In reply to: Dream on, DM.

Revenues are UP, UP, UP! More than global temperatures!!

And you were replying to KP not DM.

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(NT) (NT) Chuckle. Kind of kills the message credibility eh?
by Kiddpeat / August 15, 2006 4:03 AM PDT
In reply to: Utter nonsense
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There's that myth again, Evie.
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / August 15, 2006 1:35 PM PDT
In reply to: Utter nonsense

I guess it must be the latest trend in argument -- just state forcefully enough that black is white, and always has been, and some gullible folks will believe you. Surely you remember the "lockbox" for the surplus, during the 2000 debates? And you can look up the stats on balance of payments in any good economics text, and see them reverse sharply from far black to far red between 1981 and 1983.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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No, the myth is
by duckman / August 15, 2006 1:38 PM PDT

TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH

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That does seem to be your tactic Dave
by Evie / August 15, 2006 7:41 PM PDT

Look it up. Tax revenues are UP. The "rich" are paying MORE in taxes although the rate is lower. Continuing to claim otherwise is simply a lie. The only thing that will bring long term economic stability is to cut "entitlement" spending -- and most of the Western world is far worse off than we are in this respect.

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Tax revenues are up
by Diana Forum moderator / August 16, 2006 10:13 PM PDT

The problem is that our spending is up even more mainly because of Iraq. We went from a budget surplus to major deficits in a heartbeat.

Diana

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Iraq spending is NOT the problem
by Evie / August 16, 2006 11:14 PM PDT
In reply to: Tax revenues are up

Entitlement spending IS because there that is where the FUTURE spending is "mandatory" and where the costs are due to increase as the baby boomers get older. The projected surplus (over projected BTW) was a paper surplus. It was "gone" before Iraq was seriously contemplated.

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/fedcomp.gif

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The only entitlement spending that's a real problem
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / August 17, 2006 3:14 AM PDT

is SS and Medicare, Evie -- but they're still in surplus year-to-year! You're right, though, that Iraq isn't the biggest provblem (though it's #2); the biggest problem is the tax cuts. Tax revenues are indeed up, but they're not nearly as high as they were projected to be in 2000, thanks to GWB's handouts to the wealthy. You folks object to small handouts to the poor (or even paying a living wage to the working poor), but see nothing wrong in huge handouts to the wealthy. Sheesh!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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The tax cuts have INCREASED tax revenues.
by Evie / August 17, 2006 3:33 AM PDT

Only a fool would continue to argue that tax RATE cuts are a cause of any deficits.

Since the "rich" have actually paid MORE in taxes your characterization of the rate cuts as some sort of handout if bizarrely distorted and demonstrates either an ignorance of facts or a deliberate attempt to ignore them.

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We never acheived a budget surplus. On top of that,
by Kiddpeat / August 17, 2006 12:49 AM PDT
In reply to: Tax revenues are up

when Bush took office, the economy was sinking into recession. It needed a stimulus, and Bush led the way on providing it. Short of the increased revenue the stimulus provided, the deficit would have increased further.

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Did DM make a post??
by Glenda / August 15, 2006 2:00 AM PDT
In reply to: Dream on, DM.

I see a reply to KP did I miss something here???

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Did you read any of the posts?
by duckman / August 15, 2006 1:38 PM PDT
In reply to: Dream on, DM.

Who are you replying to?

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Dave, don't you know its all part...
by null. / August 16, 2006 4:22 PM PDT
In reply to: Dream on, DM.

... of the vast right wing conspiracy

this part goes like this
spend spend spend
start ww3 with the innocent muslim nations of the middle east
win the war
take over those countries
enslave the people
sell oil to erase the debt

we could do this in say 10 years I think.

Don Erickson

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You left out the part ...
by Evie / August 16, 2006 11:15 PM PDT

... about the Afghanistan pipeline! LOL

Evie Happy

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We're screwed!
by EdH / August 14, 2006 9:25 PM PDT

But of course, according to some here we'll all be dead from bird flu and global warming long before 2025 anyway, so why worry?

China is rapidly backing away from communism, realizing that it is a failed philosophy. They will be a major player in the future but face enormous challenges as they transition to a modern and hopefully free society.

I would not sell the US short. We still have many advantages. A lot can (and will) happen in 19 years.

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Chicken Little rides again!
by Evie / August 15, 2006 12:06 AM PDT

Remember when Japan was investing in the US and we were all being told Japan would buy out the US?

While I'm uneasy in some respects about the US/China relationship (political and economic), I do believe there is some wisdom to deterrant factor of this level of economic interdependence. China has a stake in the continued economic stability of the US. That, as Martha would say, is a *good thing*.

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deterrant factor of this level of economic interdependence.
by JP Bill / August 15, 2006 12:47 AM PDT

No country would ever attack a country that owes it billions of dollars.

Instead of spending money on defense, get in debt to potential enemies, and they'll never attack.

Good plan.

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That is what is happening.
by EdH / August 15, 2006 12:57 AM PDT

The conflict now is between the Functional Core (modern civilized nations) and the Non-Integrating Gap (dysfunctiomnal third-world nations), to use Thomas PM Barnett's terms. Connectivity is the "good thing".

Welcome to the future.

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So when do the "Roller Ball" leagues start up?
by grimgraphix / August 15, 2006 1:07 AM PDT
Wink
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(NT) (NT) That made so much sense.
by EdH / August 15, 2006 1:11 AM PDT
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Rollerball
by grimgraphix / August 15, 2006 1:36 AM PDT

Old James Caan movie about global economics and bread/circuses?

LINK

grim

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(NT) (NT) Yes, I got it.
by EdH / August 15, 2006 1:37 AM PDT
In reply to: Rollerball
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Any idea what he meant by that?
by Kiddpeat / August 15, 2006 4:14 AM PDT

Scratching my head.

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In the movie Rollerball governments have been replaced by...
by EdH / August 15, 2006 4:19 AM PDT

international corporations which control every aspect of citizens' lives, etc. It's interesting and entertaining, but not very realistic. Not at all what Barnett is talking about.

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Doo do doo do. I guess it's falling somewhere else as well.
by Kiddpeat / August 15, 2006 4:22 AM PDT

The sky that is.

Devil

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I realize it's not what Barnett was discussing
by grimgraphix / August 15, 2006 4:31 AM PDT

Thank you very much...

Yet after the struggle that he anticipates is over, the importance of national identities may very well be eclipsed by global market interests instead. After all, the agenda of the present administration is to further the interests of an open market and globalized economy is it not?

grim

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I look forward to national governments weakening...
by EdH / August 15, 2006 5:01 AM PDT

and fading away. But they won't go easily. It probably won't happen in my lifetime.

What the Bush Administration wants is not that important; there's no stopping globalization.

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