CNET UK Podcast
Facebook messes with your emotions in CNET UK podcast 395Facebook has owned up to manipulating moods of its users, while Uber has dodged court in the UK.
[MUSIC] Hello and welcome, you're listening to the CNet UK podcast, this is episode 395 for Friday 14 july, 2014. Trying to raise your passion, Google could get messy as bits of the web start to disappear, plus we find out how Uber has dodged court, because drivers all up into the dock. And we find that why Facebook's latest foepax is more than a feeling, I'm Rich Jornheim joining us in our brand new look high tech London studios this week is Luke hooked on a feeling Westro. How did I get here, who are you people. Where are we woke up in whole new world [CROSSTALK] and also and he's happy and he knows it Doyle. I'm very happy. Big clap, That was mine,. There were. Clapping. Yeah, so Klose, listen to the podcast, [LAUGH] this won't mean very much, but, those of you who are watching this on video, then, you'll see the new looks if you do. If you're not watching this on video, then, head to Cnet or watch it at www.youtube.com/cnet, anyways, let's kick off with the latest news. [MUSIC] So, BBC story published back in 2007, if you can imagine all that time ago If you can imagine. Way back in time. So many years ago, that has now been removed from Google's searches. Disappeared yeah, I had It's just gone, [UNKNOWN] the recent European rulings of the right to be forgotten we should talk about and at length before. And that allowed individuals, to request articles about them to be taken down. Mm. Rich, are you gonna tell. Well I believe [UNKNOWN] has something to say about this. I meant [UNKNOWN]. Yeah, so [LAUGH] [CROSSTALK] I was gonna say- [CROSSTALK] Yeah, yeah [INAUDIBLE] fix them both yeah this is a little bit to do with the strident effect which is a very interesting on-line phenomenon. Yes. Where buys named after Barbara Streisand, famous American song stretch. Seanteuse. Seanteuse, who, one point I think tried to hide some images of a house she owned from the press and trying to hide it only drew more attention to it. Mh-mm. So, the Streisand effect is when you want some information suppressed but the act of trying to suppress it ina, ina, inadvertently like, super publicises it and it because a much bigger, more well know thing. Hm-mm. And this is what om- It also makes it ten times funnier as well- Yes it does yes yeah. Beyond, say photos. Yeah, yeah absolutely. Good to go. or super injunction stuff in country, That,s right. [INAUDIBLE] Name and that is [UNKNOWN] one expert has told us I think might be about to happen here. Because google rights be forgotten, less individuals request a take down something about them they don't like. And this is one of the first examples that we've seen, is that actually being put into a practical effect. However it has blundered up massively into this huge um,story BBC immediately, the economics editor, wrote this big story, saying [CROSSTALK] my story's being banished you know. Everyone else kind of picked this up, originally it look like that story had been disappeared if you like because. The original story in 2007, was about a prominent banking boss, who was kicked out I think, at the kinda, the start of the financial crisis. Mm-hm. But now it seems it may have been because of, of a commenter, on that original 2007 page. But it looked like it could have been that particular banker might have been asking to have the story removed. Yes. But it turned out that, that they may not well be the case- Now, at least, I mean it's an evolving story, but at least at the time of recording. It seems like, it seems like that's not the case but yeah there you go. It is, uh,one guy we were, talking to, and you should read the story to kind of get all the data on this, was saying that basically what we might see is a future where there's a website of people trying to collect or collate all of the, take down requests into one place,so that you can see them. Streisand, streisand, streisand, dissecting into- Staisandland, Streisland.com. Into one super site with all of the taken downsites. Well, that it and I mean, the thing to know, as well, is this google search result in Europe, so these [UNKNOWN] can see be seen around the world. Yeah. And so, the other thing to know as well, when you see search results you'll see a little notice from google saying these results have been altered in line with particular legislation. Mm-hm. You don't know what been censored but you know something has been messed with. Yeah. We, found that didn't we, we were just busy googling our own names earlier today. Busy googling our names. And yeah, the bottom of the results, its yeah, some results may have been removed, It said may have been removed It's very vague about it. Yeah, well I think that's why people are a bit sort of ew about this because it is all very vague it's like suddenly. We never seen these thing just sort of like dropping out of the internet, and Google is like, yeah, it's gone. No questions [LAUGH] uh,so understandably people have questions. Never there, never there, Just a bag over it's head and tweaked