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Question

• Best Prosumer Video Camera for under $2,000? •

Jul 29, 2013 6:20PM PDT

Hello.
I'm an amateur cinematographer, and I'm looking to upgrade from my Standard Definition Canon XL2, to a more crisp, and clean High Definiton camera.

I will be mainly using the camera for outdoor shooting, event shooting, and some greenscreen interviews. I will be mainly using this camera on a Camera Jib/Crane.

I'm looking for a Video Camera, not a DSLR, that can shoot full 720p/1080p High Definition 60i. My budget is for the camera to be under $2,000 U.S.D. It absolutely has to have Secure Digital (SD) Card recording capabilities, as it is easier than using DV tapes for what I am going to use it for.


Here are my following required qualifications:

-Must be capable of recording in 720p/1080p High Definition.
-Secure Digital (SD) Recording Capabilities
-HDMI/Component Video Output (External Monitors)
-Hot Shoe
-Microphone Input (XLR/Standard Input)
-Viewfinder (Of course)
-Tripod Screws onboard camera
-Low-Light shooting capable
-Firewire Port
-Under $2,000 U.S.D

* -Power Zoom
* -LANC Controller input

*Although I know several cameras cannot perform power zoom, It would be quite hard for me to film on a camera crane, which is my main essential use, without using a LANC Remote to zoom. Manual Zoom is impossible while a camera is mounted on a crane high in the air without anyone to operate the zoom.

*Now if there is absolutely no way to have power zoom, is there a way to have a lens converter that will convert a manual zoom, to a power zoom?


Some Perferred Qualifications: (Not Required, but I would like them.)

-XLR Microphone Inputs
-Dual Battery Inputs
-Dual SD Inputs
-Internal Memory
-Interchangeable Lens System

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Discussion is locked

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Answer
I think your requirements need
Jul 30, 2013 2:21AM PDT

a little refining...

1) What is the hot shoe going to be used for?

2) There is nothing under $2,000 with XLR audio inputs. If we stay with a 1/8" stereo audio input and augment that with an XLR adapter (juicedLink, BeachTek or separate audio recording system), is that OK?. Also, in the top requirements list, "Microphone Input (XLR/Standard Input)". But in the bottom you indicate XLR inputs are preferred but not required. What is "Standard Input" mean relative to audio inputs?

3) Most camcorders that capture video to flash memory cards do not have firewire. It is not necessary. Can you explain why firewire is a requirement?

4) I am not aware of any new "camcorder" under $2,000 that has a LANC port.

From the "preferred but not required" list:
5) Dual battery inputs? If cables are being run for LANC, is it OK to run a power cable, too? Or a battery plate that plugs into the camcorder's DC-input? Or do you mean that the camera needs to have two battery wells for internal batteries? I've not heard of that.

6) Internal memory? One of the requirements was SD memory. What would the internal memory be used for? Generally, switching from internal memory to SD memory means touching the camcorder's options menu - which can be a challenge at the far end of a camera crane.

And a couple of questions...

Which camera crane? All are weight rated and while I doubt we'll find a camera in your price range that will exceed the weight ratings of a decent crane, I'd just like to be sure. And the camera crane will be mounted to what? Are mics, lights, wireless receivers, shock mounts or other items expected to be on the crane, too?

Thinking through what is possible...

The "interchangeable lens" requirement is an odd one, but can be used to quickly filter.

There are two ways to do this. Since many camcorders are fixed-lens, one merely needs to add a DoF adapter to whichever camcorder you want to use (the camcorder needs filter-mounting threads). The DoF adapter provides the interchangeable lens capability. Since most of the camcorders in your price range don't have large 3CCD or 3CMOS imaging chip arrays when combined with their fixed lens, low light can be an issue - however, adding a DoF adapter can result in the lens pulling in more light compensating for the small imaging chip. Letus, EnCinema and a few others make these lens adapters. The lower end adapters turn the captured image upside down, so different workarounds to compensate are needed. Turn the camcorder upside down when capturing video or just rotate the image in post... or spend more for the lens adapter that does not flip the image.

