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General discussion

645D lost the competition

Mar 9, 2010 7:05PM PST

Same pixel count and same image sensor size as the newly announced Mamiya MF digital. But Mamiya has 16 bit color and penatx only has 14 bit (here are the 645D specification: http://www.infoborder.com/Digital_Cameras/Pentax/645d.php ). How did pentax lose 2 bits of color if the image sensor is the same which is seems likely it is? Maybe this is how pentax is able to sell the camera for so cheap compared to Mamiya.

Discussion is locked

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Really hard to tell difference

If what you say is true then the Canon 50D(14bit) is a much better camera than the Nikon D90(12bit). I doubt you'll find any review or user that says the 2 bit difference is what made the deal or that it makes one camera a better at image quality than the other. Either way, Pentax's camera is half the price of the Mamiya MF with almost the same specs.

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14 bit vs 16 bit
Mar 10, 2010 8:57AM PST

This may look like a small difference at first glance. But actually a 2 bit difference equals to 4 fold difference in tones. Since this has to do with A/D (analog to digital) conversion, we are talking about binary (1 or 0) system. So a 1 bit represents 2 tones, 2 bit represent 4 tones, so it is 2 to the power of (number of bits). 14 bits represents 16,384 tones (2 to power 14), whereas 16 bits represent 65,536 tones. A 12 bit represent 4096 tones.
So the 16 bit has 16 times more tones than a 12 bit.

What does this mean? This means that you can pull out more data from shadows and has more headroom for Photoshop editing, with less compression and posterization effect. It also means it can have more colors, though the difference may not be visible on the photo.

But as mentioned, this is usually not a deal breaker. Pentax and Mamiya are both very good, the cheaper price of Pentax system will more than making up for the bit depth if budget is a concern. Medium format cameras, lenses and accessories are expensive. Pentax can save an enthusiast quite a bit of money and still provide high quality result.

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RAW and JPEG
Mar 10, 2010 9:01AM PST

Also remember JPEG is a high compression format and only has 8 bits, so the high bit depth mainly benefits RAW shooters who process and edit in RAW format. If you convert a RAW photo file to JPEG and edit in Photoshop, you also lost the advantage.

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I agreed with HJFOK.
Mar 10, 2010 2:29PM PST

The bit different will lay an impact on a very large scale print out , such as billboard or so. It's very helpful for professional who demand a large output of optimum details. The largest printout I've ever seen around is around A1-A2, originated by a TIFF file. Today printing technology doesn't really catch up with the monitor and Digital camera. What you see on a calibrated screen Mac doesn't always end up the same on most printers & plotters. Leave the work to the professionals who know what they are doing.

I've tested a friend's H3D2-50 and really disappointed for the price versus quality. At first glance, any shot ISO above 100 are extremely noisy like DSLR's ISO above 800. But, the dynamic range and details are something else, provided the correct lighting. Each camera serves its user purposes. To me, shooting pictures are a lot more fun to do. An average DSLR camera is more than enough for non-demanding and picky shooter. I'd be more concerned for what I did wrong for any shot. Enjoy photographing.

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Medium format photography
Mar 11, 2010 3:15AM PST

Agree with jump. Every type of camera has its purpose and optimal use. The D-SLR/35mm format is for photojournalistic and sports photography. It is portable and fast, with much better low ISO performance for low light actions. And this is also a great camera for candid shots of kids, on-location weddings and for traveling (especially if you don't want to carry a heavy tripod).

Here is an objective test of the high ISO performance of different cameras, and you will notice that all the high ISO kings are D-SLR 35mm, not the medium format cameras. In fact, the highly regarded Hasselblad ranks 63 in high ISO performance (beaten even by the entry level D-SLR with much smaller APS-C size sensor):
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor

Medium format has larger film or sensor, so it has wider angle of view and looks sharper (becauase you don't need to enlarge as much as the small 35mm format). It is good for landscape (large format is even be better) and studio work (photos with a lot of details). Upgrading from 35mm to 645 format is like upgrading from APS-C to full 35mm frame, with a crop factor of about 1.6 to 1.7. So medium format lens has "wider angle". Since there is not as much magnification needed to produce the final print, details are sharper. Medium format lenses are usually not as fast as the 35mm, and they don't really need to because no one uses medium format to do low light action photos.

As many people have said in other forums, camera and equipment are tools for the photographer. Choosing the right kind of equipment is as important as having good skills and knowledge.

Finally, one thing to add about Pentax vs Mamiya medium format. I did mention Pentax is cheaper, but Mamiya has more lens selection and accessories. If your budget is not limited, then Mamiya has more options. Remember lens selection for medium format is limited to start with, so having a system with more lens and accessory choices can be very helpful.

The point is when you buy a camera system, don't just look at the specs and certain tested performance. You have to look at what you need and how to get everything without going over your budget too much. Getting everything you need is often more important than getting the best individual camera or individual lens, etc. For medium format photography, if you plan to do studio type work, then you also need to invest in a good lighting system, because you will need it.