Buzz Out Loud
Ep. 1515: There's something Buzzing in the Digital CityThe NYC takeover of BOL continues, as the hardware heads from the Digital City talk about Day One problems with Apple's new Lion OSX update, the death of Google Labs, and who's getting hacked next.
Why hello everybody it is buzz out loud what they -- the podcast of indeterminate length on gonna make called me and say about 35 minutes. And we look familiar -- you that is because the bugs guys are out at comic con in San Diego. I've never been to the sandy who count done but in Reynolds is in Diego that would reverse he was right around the corner and -- Fred by the parks and easy. Our bodies Jeff and Justin and and Wilson I sat in yesterday -- New York AK with oral form right and today we are doing it and if you don't know who we are. -- enactment it's got signed just Kaminsky to repair and we -- -- Monday program called. He digital city which -- here every Monday 3 PM eastern noon Pacific. And we are gonna do our darnedest to give you an excellent -- show today we've actually done it individually and together a couple times. In the past a lot going on today although although we force -- -- -- -- -- -- when you -- live in San -- Scott -- -- on. How how how we're testing experience was that. I was fantastic and it was really before it kind of blew up as this like film launching platform went idiot as video -- -- really then people averages dressed up in costumes is a great is to buy chain mail. You get checked out a lot of indie comics in. The -- -- -- -- -- because you could find graphic novels so many -- graphic novels that were your typical I'm not a comic guy even though it look like one. Android thinks I'm a comic guys we just had a conversation a chain mail armor and graphic novels but -- -- I like everything around the world of comics except for contact -- I think it would of those directory are more fun graphic. But I do love I do love aggressive in the art and I like it -- graphic novels I was went. And picked up a great handful of interesting books. When I was there for some really cool vendors that was fun and it's so big you just wander around through all these other you can bigger pick up some cool gifts -- people T shirts and really weird items. All true love it and of course there's a New York comic -- which I actually swing by of most of an active company here but I don't think it's actually technically related to the other one. It -- -- -- dash converse is comic you know no -- Can't make it's it's getting better but it's nowhere near what the experience that the sandy oh yeah let's talk anyway our first big -- story today. Did you know we've all been -- -- Apple yesterday and even that he before an Apple had their quarterly earnings that announcement and did you boffo sales. Our buddies over Intel also had. Really one of their best quarters ever they -- record -- -- thirteen billion dollars in the most recent quarter. So that makes me think that all this talk about the death of the PC might be slightly exaggerated. I mean -- about tablets taken over from from PCs but at the same time. You can still see a lot of computers right just have been doing army Intel manufacture for both windows and Macs Ogg files -- -- It spreads in their their dwindling in the mobile hemispheres so I think that's one of the reasons why. They're not gonna -- so quickly and Apple. With their own route with the iPad but that may change soon -- to -- -- it wasn't their appointments and until its attack -- -- Yeah. And they still do -- usually launches an attack -- and -- -- -- -- -- but they've been kind of backing away from they want to -- tackle its Hispanic it was just words at first it was but there aggressive words -- -- that was the goal. And now it's just -- McCain got tablets -- now and Delhi -- even do that many tablets I mean most of whom we see a couple especially ones with Intel atom and have seen a couple of core I five tablets. But most that a lot of use the Nvidia ten -- platform or has their own thing -- of -- solaris. That now people are wondering whether our -- will end up creeping its way into laptops their -- -- -- you know. Could eventually see when there's a laptop with an arm processor -- go both ways. -- but it looks like it's true -- -- -- use of tablets I mean. I don't think any of us really uses it as a replacement to a laptop -- yet it has a lot of uses otherwise -- -- -- -- for everything. Pretty much by heavy -- -- and Arafat -- to be that useful oral. Also another place where Intel's going to be the curve is next to the releasing ivy bridge lot of other manufactures are probably gonna hit that until the end of the year they're gonna be doing towards beginning of the year. So went to legacy they I -- -- the financial backing the to a lot of R&D to keep him and her. So that's another plus for them I mean Intel is huge in argue that's where why they do all of those commercials that all the great research they do and all the people get together and that's. Lunchroom and go poke up above you know it and then I'm on the Intel -- -- -- -- a -- differently to correctly and then at a I had no idea it has yet but I don't remember it but Intel pointed out that. They now expect PC shipments to increase by eight to 10% -- -- which is good but not as good as people thought it would be PC sales are still growing but at a slower rate than people thought they would part of that is obviously going to be. People getting -- an iPad instead of a computer or laptop. But an iPad instead of a second computer I think that's what right inside -- going is -- netbook area and really that's the you know like this that it -- -- -- -- -- netbook is gonna go down and you know this is -- -- -- -- -- -- -- him. This -- Adam is not I'd rather a Celeron overnight. At a at -- -- at the actually Intel said the same thing they say that. Netbooks are gonna are really where where the demand is not exactly. Now where it used to be made a couple years ago I mean that was such a huge