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Ep. 93: Netflix, Dish, and Facebook rewrite the video marketplaceIt's been a big news week for video and movies on the Web. Netflix split apart, Dish announced Blockbuster-branded video services, and then Facebook introduced social video players. We discuss the changes with Ryan Lawler of GigaOm and Andrew Wallenstein...
-- brought up to reporters' roundtable -- Italy in San Francisco. It has been a very very big week in the world of video and streaming media. At least on the web it has been first Netflix split into two companies Netflix and what does Leo and -- -- after -- -- thank you. After. Raising rates and losing stars thanks a lot Netflix then we have Facebook's developer conference -- -- which was yesterday for watching this live. Where other social platform company announced this thing called likely engagement where instead of liking a video that you're watching you can just watch. So you don't have to commit. So much and that information is gonna be all over the site -- -- -- able to avoid. And then today. Dish which about five months cobalt blockbuster. Announced the blockbuster movie -- which appears to be a direct Netflix competitor. On top of all the stuff you have. In the background this a mass of what are called cord cutters which of people out there trying to dump their cable subscriptions and go to the streaming world. But they're sometimes finding it difficult. So there's a lot going on. Has been locker for a while but this week -- has just been inundated with news in this in this world so -- Let's discuss shall we. We have great guests today first sitting across from me from GigaOM which is literally across the street from CNET Ryan Lawler Souza staff writer there thanks for coming in -- thanks for -- And then joining us via the magic of Skype the TV editor at variety. Andrew -- -- Andrew thanks for dialing in. If you are right let's get started. Why the -- Netflix split up what is up without the dumbest thing -- the smartest thing ever you know. A it it's it's difficult to. Tenet's account Reed Hastings out but I I I think everybody is really confused by the -- -- It just seemed so who out of left field. I don't know and -- do you have do you have any guesses what -- -- It's it's equal part genius and madness -- gauging from their reactions online you know I I think it's good to speak to the genius piece of the equation. There is this sense that I think Reed Hastings believes that the dvd business is basically an albatross around his neck and the sooner it gets rid of it the more He could focus on streaming. The true future of the business and that's in arguable. The problem is is that the -- dvd is still tremendous though declining. And it's not as if Netflix really has that credit -- ten selection by streaming especially after losing some pretty key content -- stars deal. Right now I heard it was it was Bill Gurley if we get this right and above the crowd be billed as a venture capitalist He wrote this great -- was to -- guessing this. Where He He. Explained what He thinks is the reason that they split apart which has everything to do with the licensing. Where dvds had you have the right of first sale by inviting media -- to -- that I can rent -- I can you know. Whatever streaming is a completely different licensing system and they're they're. There are per user charges that these companies like -- commitments are getting does that resonate. Ryan Andrew well I think -- I think that you know operationally they have already -- split into two. And his plans were announced months ago when they when they raise prices may have that the price hike they said. You know streaming is going to be one business. Dvds going to be another and operate separately a dvd has its own management there and San Jose and Apple's -- some. So from that perspective you know. They had already done that what's really confusing about this is is the fact that they re branded the dvd business. Would they didn't necessarily have to. And they're actually going to be breaking out accounts of people have different ratings. You -- the two it will have different web sites that won't play well with each other. And that that -- where things get confusing because one of the one of the advantages of having both businesses was you know -- streaming. Was immediate but they didn't have a huge library room. But you know if your Netflix user you could always you know go to the dvd section -- -- dvd mailed to you. Now I have to Google -- different site you've got a whole different billing relationship. We asked what's it. And that's exactly my point there is nothing that is customer friendly. About America understand the splitting up the business -- -- but splitting up your credit card bills and your queues right that's customer hostile and Reed Hastings -- but He slang for make this decision could not He. Past who have known that that would have pissed off -- its customers -- -- Oh yeah -- press enter what's what's going on here when you really get down to it is there -- some sort of disconnect. Between. The ideals that Netflix and Reed Hastings want -- -- and music to the ideals. -- -- Things make sense but then there's execution and strategy. Which from a public relations perspective has been a disaster. From certain everything from not securing the right Twitter feed for the new company. To making sure that these shoes -- together there's certain to strategic article the minutia but they're not the big picture and I think. Reed Hastings needs some help he's -- that He is the wrong ideas it's just that. Some of the executions really lacking. Com speaking of of execs fusion the stars -- -- their contract -- -- who's who terminated contract with the stars -- -- Yes stars came out and said you know -- done world were not negotiating their it's too -- divide. When our contract lapses in February. We're taking there content off -- off Netflix now how important to Netflix and to Netflix has customers is losing that stars library. You know I I personally feel that it's. It it's not that important I mean when you get Netflix years you're not necessarily going for. You know the new is the latest the greatest content. A lot of what they have to recommend is you know long tail content and that's that's. The majority of what people go and watch I think I saw somewhere. 