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General discussion

10/20/06 Converting old vinyl records and tapes to digital

Oct 19, 2006 7:17AM PDT
Question:

Hello, I have a project that's been brewing for a long time and am wondering if someone out there might have a similar one. I have tons of old vinyl records and tapes that I would like to convert into digital music--DVDs, CDs, and so on. I'd like to know if someone can give me pointers as to how to do it with the least cost. Please include choice of hardware, software, and other alternatives or options. My PC consists of a Intel P4 2.4GHZ, 1GB of RAM, and 80GB of disk space. I recently purchased an external DVD/CD burner to complement my system; my OS is Windows XP Pro. If anyone can give me helpful and constructive suggestions, it would be most appreciated. Thank you very much.

Submitted by: Ferdi W.

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Answer:


Ferdi, converting vinyl records or tape to digital music is straightforward and doesn?t require anything particularly exotic in terms of hardware (details below), but it is time-consuming; you can easily find yourself spending 20 minutes per song doing a high-quality conversion from vinyl. Because of this, I usually recommend that if the music that you want is already available in digital format, that you just acquire it already converted rather than do a new conversion. In the long run, you will save a lot of time and possibly get much better quality as well. That said, many of us have songs on vinyl or tape that are not available in digital format, even if paying for them is not an issue, so at times, manual conversion is the only way to get an old audio track into a digital format.

Let?s cover the hardware first. On the computer side, you need one with a sound system and line-in jacks. That excludes most laptops (most don?t have such jacks) unless you use an add-on PC Card or USB sound card, but almost every desktop computer meets these requirements. However, if quality is important, you might want to use a computer with a high-quality sound card rather than the integrated motherboard audio systems that many PCs have these days. Don?t get me wrong, audio on the motherboard will work and can do the job, but it often doesn?t have the frequency response and freedom from electrical noise found in a more premium audio system.

The other thing that you need is a stereo system that can play the source material (Vinyl, cassette, open reel tape, 8-track, whatever) and that has ?line out? jacks. Virtually any stereo system will meet this requirement. But do note that you can?t just connect a bare turntable directly to a computer. While the level of a turntable cartridge output might be compatible with a computer?s ?Microphone? jack (if the computer supports dynamic microphones), when recordings are made on vinyl the frequency response is intentionally ?screwed up? (called ?pre-emphasis?) to counteract physical limitations of the vinyl recording process, and then the playback audio preamplifier is expected to compensate for this by feeding the sound through a ?de-emphasis? network. All tuners, receivers and amplifiers with a ?phono? input handle this internally, but there is no input on a computer that directly supports it. So you need to connect the turntable to a stereo system or at least a preamplifier with a ?phono? input and line level outputs for proper sound reproduction.

Connect the Line-out of the audio playback system to the Line-in jacks of your computer?s sound system with common stereo cables (normally having a pair of red and white RCA phono plugs) and your hardware configuration is done.

[If you want convenience and don?t mind spending some money, another solution to vinyl conversion is a ?USB Turntable? made just for vinyl to digital conversions. There is one made by Ion that is sold by Amazon (as well as other electronics outlets), and you can see information about at: http://www.amazon.com/Ion-iTTUSB-Turntable-USB-Record/dp/B000BUEMOO. This one is about $130; there may be other such products on the market as well.]

With the turntable connected to the computer, the next step is to convert the analog audio to a digital file. Basically, you play the record and record the line-in signal on the computer. It?s possible to do direct conversion to MP3 or WMA, but a more conventional approach is to do the initial capture as a ?wave? (.WAV) file, because this is more easily captured and edited. You need some software that will record the ?Line In? input of the sound card to the desired file format (whatever it is). For wave files, such software comes with virtually all computers and sound cards, and can also be bought separately if necessary. If you need a program that can do this (and a lot more), a free one that is very good is ?Audiograbber?. It is available at http://www.audiograbber.com-us.net/. This program can also perform some of the other steps about to be described. Alternatively, the full retail versions of both of the major CD recording software packages (Nero and Roxio) have software that can perform all of the steps required and described in this paragraph and below (the OEM versions of Nero and Roxio that come with computers and optical drives are stripped down and do not necessarily include these components in all cases).

When you do your first recording, you need to do some experimenting to set the ?level? (record volume) on the recording correctly so that the captured wave file is ?as loud as possible without being too loud? [technically, we want to use the full dynamic range of the sound card without clipping]. Hopefully your sound recording software has some kind of level indicator to show you what the level is and when the music is clipping. You want to turn the level up as far as you can without getting any clipping anywhere in the song (given a choice, a bit low is probably better than any setting which clips (and thereby distorts) the highest-volume passages of the material). Unfortunately, the ideal setting will vary from song to song and record to record, so some experimentation may be necessary, which may require playing or even recording the song several times. This is one of the ways in which the process can become time-consuming.