away, alright. Yeah, things are going to get messy, what Gray concluded. well, we'll keep an eye on this, this is an interesting and developing story. So what else has happened, there's some still more legal shenanigans, isn't there? There's been a lot more legal stuff going on, yeah, so transports in London they are not, going to be taking the taxi hailing App Uber to call,a now little bit of background on this if you're not familiar. So, in London taxi drivers are angry and TFL allows Uber to operate, and they have in fact staged various protests around London by parking their cars and bringing all the roads to a standstill very very messy. Rich what is the item I don't know what the problem is? Alright so [LAUGH] well so basically what the problem is Uber is this is this new start up allows you to order a taxi or a mini cab private hire vehicle from your phone, and it comes to your location you go you pay through the app you don't have to pay the cab which sounds fantastic and it's great. It's brilliant. It sounds brilliant and it is brilliant in a lot of ways, the problem is that Uber just turned up in cities and starts operating, and kind of figures out the actual rules of regulation afterwards. And what's happened in London, I mean there's been several cities where, this has cuz a lot of controversy, and what's happening in London, if the transport authority transport for London have i will basically said, okay whatever and the cabbies are kind of angry about that. So, what TFL wanted to do was take Uber to the high court, so the high course would say once and for all, yes this is good, green light to either it's not that green light. Green light yeah traffic. So, yes but if what they what they're actually talking about today is the can't do that they can't go to the high courts because already there are legal actions against invidiaul uber drivers which has been taken out by a taxi trade body called the London taxi driver association. And until those get resolved because they're about the same issue, they can't do anything in the high court. So, they can't take it into court because they're already being, taken to court? Exactly [INAUDIBLE] but by, but by different courts. Okay. So, basically whats happening now is that the, the smaller cases, they're in the magistrates court at the moment, which are all about whether Uber technically uses a taxi meter, because only taxis, black cabs in London, are allowed to use meters. Uh,And Uber that basically used well basically meters because they calculate fares based on time and that kind of thing. They tell you the price up front car to get from here to there. Mm Yeah, so I mean there's all these talking about what technically counts as a meter or not, and coarse source it out because these smaller cases dragged these whole thing out probably gonna end up in high court anyway. But that probably won't be for a few months now, so it's all kind of up in the air. And the taxi drivers are also talking about possibly having another demonstration similar to the one where they brought London to a standstill last month and- Hashtag drama Ex, oh, yeah, it's all blowing up. [CROSSTALK] It's road rage and all sorts of things. Yeah, it's terrible, but in a lighter note, there's some more fun stuff happening in London- There's been lots of good things going on yes, the Wimbledon, tennis tournament, Hey hitting, hitting, ball. [INAUDIBLE] Great, yes knee ball. [CROSSTALK] [LAUGH] That is in full flow right now and I actually popped along to Wimbledon on Monday, to see some of the technology behind it. And it's really quite cool, you've got all the nice grass courts, but sort of deep below the surface theres these bunkers, full of computers and service. And what they're doing down there is logging every single hit to miss, foul, footstep, basic everything, even swears. Every bat, every hours out. Ever catch and jump [CROSSTALK] everything. And basically providing a mass of data, forty one million bits of data in fact. He broadcasters and to the Wimbledon website. [INAUDIBLE] Huge, huge, operation that's going on and they're all right below the surface. What I think was coolest about this having radio [UNKNOWN] which was very good and I look forward to check out, is that the data is only entered by tennis professionals because only tennis professionals are good enough to spot the, the professional tennis that's happening. [LAUGH] Yeah so they're like, you know, to a layman it might be like he's rowing with a rubbish O.A.R but you know, to a professional they go yes, no it's tennis and he's winning. Yes. Excellent tennis, very, very refined, unless however [CROSSTALK] that's good I like how that oxidants their professional player good enough to spot the subtle players but not good enough in with [CROSSTALK]. Maybe their old maybe like when you lose Wimbledon and that's like that's probably my last one getting on a bit [CROSSTALK] just come down look at the bank for a minute get in there start knocking [CROSSTALK] data. And maybe there's a good way of keeping your hand in the game. Absolutely, well there you go, that's on [UNKNOWN] .com right now. It is, go and have a look [UNKNOWN] Yeah, Wimbledon there's loads of pretty photos of people playing tennis, which yeah, which is always nice alrightt. I'm going to move on to a bit of very quick news, this is sort of kicking off as we're coming into record. HTC, big, happy news, has just posted it's first profit in rather a long time. And it's apparently made around $76 million in its June quarter. It's not a massive not a massive amount but is, would seem a step in the right direction. It's possible that the good reviews of the HCC 1m8 have actually translated into sales which wasn't really the case. With the HCC-1 that's the thing that but it could also be if we're looking at some of the companies that haven't been doing well recently. Years for example Sony was doing terribly. Yeah. And it manage to sort of crawl back some of that money and make some money but it did that by selling loads of stock off, and getting rid of, you know, getting rid of like the TV department and the laptop department. Buildings, they sold a bunch of buildings. Buildings. Exactly, they. Cuts overhead and then so it will, save it some profit, So, we don't yet example how has done this, It may have been that they just. We don't have the harsh figures. so, you know that one I made is great fun, so hopefully it's selling well absolutly Its' also worth mentioning that it's not long till the new Iphone comes along which always makes it harder for other phone manufacturers I think it's going to make it very, very difficult for it to succeed personally. Right, right. That's what you wrote in the script. Yeah [LAUGH] It's cool It's no problem. Alright and what else is going on? So, British Airways, you know, those guys, they fly planes, Rich don't daft? They've got them blankets that tell you- Britain don't know what British Airways is. [LAUGH] What a loser. They've got blankets that can tell your mood. Yeah. What they are well they're blankets, and they've got fiber OpTic running through them that connects to a neurosensor and it does all these kinds of checks, I don't know what it does. Okay. And be able to tell whether you're feeling anxious or feeling calm or might help, if you're in the mood to join the mile high club. Ooh saucy. Basically a mood ring but a blanket. I think that's disgusting you're on a plane you should be left to your own devices. You know, you should basically just be sat there, shut out the rest of the world. So what, what would you do? A man is his island. [LAUGH] I would, a man would, I would propose a blank ban. [LAUGH] ha ha, ho ho. On that note. That's why we rehearse for 15 hours a week. That's, that's why we have like a team of script writers writing all this stuff down. Yeah, they're writing this stuff live, I'm getting it in my ear blank, blanket brown, yes? [INAUDIBLE] Blank it band occupy the blank it band oh yeah Anyway speaking of moves perfectly and nicely in to this picture [MUSIC] First to get the weak things of the story and shape it into one easily supported entity of knowledge. This week we're talking about Facebook, which is in trouble for manipulating your moods. Researchers at U.S. universities teamed up with the world's biggest social network and conducted a study in 2012, called" Experimental Evidence of Massive Scale Emotional Contagion Through Social Networks. Scary stuff which involved adjusting showed up in users news feed, to see how post of friends affects what you post, It turns out that if you see a happy post you're more likely to write a happy post. Oh. [INAUDIBLE] But it works in other way too with more negative language leading to write posts with negative language too, and researchers carried out their study without telling the people in question. So, to keep this in perspective, this was done as an experiment, It wasn't some new advertising strategy, or profit driven policy to sell your private moments to the highest bidder. And only around 700,000 people were unwitting guinea pigs, which is less than [UNKNOWN] 6% of Facebook's 1.2 billion users. Well But the backlash against this emotional tinkering shows that we're not happy with Facebook messing with our mind. So, guys, how are you feeling? well, we got a piece of feedback from Byron Scott Jones. Yeah. Who says, at first I was angry, then I was sad then I was happy all for no apparent reason. Get to know Byron here. yeah, something those functions when I was right there actually had an amazing opportunity in terms of research am actually carry a millions [INAUDIBLE] looks like a puppet oh, I'd love to invest in Facebook. [LAUGH] All right, sorry Mark I've lost my place completely. Oh yeah, but yeah, they have, Facebook has access to an amazingly huge sample size, you mentioned they got like a billion users which is incredible. [CROSSTALK] Let's put that in perspective, Barb, B-A-R-B which is the UK TV ratings thing, in the UK, when we talk about TV ratings and how popular a TV show is, these are the people that provide the statistics, they monitor 11,500 people. Right. Not homes, people, that's all the people and that is a fraction of the. 700,000 who were gonna experimented on in this experiment [INAUDIBLE] it's unethical and they