60% of all their streaming happens based upon recommendations not necessarily people. Going there are looking for certain title. And when the whole thing came about every -- and said. You know the store's library accounted for -- 6%. Of all viewing so. -- a tremendously large. Percentage of the viewing community in the big scheme but I think that the amount that's stars wanted. For that content was just too much it's. Enter your data Hollywood it was -- A reaction. Down there in in the heart of this industry to the -- happening there are on happening. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Maybe he's right and -- entirely. But you're sort of an interesting subplot to follow this week if you saw another Netflix executive David Wells CFO on at the Goldman Sachs conference bleached He made an interest in commenting kind of contradict the conventional wisdom on Netflix and it bears watching where obviously what do we know -- Netflix is a subscription product. One price it's all in all this long tail content -- David Wells very clearly indicated. That Netflix is suddenly. I wouldn't say that they committed to it but they are open to looks -- doing sort of the conventional DOD that would get them newer titles would be ala -- as opposed to monthly subscription offering obviously I'm reading a little into the details but go back and -- the transcripts. Netflix. Indicated a real strategic. Change could be in the offing and it really bears watching and it's only that I think was really obscure. Because it was piled under by a lot of the other news from Netflix and other players in space this week. That's a topic streaming vs renting or buying it that I want it or subscribing is right -- by gonna wanna get -- a little bit here. No one of the things that these. Netflix moves mechanical missteps as you know for all we know -- strategically brilliant -- but. I doubt it but we'll say -- for all these moves and netbooks made they have. Opened the eyes of their customers up to competitors. One of those competitors. Is blockbuster which was acquired by dish and this morning in probably the most dreary press conference of all history of computer -- Dish announce they're rolling out this thing called the blockbuster movie past -- right you're there. Yet yes there at the announcement that it if you don't mind and we work for the -- registry should give us the reporting and that what is that in a nutshell it it -- Blockbuster movie pass is the idea behind it is that. You've got the dvd by mail service switches you -- -- 100000. Dvd titles. -- guide 4000 or 5000. Streaming titles. -- Altogether this will be available to you for ten dollars a month. But here's the catch. If you're a DISH Network subscriber -- and if you have a certain you know. Internet connected set top box actually access it. So. You know it's only available to people that -- -- subscribe to dish -- might wanna subscribe to -- So it's not really a direct competitor to Netflix I think a lot of people looked at. You know the streaming announcement coming up and -- Expected that this would be a standalone product just over the top but really it's been -- -- packaged with their satellite. Service. And through any any comments on a blockbuster movie pass. -- full agreement with Ryan this is not the Netflix killer that everyone was expecting and I think -- really speaks more -- the market and we media types. And our expectations were all just spoiling for a fight we all see Netflix. On the ropes for the first time and knows how long and we're just kind dying for someone else to come along and validate. The competition that analysts have been talking about for months and months he's coming but is really. Almost like a phantom I mean. Whether you're Amazon -- -- Hulu the fact is Netflix has a massive lead in this space and all the talk about competition. Not. Quite here yet. And I think people were really looking for dish which -- been talking a lot of slack on a lot of different levels. Let's not forget there are also perhaps acquiring Hulu and eighty getting some wireless spectrum I think people were hoping dish would actually as aggressive as they sounded lately and this is more really just -- -- -- For current subscribers. I think look -- -- -- forgotten by about this -- Week yet it does seem a little bit in some ways like of DOD thing branded blockbuster. It's almost like a Reuben sandwich where it's as if blockbuster and dish sat around -- meeting relied. Let's just say everything we -- -- -- it together actually. And charge an extra ten dollars. I don't even know we'll -- the Netflix. I don't know that there is a consumer demand for the kind of giant -- which they're offering here -- I just don't eat it it's too complicated product I