thing for a company is duly tested dozens and dozens of netbooks. And and we did -- we did a quick -- a couple months ago where I think. First quarter 2000 and we accidentally 25 netbooks come in for review that that we daily tests and reviewed and first quarter 2011. I think was a four. If that many yeah they have yet. Its its steel -- I mean tablets are new and as soon as you put two things within the same category condom. You know mobile but they don't do quite everything the best operators -- laptop and doing the same price range. Makes it a little minorities like you know -- -- so nice that the goal of the iPad but the same series of people make about the iPad but doesn't do everything the -- as well either an -- real and that's the thing. I think if price points change on these devices then you may see a flux in the market mean. I think there's to be differentiator may be a netbook that's lower than a tablet and I mean like the base model like iPad down -- -- -- something. Maybe for like -- 20250. May see an influx in sales but I mean it's not really what you. -- -- you find these things like you know what we're seeing now with faster eleven insurers are things that actually perform better in Intel's been dangling that term ultra buck. That's an idea to think about what other west I was just a kind of slim laptop right -- -- -- -- you know the MacBook air and it's and its kin and the -- lasers -- -- like that. But if those become more affordable she started seeing with maybe the eleven -- with EMD processors we've seen. You don't get -- -- that price range its iPad equivalent but really can be the laptop you can live with. That could be a big area because everyone wants -- -- they don't wanna be hobbled. And you like that the laptop you can live with a -- it's very clever way of things city's aviation past and that I am gonna source it before Steve Jobs does it in true buzz out -- style unfortunately -- to move onto the next story because they do cover a lot of material. What we tend to get sort of really into the -- contact -- is good -- so technical hardware guide dogs are your questions today -- no no game winning -- -- don't know trivia questions today although I think about it that's gonna we do on our show on Mondays is. We take people off in the chat room to play and then Joseph Julian Scott to answer technology trivia questions that I fire at them. And if they get the question -- the person in the chat room just -- earlier got a thing for wins the prize and the some good stuff to and somebody's gonna just what Ackerman wants to get out of his office. Lot of -- a video game collectibles but now you varying -- success and recovered the path -- A that's right we did that for one game a chocolate covered under that went -- -- this -- -- -- who I don't know in a laboratory in a way don't tell me I don't know -- was with the Canada. Even where things are noted Chrysler have been -- -- for that when women isn't working -- Joseph. You should be glad that social media things like FaceBook Twitter. We're at a Twitter was around but but -- it was really just starting out back then you should be glad because there's a whole new category of companies. That specialize in doing social media research for job applicants. Basically if you apply for a job. The company could hire this outside detective agency kind of to go out and do an extensive research of all the footprint she left online. And come up -- report my footprints agree. Hi you you think your footprints agree left contracts everywhere and I know that I would even have a FaceBook account had an -- and severance is could go home. You don't know created my FaceBook account Gaza and San -- I just -- you're missing the point it's not -- space -- his comments you leave another website -- photos and upload to Flickr that there are signs public I like -- login under your name when I leave -- addicts always why I -- that explains why can't get through his job anyway epic. What what these guys do is it is they find stuff that might be a problem they show it to your perspective -- and it turns out that a lot of people -- stuff out there. That they don't even realize is -- like for instance them some examples -- on this New York Times story. Is. One prospective employee was found using Craigslist to look for OxyContin. -- and not pose naked photos she put up on an image sharing site to -- get her job. And those says some guy posted about -- pictures -- posting with various guns including select assault rifles I guess it's illegal to have. So that's the kind of stuff they can get you deep sixth from a from a perspective Johnson and be careful I don't like guns I don't pose nude in Mozilla. It's an octagon and added -- we never have never I -- bogus cigarettes let let alone OxyContin or somebody had. Somebody -- of member of a FaceBook group called this is America shouldn't. I shouldn't have to press one for English which kind of has racial overtones but -- you know these these may not out you may not rule you out for a job but Google translate -- drizzle translated its. Said I mean well you know Twitter the way we handle it here obviously it all flows through CNET so I treat my town like we all do republic our record for the company out of public broadcasting where every saving -- casual. You know it's being observed. But they're -- said about the Internet used to be a place that you could freely express yourself that was the -- the dream of its utopia. -- like given in the ninety's is that it was like not that. You're not on record a per say but everything you do now you would do after watching and that is part of -- creating an account social profile. You should expect that but it is kind of you know it it out if it's under heavy analysis and that's always that's a little depressing to me although if you say saying that's really off base. Anywhere. You know you stand the risk of being you know heavily scrutinized -- I think the big risk comes from this photo sharing sites where there