shouldn't have done it. And that itself is a fraction of Facebook's total users so, Facebook, I think it's worth pointing out that Facebook, if it chose to use this for good and did it responsibly, responsibly, does have access to an unprecedented in all of human history sample size It could do really, really important psychological research. Right. Responsibly. Well rather than just seeing what advert you got to click on. Okay yeah well i mean Andy how do you feel about this. So, it will be weird because psychology experiments they are always suppose to you have participants who agreed in advance to take part, that's what's called informed consent. We tick the box in the terms and conditions when we signed up. Well that's true but it [CROSSTALK]. we all read that right [CROSSTALK] I've got it tattooed on my stomach. I thought that is I was just gross body hair, [LAUGH] but it is the case with some experience arguably such as this one that people do know they're involved, the expected effect that you're looking for won't happen. Right it will be meaningful results. Yeah people know what what's going on, and there was a famous experiment by a guy named Milgrim. Who had an experiment that all of their participants get increasingly high electric shocks, as a punishment to what they thought was another participant who they couldn't see in another room,when a wrong answer was given to a question. Shocking. Now many of the participants did show signs of distress, as they though they were actually doing real harm to somebody else. But did continue to give shock up to and beyond a lethal level even when the shocks were met with fake screams of pain. This does sounds really nasty and unpleasant and everything and bad. But it has been a crucial piece of research into how easily people will justify doing bad, things by just saying well I was just following orders. There are the orders I was given, I was told what to do and that has been a very common argument for the Nazi war criminals when they were on trial- A type of podcast is run basically I'm following order. You're just following orders, Nate. I'm just trying to do what I'm told. You mean a sick social experiment. [LAUGH]. Now the point is that that study couldn't have been done if the participants were properly informed, and it seems that there are no other ways to conduct, often critical research. Now, well the goals of the research are important enough in Facebook's case, to justify breaking these rules, that is a different matter. Well, absolutely yeah, yeah. well, Laurel Lee Mayo says on Facebook, most importantly, they never debriefed the nearly 700,000 subjects after the research was completed to ensure there was no damage done to the participants, especially participants who might be struggling with mental health issues. That's a good point, I mean, this is just like a huge sample of people who are kind of, had their moods meddled with and then Facebook I mean, I think it's one thing not telling them this happened, but you know like, even Derren Brown pops up afterwards and says I did that. Well, how would we know if he didn't, though? Well, debriefing is, is one of the key things that for people who are legally conducting research, they do have to do that, and with Milgram. They always participants where depraved themselves you did know how, its before is just what happened [UNKNOWN] what if they depress someone to the point sucide, which is a same point in us because in some times you can be in a situation where a little bit of Pedalling with your move wrong sight from the friend in wrong time, and you I think he was pretty irresponsible. It's entirely is but what i kind of wonder as well, with all this feedback we just heard from, from readers and listeners is that we all go that most through Facebook. Yes. Which makes me wonder what does Facebook have to do to make you quit. I don't know. You look at the main disaster's, that they been through before the number of times sold our data and changed our privacy settings. Mm-hm. All that kind of thing what are the, why, why can't we quit you Facebook? Why can't we quit you [UNKNOWN]? Because it's just so great looking. [LAUGH]. Wedding photos, all those things. Yeah that too. Just love. Love it. Yeah. Love it. David Urban says, " I find it interesting that people are getting upset now, when for the longest time, they've been giving you updates based on an algorithm that tells you what you might be interested in seeing and when,that is a very good point actually, because your news feed and actually Facebook pointed this out In their response. That basically your news feed, what you're actually see in your news feed if you're on Facebook ,is only a fraction of the things that your friends are doing. It's already doing all of these algorithms [INAUDIBLE] behind the scenes to, put stuff you think you'd be interested in based on things like the friends you talk to the most things like that- People who talk about their baby [CROSSTALK]. Yeah. There's already a lot of manipulation in place but obviously this does slightly overstep the line, because, you know, well, for all the reasons we discussed. Uh, Miss