5/6/05 What's safe and legal to download using a file-sharing program?

I started off always doing the format, install, configure, install, configure, install, configure, install until I got it back. I had quite a few MCSE techs that were a lot smarter and faster than I was, and they were the ones who taught me how not to make a client really angry by submitting a fixit bill for more than the cost of a box.

Format and Install the OS is the easy part if you are lucky. If we could do it on our bench and do other jobs concurrently, we could do that for maybe $100.00 You still have to install and configure all the software and then set up the networking and e-mail. Clients don't think about the fact that a new machine is going to need networking and e-mail. They just see the bill and go ballistic.

As far as your remark regarding the RIAA; I do think they rip off the artist and the public. That doesn't make it right to further rip off the artist. I bet you don't do your work for free.

Kazaa - gay, sharezilla - gay in fact any on thses types of p2p are crap anyone using them deserves whatever happens. Now I am not trying to antagonise anyone but it seems so one sided. Firstly, 90% of the p2p downloads are illegal sotfware, music, etc. Secondly, 65% of total WWW bandwidth is reputedly used by, mainly, BitTorrent and then the lesser and in my opinion inferior p2p clients. Now yes we know we shouldn't download stuff that we don't have the right to but when you are told by people that they work for the MPAA and then THEY upload stuff it kinda makes you wonder what's the point of worrying? If the PEOPLE who are supposed to be stopping you can do then us mere mortals can do it. I have used bittorrent for over a year and I ain't afraid to say it, hell if anyone from MPAA/RIAA wants they can send me an email. IThe reason me and my mates all use this software is because there are too many people out there only interested in $$

I've been using BT since it first came out (3-4 years)I have never contracted a virus or had any problems (other than physical wearing out of hard drives). Any decent Bit torrent site 1)Requires you to register (anonymous participation is a thing of the past) 2)Keep a list of non-tradeable artists-those that have expressly stated they do not allow electronic trading of their music 3)Enforce the wishes of those artists 4)Never allow sharing of copyrighted material (this excludes bootleg recordings that can be purchased in less than reputable shops, flea markets, etc (sharing them is known as "liberating" them and takes money away from the dirtbags that make money on someone elses talent and hard work. Bit torrent sites are fan clubs and promote fan interaction that enhances the artists fan base. The management of Dave Mathews Band has just recently affirmed exactly as I say and encourage taping of concerts and the sharing of said recordings! A bigger problem is that most cable isp's do not allow file sharing (this is in the TOC agreement you receive at initial subsciption)DSL's for the most part allow the practice. Dial up is not practical due to file size.

I used to be able to see both sides of this issue and think that both had valid points. Let me say that I have never personally downloaded a single song in P2P fashion. I still generally believe that artists deserve to be compensated for their creations but I really don't believe that any of them will suffer immense hardships from whatever revenues are lost by P2P.
I guess it has been a combination of things that has changed my view of this; the staggering sums of money that professional athletes are getting completely turned me off of pro sports and entertainers are now falling into the same category. Movie studios who play games with accounting in order to maximize their profits on a film that, according to their books actually LOST money and now that take their productions to other countries to rake in even more profits is another. But the biggest thing is this. My girlfriend used our second computer to download some music from Kazaa Lite (Music that she already owned and paid for on LP). Four months ago, she got hit with a wave of really nasty malware that took the computer down so bad it eventually trashed the hard drive and resulted in a machine that had to be almost completely rebuilt. I did some research and checking into this and found sources that claimed the RIAA was actually behind alot of the malware and computer threatening virus/trojans that were circulating on the P2P realm. They did it through a third party (thus leaving them an "out" when discovered) who disguised the infected files as normal music files. That totally swayed my feelings. Whatever moral high ground they may have had before, was instantly eroded and put them on the same level as the worst of the virus designers and those who perpetrate denial of service attacks. Enforcing copyrights in courts of law is one thing; deliberately destroying someones computer in a chicken-sh_t way is quite another. Nothing excuses this and I now feel great whenever I read or hear about P2P activities thriving. I have just gotten this machine fixed and I may even make it a sacrificial lamb for downloading music, at least til I recover the money this whole episode cost me.

>> I really don't believe that any of them will suffer immense hardships from whatever revenues are lost by P2P. <<

Sorry, but if I steal money from a rich guy, I?m a thief.

>> found sources that claimed the RIAA was actually behind alot of the malware and computer threatening virus/trojans <<

And you chose to believe it. Anyway, I?m reminded of the guy who hurt a burglar in the course of trying to stop the burglar from stealing, and the burglar sued him. Do you admire that burglar?