If a lens adapter is not allowed, then the devices with an actual interchangeable lens system need to be identified and researched.

The Sony NEX-VG series is one of the "low end" camcorders with an interchangeable lens system - but no XLR audio inputs (unless an XLR adapter is used), no firewire, no LANC, no component out and some describe the NEX VG series as dSLRs designed to capture video. I believe the currently available units with a lens are well outside your budget.

The Canon EOS C100 Cinema Cam has XLR audio inputs, no firewire, no component video out, does not do 720p (but your video editor or other transcoder can easily take care of this externally), has a LANC but whether it can control the focus or zoom is unknown and likely depends on the lens. The body-only configuration is more than 2x your stated budget so adding lenses takes this well out of reach.

Blackmagic Design makes several "Cinema Cam" products. The Pocket Cinema Cam (is not yet available, but soon to be released and available for pre-order) is in your price range - without a lens - but no XLR audio inputs (unless an XLR adapter is used), no firewire, no component video out... and does have a LANC port assuming the lens used can be controlled through that LANC. It does not have a hot shoe. Lenses can easily take you beyond your stated budget.

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Camera
Jul 30, 2013 4:41AM PDT

1) What is the hot shoe going to be used for?
• I have a Microphone that does not have internal power, and requires the Hot-Shoe to power it.

2) There is nothing under $2,000 with XLR audio inputs. If we stay with a 1/8" stereo audio input and augment that with an XLR adapter (juicedLink, BeachTek or separate audio recording system), is that OK?. Also, in the top requirements list, "Microphone Input (XLR/Standard Input)". But in the bottom you indicate XLR inputs are preferred but not required. What is "Standard Input" mean relative to audio inputs?
• What I mean is the normal 1/8 Stereo Inputs found on most Consumer Microphones.

3) Most camcorders that capture video to flash memory cards do not have firewire. It is not necessary. Can you explain why firewire is a requirement?
• I made a slight mistake, I meant to put Firewire in the preferred section. I was going to use a Firewire to connect the camera to my MacBook, but come to think of it, I don't really need it at all.

4) I am not aware of any new "camcorder" under $2,000 that has a LANC port.
• I just need a camera that can perform Remote Zoom, or any kind of Power Zoom.

From the "preferred but not required" list:
5) Dual battery inputs? If cables are being run for LANC, is it OK to run a power cable, too? Or a battery plate that plugs into the camcorder's DC-input? Or do you mean that the camera needs to have two battery wells for internal batteries? I've not heard of that.
• My Bad, I meant dual Battery Wells. Most of Sony's high end Prosumer cameras have dual battery wells. I do a lot of field shooting, and it can take the whole day, so I need a strong battery system.

6) Internal memory? One of the requirements was SD memory. What would the internal memory be used for? Generally, switching from internal memory to SD memory means touching the camcorder's options menu - which can be a challenge at the far end of a camera crane.
• You can disregard the internal memory, a large SD card will handle it just fine.

And a couple of questions...

Which camera crane? All are weight rated and while I doubt we'll find a camera in your price range that will exceed the weight ratings of a decent crane, I'd just like to be sure. And the camera crane will be mounted to what? Are mics, lights, wireless receivers, shock mounts or other items expected to be on the crane, too?
• I use a ProAm® DVC-210 Camera Crane. It can handle 20-30 pound Cameras just fine. I've used some fairly large, and heavy broadcasting cameras at some shoots, and it handles just fine, so it should not be any issue.

The "interchangeable lens" requirement is an odd one, but can be used to quickly filter.
• I have several Nikon, and Canon lenses that I've seen could fit some Prosumer cameras via an Adapter, but it really isn't that needed. I just need a simple camera that can record in HD, SD Compatible, Power Zoom, Hot Shoes, and Stereo Mic. Inputs.