Uh, Mammata isn't bothered, though, writing on Facebook, it's all them, baby. That's the right attitude, [CROSSTALK] Are you upset, has your privacy been invaded? all there. Yeah, yeah, they were in charge of our lives. [CROSSTALK] So, Facebook's second in command, Sheryl Sandberg came back and said we never meant to upset you, but surely that was exactly what the study tried to do, It made to upset you a bit, but also then cheer you up again, then you upset you. Upset you and then see if you did sad thing. [LAUGH] Great,great [INAUDIBLE]. So, sandberg has expressed regret that this mood manipulation was poorly communicated, and has apologized for that poor communication but not crucially for the test itself. So, it seems that Elton John and Blue were right, sorry is the hardest word on that note it's time for this weeks quiz. So, this week's quiz on the subject of apologies, I'm gonna read out an apology. Okay. I want you to tell me which technology giant was groveling for our forgiveness [LAUGH]. All right. All right, so buzzers time, Luke's sounds like this. [CROSSTALK] There we go. And Andy's sounds like this. [NOISE] [LAUGH] Perfect okay [CROSSTALK] you can buzz in whoever for this particular quiz you can buzz in whenever you feel like. Thank you very much. [CROSSTALK]. That was a little soon then you've got to go now give me your best guess. oh, Apple. 1066 Oh humbug. It is not right but you get, you should hear it you hear it. Uh,So question one, this is an apology from a famous technology company. Okay. A member of our team accidentally removed something you posted. This was mistake and we sincerely apologize for this error. That's, this was mistake, not this was a mistake, this was mistake, so you gonna go for it? Gonna go for it, gonna have a go? Who was it? Was it Twitter? I,m fraid not, it was Facebook and that was when they removed a picture of a breastfeeding mother. Okay. Okay. Why didn't I get to guess at that? Yeah. You, you got your guess. Oh, it was my guess. I see what you did. Ooh,. That's what happens when you plug it in. Amazing. Okay, that's so sad. More tough than fair, [CROSSTALK] but still half way fair. Apology number two, we strive to make world class products that deliver the best experience possible to our consumers Luke apple but i believe that is the Apple maps apology. That is true. Yes. Call all customers, you can try alternatives by downloading Apps like Bing, MapQuest and [UNKNOWN]. That's so much time that I spend writing out that apology. That was apple bot's Tim Cook when apple maps turned out to be rubbish. And question number three, I want to apologize both personally and behalf of the company for any anxiety that we caused you. I know the secure way you enjoy most, connecting with games connect and gaming with friends all over the world, probably that was heard again. Much slow and the. [LAUGH]. it went from horse in 45 where I am getting some standard on to, on to moaning with tiredness sound one,. Love making sound one I believe is what it says. It is, [CROSSTALK] I tried to get out of that one. [CROSSTALK] Kick him off, don't let him keep going. My answer is EA [CROSSTALK] [INAUDIBLE] [CROSSTALK] The answer for that one was Sony do you remember the original massive [CROSSTALK] yes absolutely. [UNKNOWN] that's a tie break situation. well that was gonna be the tie breaker Situation actually, if this had tied, If Andy had for example got that question correct instead of saying EA, because you were talking about Sim's, right? I was talking about the Sims. Yeah. Oh wait, so he didn't get it right. He didn't get it right. So, that means I won. That does mean you won. Ooh. [LAUGH] Success so that settles it Luke is sorry, not sorry. Wait wait, one more, one more And there we go okay good. Well done me. Well done you so that's the point for Luke congratulations is that your first win? My first win yeah. [CROSSTALK] He deserves it. You've all got score on the board now we'll come back next week and see how the quiz continues, anyways for now lets move on and see what talking about in our feedback. [MUSIC] Liam K says what improvements has Google made to glass, from when they released the Explorer edition in America up til now when they've released it in the UK so basically- What haven't they improved? What haven't they improved? [LAUGH] It just keeps getting better and better that's [UNKNOWN]. Oh, wait, the other one. I believe that it got double the RAM, that's two gigabyte of RAM It is quite impressive for a thing that's next to your ear. That just sat right there also when it launched in the UK the other week. There were a bunch of UK Apps that came with it so,the guarding and also Shazam. Mm. It is only available in the UK so, if you want to name that tune then you have to do it in Britain. [CROSSTALK] Hard luck Americans yeah. Laurens Arasmith says come September when they get announced and released, I've got to make a choice between the iPhone six and the galaxy note four- choise that? The iPhone for ages and know they're pretty reliable and the builds great. Are Samsung's reliable though and are they quality built phones, I don't want to get