After the song is captured digitally, you may want to do some editing and cleanup. I usually trim the beginning and end and if necessary adjust the ?fade in? and ?fade out?. I also usually ?normalize? the song to get maximum dynamic range. I prefer to do this with an audio editor that has an oscilloscope-like display of the audio waveform, but exactly what you do and how you do it will depend on your skill level and on the software that you are using.

Another thing that you can do at this point (to varying degrees depending on the capabilities of the available software) is to ?fix? the recording to remove noise, clicks, pops, wow, flutter, hum, tape hiss and ?rumble?. The details of this vary with the available software, and significant cleanup may require using purchased (and potentially expensive) cleanup software. If you get too aggressive with this, also, you can ruin the material, but in some cases you can achieve dramatic results turning an old, scratchy vinyl record into something which sounds a lot more like it was originally recorded on CD. Again, this depends on your skill level, and on how much time and money (for software) you want to put into this aspect of the conversion. But even if you do no cleanup at all, you will still have a digital version that will sound no worse than the original source material.

Finally, once you have the wave file the way that you want it, you can use any number of software programs (including Audiograbber, Nero, Roxio, MusicMatch, Windows Media Player and probably software that came with your sound card) to convert the wave file to an MP3 or WMA file. Note that if you use Audiograbber to do the MP3 encoding, it requires separate installation of an MP3 codec. If you don?t have one (the full retail versions of the Nero and Roxio packages usually install one), the ?Lame? MP3 codec is well regarded and is available without cost at http://lame.sourceforge.net/.

It?s possible to capture and encode directly to MP3 or WMA in a single operation with some software products, but personally I find that I?m not happy with the results unless I can trim the start and end and normalize the file prior to encoding. Also, I recommend that you ?tag? each song so that the song information (title, artist, etc.) is actually ?in? the MP3 or WMA file and will be displayed when the song is played (on most MP3 players). For tagging, I find Winamp and MusicMatch Jukebox to be the best available tools (both are available online for free download, although both have paid (but still low-cost) ?premium? versions that can do a lot more. See http://www.winamp.com and http://www.musicmatch.com for additional information on these programs.

This should get you well on your way towards completing your conversion project.

Submitted by: Barry W. of North Canton, Ohio

Discussion is locked

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Converter for vinyl and tape to cd
Oct 21, 2006 4:42PM PDT

Has anyone else seen or used the Griffin iMike? It cost me about 35 bucks and came with Final Vinyl (C), a editing program that allows me to cut up my audio into individual tracks. It works on just about anything with a USB port (Mac or Windows) and has input & output jacks for getting audio into or out of your computer. You can also set the input impedence for Hi level (150 mV) or earphone level for your inputs. I have used it for vinyl and DVD dubbing and it produces AAC files for direct burning to cd. (By the by, you can LEGALLY convert the sound from a DVD or LP you own to a CD for your own personal use as long as you retain ownership of the original media, but you should destroy your copy if you transfer ownership of the original. i.e fair use)
Try it! iMike is made by Griffin and comes with software for both Macs & Windows. No, I don't sell them or work for anyone who does. TNX

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If converting is legal what about downloading
Oct 21, 2006 11:28PM PDT

Thanks ksunken for the advice on the legality of converting (ie it's OK for personal; use if you still have the original vinyl).
I've got an extensive vinyl collection but I sometimes think it's easier to download a copy from a free peer-to-peer file-sharing service than to convert. And my concern is whether that's legal.
The end result is the same. I've still got a copy of my original vinyl (which I'd never part with for sentimental reasons alone)and now I've got it on CD.
Effectively all that's happened is that someone else has converted a copy and I've then downloaded it.
NOTE: I'm only talking about downloading material that I already have on vinyl. Not downloading new material, as I appreciate that's another issue altogether.

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Recording Vinyl
Oct 22, 2006 7:22AM PDT

I don't think that you are thinking about people such as myself that have vinyl recordings that were made of family members in the music field who would like to get those recordings on CD. I wish there was an easier way than the methods I have heard so far. My mother played concert piano. I have many vinyl records of her that I would like to convert to digital. I think it is going to be, as the first person stated, a time-consuming task to get all of her records on CD. And my computer does not have a sound card, there is beautiful audio off of the motherboard. Also, I do not have an amplifier, I have a subwoofer and from it 5-speakers are connected. We play the records on an old record player that has a platter for the vinyl records. How do you move this kind of thing over to a digital, since you cannot hookup the record player to a digital device?