was -- -- for your Twitter or photo bucket of Flickr for concept. As you may not realize. -- -- -- has publicly accessible specially when you Twitter photo where you -- use shrink a -- down and post on FaceBook or something even if your -- a trip to private. The photos on a third party site. They divide says that is -- possibly -- who created Google plus of this within have to pay for some Google research you sign up with them and -- -- -- your photos and sellout -- possible for recruiting an -- that is another danger zone -- -- -- on on Google plus now now if you. This picture -- a -- see on FaceBook -- so I can't I shoot with maxim back in the day -- -- a lot of weird. The photo for at a theater company right and I just take my shirt off and pretend to be a dead. Now that's an appealing on so many levels I noted that there had -- -- -- -- you did it's out there do I gathers a comedy FAA did with Sony is a screenwriter and Elena producer and at a comedy piece. That -- you know. Before it was like I was like a PG 33 -- never know its gonna be out there entertainment. Because I thought I don't think entertaining Dresser because they thought that's -- it's got your purity purity here it's no worse than the Judd Apatow and I'm not going anywhere if you -- -- if it isn't actually Tamer than -- deep mining Internet -- social media search before you hired -- Scott. Would you estimate the cut but he -- arm of II hopes. -- I think you know I think any NASA if you have a lot incriminating questions you don't have dancing and I you know what -- have these types of council I was when you're who -- but. That those types of things at least were also for certain outlets and those are pictures that -- to and he I would they I don't I'm not a big party -- -- party tech -- Those -- the posed photos this is an amazing how far things and I'm with technology just that the used to be like you just use my friends he's gonna be urine tests now goes all the way to like social media and Muslim network. It's like they really like move in with me for a month before you give me a job I enjoy your brother records though about like that the biggest problem I think is is that everybody's got a camera ever -- -- -- When someone else takes a photo of you and tags you -- posting and when that becomes something that can count against you. That's that's as a disturbing. Line and are aware that -- -- because then there's a question of how much does -- do you act like you know US senator. -- to be careful of ever I go do not. I well men I think you're gonna like it congress did dinosaurs and you're not example but that's got bad yeah you do what you know what he could be observed -- any points. I really a question of. I don't act but -- -- and a what -- eventually don't get hacked that's the worst part they say that 75% of recruiters. Are required by the companies to do online research on candidates. And 70% of recruiters in the United States clean that they rejected a candidate based on information they found on line. -- I guess we should all be glad that they didn't really have a lot of that stuff when we were applying for various jobs here. Why god I didn't do a lot of I mean Scott showed -- -- -- -- tie he was on time and that was enough for me real. That has tried again I have to do yet -- -- -- suit on. There have been questions visibly pulled open your I would unable to defend and through them it is that a -- had a suit is a big if -- else noticed the sport jacket. -- -- -- -- I it was it was a mechanical storytellers I was decked out but you just showed up one day and we just assumed you -- here and in. And we're gonna show patients an actor been -- allegedly injected it into the Lehigh valley high -- exists. -- Julie Watson started testing and -- -- -- have this by Tuesday she's like yeah I. I -- today if we all look a little hamburger today that is because yesterday was that with Apple name -- asked the new MacBook airs and the new Mac mini and they released. OS-X lion so -- -- particular had been benchmarking those arbor products that seriously though though Joseph stay tuned to CNET to read our full -- of all that stuff. And of course is -- content about it them out the mouth without Mac mini has got point oh yes and that's. He had sent his mouth through room number no more like -- -- yet -- -- in the toilets and movie where they. The -- disappear -- before. Before they go off on -- Intel. I hate a movie is recognized Joseph Dante -- Janet who directed the twilight film movie jackass think actually that I'm good like that different directors Toronto I but he did the -- overall death. The time and -- -- great in the ambulance the answer we got other trivia night when we got we should -- to do that. Or no reply has exactly they do and here we got a -- until the next topic. It's an exact -- that is good that's how we roll here. Did you -- justice. -- back in March -- -- like AT&T is gonna by T-Mobile that sounds like a reasonable idea nobody had done deal no problem. Well turns out these -- -- -- take awhile to do and there are now some objections I am very high level objection I'm loving the objections really and that's 3000000018 DS to pay T-Mobile that it doesn't go through well -- -- very -- -- with a product is and that is senator Herb Kohl Democrat from Wisconsin. He's the head of the antitrust subcommittee in the senate and of course the the government United States has a vested interest in preventing monopolies. From forming in order to keep competition -- -- and anything between different companies that suffered since the bell telephone company with was broken up back in -- the eighties or or even standard oil. A hundred years ago. Anyway he says that he's looked at the AT&T T-Mobile potential merger and says it is not dead. He says I've concluded that this acquisition of giving you my best senatorial voice right now go -- -- concluded that this acquisition if permitted to proceed would likely cause substantial harm to competition. Consumers and