I?ve downloaded songs in the past, but I never tried to say it was ethical. Now I pay as I go.

>> I really don't believe that any of them will suffer immense hardships from whatever revenues are lost by P2P. <<

Sorry, but if I steal money from a rich guy, I?m a thief.<<

and what if the rich guy stole from others? yes we are no better than the riaa but we download stuff to show that this is just another greedy organisation.
There is no such this as loss for most of these artists and companies as the target is made up to start with. I mean if certain artists can get paid

So your Robin Hood are you? Fact is that CD's are not a necessity, it is not food on your plate or a roof over your head. You do not steal music for altruistic reasons but because you can, and your efforts to rationalise it are to appease your own conscience.

You are right that the prices are set because we are prepared to pay for it, this applies to nearly everything in life and if we decided not to pay double because it has a brand name on it then the companies would drop the prices. This is simple supply side economics in a free market economy and is not an excuse for me to steal a pair of Reeboks. This is exactly what you are doing, it is just harder to find you.

Yes some artists make a lot of money, but for every rich artist there are 12 that can't make a living, and this is only making it harder for them. Would you work for free? Do you think that your efforts deserve compensation? Do you do your job for purely altruistic reasons or do you work to live as well as loving it?

Yes it is cheaper from iTunes, but not for altruistic reasons but because you are downloading an electronic copy. There is no overhead per download, no manufacturing costs, no wholesaler, no retailer, no supply chain of people with families to feed and provide for. Most record shop retailers struggle to make a living.

Honesty is sadly missing from this discussion, if something is to expensive then your choice is to do without it, we make these choices every day, prioritising our funds and it is all part of being a responsible moral adult.

Michael

You hit the point really well; Music is food for the soul, but not necessary to live.

Stealing is stealing, no matter what the size. I would be inclined to forgive it a bit if done as part of a political statement where one believed that lines of morality had been crossed and this was a last resort. Such is not the case in the music industry; you can vote with your wallet.

Paying exhorbitant prices for things encourages more people to get into the viscious loop. If you feel the price is too high; don't buy. If enough people do this, the price will adjust to the demand.

The price of some things, like medical care, are totally outrageous and we should all be involved politically to try and change this, but I don't notice many people stealing stuff from hospitals. I do see a few people trying to address it politically and this is a good thing.

It is also a matter of priorities. How much $ is one spending on designer clothes, gas for the SUV, a house much larger than one needs, etc. Balance this with the desire for music, and make the choice.

I agree stealing is stealing but I can say almost anyone in the world has at some point, whether it be a biscuit from mother's table, a cd from a store, a gig of music, it's all stealing and we should be ashamed we've done it but are we?

"Paying exhorbitant prices for things encourages more people to get into the viscious loop. If you feel the price is too high; don't buy. If enough people do this, the price will adjust to the demand."
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not necessarily true mate and let's talk about different countries, you get an album from itunes at $5, that's about

sorry for the time difference in me replying but I been offline and busy as hell.
"So your Robin Hood are you? You do not steal music for altruistic reasons but because you can, and your efforts to rationalise it are to appease your own conscience."
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When have I stole music? If I find anything on the net that says free then who am I not to take advantage? And I don't need to please my own conscience, hell I DEMAND the mpaa/riaa or the UK equivelant to come to my house and take action. I have nothing to fear nor do I care.

"Yes some artists make a lot of money, but for every rich artist there are 12 that can't make a living, and this is only making it harder for them. Would you work for free?"
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While I do know of some bands I can honestly say if one is rich and 12 aren't that's there problems. Not every band is good enough and why pay max price to find out? I do work for free and have done for 2 years, so next time it's advisable to think of your statements before stating such ****.

"Yes it is cheaper from iTunes, but not for altruistic reasons but because you are downloading an electronic copy."
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Well maybe it's time these retailers seized the technology and make it available for you to take your iPod, rio or whatever mp3 player you have to the store and get your e-copy of whatever you desire, sure you still have the stores and running costs but they'd be greatly reduced, less staff, automated systems, no printing costs etc. Again, nothing I can do about it nor care.

"Honesty is sadly missing from this discussion, if something is to expensive then your choice is to do without it, we make these choices every day, prioritising our funds and it is all part of being a responsible moral adult."
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We also have the choice to get what we'd like at whatever the cost, morally or not. There are many things in the world worse than P2P and needing more attention but nothing gets done, that to me is morally wrong and worse than me getting 0's and 1's on my pc.
The saying "we'll have to agree to disagree" comes to mind.

