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A Native American journalist on "Mascots and Dignity"

by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / September 18, 2005 6:04 AM PDT
For dignity's sake, stop using Indians as sports mascots.
(Chronicle login: semods4@yahoo.com; pw = speakeasy)

>> The National Congress of American Indians, representing more than 400 Indian nations, passed a resolution opposing the use of Indians as mascots. The Seminole Nation of Florida is a member of NCAI.

The National Indian Education Association, representing nearly every educator, principal, superintendent and student in the country, also passed a resolution opposing the use of Indians as mascots. Nearly every Indian nation in America has passed or is intending to pass, similar resolutions.

The representatives of all the Indian nations in North Dakota recently approved a resolution supporting the NCAA action against the University of North Dakota by asking that the "Fighting Sioux" nickname be changed. The resolution calls on the NCAA to deny an appeal by UND seeking an exemption from the new policy. <<

So much for the "no one really minds it" argument. Meanwhile, there's apparently no truth to the rumor that Stephen F. Austin University of Texas has filed to rename its teams the Stephen Fetchits.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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How about doing away with mascots all together?
by EdH / September 18, 2005 6:13 AM PDT

Or just use numbers? "The Fighting Ones" vs the "Big Seventy-sixes"?

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i hear there is a waiting list
by jonah jones / September 18, 2005 6:18 AM PDT

for the '69ers

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(NT) (NT) I like those. :-)
by Angeline Booher / September 18, 2005 8:53 AM PDT
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Many years ago,
by drpruner / September 19, 2005 9:32 AM PDT

U of Chicago gave up its very successful and lucrative varsity football program because of scandals. No nickname; no pigskin. What has the school done since?


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to much pc
by Mark5019 / September 18, 2005 6:51 AM PDT

they should worry more about there heritage then this

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NO ONE has said 'no one really minds it'...
by Edward ODaniel / September 18, 2005 8:07 AM PDT

because there are always a few who "mind" most anything.

You have been pointed to SEVERAL articles written by and comments made by SEVERAL Native Americans who definitely DO NOT MIND.

One of those pointed you to the Seminoles of Florida and the only ones who seemed to "mind" were a few from out of state.

What you have "found" is quite similar to the Chiefs of Police supporting gun control while the VAST MAJORITY of police officers do not.

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Because there have been complaints,,,,
by Angeline Booher / September 18, 2005 9:07 AM PDT

.... about the Florida State Seminoles and the Atlanta Braves (and the tomahawks) this is the first I have heard about mascots.

Personally I like ''Old Smokey'', the University of Tennessee mascot, the Georgia bulldog, and the Falcon of the Air Force Academy.

However, I'm glad that Carolina doesn't use a live panther, Indianapolis a live colt, Jacksonville a live jaguar. Happy

BTW, I caught the joke. Happy

Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email

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Re: Mascots
by Paul C / September 18, 2005 10:52 AM PDT

Shouldn't folks of Gaelic descent be up in arms about the "Fighting Irish"? And why Irish? The school's official name is "La Universite de Notre Dame du Fond du Lac"; it's French, for God's sake! Why not the "Fighting Frogs"?

As for Old Smokey: I thought I saw him in Indy today trying to impersonate Peyton Manning - badly (Although Jacksonville's defense had more than a little to do with it.) Wink

Agree about the Jags and the Panthers - but what'd be wrong with a colt? And just remember: If the Titans had a mascot, wouldn't they be subject to litigation by "little people"? Happy

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And don't forget rednecks
by Roger NC / September 18, 2005 10:55 AM PDT
In reply to: Re: Mascots
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(NT) (NT) Minnesota Vikings
by J. Vega / September 18, 2005 11:01 AM PDT
In reply to: Re: Mascots
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"The Oakland Raiders....."
by Paul C / September 18, 2005 7:59 PM PDT
In reply to: (NT) Minnesota Vikings

"...What about the victims? The Virginia Victims, man..."