would be contrary to antitrust law and not in the public interest. -- Okay now let me just point out that he is. Merely seeing this in an advisory capacity to -- the department justice that makes the finals and Sony's. Not senators and congress people but their opinion counts a lot tell me just of why do you think that -- T and T-Mobile should not be allowed to. Let's let's just take the four major carriers. And I say Verizon at Verizon variety being the biggest cellphone explain held since usually have some of them strung around her waist like second utility that let's let's go by let's -- -- companies Verizon probably being the number one. AT&T being number two sprint being number three key -- number four. If you notice the -- bottom carriers still all for unlimited data the two top carriers already capped their data if you were requires -- -- company like of eighteen -- require T-Mobile. Would they still haven't limited probably not gonna probably be another -- it's capped. Leaving only one carrier uncapped. I mean that just that that's just not right -- especially in -- which Sony devices that it depended on for data mean. I use my mobile hotspots from iPad you know people for their laptops you can't have a cap like that -- your data just. It -- it's it's it's just crazy and is bad enough that even on certain home -- eyes -- want to do it that this is not the time to do it may be back when -- started but. You can't give somebody everything for. 29 dollars and 49 dollars and all of this and you gonna get the same thing between aren't you gonna get to geeks like 29 dollar price as that could be bad for consumers but does that violate any antitrust statutes that -- said the number one an effort to carry Florida are also a sort or another and another -- of another important -- -- -- -- I'm sorry is that also. There are only two carriers that are their support GSM which can be -- worldwide -- And they orbit they just so happen to be AT&T and T next so you were you when you don't have one you have finally competitive a competitive rate if you wanted to go -- -- -- -- them. -- -- now happily exact that is an excellent point this someone else pointed out that. T-Mobile is is. Specifically known for catering to -- the -- price sensitive consumers. I -- where people. And if there is AT&T at lower income -- again lower into our standing again whatever was my sensitive and now I mean that -- -- -- that we've we've all become we're right where sensitive but if any of us to offer this economy gap but that but it but it minibus switched to T mobile's because it. Well I -- I've. -- I -- I think I think the phone option I think I would use T-Mobile for AT&T. -- they got the Galileo -- good I would double IDs are currently sprint I would you go W Verizon and but I think if I -- to go to if it was true GT mobile AT&T of the got go to mobile. I mean especially if if they offer the iPhone down the line Allyson -- that's that big if I mean but I would go the Android phones on their network but I'm speaking in terms of like you know a lot of people like AT&T just for the iPhone -- with the iPhone out of the -- much. All right all right -- One point that -- also did oppose -- bid to buy NBC universal and it's still ended up being approved that so he's not present -- necessarily you have but you know he is an advisor obviously is is is quite concerned. This is this is correct. You intimate AT&T build their own networks and towers up trying to buy them -- And your -- on sprint right -- Verizon okay okay. There are so this would not affect you too much either way but get less -- the competition -- and -- like one of the first guys to dump unlimited plans. -- that and I think AT&T the first AT&T to -- -- -- could be grandfathered into why -- -- Okay and -- it in just in terms of like okay fine if you can't get on the phone even on a mobile hot spot like the iPad mean. They should be unlimited plans for these devices just how -- -- should be especially because they trying to gave it a watch Netflix on your phone but that's -- -- -- -- offered everything -- -- Netflix HBO go -- the SlingPlayer of these devices these these apps used them that's the point that's -- in doing what they're doing and then mostly they want more money and most remain well how dependent on this and how how less dependent we are on voice exactly and even text and I think -- -- to the age or. It's -- textual answer and -- and that's probably like another bad thing because there's so many devices now that are constantly ping that even when you're not using and -- if you leave notifications on its. It's pinging enough for notification email updates and -- mills. On the more apps you install a new devices they -- they seek -- the Internet and that's just totally not right have to pay for something. As Vista unaware user -- there's just no Linux spec out my -- my hip right now who knows what it's doing right now Wi-Fi it's being free email or text message or. Com or or or market updates and its -- is not fair to the consumer. When they put -- these devices knowing how data data hungry they are and then when -- tax you for when you go over. But that's the next step is the ISP is entering the -- -- into your home. A lot of them wanna start capping. The amount of data that you can use in -- they're doing it already and I think a couple of test markets here. And that's a problem when Netflix stream -- -- a a couple of gigs worth of a movie at night. Or you want to download a game that's like nine gigs from the PlayStation network or even -- students -- through -- the other streaming movies Hulu. It's a new Lulu Lulu any event Hulu plus crackle and -- -- -- and I love this -- and I -- HBO go right biggest and their watch in the wire HBO go in your bed and your on your Wi-Fi but its cap so you run out of I know are content you view your band with for the month. Shut -- The federal guidelines are your router setup -- and that's my only link on their way I need that and constantly doing boardwalk