>> and what if the rich guy stole from others? yes we are no better than the riaa but we download stuff to show that this is just another greedy organisation. <<

Excuses, excuses. Is the rich guy a thief in your confused argument, or is he just ?greedy?? As if wanting free CD?s wasn?t greedy.

>> there is no singer out there worth

Your reply is 100% correct.

There's really no grey area here. If you steal my intellectual property, you are a thief. Most songwriters, even successful ones, take decades to build a catalog that will provide them with a decent living.


I hold the copyright on over 100 songs. Occasionally, I actually make a few dollars on my catalog. Very few. I use this money as supplemental support for my family but it makes up less than 5% of my $50K annual income. I have 6 kids and stealing my property takes food off their plates. Don't tell ME that I don't deserve to get paid for my work, tell my kids.

Even if it was just the record labels you were stealing from, it wouldn't be right, but it's not. It's the little guy that deserves to be compensated for their work.

Please don't steal folks, it just isn't right.

>>Excuses, excuses. Is the rich guy a thief in your confused argument, or is he just ?greedy?? As if wanting free CD?s wasn?t greedy.<<
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you could say they are excuses but I never said I wanted free cd's, I said until things change with cd prices I wouldn't pay. this ain't the same as saying I want free, if they were cheaper sure I'd buy them, you can never beat a genuine copy.

>>So you get to decide who is worth what? Karl Marx would be proud of you.<<
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Miscontrued my words or maybe I used the wrong ones. as for Karl Marx he wouldn't care, he's dead.

The envy part I concede as I can honestly say I have never been rich and would love to be. Only rich people don't think of money cos they have it, try swapping places with me and we'll soon see how many understand better my arguement.

>>Yep. Zillions of people freely choosing to pay. Capitalism is good.<<
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well we all know about that don't we, freely choosing to pay, there is no such thing mate. it's case of "you got money? no, well f**k off. Next, you got money, yeah we here you go now f**k off" Those with money get more money and those without have to resort to stealing, which is wrong but if I saw you with a case full of money and you drop $100/

Well well well, as someone who knows you quite well i find the post by you a complete joke, escpecially the copy and pastes of other peoples views and writings, newsflash folks he didnt write this post, but i will address some of the thngs he has put, his bitterness to the fat cats making there millions is just that, bitterness that he cant get of his stoner *** for 10 secounds and pay his kid a slight bit of attention becuase he hes too obsessed with bit torrent communities, climbing the staff ladder hey zed, if one of these companies that you are ripping off offered you a job at a PC all day you would join the "common robbers" yourself and you know it.

Lets talk about the money shall we, the quality of (most) movies are going up, with this comes more specialized work thus the high rise in everything,these facts run thru the whole entertainment sectors, excellent production of music isnt cheap, and why the hell should it be, we all are in this world to take what we can get, and you cant knock the industries for getting what they can, and yes this is were torrenting and other p2p come into play, they are charging high, so we take what we can, its the old chestnut sticking it to the man, yes ill save yuo the reply, i have run and owned torrent sites myself which you have leeched and played a part in destroying (am i wrong) me thinks not.

The MPAA are not claiming that you are robbing them of the hard earned money, they are claiming that you are robbing there clients of their hard and money, andyou know what they are right, but this wont stop me and if it wasnt for the fact you cant pay your isp bill cos you have let your sad exestence go down the pan due to hash and the rejection of your kid im sure it wouldnt stop you.

The fact of the matter is this, as a torrent user myself is a matter of balance, if the whole world comes in up in arms and sticks it to the man and does nothing but filesharing, the consiquence will be albeit eventually, catastrophic, productions are suffering and will continue to suffer as long as this is happening, its a matter of balance, im not saying dont do it, im saying just give your support were you can, theres bands out there that dont deserve to be robbed by the file sharing communities because there record labels are milking their talents, theres independant film comanies trying to make artistic films instead of hollywood jokes, surely these people deserve support

[Edited by: admin] for profanity. -Lee Koo CNET Community

I Have had LimeWire and BearShare. They both screwed me over. My computer has crashed 2 times because of downloading these programs. I do have to admit i got about 2000 songs from these programs and i was very happy but when my computer crashed i lost everything so i ended up wasting my time. My suggestion to you is but an old crappy computer hook it up to your high speed internet if you can then download limewire and get all of your songs then transfer those songs using a flash drive or someting to your main computer.

