General discussion

A question of credibility for Obama?

He ran on a campaign of negotiating with world heads and being a bully like Bush was accused of being. He ran as a 'unifier' rather than a 'divider' like Bush was accused of being.

Since this health care bill and the vote last night proved without a doubt that he was unable to or unwilling to work with the opposition (Republicans) without using Chicago politics in order to get what he wanted, and since this process was being watched by world heads, doesn't this send a message to those world heads that if you don't go along with what Obama wants, he will NOT negotiate in good faith with any of them, including Israel?

This is the ONLY 'business' that Obama has been able to successfully get into place since he took office....and the ONLY way he was able to do it was to cut backdoor deals and via threats to all of his own party that opposed him. I think this gravely diminishes his credibility of being a successful negotiator with any world heads, and why most aren't taking him seriously enough to be worried about consequences. No wonder Iran is laughing in his face.


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RE: being a bully

I seem to recall fears of him "giving away the ranch"

he's a weak bully?

ONLY business?...lots of people seem to think it was quite a feat.

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I think world leaders....

...quit taking him seriously some time ago.

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RE: quit taking him seriously some time ago.

Did it ever enter your mind that perhaps times are changing and Obama just happened to be President?

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I can't remember when a president exhibited the same

behavior after taking office that he'd promised during the campaign. Such is why I don't hang on every word a candidate speaks with the expectation of follow through. I believe it's become expected by the two major parties that winning at any cost is the first priority. It is hoped by them that promises that cannot be kept will be forgotten and that apologies will be sufficient for those which are remembered.

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How could an apologist for America's arrogance who bows to everyone have credibility

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From the Wall Street Journal

A November 2009 issue:

Personally I thought that stabilizing the 20 largest banks instead without federalizing them was cool.

The HIRE Act makes sense. Tax breaks for businesses that hire.

Charging pay discrimination is now easier because of the LIlly Ledbetter Act.

The electronic medical system is underway.

There is now an on-line Q & A with the administration, and a White House blog

I was appalled when our friends were told that we could go without them just fine, And how our warriors were sent in without being properly equipped.

This does not exactly put me on the mood to dices credibility.


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Your last line
"We're sorry what happened Mrs. Lincoln but tell us,did you enjoy the play"?

Now that sounds like the media of any stripe, left, right, blog, or conglomerate, asking someone how they feel while their house burns down or their kid is being hauled off in a body bag.

All the news that isn't news and isn't fit to see all the time.
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Isn't that the American way?

He won. No-one likes a loser.


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You forgot something...

I don't know about your country, but in America many people get up set when it is learned that the winner won by using questionable means. A good example is the recent steroid scandal in baseball.
Something hits me. If I as a citizen offered a member of Congress something of value to vote a certain way we could both end up in jail. Think of cash in a freezer. However, If I were another politician and did it, I might well get away with it. Think of the "Louisiana Purchase" or "Cornhusker Kickback.".

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RE: If I as a citizen

Did some citizen offer someone something in the Healthcare Bill?

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Do you think that the "Louisiana Purchase" or some thing like a sum of money for a hospital could be considered to be legally a "thing of value"?

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You do this for me, I'll do this for you?

How long has this been going on?

Just start 2 years ago?

Is that what Americans refer to as "pork"?...Bridges to nowhere?

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Does that make it right...

Does that make it right? Money to a hospital is not money to a baseball stadium, but perhaps Blago might try that defense in his upcomming Federal trial (grin).
From Count 2 of the charges:
"a thing of value of $5,000 or more, namely, the provision of millions of dollars in financial assistance of the State of Illinois, including through the Illinois Finance Authority, an agency of the State of Illinois, to the Tribune Company involving the Wrigley Field baseball stadium; in violation of Tithe 18, United States Code Sections 666(a)(1)(B) and 2."

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Does that make it right..


Replace them all with others that will do the same thing. or bring charges and then replace them with others that will do the same thing.

Like they were for the 8 years before Obama became President, I don't recall your complaints about it then. And the same before Bush, and before Clinton. and so on, and so on.

Obama can't make a deal with himself...a deal requires at least 2 people.

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How many times...

How many times did the head of SEIU visit the White House? The Union exemption with "Cadillac" health plans, gave the "appearance of" a deal. I've spent years watching the goings on of legislatures at both the State and Federal level in "real time". After all, it was my job. I never cares for the vote buying and the like. The water in that swamp has stunk for years. Pelosi didn't drain it as promised, she just dove in and became another alligator swimming around in it. Let's see what happens in the November elections, the majority of voters are unhappy with Congress, especially after the Health care law.

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Let's see what happens in the November elections

I can tell you right now, one side will win and the other side will be complaining, and life will go on.

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Do you think the "Louisiana Purchase" is a "thing of value?

After Katrina?

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Yes, money is still a thing of value in Louisiana. Katrina also severely hit parts of Mississippi. So why was there not money going to Mississippi at the same time? Could it be that Mississippi didn't offer something in return, like a vote?

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So why was there not money going to Mississippi at the same time? Mississippi didn't have anything someone wanted.

Could it be that Mississippi didn't offer something in return, like a vote? No.

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Since everyone involved in the Health Care Bill

actually IS an American citizen, then every deal was offered by one to another....I think one of the most blatant that most don't mention in the media was the Union deal made personally by Obama. They agreed to the break on the cadillac tax until 2018, in addition to the head of the 'purple shirts' union organizer getting the nod to head up the NLRB (even tho he had been the head attorney for the NLRB previously).

The web of 'friends' that Obama has surrounded himself with since early in his career has tightened and we are all flies caught up in it now. They pushed, encouraged, planned, and supported Obama up the ladder from the git go and now they are all reaping the rewards in ways the voters never saw coming.


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You mean

he did something illegal?

In that case, he needs to be impeached. You've done it before, with Nixon.


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Not exactly.

Nixon was never impeached. He quit before it came tot that. A better example might be Clinton, who WAS impeached.

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Clinton? 12-14 years ago?

That was a different millennium, isn't it time to move on?

Flog that dead horse.

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Nixon committed a crime, and Clinton's impeachment failed?

But I see you get the picture.


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Did he?

In your opinion. Was he convicted? No.

Anyway, according to some, that is ancient history and not relevant.

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(NT) Relevant for what?
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I dunno. Ask the person who made the claim...
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No need to correct.
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I did...

and I was correct. Sorry to disturb you with facts. I didn't know you had a rule against that.

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ancient history and not relevant.

Tell us then..What Clinton has to do with Obamas credibility.

Clinton has as much to do with your credibility as he does Obamas.

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