empire episode for Scott Italy and what happened not -- -- -- Then and then of course now and in it you know -- enters I clout. So now -- your device outdoors music -- auto parts of filling with a cloud services select any photos go up photos come down I mean I mean come on vulgar content -- no longer photos go up this month. Photos go down never a miscommunication. There you go it's. Steve Steve actions is they then that's the -- But but speaking of of many companies like that not Apple but our buddies over at Google goo -- you know what they're doing now. They've they've invents a lot of great stuff in a in a little in his. I -- company called Google land that's -- develop new ideas and a lot of immigrants to become products like a -- -- no Gmail. Which we use that -- Google Bronx mountain. Smallest -- Google now says under region the exact quote I don't get it brought. Up a -- called America. Right now you guys better not talk smack about I clarifying a point the river how how -- oops my bad -- -- and meanwhile he's spending the it's taking at least. Fifteen seconds forgot to turn the ringer rather -- moderator there has already Andreas -- -- -- other Texas. And please please please feel free to get -- Saturday -- -- probably -- Is I never you know what I'm proud to say in all my years of doing this I've never gone on live TV. And had my phone -- I always have a rigorous -- -- actually get it might it might June -- -- intelligent. -- -- -- Thank goodness that was not humans don't have it it Google announced in a blog posts on Wednesday that in an effort to play our time -- its product efforts. That it will quote wind down Google lands as a as a distinct -- slash incubator. Four new products my phone when buzz out loud that's better. Our opponents at all it's all your -- is set on buzz. Instead of on ring I could give a reason but does not into the city and I'm very little we really cares about -- audio into the no weeds on that one. Personal to personal files now they're still going to have labs -- thing Google Maps and labs within Gmail but it's a more streamlined. Lest I mean -- -- surprising to me because even though they are trying to focus. It reminds me of like Disney getting rid of imagine hearing because. Mother most successful products some of them came out. Of labs and as part of the way they think is very different. And I don't know if you want to remove that will it may create a more boring product will they have next big things are they gonna feel more corporate. What are they gonna do is it gonna develop these new products with in this specific groups that they applied to rather than having central kind of imagination lab kind of I think tank where they come up with stuff and and figure out where -- because the other they desperately that was for themselves then they do their own development of parallel to strike action as -- -- the Chrome -- -- just -- an Android tablet with a keyboard. Right now we have yet been growing operating tell Arafat that it's counting as a -- okay how much are you when the Chrome and now how far second ago. But I always fun and exciting that Google at least had the bravery to explorer like that creatively may be. May be should be as open it but then that was or take away the appeal of something like there maybe there -- -- the trying to adopt some of that Apple philosophy who just wanna make the few things we have. Better. It -- clever way of looking at deals landscape -- cluttered and and that's one reason why I've not found. Montessori product quite as appealing personally because I fragmentation yeah there's a little more fragmentation going but -- have to say the hardware is. He thought -- and -- Larry Page two was just calling you actually said greater focus. Has also been another big feature for me this quarter -- more would he says behind fewer arrows which is exactly what you guys were just saying. I showed how smart you are but that that they -- you wanna focus on a handful of of big wins there. And not a not -- -- -- many things against -- wall just to see what sticks. We can -- -- cool. Projects that didn't stick. Wave wave which violence is there. Honestly the Chrome operating system with a separate OS for hardware. Tests I mean it -- said it vigorously that it -- of that -- to order books that that would afloat again there's too much though they still produce up of a portable browser the keyboard. I'm sure -- -- within Gmail they'll continue to develop new things and within whatever. Android they'll continue to have these things maps that I am thinking of entering the meeting cool trends -- -- -- sky map you know who boggles. Who goes out really well as Google that those doing any good that I know but I still haven't and I'd been down. Because I download because and I was playing with the other bills like -- -- -- bottle bottle of champagne in the game has posters are much closer to the picture. Convertible the president it was isn't cheap movies and a good -- -- at Google goggles. Put that -- thought ice I will be in. And the titles are good business cards as well you can ticket if they've got them into your. You're just entered your contacts on school wanted to tell you guys I've discovered something very important about buzz out loud at that I was previously unaware of or -- forgotten. These guys take a break in the middle -- -- how dare I -- -- are now ready because -- was especially if it's gonna be time for a fifteen. Point 282. Break. I environmental kayaks and talk about other things but but but before we go I'll just remind you that I believe the regular both guys -- -- probably tomorrow. -- post comic con and in the meantime where your friends from the digital city show sitting in you can of course catches every Monday 3 PM eastern -- Assume that's noon Pacific and that's my understanding of time since his. It is that -- connecting KER what it what is it in the UK in the army. I did -- I -- in the -- health 8 PM may fifth birds got the bizarre at five hours