The Canon EOS C100 Cinema Cam has XLR audio inputs, no firewire, no component video out, does not do 720p (but your video editor or other transcoder can easily take care of this externally), has a LANC but whether it can control the focus or zoom is unknown and likely depends on the lens. The body-only configuration is more than 2x your stated budget so adding lenses takes this well out of reach.
• It would be nice, although I can't find any EOS Cinema Cameras used, in my price range.


• Just to clarify: I just need a simple Prosumer video camera, that can record in High Definition, SD Compatible, has at least 1 Hot Shoe, has Stereo Mic. Inputs, and can be power zoomed. Let me raise the budget a little, Oh say to about $3,000? I can always find the camera used, I've seen used prosumer cameras go up to 50% off.

-Thanks for your help, It's much appreciated.

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A couple more questions, then...
Jul 30, 2013 8:29AM PDT

and some observations...

1) Which mic (manufacturer and model)? Is Phantom Power do-able or only hot-shoe supplied power? Can the mic be replaced? I did a search for "hot shoe mic" and the only ones I found that required a hot-shoe were manufacturer-proprietary mics... i.e., Sony makes AIS-mount mics for Sony certain consumer camcorders, Canon makes MAS mics for certain Canon consumer camcorders and Fuji makes mics for certain FujiFilm cameras - but these mics can be used with other manufacturer's equipment. I found an MXL mic that says it mounts to a hot shoe - but it does not draw power from the shoe (AAA battery inside). I found a Samsung hot shoe mic powered by the hot shoe - for specific Samsung cameras...

2) OK.
3) OK.
4) OK.

5) I looked through the Sony alpha series dSLRs - none had "dual battery wells". Can you provide a model number so I can understand what you mean? Assuming we get to a camcorder, most of the manufacturers have different sizes and power ratings of batteries available. I use optional Sony NP-F970 batteries in my HDR-FX1 and HDR-FX1000. The NP-F970 can provide nearly 6 hours of work time for these camcorders. If I think if the job is longer than that, then either additional rechargeable batteries are carried or power is run. I am not aware of any "dual battery well" camcorders at the consumer, prosumer or pro-grade levels from any manufacturer. If you are on a crane, then a small battery pack on the tripod and a cable to the camcorder would work well. If portability is required, then carry an extra battery.

6) OK.

7) Um... OK. The ProAm® DVC-210 Camera Crane is rated to carry 10 pounds. You may have run more weight - the "Lifetime warranty" is void when the crane fails. The stress cracks will be the proof that it was carrying too much weight. (I sincerely hope you don't have problems.)
http://www.proamusa.com/ProAm-DVC210-DSLR-Camera-Crane-Jib-NEW-Model-p/dvc210.htm
(I use a Kessler KC-8 kit and spend the extra $ specifically for the weight rating).
We don't know what your DVC-210 is mounted on - it has a weight rating, too...

Cool All consumer *camcorders* starting at about $300 all the way up through prosumers (and above) have built-in stereo mics. The only mono-mic cameras I am aware of that can capture video are point&shoot consumer cams and dSLRs (low & mid range - some are starting to do built-in stereo, now). This is because video (hence, audio) is a "convenience feature". You are right, prosumer camcorders with a mic jack have the single stereo 1/8" (3.5mm) audio input, not XLR. XLR is usually found only in the pro-grade camcorders (there are a couple of exceptions).

The Sony HVR-Z5 - when coupled with a Sony HVR-MRC1K - has everything except it records 1080i (not 1080p) and uses the HVR-MRC1 Memory Recording Unit (CompactFlash not SD) and no hot shoe... It is outside your budget and in Sony's pro line, so not a prosumer. The HDR-FX1 or HDR-FX1000 may fit and were/are part of Sony's consumer line. Sony can tell you if the HVR-MRC1 will work with them. The HDR-AX2000 does SD flash memory (but may be outside your budget).

