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America...............Haves and have nots?

by JP Bill / March 15, 2014 11:49 PM PDT
Food pantries on the rise at US college campuses as students struggle with increasing expenses

STONY BROOK, N.Y. - With the cost of a public education up 27 per cent in the past five years, some students are being forced to choose between eating and learning.

That's why many colleges have established their own food pantries. A group called the College and University Food Bank Alliance says about 50 member food banks have sprung up on campuses across the country, most of them in the last few years.

Stony Brook University on Long Island started a food pantry last fall, handing out bags of staples such as pasta, fruit, vegetables, tuna and breakfast bars.


Tufts University offers financial aid for students' year off

BOSTON (Reuters) - Tufts University will launch a program next autumn to help cash-strapped students take a year off to travel and perform public service before starting their undergraduate classes.

The program puts Massachusetts-based Tufts among a handful of American colleges offering to pay for a 'gap year' to explore the world and absorb different cultures after high school, a tradition that is more common in Europe.


"strapped for cash"? Go on a trip, we'll pay.

One group is "liberal" and they want the trip...the other group is "conservative" and they want the food?

Or the other way around...I can never figure out which side wants which.
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Both states are
by TONI H / March 16, 2014 1:37 AM PDT

consistently liberal so why would you think only the conservative group wants the food?

As long as the federal government, now running the student loan program exclusively, and no longer banks issuing the loans, you will continue to see the excessively rising costs at the colleges....the money to run them is now guaranteed. Why do you continue to refuse to see the true financial situation with this administration?

As for Tufts......and more than likely other liberal American colleges......it's cheaper for them to pay the students to not show up for a year than it is to house them. Professors are paid a salary and will be paid no matter how many or how few the number of students. Isn't union-based tenure policies wonderful? (For everyone BUT the students)

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Interesting reading about teacher benefits plans
by Steven Haninger / March 16, 2014 3:33 AM PDT
In reply to: Both states are
Ohio teacher's retirement plan wants to shore up pension fund by taking money from healthcare contributions

Hmmm...taking money from one pocket to make up for the shortage in another pocket? Great idea, huh?

But here's where I almost flipped...and from the article;

"The retirement system serves more than 480,000 active, inactive and retired teachers and college and university professors. Last year, it paid $6.5 billion in benefits to about 149,000 retired educators."

I hope my calculator is broken because it says that amounts to and average of nearly $44000. per year per retiree. Translate that into an hourly wage and it becomes about $21 and hour based on a 40 hour non-working week over a full year. Not too shabby, IMO. Your tax dollars at work?...or do I mean at rest. Wink
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Pension Funds
by James Denison / March 17, 2014 1:33 AM PDT

They benefit the ones who control those funds more than those who are supposed to be served by the fund.

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RE: why would you think only the conservative group
by JP Bill / March 16, 2014 4:34 AM PDT
In reply to: Both states are
why would you think only the conservative group wants the food?

I thought conservative meant practical..you know...like it's more important to have a full belly than to go on a trip? Don't be wasting money.

I guess you didn't notice...I did say I can never figure out which side wants which. I used Italics for MY quotes IN THIS POST...the next post I make I may change my format...so be on your toes.

50 member food banks have sprung up on campuses across the country,

As for Tufts......and more than likely other liberal American colleges..

Just so we don't understand each other....You can assume that liberal colleges would send people on trips. and you question why I would assume conservative groups would want food.

BTW

"Just so we don't understand each other" Is NOT a typo.

You don't have access to a book or some source that details what conservatives and liberals want when it comes to food an trips do you?
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No more than you do with YOUR assumptions
by TONI H / March 16, 2014 4:56 AM PDT

My main point was and still is that as long as student loans are guaranteed by the government, and professor's salaries are guaranteed no matter how few or many students show up, the colleges will keep increasing their tuition rates. That has nothing to do with the 'haves and the have nots'. It's just cheaper for the schools to decide to tell the kids "take a vacation on us" than it is to house them.

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I didn't see the "C" or "L" word mentioned
by Steven Haninger / March 16, 2014 6:21 AM PDT

nor a political label attached to either group of students. They're in school and I'd hope they've not yet fallen into that rat trap. It wasn't that long ago that we were hearing that student's primary dilemma was what to give up in order to afford birth control. Now we add sabbaticals and nutrition into their worries? Of course it's nearly Spring now so many will be trying to afford to get to places like Ft. Lauderdale where gorging on food and engaging in activities that require birth control will weigh heavily on their minds. Tough life they have.