think and yet to your blockbuster tell it it's this very. TV everywhere dvd by malware exchange in the stores I mean it's amusing to see how they market what is is really kind of this mess. If you see that the advertising that advertisements were pretty bad they were horrible and they're really I don't you have probably don't have queued up along the first stab at they showed was the guys in successively larger cowboy hats and moustache is now. I can't either over what they were talking about it is the -- is -- -- -- But I just -- I went and come back to this because. You know I I think that's you know as a value latter as -- -- so this product it's it's not going to make people subscribe -- To -- I mean you know -- signing up for forty bucks. You if they add on dvd by now I I just don't think that that is. Consumer. Friendly service that it is gonna change things -- -- and I would disagree with that because I think what there would dish is trying to do here is reach out to the cord cutters the types that would go for Netflix and say look we've got it all here in one package where the music game changer in terms that -- not sell well no but. I understand the rationale. So before we we move into FaceBook -- -- and cork court orders and in more detail I wanna talk about potential competitors. With companies that are out there right now doing taking some of Netflix -- Netflix is business. Amazon red box Apple etc. -- -- -- gets the consumer and has the best chance of picking up the crumbs that Netflix is dropping when -- and north some of their customers. I think I think immediately Amazon and red boxes are the ones that's an indefinite. The most I mean -- Amazon is is great just because they already have the consumer relationship. And allow people that subscribe to Amazon prime innovative and I've been watching the videos yet but they have access to it there are already paying the eighty dollars a year whatever it is. So you know they already have that installed -- its. And bread box you know this is it's it's easy it's simple it's in your -- -- And you know it's an impulse buy it. I think that they stand to benefit immediately from in peoples are turning off the dvd -- announcer. Great I take a much dimmer view of -- competitive landscape began its its its. So much more about the potential for competition -- the reality of it I think for Amazon at this juncture. This is really just a value add for their crimes ridership it's almost as -- video is an afterthought. Red box yes I ain't you know I think the kiosk business is very easily. Under rated but let's also not forget that red box has been doing this in a full dance now. Quarter after quarter where they're like well. Maybe you'll get into the digital space and it's absolutely tragic that they don't already have a product out there because they're so well positioned I mean they're better position than blockbuster. -- Well look there there's still waiting for -- for the for the right partner to come along. Look far -- -- to argue with my guests here I'd rather have you argue with each other but. And you now look. I have that and Netflix streaming subscription and I have an Amazon com and Amazon subscriber. Pride despair about whatever -- -- the prime description doesn't really matter appoint his. When I wanna watch a movie. If Netflix doesn't have it enough of the on streaming -- -- dvds that's so you know last year. Amazon sometimes those are Apple does through iTunes rental or buying and for me and it makes me wonder why I'm paying -- recurring fee for Netflix don't you think they're vulnerable that -- service that -- structure. The problem is is that Amazon doesn't have anywhere near the library Netflix does and that's why someone like yourself and many people out there may be looking at multiple subscriptions which is ridiculous yes it's all the more of the point -- I think what really needs to happen to really start -- the waters in this marketplace and make it real competition with Netflix she is someone needs to come along and -- very significant library would I would love to see is that very movies that -- Netflix and stars could not come to terms with. To see an Amazon or Hulu step in and take that in. That would send such a shot across the ballot Netflix would wake up the marketplace. I just don't know organist -- that deal I think yeah. -- Apple the company that were all waiting to it to be going to put this giant -- down in the space and do exactly what you're talking about I mean they've been talking about for -- time you know they've been. Reportedly trying to dented. Gets people on board with the subscription service but it just doesn't seem like it's ever gone anywhere -- Actually now what's going on with Hulu we've talked about the little but not directly are they about to get bought. Are we CBS I would think where the -- that hold -- CBS says the company doesn't do deals with Hulu. I wouldn't be funny -- CVS turned out to buy -- they're actually probably the only company hasn't been rumored. It's it's kind of less is sensible time right now where. There's been clearly some companies that are stepping up in May -- interest it. Group goal. DISH Network they're back in this race again. And it's going to be using not only is He who ends up with -- and by the way it's quite possible Hulu goes nowhere and there's -- arguments you made the content companies should she finished let you know I think there's also the sense of what are you buying when you get Hulu the -- ten deals that are going to be a harder this. It's -- -- absolutely