As the first person told us, it appears that I will have to spend some money and by a turntable with a USB hookup. If in fact this is the only way, then I guess I will have to bite the bullet. Happy

If anyone knows of any other way (that is faster and will spend the least money) don't keep the secret to yourself, please!! Happy

And, oh yes, thank you for all of the suggestions so far.

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You do NOT need a separate sound card
Oct 22, 2006 9:29AM PDT

I do not have a separate sound card and have transferred dozens of songs from my vinyl record collection via a standard Technics turntable through a $25 RadioShack phono preamp to my computer and burned them to flawless CDs.

Many were done on a year 2000 HP computer with 500MHz INTEL Pentium 3 processor using the standard audio input jack on the HP and using Adaptec Easy CD Creator Deluxe.

I have a newer computer now - an HP with an INTEL Pentium 4 3GHz - NO separate sound card. I have successfully transferred my audio cassettes to the hard drive and to CDs using Sonic's RECORD NOW software.


You do NOT have to spoend a fortune, but it is trial-and-error and it does take a lot of time.

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You do NOT need a separate soundcard
Oct 23, 2006 9:05AM PDT

Thank you Motorcom. You have made me a very HAPPY CAMPER!! Happy Happy Happy

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Check out DAZZLE
Oct 22, 2006 9:43AM PDT
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What's the maximum CABLE LENGTH?
Oct 21, 2006 8:45PM PDT

In all the discusssions I have read concerning this subject at various times and websites, there is one issue that seems never to have arisen, and that has to do with the maximum length of cables that can be used between the stereo and the computer.

I listen mostly to classical music. I have a "high end" stereo system that is located on the first floor of our two-story home. The computer, however, is located in a spare bedroom/home office located on the second floor. I've never measured the exact disance between them, but we can assume it is much greater than 12 feet.

My Dell desktop has an unused mini-jack line-in and my McIntosh preamplifier has at least one pair of unused RCA line-outs; I also have a collection of cables and plug adapters. I have no cable long enough to reach from the one to the other.

Is there such a thing as extra-long cables and--more important--just how long can cables be before the signal is adversely affected?

Does anyone out there know?

I have thousands of LPs and some '78s, too. Some of them are rather obscure and are highly unlikely ever to be transferred to CD commercially. I should like to transfer at least some of them, myself, then.

Thanks for any help or advice anyone may have.

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Cable length
Oct 22, 2006 9:21AM PDT

I use high quality audio cables 12' long when I use the DAZZLE Video Capture device. I use this when I'm not using the Numark USB turntable. The 12' cables go from the tape player, or a different turntable to the Video Capture Device, then USB's to the computer. The cables include an S-Video cable in case I want to transfer video and audio together, and I do not notice a reduction in quality.
My video card is a Nvidia GeForce 6600 which came with a number of special cables, but I put the cables away for safe-keeping and can't remember where.
Thank you.

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Converting vinyl records to digital
Oct 21, 2006 10:01PM PDT

One way of converting vinyl records and tapes tro digital is to come up with a software named Cakewalk Pyro. Just pluginto the audio out of your amplifier and plug the other end to the auxiliary of your sound card and presto, you can record your old vinyl recoirds and tapes to your computer. You can also convert your music to either WAV, MP3 or WMA. In recording it to a CD make use of another software, Nero to record it on CD.

Enjoy!!!

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Sheesh! What A Silly Presumption!!
Oct 22, 2006 10:11AM PDT

Who says that old and vinyl records are synonymous? I have started collecting LPs again and have found many new vinyl records, whether new-old stock or simply new LPs.

The other presumption in this is that everyone would actually be willing to take the huge audio quality hit in converting to digital format, ie. CDs. To suggest that one should even consider ripping LPs to MP3 or worse yet ITunes dynamic range crippled formats is a sad statement on the regression of musical standards that people seem be tripping over each other to accept. SAD!

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you're sad
Oct 22, 2006 1:26PM PDT

All the folks here are trying to get positive input and suggestions about one of their interests. If you don't have something positive to contribute, don't bother.

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actually, he's right
Oct 25, 2006 12:01PM PDT

converting any old lp to mp3 IS a disgrace. You've taken a source with full dynamic and frequency range and compressed the crap out of it. mp3 has as much relationship to music as two tin cans and a length of string have to telephony.