- George Carlin

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Well, in the story they explained why "Fighting Irish" was..
by EdH / September 18, 2005 11:08 AM PDT
In reply to: Re: Mascots

supposedly NOT offensive. But if I took my "Irishness" seriously I probably WOULD be offended. You have a little red haired guy dressed in green spoinling for a fistfight. Isn't that stereotypical and negative?

At the risk of offending others I have to say I find sports and most of the nonsense surrounding them to be really stupid anyway.

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Actually, the Irish often refer to their country as
by Steven Haninger / September 18, 2005 12:02 PM PDT

The land of "happy war songs" and "sad love songs" as a real part of their folklore and traditions.

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(NT) (NT) Isn't Ireland also known as the land of Blarney?
by EdH / September 18, 2005 10:08 PM PDT
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(NT) (NT) And "rebel songs" !
by Angeline Booher / September 18, 2005 11:51 PM PDT
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Most offensive team/mascot,
by duckman / September 18, 2005 10:33 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: Mascots

the New England PATRIOTS

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(NT) (NT) Okay, I'll bite. Why?
by EdH / September 18, 2005 10:46 PM PDT
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(NT) (NT) Liberals hate our Founding Fathers
by duckman / September 18, 2005 10:48 PM PDT
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Cuz the left ...
by Evie / September 18, 2005 10:49 PM PDT

... thinks the name was chosen to call them anti-American? Devil

Evie Happy

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by duckman / September 19, 2005 12:00 AM PDT
In reply to: Cuz the left ...

because they let us have guns in the Constitution, and not abortions

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Hi, Angeline. There was a thread about this in early August,
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / September 18, 2005 11:43 PM PDT

when the NCAA announced that no teams with "hostile" or "abusive" Indian mascots would be allowed to use them, or Indian-themed cheers, at NCAA-sanctioned postseason tournaments (notably basketball): see thread here. Unfortunately, the root link is now broken, but here's a link to the original policy announcement on the NCAA site. Since then, they've backpedaled, notably exempting the FSU Seminoles because the Florida Seminole Nation approves the use (though the Seminole tribes in other states definitely do not).

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Wah wah wah
by dirtyrich / September 18, 2005 11:56 AM PDT

The Indian nations of North Dakota included in its their resolution that the use of the "Sioux" nickname "promotes an atmosphere of hostility on the campus of UND that has resulted in numerous ugly incidents including beatings, vandalism, death threats and other incidents directed toward the American Indian students on campus and others who advocate for changing the name." Before a football game last year students from the opposing team held up posters that read, "The Sioux Suck."

Yes, I'm sure that the nickname is responsible for violence on campus, and if they named themselves the Pansies, it would all go away. Seems reasonable to me that it would be due to the difference in opinion people have, not the actual name. I'm sure the violence would go away if the protests stopped too... anyone thought of that?
"The Sioux Suck?" ok... not even going to go into the ridiculousness of that complaint.

As many schools have shown... it is very likely that schools willc hange their mascots if the namesake tribe says it is offended. Despite these positive changes, activists want to implement a national ban on the use of such mascots, even though some schools' use of Indian mascots is heavily supported by the actual tribe.

And as for Fighting Irish - the nickname itself is judgemental... as if all Irish are belligerent. It calls up an image of drunk Irishmen getting in a fight outside a local bar. Yet, you hear no Irishmen complaining about it...

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to quote the late J Cash
by jonah jones / September 18, 2005 7:58 PM PDT
In reply to: Wah wah wah

if i had a son, i would call him........... anything but Sioux...


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The Sate of Illinois, named for indians
by duckman / September 18, 2005 9:52 PM PDT

should we rename all the states based on indians?

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And so are many cities and counties in many states
by Steven Haninger / September 19, 2005 1:29 AM PDT

As well, some were named for statesmen, exporers, etc. to honor them. Rewrites of history, however, have turned many of these from heros to villains. My own town of Columbus falls into such a category and our country is Franklin but Ben wasn't always such a stellar character either. Too much ado about nothing, IMO. To me, PC means "Politically Constipated" and so far no cure has been found.;)

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(NT) (NT) Not to mention Onondaga County, Oneida, Oswego, etc.
by Diana Forum moderator / September 19, 2005 9:18 AM PDT
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