T that there is longer term as possible or comprehensive as possible. And then when you throw in TV everywhere you -- the deal that fox now as with Hulu where you need DISH Network subscriber to get next day access. I mean clarifying what on earth Hulu is once this acquisition happens if -- happens is going to be very its its its nests. Now there are couple services. Like you said fox with Hulu and HBO go. They have this really interest thing navy's interest in products I heck I'm an HBO subscribers -- HBO go. HBO go is one of the most fun nominal Internet based services I've ever seen okay hang on are we gonna pause for minute. Okay a -- goes one of the most phenomenal service is -- ever seen. Com. Everything on HBO's available on my computer. On my iPad and I absolutely love it but. The only leaking HBO go is if you're already a cable subscriber. And that's eighty bucks a month. And then you have any additional ten or fifteen or whatever it is for her. The premium service for it to secure -- -- while I mean. It in addition to being cable subscribers are also paying more for the premium cable -- right so. That's the question I have is at what point do the people who were on the spreadsheets at HBO and fish or fox or whatever. Realize that. What is -- going to make sense to offer the court -- gonna talk about briefly share. An Internet only version of their services than they don't have to pay the cable companies is that ever going to happen. -- and I mean when you look at HBO go it's they're they're positioned to do it today it you know if they wanted to. If they really want to (%expletive) off all the distributors they could they could just say -- we're gonna get straight to consumer program make this crisis ten bucks a month. You know many have access to on the HBO programming I don't think -- the -- yet where they would have enough. A big enough customer base. To you know make up whatever losses -- they might incur. It lets not forget. The billions of dollars at Comcast and DirecTV of the world. Due to age via until digital -- anywhere in new year making up for that. They're not going anywhere and -- -- -- will be tethered to the original Linear product. I think for quite some time and and just a sad fact of the matter it just makes if you're HBO does not make sense. Anywhere -- -- short term and possibly the long term. To break free from the distributors that really you know are -- -- while. -- it but there's -- but consumers now. Are. I mean used to be happy to pay for cable or HBO because it was great content giving -- couldn't get anywhere else now they're seeing. This better Internet service and granted there are already paying -- There's a disconnect happening with that perceived value. Well I think I think that the thing in terms of HBO and and by the way. You know now that they have HBO go. In its. It's tied to cable here of a nicer incremental thing for -- -- You know they can take this around the world and -- doing it in certain certain markets where they are going direct to consumer. With that content. -- You know -- in terms of the cord cutters I mean I think it's pretty much I think it's pretty clear that what you get with Netflix where you get with Hulu plus or where you get with any of the eight dollar month you know eighty dollar a year. Amazon prime know is -- it's not. And in a time where you know a lot of people are hurting a lot people are struggling. And you know in the economy is. Hurting. The cable. Industry more than anything else -- them. Yeah I mean you you can look at -- cutting and one or two ways and certainly the cable operators -- -- similar. Is often used as conventional wisdom on the tech blogs that cord cutters represented some sort of new generation that wants to throw off the shackles of their extensive. Cable subscriptions and just do everything digital. You know there's just as much evidence -- not -- that this is strictly an economic consideration. It's all well and good to say I'm gonna live on Netflix. And Netflix alone but think of all the great content we're not going to get. And never going to get sports news -- -- its first crack at great prime time programming. Both broadcasts -- really not broadcast and cable. It's just it's incomparable and I I just don't put much stock in -- cutting is being anything more than a French phenomenon. Will say are well I I think Ed Pratt I do you have a point -- that I mean. Intensive you know where the economy is right now and -- and people that are. You know that are choosing not to go Kate why I think. You know it's a certain extent. We're looking at it serve the wrong way which is. You know we're looking at this isn't as an argument you know is it is it purely economic is that because you know these people are cord cutters and their. They're young -- there they're trying to get their content elsewhere. Either way I mean the net effect is the same keep or you know hooking up antennas to their TV in -- paying for cable and they're going online. -- you know regardless of of the reasons for that really what that tells me is that they're not finding cable to be quite the value that the that they used to think -- well let's. Ryan doing anything it's a matter of time before -- it's this sleeping monster recall TV everywhere. Starts to really many cable any. Digital value proposition as well I think after years of talk from the jet -- of the world they are actually starting to walk. We are seeing more and more and we saw this actually in addition announcement today where a lot of the content. That wasn't