straight love for my in laws and write in it and I gentlemen look at the -- the -- fifteen seconds of silence or perhaps this amusing but I'm not area. All right and we're back -- that for break and when there's a music -- -- -- system I can't hear the audio. What was -- was the break -- You don't want to stream and the streams on delays so I'm I'm I'm. A time -- haven't happened yet for -- got here. You if you're caught in another demo and I don't I -- over here and went to myself and -- congratulate and see myself and thought I don't we're going to a commercial break presumptive now just a little typical 152. Logo they throw up there I mean maybe have had these -- voters should let you should -- -- our local area -- this -- to this is what we call reflect. -- -- -- -- -- -- We were talking about the actual act of being on a show which is fun sometimes but let's focus and I'm not I -- Resident -- going to feel like that's it is as files -- they just watch themselves. It's worth using right now. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And you give that a go hey you're -- -- -- sweet and I don't we just announced his lawyers sitting here fortunately we've had -- -- in the outside where again it's in everything covered and we got to see the new MacBook Air eleven inch yes and -- energy and MacBook Air thirteen -- new Mac mini. And -- -- demo of OS-X lion due to dare call -- OSX. And and we actually have hardware for all of the things here in the CNET -- right now unlike the Google labs. CNET labs continues unabated the we have more wood behind our -- we have more. That's a gray line. It's -- we've been playing -- -- does and I think one of the one of the big stories that's gonna come out. From people one trading up to these new MacBook air's and two people taking -- -- existing Apple hardware and updating it to. OS-X lion is that Apple's -- very. Big but the very subtle about it they have changed some of the gesture language. Of those four finger three finger two finger gestures that you used. On the Mac books in that gigantic glass touchpad and we have spent the last. Day and a half. Basically teaching ourselves how -- -- communicate with -- Apple hardware the differences are subtle but. There's a bunch of them and and and I found little hard to get used it would do things got. -- there are more three and four finger commands. Up swiping up swiping down swiping -- like caller -- cloth near the city you know the four figures like this time -- -- to bring -- it's very hard I think my fingernail gets in the -- may be need to -- -- found now the China to spread out like that it does something else and that brings up the -- the the very iPad like app interface. Despite that -- -- that that I'll launch -- watch the launch pad eichel the squeezed when you do the crab -- reason you bring that up. You're and you're right like it gets a little complicated because. Basically anything your three or four fingers might be doing in any point could do something. Eat it if you through it -- wanting activated three fingers can drag around an open window as -- discovered when -- activated and if you're not swiping if you're dragging around like that it just it does take some getting used to and it is significantly different. Then what you experience on an iPad with a direct touch multi touch pinch to zoom and stuff for all the same but all those interface swipe swipe down things that's -- whole -- world. The -- the just they're just you know there there there there according to -- they're hurting people over the gonna train them how to do its thing. On typical Apple fashion whether you know they know they don't wanna give it to make it that's been -- they're gonna make it -- light went on a pad. One of -- thing at least as far as the Mac mini is concerned it. They take the optical drive -- as we discussed before and an in and it it it actually makes it makes you mad because. The one thing that you would really love to seen on a Mac mini would have been a Blu-ray drive and -- Apple just refuses. To give you what you really want -- like a -- You know they date. By opening up yet nobody was asking me to -- up to 8000 don't know any other way -- you put a Blu-ray drive forget eat -- don't try. -- -- -- -- you know and then in and in images and any likely buy it by default the right click is -- enabled and -- -- -- They just -- they do this but like a little kid. They don't want to give you what you want. Right -- the box and it just insect -- it's frustrating because it's it's a beautiful -- it's a beautiful device it's well designed it's well put together. You know the OS is gonna work with the hardware design work -- -- is designed to work hand in hand we just don't give you that one. Feature you always wanted me queuing and it should have put the didn't. The demon -- -- update but just an ordinary optical track you originally a read only know right -- you -- watch -- -- and I think it is the one that they're they're trying to sabotage or other products but it is frustrating -- to the consumer. These revenue -- coming out every year and you know their people wanna -- -- that waited for this years and now they have no optical. It's a set top box you know it for so many people so and the ability to pop a dvd and is just convenience and allegedly front row was gone as well. A -- -- -- and then I have not -- belt and every other actually I forgot that it was on -- -- I TV thinking because it yet something -- -- -- at the hardware either -- theories. I didn't think about that I'd the most it was was the with a new gestures and I think that the key is. It's now. Further divorced from what you think it is -- windows standard of how you control things and dvd MacBook gestures -- kind of -- that kind of related to how we -- things in the windows world as well. But now you don't for instance. Are on election we take your mouth or desktop you take your house you'd double click and hold and then you drag a window around there if you take your finger