General discussion

60Hz vs 120Hz

Like many of you, I am in search of a practical way of viewing all programing on these new HDTVs, I've gotten most of the tech stuff down, but I am still confused about refresh rates. Can someone let me know if it makes a great difference between a set with a 60Hz refresh rate and one with a 120Hz rate?

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Comments
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3:2 Pulldown

Just got done with a chat with a Samsung support person.

They tell me that most, if not all, TV's, can only accept 60Hz input.

So I don't understand the 3:2 pulldown when using a 60Hz TV versus a 120Hz TV.

Where does the pull-down occur? There seems to be a "garbage in - garbage out" dynamic here.

If the TV can only accept a 60Hz input - isn't the 3:2 done BEFORE my TV gets the input? So if my TV "upconverts" to 120Hz, which it does, if its getting a 3:2 pulldown conversion input - won't that just result in a 6:4 pulldown per second?

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price matters

i use a $160 HDMI cable made by Monster Cable because i use it on blu-ray it matters for the 1080/24p and just 1080p. i use a rocket fish hdmi cable from my time warner dvr it was about $80. Transfer speed matters cheap cables can cause your HDTV to not work right with hdmi. Time Warner told me there HDMI cables they give you are "******". i cant believe they admitted that. Buy you a Monster Cable. You will be happy

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(NT) that cant be true
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also dont buy a cheap hdmi cable

i recomend a Monster Cable brand HDMI cable. if you are going to buy a TV like that dont buy a cheap HDMI cable its worth it to buy about a $100 HDMI cable

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SAMSUNG

the samsung hdtvs are terrible. just buy a Sony and you will not regret it. Samsung makes a worse TV than westinghouse or vizio they suck go for a Sony 120Hz you dont even need a 240Hz with Sony they are true. its like car amps a sony amp at 50W x 4 is way more powerful than a cheap namebrand 2000 watt amp. SONY is the best in TVs they always have been and dont buy a sony from wall-mart they are not the same models top lines like at best buy. 3D plasma tvs are the best but 3D is not going to last it will be gone in 2 years

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You are wrong

Digital wires dont mean they carry the same bandwidth. example a cat 5 ethernet vs. a cat 7. You get what you pay for. some people are cheap and spend more buying several differnt HDMI cables before they listen

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You have been duped, amigo

My two sets of $30 "generic" HDMI cables (one Amazon, and another from Monoprice) do just fine passing along an HD signal for a run of approximately 8-9 feet. If you want to fool yourself in thinking the Monster brand is necessarily giving you something 'extra' by paying more, then go for it. The rest of the informed consumers will keep on using what we know works, and works well, thank you very much.

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no i have not been duped!

If you can't see a differnce Your TV is the problem. If one buys a $2000 it would stupid to buy such a cheap HDMI cable. I know because of experience. i also can afford it so why not im happy and i have a lot of money. Cheap TVs may need cheap HDMI cables. I suppose you think there is no diffence with RG6 and RU59. informed i dont need to bargin shop i have over $3000 in Monster cable audio and video wires and monster power everone i know says my TV is the best looking HDTV they have ever seen. ITS A SONY i only buy the BEST. Your TV may not show a differnece because its small and 60Hz then it DOSN'T matter. THX certified yeah i have better sound and video than the DLP theaters and my sound will blow away most teaters. SO THERE i would use component cables before using a $30 HDMI cable i have had a cheap one but i threw it away cause you really do get your moneys worth unless you have a 30" or smaller 60Hz TV which i bet you do. hahahaha

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where to begin

Let's just say 'been there, done that'. Many, many times, actually. I can't count how many times on my fingers and toes I've been in friend's homes and did the side by side tests with different HDMI cables. They usually call best buy (etc.) afterwards asking a manager for a refund for their monster equipment Wink.

FWIW, your analogy is a poor one regarding relative price of a particular HDTV requiring a proportionally priced HDMI cable. For typical/short runs as I've described (and has been described by others ad nauseum in this forum), there are plenty of options to being suckered into overpaying for monster cable. Even the fabled Pioneer Kuro does not benefit by using an overpriced Monster vs the very adequate and better priced version from either Monoprice or Blue Jeans cable. Also, comparing RG6 to RU59 isn't the same as comparing various types of HDMI cable.
You need to do a little research before simply repeating on an internet forum what your installer told you.

I'll be honest, your overall post sounds and reads like a typical internet braggard. [Haven't you left your teenage years behind already?] Give me someone who's knowledgable and helpful any day over someone who brags about their money and toys. Someone posting such drivel could certainly benefit from a refresher on many real world specifics.

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Yes there is a difference

between RG6 and RG59 but it all depends on the application both are rated for different things. RG59 is fine for Cameras but not for Satellite TV which RG6 is used for. 1.3 rated HDMI cables are just the same. As long as they really are 1.3 they will pass the required signal for true HDMI

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buy the vizio

the samsung tvs look bad even if they are a 240Hz. However, Sony is the best by far in any tv

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Buy VISIO LED vs. LG, Samsung, Sony or Sharp?

I am a solid Costco buyer. It seems that VISIO offers a quality product and more performance for the $. I have never owned an HD, Plasma or LCD TV. I am considering the VISIO 32" LED Edge Lite/ 60 Hz. The sales person recommended that if I have to choose between LED v LCD or between 60 Hz v 120 Hz because of my budget, choose LED. Since I am not a gamer but I do watch football & hockey plus Blue Ray and Netflix DVD/streaming movies, will the 60 Hz give me a smooth picture for all of these? All suggestions are welcome. Happy New Year!