being made available. Previously online through your cable subscription is slowly. Frustrating slowly getting there and perhaps once that's what's once that is in place. The services that so called cord cutters are flocking to you are gonna have more competition. Did you just reverse your position there among amateur. Us up you are saying the -- cutting wasn't. A serious threat to the cable industry -- right you're just saying it's getting much much better. -- not -- of -- terms of what's getting much better is the offering -- -- -- still may mean that economically people are gonna want apartheid and that it but it's sleazy cable operators are shortest filling in -- digital gap that so far they've really done a terrible job still. -- -- -- -- -- Not -- let's say speaking of shackles and let's talk about FaceBook I got -- activity. The FaceBook announcement yesterday. -- it was a fascinating. -- a crime -- repair NFA even just watching I was there. Are surely is amazing I mean. Would Mark Zuckerberg is talking about. Is such a sea change in the way I think people are used to relating to each other even putting out the calm and -- just in terms of the expansion of the open graph right but then when you -- into this this new set of acts that the Netflix -- -- lose of the world are going to introduce that could make these social networks. Hall for -- -- -- it has tremendous implications but. Let's just not at least in my opinion. At this juncture it's almost surely -- without a well -- attached. What I want to ask you guys about is is. How social do we think consuming video content is I mean there are these YouTube parties -- scene apparently just that there aren't too little to ever be invited to I don't know. Where I mean people used to watch TV by sitting around with unique is our only -- to your house for -- people used to listen to radio by sitting around the radio altogether at the royal recorders everything was live and there's only one radio you could afford -- -- her family now. Is FaceBook going to bring back a social component to consuming media that we are in the process of losing. -- -- Aren't just gonna say I you know the argument that -- always me whenever I talked -- about social media and social it is that. You know TV is always been inherently social. Ends the you know technology is now just making it easier for -- -- to be social with someone you know across country -- around the world. Around same continent you don't necessarily have to be in this memory and you don't have been the same family. So you basically just extending now. The same behavior is that it's people always participated in and around around us media. -- Yes I agree area Ryan saying. On the other hand I think the kind of behavior facial is expecting to take place this notion that you know you that three of us might be huddled around our various pages. Looking at the same contents or. You know I'll click on something Ryan's watching and I may comment on it and send it over you. It's just so hard for me to believe that that becomes sort about critical mass -- you're I think it will be more on the fringes. Yet I I have to acknowledge the end of the day if there is anyone who can mainstream that type behavior it's FaceBook. And I and I am -- I have two points out that I mean first of all you know I think -- in the future. Content discovery will will become inherently social movement and -- -- social media and we're seeing that all already. And and things like Facebook's open -- just just make it. Make it easier I mean we think about just word -- in general. That's how most people find out about new music or or new TV shows and so this is just one -- that extension of that. In other point I just -- to make about s.'s. I mean you've been covering industries in this remind you a lot of beacon. Yet -- just -- this this is just. They they mark will never give up on beacon and this is beacon again this is like result in the side -- Leo it's a re imagining of a of the same concept. And I think it's funny that you know serve the the privacy concerns that words you know it's so huge in 2007 or 2000 name whenever. That came around and it led to in class action lawsuits and that the blockbuster. Thing blockbuster got -- it in class action lawsuit for people sharing information. About there rental histories. Take away at all these concerns we had three years ago for years ago it. -- -- Go out and -- look at it less from me granted there could be some real legal issues -- -- actually surprised they haven't popped up already. I'm more fascinated by the behavioral. Implications here. You know. Well I think your television the phrase guilty pleasure pops into my mind I like to watch shows it may be I don't feel like -- of my friends writer -- that I want change so. Let's put aside legal and -- just ask. Do I really want my every entertainment choice. Wrought and cast -- -- friends. You know I I really hope I and given some sort of you know. So elected are out. Functionality. -- -- will give me a little control also. I don't sell items on her watching -- immaterial all the time but you know I -- -- -- -- disagree -- -- Ryan was saying earlier about content discovery. Being inherently social I -- I certainly is to some extent but I don't know. If it's as fundamental. To content discovery -- content consumption is Mark Zuckerberg seems to think it. The idea of what Zuckerberg was calling the lightweight engagement which is like I'm watching reading and cooking -- doing this as opposed to I'm -- which is a judgment. Is key to what's