on the touchpad double -- cold. Move the winner on that doesn't work anymore on line and what you do -- you hover the cursor over the header bar of the witty and move in the basic three fingers -- go like that that -- -- now that actually may be a better idea certainly less awkward going to wrap. How polls you now buy credits more -- it does it take -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- one quick throw out their for anybody's considering getting a Mac mini though there's no optical optical drive if you did what to do clean install the -- you just need an Internet connection. When you boot up you know -- the command are. You can -- either keeping your settings or -- -- -- utilities erase it it'll read download lion. From the network and then install it. Which is a long time I wanted to take some of those multi touch gestures and move them onto the iPad next move them back over I'm sure they will but. Some of those split apart the the view and swiping between programs and -- you think -- be one language for gestures and and issue it should be across the different platforms. You actually Scotland's -- -- is pretty pretty broad and -- -- that valid but some of the other ones like I much prefer taking the four fingers and swiping them to get back to the desktop on a Mac but the new version. Which is anti your -- -- three fingers and go like that somehow. Especially if you have I don't know what. Pinch your fingers that it -- -- I see more gestures that come they just don't wanna. Jester overload -- right now I think they're gonna be more in updates become a lot I -- little overloaded I I have to say -- it'll take a couple days sort of -- this -- language and then longer to get used to it I see him on many people hanging on the Apple stores Africa -- -- -- this time. -- -- -- -- but fortunately at least is usually about -- I don't know -- we. I'm so as -- -- I would take a second I just gonna say. -- I found it invaluable resource to be on the MacBook. Air itself under the system preferences menu. You going to touch -- and there's a nice little animated. Example of each gesture and what it does and I kept referring back to that and I found it be very useful. I was gonna say Scott was correct when. It must be almost two years ago now. He made -- bold prediction that -- then smaller devices like tablets and even phones adopting more PC like standards. Larger devices like a laptop which start adopting mobile operating system standards. And they would become more -- received once small screens. Would become more like phones and tablets and mobile devices because they have -- smart screens that you -- in -- with a different way and of course we see that it's entirely correct. As he says he had -- launch pad which is so IOS like and even the answer to violence like. Well meaning as secure as -- when interviewed her and everything I felt that way and -- -- -- what I knew it wasn't just the time the fact the right time and and -- -- the future I was telling you what was gonna it was going to be happy and it it would it would definitely make sense because PCs. Can you -- or -- and pick up most of the market. And iphones that we take up I'm pretty much most of the phone market. So it's easier to get people to adjust to something -- forty familiar -- Just like when they may beyond. The PlayStation and they made the interface of the places in three very similar to that of the PSP. Write these want to keep the familiar and I think that's one of the reasons that could you have more people -- devices. And Mac products not to mention you know -- not only because. They're they're they're a little expensive but but but some people -- don't wanna learn a new computer. Not just that people are now growing up what you said it look -- kids now growing up with with iphones and ipads and it's not an alternative operating system it's really may be their first and so they're gonna be there's in the -- generation growing into that after us. That won't even remember windows at all and we'll -- to windows it's saying it. Killing and as I -- a little bit -- -- -- -- -- windows and windows as we know it was on what the idea of windows and offers isn't going to die like that their duet that we're gonna tiles -- -- always will -- and it's gonna be bill -- its its its its its keeps going off to remember what kinds artistry animated iMac is a -- -- -- as a windows in general or. Yes let's briefly -- on the Apple front that obviously our full reviews of the new MacBook airs and the Mac mini will be going up it's units in -- of hands on coverage and videos and photos. If you want to see those -- -- -- and we've run into that few other people have. Are some problems with lion on with the first -- some weird bugs -- some people are saying. They can't get their App Store council work after upgrading of people saying they can't until we upgrade to a different drive directory and you guys had some trouble with. Oh I definitely -- -- what happened this quickly but by default there are certain permissions that one -- elected didn't give you write permissions to the hard drives every time. He tried to copy of volume to authenticate and some of our -- our automated benchmarks right the scores of a hard drive -- as it was causing a snap with its -- -- -- Backtrack and find out that was. Also by defaulted you know it doesn't have a hard drive that is of the optical drive -- -- an external drives -- united this you have to you know you've got to enable nothing major but the thing is that. Being that it's it's a new product and and you know it's it's -- hot topic that we try to get it done. As is is efficiently but as you know is is on point as we can adjust it makes -- -- it. And it turns out but when you elect began coming in a lab is opinions and it is it or org or it's asking me did they get the memo -- get the memo went memo written a memo. As you go ahead and read the memo I you haven't been putting the cover sheet on your TPS report with respect. Yeah you