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RE: They're in school
by JP Bill / March 16, 2014 6:39 AM PDT

some are being paid to stay out of school.

and they shall be known as "liberals"

Not MY words....

and more than likely other liberal American colleges......it's cheaper for them to pay the students to not show up for a year than it is to house them. Professors are paid a salary and will be paid no matter how many or how few the number of students. Isn't union-based tenure policies wonderful? (For everyone BUT the students)

underlining is MINE for EMPHASIS.

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Yes, I will label them liberals
by TONI H / March 16, 2014 6:44 AM PDT
In reply to: RE: They're in school

IF they take the vacation offered up by the liberal elites running the schools instead of using the brain that supposedly got them into the school in the first place and stay put to get that education.

You still haven't responded......what has any of this got to do with your topic line of "America....haves and have nots"?

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RE: what has any of this
by JP Bill / March 16, 2014 6:54 AM PDT

what has any of this got to do with your topic line of "America....haves and have nots"?


some have to do without food to go to an American college.

some DON'T have to do without food to go to an American college.

Does that satisfy you?

have...have not...2 classes of citizens...one does without food for education the other does without trips to Europe and doesn't get the change to eat Pate de fois Gras and Coquilles Saint-Jacques.

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Can't give up food to go to any college or
by Steven Haninger / March 16, 2014 7:09 AM PDT

you die.

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Is that REALLY your definition
by TONI H / March 16, 2014 7:36 AM PDT

of the 'haves and the have nots'? Good grief......

Most liberals see the 'haves' as those being able to afford to go to college on the parent's money (which can also afford for them to go to Europe without the college paying for it).

As for two classes of citizens.....thanks to BO, HE has single handedly made sure we have many more than two now. Where would YOU fit in?

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RE: Where would YOU fit in?
by JP Bill / March 16, 2014 12:40 PM PDT

I'm doing quite well thank you very much, as I've stated before, I classify myself as a have...I have everything I really need, and somethings I really don't need.

As for two classes of citizens.....thanks to BO, HE has single handedly made sure we have many more

(1)haves...(2)have nots....(3)corporate haves...(4)defense spending haves...(5)?

I recall you thought that people get used to living with less if they are given less, something about not needing an increase in the cost of living adjustment.

Two years ago, Social Security benefits were frozen....no COLA....seniors adjusted and did okay.

BTW according to you they were frozen in 2010...Wasn't Obama President then?

And as Tony Soprano would say "How YOU doing?"

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Yes, the COLA was
by TONI H / March 16, 2014 8:58 PM PDT

frozen for the first two years of BO's administration........and seniors adjusted, including me.

The OWS protestors believed they were in the 'have nots' category.....just as the Sandra Flukes' types do.....they aren't happy with their own station in life (which most have CHOSEN to stay in). Evidently YOU are happy with what you 'have', and have also chosen to not go further up the ladder. A large number of those who believe they are a 'have not' have become convinced that it's someone else's fault that they aren't a 'have' and with the encouragement of big government believe they are 'entitled' to take from the 'haves' in order to move into that group without earning it themselves.

Your list of 'haves' and 'have nots' isn't realistic because corporations and defense are not 'citizens' by class. (And don't give me the Romney quote of 'corporations are people' since you already know what I meant by 'classes of citizens'.....if you really don't know what I meant, then I'll explain further to clarify it for you.)

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They aren't "people"
by JP Bill / March 16, 2014 9:32 PM PDT
In reply to: Yes, the COLA was

yet they receive money like "people"...

people get taxpayers money

Corporate welfare...= taxpayers money

Defense spending....= taxpayers money

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Conservative Students, who generally come from well heeled
by Rob_Boyter / March 16, 2014 4:41 PM PDT

backgrounds don't need help eating, or travelling. I bet the assistance goes primarily to poorer students, and thus predominantly liberal students.

I remember picking Meg up from the airport with one of her students, and I never saw such an accumulation of technology in one place, a clearly top end laptop, an expensive Nikon camera a large micro sound system from Denon, a 60 Gig iPod and who knows whatever else. Two bags full after her time on Cyprus doing the field study for 4 weeks. Meg had one bag a thin iPod and a Nikon camera stolen the next year. Meg comes from a very wealthy Conservative family here and inherited in excess of a Millon dollars as did her brother and sister and her nephew, but she's the breakaway of the group, supporting the Liberal and New Democratic Party (Social Democrats).