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Not an argument, but....
Oct 25, 2006 3:00PM PDT

for what most of us are trying to do, converting our vinyl to MP3 and burning to CD works just fine. I do it all the time, give the CD's to friends and they ask for more. I play the CD's when I'm driving and I'm happy with what I hear. So, even though it may not be perfect, it's good enough.
For most of us.

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vinyl to digital
Oct 25, 2006 3:28PM PDT

there ya go...it's true..mp3 format is an awful way to go and many excellent live music download sites i belong to won't allow any compressed formats..leave the vinyl full spectrum..allow your lp especially if it's been properly mastered and pressed with care to show it's true realism..having an exceptional cartridge like a benz micro ruby or better will blow your mind at what is on that vinyl..no matter how many times you've heard your lp, an above average cartridge and turntable will bring out sound and imagery that you never knew was there..enjoy dusty b.c.

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actually he's right
Oct 25, 2006 3:29PM PDT

there ya go...it's true..mp3 format is an awful way to go and many excellent live music download sites i belong to won't allow any compressed formats..leave the vinyl full spectrum..allow your lp especially if it's been properly mastered and pressed with care to show it's true realism..having an exceptional cartridge like a benz micro ruby or better will blow your mind at what is on that vinyl..no matter how many times you've heard your lp, an above average cartridge and turntable will bring out sound and imagery that you never knew was there..enjoy dusty b.c.

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What format do you recommend?
Oct 26, 2006 1:55AM PDT

I agree that MP3 has too much compression and quality loss for the best results. I've steered clear of quick-and-easy hardware that converts files to that format for this reason.

What format do you recommend? My understanding is that the WAV format works quite well.

I suppose that much depends on how you intend to use the recordings. I have a first-rate audio system in my living room and that is where I prefer to listen to my audio CDs. A friend of mine converted a mint-condition LP to an audio CD for me using the WAV format and the results were outstanding. He also put it on an audio cassette tape for me. The audio CD was significantly better than the tape.

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Re: actually, he's right
Sep 5, 2008 2:35AM PDT

"huge audio quality hit in converting to digital format, ie. CDs. To suggest that one should even consider ripping LPs to MP3 or worse yet ITunes dynamic range crippled formats"

There's no polite way of saying it. Your comments are based on ignorant prejudice. Search google for mp3 & "blind listening tests". High bit-rate mp3 files are sonically indistinguishable from CD audio. There is no crippling of dynamic range - that is based on the confusion between analog audio amplitude compression and data compression techniques.

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convert .wav to DSS
Oct 22, 2006 2:02PM PDT

Olympus delivers a program that makes .DSS files - sometimes you can download and install it without any fuss, sometime it asks you for serial number of your voice recorder. It produces high quality speech and music.
go to olympususa - downloads - D2000 or D2200

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This is the easiest way!!!
Oct 22, 2006 5:25PM PDT
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When you've finished with your old vinyl records
Oct 22, 2006 10:51PM PDT

After you've converted your records to CD, consider donating the LPs to your local Friends of the Library. Many Friends groups run sales of used books, records, CDs, etc. These are great fundraisers; and the totally volunteer organization uses the money to provide items and services for library patrons.
Helen Oram
www.BookSaleFinder.com

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Converting old Vinyl records and tapes to digital
Oct 23, 2006 4:38AM PDT

Any suggestions about doing it on Macintosh Mini, working on system 10.4.8 with all the bells and whistles including SD spin Doctor and Pro Logic, never used yet

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Separate machine for converting vinyl to CD
Oct 24, 2006 1:44AM PDT

I have seen a stand alone machine in catalogs that converts vinyl records to cds. It costs about $400.00.
Has anyone out there tried using that? Is it easier than using the computer?

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Converting Vinyl Record collections to CD's
Oct 24, 2006 2:04AM PDT

WOW! The more I read about the various methods of conversion, (vinyl to digital) the more I'm starting to wonder if it's all worth it!

Since this subject came up, I took a long, hard look at my huge collection (of vinyl records) and ''mused'' about the last time I listened to many of my albums; and I came to the conclusion, that I'm NOT going to LIVE long enough to LISTEN to every one of them, let alone CONVERT them all!!

So ... I have decided to ONLY convert favorites, and sell (or trade for CD's of favorites) the ones that no longer appeal to me.

As to WHICH method of conversion; well that's going to take a while to decide, given ALL the different ways!

But THANKS to everybody for all the ideas!

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Easiest/quickest
Oct 24, 2006 5:42AM PDT

is probably a USB turntable. I use and like Numark:
http://www.numark.com/
Be prepared; it's requires a lot of work/time.