The Panasonic AG-AC90 is worth a look (though smaller lens diameter and smaller 3MOS imaging sensor than the above so not as good under low light conditions)... but still no hot shoe.

I agree with Bob on the external audio recording... I like the Zoom H4n and Fostex FR2-LE.

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Reply
Jul 30, 2013 9:58AM PDT

1) Which mic (manufacturer and model)?
• I've decided that I'll just stick with a simple RODE Videomic. My XLR microphones use DSLR energy. It's fine, a simple RODE can get the job done.

5) Sounds good.

7) The ProAm® DVC-210 Camera Crane is rated to carry 10 pounds.
• My bad, I use 2 ProAm Cranes, I always mix them up. I meant to say I use an HD750. It's rated for 30 pounds. Both my 250 and 750 are mounted on a speaker like Tripod stand that ProAm supplied with the cranes. It's rated for their cranes.

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This one should power the mic.
Jul 30, 2013 10:04AM PDT
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Reply
Jul 30, 2013 10:10AM PDT

Now I've done some researching, and I found out Sony just released a new NEX Cam. Dubbed the EA50. Now what's great is, it has a servo zoom lens. Emininating my problems. It also has XLR inputs, and a hot shoe. Although is is QUITE over my $2,000 budget, I guess I can part with my old trusty Canon XL2, and somehow scrape enough funds to purchase it. It has everything I need, and then some.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/887069-REG/Sony_nex_ea50h_Sony_NEX_EA50_Camcorder_with.html

Now it is nice and all, but now what are your thoughts?

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I think you can save some
Jul 30, 2013 10:33AM PDT
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Seems a tad much for used.
Jul 30, 2013 11:19AM PDT

For such gear I suggest folk rent or have the film producer provide such.

Another lesson my son learned in school and in real life. You need 2 cameras. For his indie work it's a cheaper camera on a tripod mostly un-manned that they just hit record so there is footage in case they miss something.
Bob

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I agree
Jul 30, 2013 10:46PM PDT

Bob. Two cameras is a good idea - "Safety" first. As for "used" it says 20 hours. Not so bad for what it is.

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Did you get the NEX-EA50UH?
Oct 6, 2013 5:14AM PDT

I am looking to augment my stable and this looks *really* compelling...

If you got it (the previously owned one at bhphotovideo we away about when you said you'd be buying), how do you like it?

If you did not, did you get anything?

Thanks.

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Answer
Be sure to read prior discussions.
Jul 30, 2013 4:50AM PDT
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Reply
Jul 30, 2013 8:23AM PDT

I understand there are a significant amount of websites, threads, and blogs that ask my question, but they don't seem to suit me. I have some very specific things I need on a camera, and I can't find a proper answer, therefore I reached out to the CNET Community.

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I see good replies above
Jul 30, 2013 8:47AM PDT

But some of the items are MIA. Some are only in higher priced models and my thought is that what I read with that search came very close PLUS I see new models I didn't see at the last trade show.

How about this. Make a direct call to Sony, Samsung and other makers and talk to them about this. For example the CNET Samsung forum has this super Samsung Ambassador and while they don't make the prosumer model, well, I could be very wrong.

My background includes some HD CCTV DVR work so some of the remote control you ask for is what we've done but an indie producer might be floored by the price.

Also, what do you use now or in school?
And in closing, my son took the film school route, graduated and does not use much more than the usual to get the job done.

However he learned from school and from me about not worrying about audio in the camcorder. His setup is mics and another recorder and mixing it in post. It's fun to read about folk that get hung up on audio in the camcorder as I got to see my son learn the hard way.
Bob

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Answer
Part 2. Audio.
Jul 30, 2013 4:53AM PDT

My son does some indie work and he took a page from class and carries an audio recorder then mixes it back in in post production. For him it's par for the course and he never second guessed why we do that. You can get XLR inputs on such things too so if that's a requirement then you can do this.

Bob