I loved her parents, quite literally. We could talk politics without rancour, and Bill was the most honest princled man I think I have ever met. Despite being one of the leading partners in his law firm, as his participation diminished with age he reduced his take from the firm. None of the other partners did that, and there was a fairly substantial barney over the issue of inactive partners sucking the firm dry, with Bill on the side of the juniors.

Rob

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I don't believe
by TONI H / March 16, 2014 9:05 PM PDT

for even one minute your statement that "

Conservative Students, who generally come from well heeled backgrounds don't need help eating, or travelling."

I've found, over the years, that conservative students believe more in self reliance and DON'T come from well-heeled backgrounds. If that were actually true, far more of our colleges themselves would be conservative rather than the overwhelming liberal attitudes across this entire country. A large majority of the professors are also very liberal and have been for at the very least the last sixty years. Being a conservative student at a liberal college is like being gay in the military.....most 'stay in the closet' in order to make sure they get the grades they need. Professors here are very intimidating when it comes to their teachings and grade accordingly.

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Well, that was how it was when I was in University.
by Rob_Boyter / March 17, 2014 7:31 AM PDT
In reply to: I don't believe

I'd grown up knowing we were well off, but I'd never met such a concentration of enormously wealthy snotty arrogant d*ck wads all in one place all of them sharing the same sense of entitlement to the best life could offer and contemptuous of those of us who weren't like that. That's not envy. I didn't envy them. They were soulless, heartless, arrogant, over-privileged takers of the George W. Bush class who would never struggle for anything in their lives. They didn't have to attend class, they could have someone else do it for them, and many did. Some grad students made their living doing it for them and writing their essays as well. You could generally pick out the well heeled Preppy Conservatives at a hundred yards by their clothes, the ones who drove brand new sports cars and went on incredible vacations both in summer and during the year (isn't it wonderful when you don't really have to attend class). That's why Study Week in February was always called Ski Week, even though more people went south to the beach than went skiing.

I wasn't poor by any means, but I couldn't afford vacations, and I worked every summer and saved my money to help with tuition and living expenses. I never had a car as an undergraduate, but lived in the cheapest places I could find within walking distance of the University to save money for records and food. Records and concerts were my indulgence in Uni as the Brits call it. And by Junior year I was working in the library at least one and sometimes 2 evenings a week. We middle class kids were looked down on, insulted regularly and were excluded from the Richie Rich crowd, not that we had anything in common with them anyway. And curiously, they were always the kids who had some clever dodge to avoid the Draft as well. The summer of graduation I showed up for induction with a copy of my medical file from my doctor, going back to the age of 1yr. Eczema, allergies, severe asthma, but they still made me run around the block to see if I could do it. I couldn't. I had to stop just past 3/4 of the way having tightened up with Exercise Induced Asthma which I treated with the inhaler I had shown them at the beginning. I'd been using an inhaler from 1958 in grade school.

Mort Campbell who later changed his name back to Kamel got student loans for a total of 4 years by lying about his family's income and played the stock market, until the loan came due to begin payments about 6 months after graduation, when he paid the whole of it back interest free, and pocketed roughly the same amount or more. His parents paid his bills in University, and he became a doctor two years later. We were never friends, but we bumped into one another periodically. Another well heeled Republican with his eye on the main chance, who prospered on a student loan meant for the less well off. In other words he denied a place at University to some qualified student, by taking up one of the relatively limited student loan spots in order to line his own pockets. He didn't care about what he'd done in the slightest. I remember being struck dumb by his arrogant selfish fraud and the very frank boastful way he talked about it even though I was one of the stovepipe jeans and work boots crowd which was the uniform of the liberal/radical crowd in University.

Only a portion of the Arts Faculty and its students were liberal, not the University as a whole and that remains true to this day. You couldn't find many in any of the Business programes, or Economics or Finance or Medicine or Dentistry, or Law. though that last one was breached beginning around 1966-7.

You're not likely to believe that either since it runs counter to your preconceptions, but it's the truth, and it was true for every other middle class kid University too. Some people decided to mimic the conservatives since they seemed to "know it all" The rest of us despised the preppy pi$$-ants and their snotty snooty parents too, always applying pressure on the faculties to up junior's grades and threatening a law suit, but that was SOP for that class of people, the class with lawyers on permanent retainer. The real Takers in society. Born on Third Base and determined to steal Home by any means no matter how underhanded.