know I got this seat I just forgot to do I've noticed that -- I'm gonna send you another copy. I got man that's a lot of I don't need -- to go ahead and. Yet a -- does offer programs with more than I thought to have with other. OS-X. Upgrades just saying that they you know. Don't install again or install this offer upgrade first before you do like my screen running suffer for a final draft. Send an elaborate emails saying you must download this update first otherwise it may not work with lion and then Scientology's. You know servers and said that the -- leave their software needs to upgrade its -- because you hadn't heard that at all. With with snow leopard or with other iterations. And prevented air mattress of the -- is well on if you're using Adobe Photoshop C is -- your -- five. On you have to update because of some in compatibility as well that that was not unveil a troubled Java -- a job to -- as wealthiest. And Hitler are put -- get -- list of software that is having compatibility problems with lion. Which is ridiculous and I -- expected considering it's disposed to be an update to existing OS not only real rich browser when he's -- Adobe Adobe products having a problem that I I. -- -- update -- it is matter as a matter of just generally. While this may be sure you install those updates are waiting a week for someplace to finally disillusioned -- program go to you know -- -- update -- definitely alright alright now. I'm I would -- somebody else is having a problem. Might be the guys at news international that is of course the UK newspaper arm. Of Rupert Murdoch's empire they have been in the news a lot of late entry guys have followed at least some of that. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And -- woman who was the head editor the medical director of -- newspaper at all taking questions from the from the legislature or is out there it was a as a brutal stuff and that some guy try to throw -- Rupert Murdoch shaving cream and he doesn't think we actually throw pies at people now be able to take a paper plate you get like either ready whip or shaving cream and -- I would argue that that's not a pie didn't -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I'd -- pardon issued in some like -- shoe -- bush welt am I finance. -- -- -- it's -- -- you -- surely somebody to -- -- displeasure was now time at the bottom of -- is considered to be for insulting to showed us about -- or zero worsened and her eyes as saying he he dodged and I will say it anyway. Lowell -- the hacker group claims they have -- happy hackers claim they have four gigabytes of some emails that's the sun that's another Rupert Murdoch newspaper. That -- may also be in trouble for based with -- doing is they were hacking into people's voice mail -- the politicians. Or a celebrity or to somebody who's in the news for whatever reason you think obviously you can't do that. Can -- can I guess you're gonna get it and you shouldn't do that you cannot be a dog right there to do that indigo I I think that's actually a perfect summation of the entire issue. You can do -- find to -- get caught because they've been doing it for years and years. And these are the guys in the words of Dan Ackerman it is better ask for forgiveness them for permission I however. I -- I don't voicemail. Back at a so. -- finishing this I feel like him and -- wrong in saying in the past I a year and a half I feel like hacker organizations hacking groups. Have been more have been in the headlines more in wielded more power in the middle of a big stories. And I feel like I have an overseas. Actually -- -- be partially because people -- so much valuable lead on the cloud now that's easy -- -- and also because there everyone realizes that for all these years people been sending to the memos email those between documents. -- all the things -- on line okay if I can just get demos. -- with the government documents that. Anonymous put out then and Wiki leaks and that's like that's kernel really. -- -- -- it's been having for awhile but I think the WikiLeaks is like the start of of some some new recent trend but how ironic would it and he. -- asked if if the news international. Which hacking into people's voice mails and then they in -- get -- in that exposes even more. Culpability. On their part yes just that you know it's funny you would like -- -- -- -- -- -- of the -- I I I finally saw a video yesterday that everyone seemed like three years ago was a World of Warcraft video store and is sure to reach in Richland man is old that was -- would leave your -- and -- time actually. Realize. That's I don't play well I I -- -- and everybody knows. Clearly you're you're if you're out there -- -- -- -- -- I think it our way yeah that's right at South Park to be the end of the well. Of warcraft the second. I -- on on that unrelated note I I think I think we -- both are shells out for today just about I think -- Sony. Lovely show and I think we've done the official crew proud and I hope everyone will tune in on Mondays at noon Pacific three -- a little. Digital city show which is actually a lot like this but little more -- to the sort of urban technology to and a variety of determining -- are very to our a very determined -- and we give away lots of cool prizes and rare collectibles. You can catch that at digital city dot cnet.com for best episode dives he seemed to -- about -- -- to -- -- live for get an iTunes. You can sign up for FaceBook fan page -- where static and I can never remember are digital city podcast on FaceBook okay great. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- any moment maybe any. Are happier and and stay tuned for the real buzz out -- to come back real soon and if you wanna read about the new MacBook -- Tune in to CNET anytime. Now the weekend into Monday and if you're -- think. With -- everybody I'm I'm I'm gonna -- to put the out of music -- the event lever and Jake it's. And you can I was gonna tell you -- and advanced. Plus the -- if -- look. Did you -- --