P2P is great if you dont mind it slowing your comp down 50%

From all the posts I have read I have to surmise that the majority of p2p users are quite ignorant. The old saying "You can't get something for nothing" applies. Ninety nine point nine percent of files on p2p are illegal to download. Virus, trojans and more await you at these sites. Adware/spyware run amuk on the majority of the applications used to share the files. If you really want to download files (illegally) use torrents. At least there are applications out there that do not put malware on your system. Bit Comet, Bit Spirit and Azureus are a few that are freeware and safe. File sharing is here to stay so if you are going to share, do it right.

>> all music is legal to download as long as you don't burn them to cds and try to sell them <<

Quesitons of legality aside, there?s no excuse for getting a permanent copy of cd-quality music for free.

If you want a CD, buy it. If you want a song, go to one of those $.99-per-download sites. If you don?t want to pay, then live without it.

Get that crap off your machine NOW check out the Bit Torrent scene. Safe, Legal, High quality lossless audio in FLAC or SHN formats. Not Mp3 or aiff or aac and other junk. Bit torrents sites are fan based clubs that stick to non copyrighted material by artists that allow their music to be traded, Many artist do allow this (especially `70's classic and country rock artists) go to etree.org for some info and digital boots. org for some links to some great sites. I've been doing this for years w/ excellent results and no viruses or spyware/ adware issues. Neither myself or the vast majority of users would ever think about selling what we are so lucky to obtain and I would personally report anyone doing so to the proper authority. I do give my friends and aquaintances copies of things they desire (free) they usually give me a blank cd-r in return. These sites promote fan interaction and can be great places to meet other folks

Hey folks... I am having trouble playing the 32Kbps mp3's from Kazaa. The 128Kbps play fine, but that is rare on Kazaa. Any pointers? They seem to play, but no sound comes out of the speakers. 128K's play fine. I have tried Win Media Player and WINAMP. Thanks.

That's the whole point. If you are using PtP, you are sharing it. While you may have a legal copy you can't share it.

This is where most folks get confused. You really can't download it without sharing what you are downloading. As you download from the net, you are uploading (sharing) what you are bringing down. Someone else us downloading from you. That is what is illegal.

And as far as virus software... keep one thought in mind. Viruses are released almost constantly. Your virus software (anykind) may NOT protect you. First the virus has to be found by the virus software company, then they have to analyze it so that their software can eliminate it. Then they have to update your software.

This can take anywhere from a few hours to a few days or longer. Remember, it could float around the net for days before anyone discovers it. Just having an anti-virus running on your machine is NOT a failsafe.

Most programs like kazaa and others allow you to turn off sharing where you can only download from people and not re-send the files back to anyone who looks for them. If you are converting to mp3 all your cd's and such, and I've done that when I have hard-drive space, then there is no problem with downloading that which you own. If you share files with others then yes, like it was mentioned you are breaking the law, or at least the interpretation of the law right now. I am also a musician and have my music broadcasting through some of the networks like that, mostly yahoo groups I belong to. I don't expect to get famous, or make any money off of them I just hope people get enjoyment from them. Anyway that's my two cents, if you don't have change, don't worry about it.

Folks in my position, who don't want to steal, also don't want to facilitate theft, so we keep our files in a folder not accessed by the P2P networks.

There are peer to peer clients that do not utilize this
method of multi point downloading and there are those that have that you can prevent such activiy, with settings on their software.

THE VIRUS warning is most correct, avoid downloading any kind of program or executable using peer to peer and scan every file with a good virus program like AVG, immediately after or during downloading.

"As you download from the net, you are uploading (sharing) what you are bringing down."

Wow, if only the rest of Windows was so efficient.

I read a lengthy article on the confusing laws regarding legal and illegal downloading/copying. First of all, just turning off the sharing portion of your P2P doesn't make it legal. Downloading is also illegal although the RIAA considers sharing a worse offense. Secondly, regarding copying vinyl to cds, that is illegal too. The copying laws only apply to copying to a cassette tape (analog). Any copying to a digital source such as your hard drive or CD is still against the copyright laws even if you have the original record or cassette in your legal possession. If you own a CD and rip it to your hard drive, basically you have just broken the law. I think that this is ridiculous but that's what the "official" copyright laws state.

Almost, but not quite. When you download mp3's of music you already own vinyl of, you are still getting a much-higher quality recording, for free.

It's okay to make cassette copies of vinyl, and it's okay to make mp3's directly from your vinyl. That won't give you cd-quality music.

In the 1970's they passed a new law concerning audiotaping and videotaping, putting a fee/tax on blank tapes, and pooling those funds to compensate the original sellers of the music and the movies.

If you want cd-quality music, you should purchase it. No "free lunch." It's not okay to deprive the sellers of their profit.