General discussion

A half way sensible discussion of Gonzalez and his duty

NOT to advocate or defend torture. And therfore NOT to be confirmed as AG.

"However, Gonzales, Bybee, and their crew crossed a different ethical line. They were not acting as courtroom advocates but as legal advisers, with a different professional standard to which they needed to adhere. Model Rule 2.1, titled "Advisor," provides that "a lawyer shall exercise independent professional judgment and render candid advice." Legal advisers must play it straight, even where the "[l]egal advice [may] involve[] unpleasant facts and alternatives that a client may be disinclined to confront." Independence means saying what the law is?as mainstream lawyers and judges understand it?regardless of what the client wishes it to be. Candor requires lawyers with eccentric theories to warn their clients whenever their legal advice veers away from the mainstream. The torture lawyers betrayed both these principles with the advice they gave the White House.

"In the "Bybee Memo," for example, candid advice demands that when you discuss the "necessity defense" to the crime of torture, you mention that the defense has always been a loser in federal court. In the case of a later OLC memo by now-Harvard law professor Jack Goldsmith on the Geneva Conventions, candor means forthrightly reminding your client that the Geneva Convention forbids coercive interrogations?not burying this unwelcome point in a vaguely worded footnote."

Rob Boyter

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He has been confirmed. Get over it.

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Get over it

They still haven't gotten over 2000

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(NT) (NT) they cant
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Neither has the world, Duckman

There are over a hundred thousand now dead who would have been alive without the ill-considered macho revenge against Iraq, a trillion dollar budget surplus has been turned into an even larger deficit, and the US dollar has lost over 30% of its value against the Euro. Those are rather permanent effects that it's hard to "get over." The fact that by a slim majority the US populace failed to properly punish proximal cause of these problems doesn't make them any less real.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Infant and Child Deaths

Last August, Iraq UNICEF Executive Director, Ms. Carol Bellamy said the findings in the latest UNICEF survey entitled Child and Maternal Mortality Survey 1999 (released for the first time since 1991) reveal an ongoing humanitarian emergency; highlighting a staggering increase in the death tolls of infants and children. The key findings of the Survey, (conducted in central and southern Iraq which comprise 85 per cent of the country's population) reveal:

Under 5-mortality more than doubled from 56 deaths per 1000 live births before sanctions were imposed (1984 - 1989) to 131 deaths per 1000 live births between 1994 - 1999.

Infant mortality increased from 47 per 1000 live births to 108 per 1000 live births within the same time frame.

Maternal mortality ratio was 294 deaths per 100,000 live births over the ten year period 1989 to 1999. The Survey also states that 'the proportion of maternal deaths (31%) shows that maternal mortality is a leading cause of deaths in the last ten years among women of reproductive age'.

The comprehensive survey conservatively estimates that half a million children have died because of the sanctions during the eight-year period 1991-1998. This means that more than 5000 Iraqi children die every month from the impact of sanctions on Iraq's water and sewage treatment facilities, food and nutritional needs, and health care and delivery system.

Access to potable water is currently 50 per cent of the 1990 level in urban areas and 33 per cent in the rural areas. The April 1998 UNICEF Report stated: 'the increase in mortality reported in public hospitals for children under five years of age is mainly due to diarrhoea; pneumonia and malnutrition.' Many of the children who survive death suffer severe physical and mental injury from the cumulative effects of the sanctions. Apart from diarrhoea, there are also threats of outbreak from other communicable diseases such as cholera and typhoid due to the lack of access to safe water and sanitation.

They're free now thanks to the US (and no longer under control of the UN) and what people wouldn't make similar sacrifices to ensure that future generations have a better life then themselves?

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(NT) (NT) What a positive contribution to the discussion (NOT!!)
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(NT) (NT) Are you talkin' to me !?
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Nope, DK

It gets confusing sometimes, but if you trace the lines up you can see I'm poking fun at him in return for his reply below Happy

Evie Happy

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(NT) (NT) Who discussed the issue, unlike your insulting reply.
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Get over it!

There's nothing to discuss. He has been confirmed!

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(NT) (NT) Get over yourself !!
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(NT) (NT) Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn
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(NT) (NT) What a positive contribution to the discussion (NOT!)

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