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Did you plan on watching 24p blu ray content?

Is so, the 120Hz is the common number for viewing 60 and 24 Hz content.
Bob

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Did you plan on watching 24p blu ray content?

Bob,

I guess I am not as knowledgeable as I should be. What is 24p Blu Ray content?

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24p

The 24p refers to the frame rate of actual film. Video has a frame rate of 30 frames per second and film has a frame rate of 24 frames per second. It's easy to visualize the frame rate of film because if you hold up a strip of film you can see each frame with a still image, whereas videotape is just a solid piece of tape with no visual images. On film, each of the film frames passes the film gate 24 times in each second, thus causing motion created when all of those still film frames passes over the film gate and light. Videotape does not use a film gate. It uses an electonic scanning head that spins across the videotape. It just so happens that the spinning video head scans at a rate of 30 times per second. The problem is that the film rate of 24 frames per second never transferred perfectly to video equipment that was geared to play at 30 frames per second. If you watch a VHS tape one frame at a time, you will see the images advancing 1 frame at a time until the 3rd frame when one frame repeats twice. With the advent of BluRay discs and players and HDTVs that can display 24 frames per second (24p), we now have the technology to transer films at the original 24 frames per second onto video devices (BluRay discs) that save and can playback at this original film rate without the need to add any duplicate frames, which was done to allow old video equipment to play the films properly.

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I see a definition here.

But let's cut to the bottom line.

Since the decay time of a pixel on the display is constant we have to run the refresh rate of the panel at fixed rate (you'll see 60, 120, 240 Hz).

Now to show 24 and 60 FPS content the first rate that allows both would be 120. Bingo, 120Hz displays and no 120Hz CONTENT to be had. The folk that sell these things appear to not want to explain this too often.
Bob

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Perfect explanation, but

msu_1966 seemed to need an explanation of where 24 fps came from, so I was just trying to provide a little background that 24 fps came from film, and I didn't explain what Progressive was, which is what the "p" stands for. Yes, this is hardly or never explained.

Dan

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60 Hz vs. 120 Hz

One major variable that gets lost in the discussion of what TV to purchase and what bells and whistles you need to have is the ability of human eye to discern the picture detail. Why pay more for 120 Hz if you are unable to see the difference b/t it and the 60 Hz picture. Theoretically, 120 Hz will give you a better picture when watching filmed content that has alot of action/movment in frame. But, where the TV sits, in relation to the viewer is just as important. If you are sitting 10 feet away from a 40" Screen, you probably won't be able to see much of a difference between a 60 Hz and a 120 Hz picture. But don't take my word for it. The boys a CNET test these products for a living. This link will take you to their buying guide which helps you figure what features you should be looking for on when making your decision.

http://reviews.cnet.com/tv-buying-guide/?tag=contentMain;contentBody

This link is also helpful

http://www.hightech-edge.com/optimal-viewing-distance-hdtv-screen-size-lechner-distance-chart/4351/

Cheers!

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Don't forget

I'd encourage you to also diffentiate between screen resolution and refresh rate. While it's true that past a certain distance the human eye & brain cannot benefit from the increased *resolution*, increasing the *refresh rate* to 120Hz might be something you can still benefit from at a distance if the process is implemented correctly and does not introduce other problems with the displayed images, moving or otherwise.

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60 hz man

I have Toshiba 32" 720p 60hz LCD 4 years old it is great no complaints. My Acer 23 for my cpu is 60 hz all good. Even ran an x2 pj 140" 480p awesome.
I do get some lag on the 360 but it is the 360 drive.
I belive it to be some of the games not the tv.
Zune 1080p perfect 720p on my set.
My Brother bought a new 47 lg and hates the 120hz.
As far as cables go I have been a hi-fi nut for over 20years top equipment maggies, yamahas,nads,extc..
I like 18 gauge wire unless running banna plugs and power amps then 14-16 gauge.
HMDI cables I like the Nyko gaming cables less than 20 bucks works great. As far as optical cable goes
Digital Coaxial is far better than toslink. It is more reliable but not always an option.
TV's have alway seemed to be 5 years ahead of what the average consumer's input is. I have learned one thing over the years, it is best to have last years top tech at todays half price, than to be top dog and chew on it.
That is my 2 cents worth.

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60Hz vs 120Hz

"I have learned one thing over the years, it is best to have last years top tech at todays half price, than to be top dog and chew on it".

Spoken like a true pragmatist. I have more time than money also and would much rather wait till the talking heads shake out the bugs, etc, and take the discount on last years tech. Honestly, the marketing guys are counting on the "lemming effect" for most of the new & improved aspects of todays televisions. When it comes down to it, it's the individual's ability to see/discern the improvements in the picture. This is directly related to the quality of the individual's vision, the distance the individual sits from the TV, and the lighting in the room. Depending upon your individual situation, you may be better off buying a Sony Trinitron or some other tube television, rather than the latest models with all the whistles and gizmos.

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Right On

There is so much marketing B.S. these days you need wings to stay above it.
There is a new proverb in the world today "stick it to the consumer".
It used to be last years model now it is last quarters or last weeks sometimes.
Lol.

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toslink/digital optical just as good as digital coaxial

Perhaps in your experience it has performed better, but most folks don't have many issues with toslink/digital optical. You are seriously splitting hairs, amigo.

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