Why the hell do you think Radicals were so Radical and angry? Most of them came from loving caring homes, they didn't bring the anger with them, they developed it when confronted with the privileged elite in its newly hatched stage at University. It did no good to say, "The predominant group of students at University are loathsome sc*m bags who will cheat anybody and think they own the world", so we got upset about the War, and social injustice and the excessive power of corporations in the hope that we could create some sort of change to ameliorate it. We couldn't achieve Jack Sh*t but the effort was admirable for the most part. For every Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn there were tens of thousands of students beaten black and blue by police enjoying their power and authority, but we went back the next week or the week after that after we'd healed up, trying to make America a fairer freer place for everyone, not just for wealthy white people. We failed sadly, but we tried, and I'm still glad to have been part of it.

I have never envied anyone in my life. I may have wished for greater financial success, but I love the life I've lived the music I've heard and seen, the people I've known and still know and the places I've been. The only regret I have is to have chosen the woman I chose, and she only grew sour toward the end. More than anything, I love my son, who is currently in Business Administration !!! but who is still a wonderfully bright handsome exceedingly capable young man for whom I hope great good things and success. Please note I don't wish for him to have no troubles or an easy time, I wish him the very best in surmounting those troubles and difficulties. And I hope that his lovely girl friend sticks by him and that they have a good life.

Now if that sounds like envy to you, you need your eyes and your ears checked.

BTW, thank you, Toni and James, for stimulating me to think about all of this and actually figure out what it is I actually feel about it and why.

Rob

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You and I are the same age
by TONI H / March 17, 2014 8:48 AM PDT

and yet we each saw 'the other elite side' from completely polar opposite ends. Everything you just described is how I, as a conservative (didn't realize I was one until a little later in life), saw as liberal elites looking down their noses at me instead. As for the radicals....I saw them still as liberals who believed they were 'entitled' to even more and were prepared to do whatever they wanted to get/take that.

You talk about how " In other words he denied a place at University to some qualified student, by taking up one of the relatively limited student loan spots in order to line his own pockets." And yet the very same thing happened with the black movement and universities being pressured into bumping qualified whites because they had a 'black quota' to fulfill. Why aren't you also upset about that reverse discrimination since it is still going on fifty years later?

Do you deny that most universities in the States today ARE very leftist/liberal and that most professors teach in that direction and intimidate conservative students by holding their grades over their heads? Because, whether you wish to believe that or not, it's what has been happening for a very long time now.

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Less state funds, this is what happens
by Willy / March 17, 2014 12:33 AM PDT

I heard the Suze Orman show the other night and she offered that "student loans" are the worst loan you can have. Not only that but the loan can't be forgiven or bankruptcy out so it hangs on until you pay it off. These aren't small amounts either as from other sources they can amount to a small house amt.. In other words, students become so strapped for funds that they get into loans and any funds to school are sucked up too quickly. That includes the cost-of-living as well whether it be food, gas, utilities, or housing, etc.. This in on top of the actual school costs if they live off campus or locally. It needn't be a big name college either as comm. tech. college will also drain funds just as fast.

I'm not surprised that food banks crop-up as one is here locally and supplies the basics. This is for students alone, which may also be seen as the real damage done by lost jobs, exporting jobs or continued robot tech. plants and what have you. The idea of having a job after you graduate isn't a guarantee anymore as times are tough far longer and that's in a good economy. Young college grads then enter the workforce and are burdened by the student and now real living expenses to include anything family related. I like exclude the lucky ones, but I'm sure those are low numbers. I recall when having IT under your belt or educated got you int the top levels but now is so common its no longer so and demeaning when salary is offered compared to the old days. -----Willy Happy

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I just read this article
by JP Bill / March 17, 2014 12:54 AM PDT
How America's low-wage workers are struggling to join the middle class

WASHINGTON — For years, many Americans followed a simple career path: Land an entry-level job. Accept a modest wage. Gain skills. Leave eventually for a better-paying job.

The workers benefited, and so did lower-wage retailers such as Wal-Mart: When its staffers left for better-paying jobs, they could spend more at its stores. And the U.S. economy gained, too, because more consumer spending fueled growth.

Not so much anymore. Since the Great Recession began in 2007, that path has narrowed because many of the next-tier jobs no longer exist. That means more lower-wage workers have to stay put. The resulting bottleneck is helping widen a gap between the richest Americans and everyone else.
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