one and then a couple months later have to send it back because a buttons broken, probably not the best question you'll get but if I change the notes, quite a big change for me. Actually, [CROSSTALK] [INAUDIBLE] is so down. Yeah, that may well be the best question that we've got this week. Yeah, it's not. [LAUGH]. I mean, Only kidding. And then, You have some thoughts on this. I do have some thoughts on this um,so one thing, on Apple's ecosystem, if you've already gotten an iPhone, you've already, spent all this money on Apps and you've got, maybe you've got some other Apple services and you've got your in tunes, sticking with apple is the easiest way to go. Mm-hm. Plus with hardware wise, you're talking about reliability and things Apple stuff generally is, is more reliable my Galaxy S5 is, is still, It's still physically fine, but I've noticed that it has slowed down a lot. And I'm back to doing a complete focus and restore and try to bring it back up to speed a little bit. Sometimes felt like throwing at the wolf? Yeah, dunking it [INAUDIBLE] realy washing it down. [LAUGH] Hitting it in there with a screwdriver, well so it's the reason Lawrence that you're thinking of changing it is because you want a bigger screen, [INAUDIBLE] There are rumours that there will be a bigger iPhone. So, maybe that can come along and solve all your problems. David [UNKNOWN] on email says, I'm not a hardcore gamer so I don't want a keyboard that looks like it dropped off an alien mothership. I'm not using, not gonna be using this keyboard, this is keyboard buying advice if you haven't caught that. Yeah. I'm not using it in the living room so I don't want a trackpad, or [UNKNOWN] Solar charging glass top. Not writing a novel and I don't even want [UNKNOWN] as a house brick with mechanical keys. He's, he's written quite a lot, I think he might be wearing a [INAUDIBLE] this is this is [UNKNOWN]. Yeah, so I mean, David, it looks like your current keyboard is fine [LAUGH], cuz your grammar is, is good and it's all. I'm a lot worse [UNKNOWN]. It seems like the typical desktop user has been forgotten says David the original Logitech [UNKNOWN] years ago, and that was great. I could get an Apple keyboard but I am PC user and my PC tower and monitor is black, I could get the standard five pound dell you get free but there must be something better than that. They have a shopping list of things you would like including wireless, a number pad, illuminated keys as a bonus, that could be good. Alright the number pad is optional. So, I've got a couple of suggestions Microsoft, believe it or not, actually makes pretty good hardware. You might want to check out the Microsoft wireless keyboard 800, 25 quid. It's wireless, it's black, It's not blue tooth though. You can also check out the Logitech K800 wireless illuminated, is actually what it's called Weird name as it is. Which is sound wise illuminated and black, it takes all the boxes but that costs 90 pounds Pricy. There you go. Yeah. Rich Bird, amazing name, say's is it worth getting an Androidware device, does the price versus functionality mean value for early adopters? Early adoption can cause problems, I'm thinking for example of, Windows phone, If you bought a Windows Phone in the first year that they were out, then it became incapable of being updated to Windows Phone eight when that came out. Never remind me, I don't like to talk about that time those were dark times. Yes we get, we get through it together support network is key. Yeah it's and Samsung as well, people were a bit upset that, that Galaxy Gears came out so- Yeah, they came out and. Students, yeah, use Galaxy Gears It's the first one with ties and now they're replacing that one with Android Ware. I would say you're probably safe to wait a little bit, some of the- Mm. Some of the Android Ware seems to look really cool but you know- But what about this generation though, Andy, what, what do you think of this current generation, they missing anything egregious? no, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with them as far as we can tell so far and we have only so, had fairly limited time since they were all announced at Google IO. All kind of all kind of fine nothing wrong with reception they've [INAUDIBLE] standard like the moment they are like a bit splash resistant but I think really what more handy for a watch if it's completely water proof that you can still take it in bath that you can mean particularly for health Apps and things that might be quite important running in the rain and I'm not even worried about it at all Yeah, I think it's just, it's just gonna be more exciting when we see the developments. The most exciting one of the three I've seen so far, the Motorola, the Moto360, go around, **** around, Oh yes. Screen rough in square one. Yeah cool. Looks a bit fun. Okay. Alright keep the feedback coming everyone, by emailing us at our email address firstname.lastname@example.org. Okay cool well that's it for this week yeah so thank you very much Andy link thanks to our producer Mark who you'll never see. We're off to post some picture of kittens on Facebook to cheer everybody up. Bye. [MUSIC]