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Converting Vinyl to CD
Oct 25, 2006 4:23AM PDT

I've converted several records to compact disc. What makes the procedure time consuming is the need to stop recording after each track because there are no digital markers (as with copying digital to digital) that normally allow recording to be done automatically. In my opinion its worth the effort. Strange as it seems, I've found the quality of recordings I've made from vinyl to have some of the open, un-compressed quality as the vinyl. This is strange given that the 'brick-wall' still exists in the recording process. My guess is that in many instances the studio recording process for copying can be less than ideal. All I can tell you is that in each case where I've recorded from vinyl, the results have been excellent, with the CD-Rs having a more open, less-compressed quality to a standard compact disc (I do have standard CDs that sound excellent though). Friends immediately recognize the difference also. I think its worth it to make copies of your vinyl collection even if the material is available on compact disc. When making copies pay attention to recording DB levels as careful monitoring and adjustment is critical to an excellent outcome.

O'Shag

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No need to stop recording...
Oct 25, 2006 5:43AM PDT

after each track. Using Audacity, you can record the entire side of an LP, or both sides if you choose, then go back and seperate the tracks during editing. Or keep the tracks all together if you choose. I don't know why you're only recording one track at a time, but that sure would be a lot more time consuming than recording the entire side. With Audacity and the Numark USB Turntable, you can even speed up your recordings and then go back and slow them down during editing. By speeding up the recording, you may only save 10 - 20 minutes per LP, but it you're doing 20 or 30 LP's, that adds up to a lot of saved time.

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Audio Cables - Purchase GOLD Connectors
Oct 31, 2006 1:54AM PST

I have converted Audiotapes since they were cheaper an at first the books were not available on CD. Then On board sound card on most computers will do the Job. But need to use high Quality Cable preferably those that are gold coated. They have less resistance and give you the best input. Bad Cable low Quality Input. You can have the best sound card and audio will be distorted compared to gold plated cables.

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For optimal quality digitize the music in the AV system
Nov 10, 2006 12:24AM PST

I'm a cheap audiofile, so sound quality is important to me, and my tapes and albums are pristine. Over a three year period I digitized around 240 high quality tapes that contained the hits of my album collection. A high quality archival digital copy was my goal. What a chore. I started with my computer, but found an outboard CD recorder to be much faster and more efficient. Here's why. Digital recorders, be it the computer or outboard recorders, can't record musical peaks past 0 DB (There may be some software that would compress the sound, but at a sonic quality cost). They cut off those peaks, reducing the quality of the recording. Vinyl albums and my tapes have significant musical peaks, and the volume level of each album, and sometimes even songs on the album are different, forcing the adjustment of the input recorder volume for each song. This is easier to adjust on an outboard CD recorder. If you don't adjust the volume and just record at a lower but safe level that records the peaks, the song volume changes between songs will be annoying. Some songs will be loud, others will be hard to hear. Sometimes I would be 1/2 way through the song and go over 0 db. My computer took forever to stop and reset to re-record the song. My outboard recorder could be stopped with its remote, and the defective song erased in something like 30 seconds.

An outboard recorder should also deliver higher quality sound because the Analog to Digital converters will be superior to that in a computer. I also purchased a professional recorder that would record on standard blank computer CDs, including CD-RWs, so I could reuse the CDs. Consumer CD recorders require more expensive blank CDs that have a royalty cost in them. I ripped the CD-RW discs into my computer for titleing and archiving onto CD-Rs.

It was a very time consuming process that I undertook because I wanted to archive the tapes, because I have quite a bit of music that still isn't out on CD, and there are all those albums with at most 2 or 3 songs you ever want to listen to again. The albums I really love I own on CD.

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A/D conversion
Jan 19, 2008 9:11AM PST

I hate to be a butthead, that that answer is so LAME it's not funny. If you want a high quality conversion, get an outboard A/D converter like Xitel's (xitel.com) InPort. It connects via RCA cables to yr amplifier, and has a USB output that goes directly to any USB enabled computer.

He was asking for cheap, but it's only like $65, and makes much better copies than the sound card in yr PC. It also comes with LP Ripper software to remove clicks and pops, and software to easily split an LP side into separate tracks, and high quality RCA cables to connect it to yr amplifier.

Cheers,

Tommy B

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Converting Vinyl to CD
Mar 7, 2009 3:40AM PST

If you need to convert your vinyl records to cds, tapes to cds or vhs to dvds you can do it yourself which will be a long process, or you can use a service such as this one.

www.mediacure.net