happening at FaceBook and Andrew aren't armed with few on this I turned on this modify connection to FaceBook even so -- -- -- start to play a tune it showed up my mind. Eat whatever thing. And I immediately. Had to figure it out. How to but I turned it off because you know a -- in the Cat Stevens that's nobody's business but march. And they aren't saying and I actually and I don't want that happening without me being aware of -- nonetheless in -- -- watching in my FaceBook I'm seeing when all these are the people playing a what is. The people have no shame well that's what I meant and it's also getting off topic but it also -- It's also in industries -- way and this is something people don't really talk about Apple awful lot but it's also complicated by the idea of people sharing -- right. I mean I share my account I share my Netflix account with my girlfriend and you know I'll I'll show up one day in and she we'll watch a whole bunch sponge Bob best episodes and so -- -- have. Fairly odd parents and my recommendations or whatever. Or. You know and and so it reminds me of that what was -- -- Tivo thinks I'm gay or on. I have something. Something like that but -- ambiance and like that and then. You know if you do you share accounts whether it be. Through Netflix -- through Hulu or through any of these services that it. You've opted in -- then your friends going to you know think -- big sponge Bob fan there if maybe you know someone else in your family may be your child because. And today it doesn't really. Have enough intelligence to break -- You know. One it's one user per account -- at some point -- to change. Less -- and ask you guys about this might apply more to music -- to movie and television but I I think it's it's somewhat relevant here. Are we moving away from a -- A cultural we expect to owner media to a culture where we lease. 99 for a movie. And what does that mean if we are doing there. -- I think you're asking the single biggest question. Hollywood studios are asking themselves right about now. Let's I don't think there's really distinction here with music and movies and TV I think maybe for movies in Italy include more relevant which is let's let's be very clear the studios would prefer. You buy -- music -- art movies and TV. Yes -- stored in the cloud and or you know that's fine. Why -- they want that way it's a higher margin transaction. However the very nature of digital really lends itself to a rental activity and the statistics bear out that you know rentals far exceeds the transactional behavior we're seeing and that is a huge problem for the studios -- the -- cornerstone of the business model -- DDT -- that while still tremendous are declining very fast therefore digitally the best way to make that up is to. Sell as opposed ran. So that leaves us with one word you watch in the second half of the -- -- -- -- the latter quarter a year ultraviolet. This is sort of this mask consortium of studios. Retailers. Everyone on God's Green earth that has something to do with that video sales and rental business this is it gonna become the technological framework. That will hopefully in Joost viewers if -- more comfortable about buying product second -- be shortened the clout. But what is missing from this discussion is. Where is the incentives. That will have consumer spending so much work to buy when they -- rent there there's just no real value differential between renting and selling. I think it. I mean to some extent. You know you've always had movies that you wanted to own verses verses -- so you know someone might buy avatar and watch it because they know that they'll watch it. You know another twelve times. At home on Blu-ray as opposed to you know renting it for three dollars and then they once again after running again. By its you know behavior has. And is proven out you know -- -- moving to that it's. To that rental model and and more importantly they're moving to. You know the on demand. Subscription model. You know that the growth in Netflix the growth. In all of these subscription services is far outpacing. Any growth that's happening even in the transactional business word you know in the rental business. So I mean I think it's. It's gonna be difficult for them to convince users to even want to buy a piece of content even if they can you know. Watch it on any of their devices because. You know they can do that already and only pay eight dollars a month. Or you know we're out of time I think you -- An -- chocolate as fascinating discussion guys thank you very much I went askew. Renal failure to go home and people go there are creatures to -- working on right now. When my working on right now. I'm working out but He is about the dish then ultimately -- directory that. And crossings TV editor variety they can find your work at ready dot com what -- you up to. What are not up to well still covering television business which is -- we can look all season there's a lot to be said. On electronics and certainly dish net flicks all these companies gonna keep -- Ryan and myself busy for months account. Indeed. Ryan. Andrew thank you so much for joining us reporters' roundtable everyone thanks for watching. You can find show notes for this with all the links and stuff and and -- the next week if they ever get around to doing that in time. At that cnet.com slash get this reporter's dash roundtable dash podcast. Go check it out I am Rafe on Twitter your -- -- handle Ryan -- Andrew. New -- are described to us we will keep you entertained. We'll see -- next -- thanks everyone.