Buzz Out Loud
Ep. 1309: The telcos are a poison pillSamsung Galaxy Tab pricing shows up on Amazon UK, and it's well over a thousand dollars U.S., presumably to force you toward subsidized prices so you'll end up paying the same amount or more for with-contract tablets. Which ... seriously? No. Also, Craigslist...
-- today's Thursday September 16. One -- Jason Howell. -- -- And -- -- blogging about that allowed -- -- podcast amended permanent link that's episode thirteen hundred in nine hours studio as ghost in the machine and it'll. And apparently Samsung despite. Our warnings is intent. On killing -- damn thing out -- before it even gets out the -- -- if only they would listen to us. Job. Ordinarily killing in the UK right I don't -- -- -- get everywhere and we don't know we don't think. There's no pricing announces no availability -- announced in the US yet there had only been rumors and then now on Amazon UK. The Samsung galaxy -- showed up with a 799. Pound price tag on the sixteen. Gig version. One can only imagine at this transparent -- -- -- and it almost immediately cut it. To 680 pounds one. Which I think happened with a different previous product you where it showed up and then was immediately got -- -- -- had actually. -- -- but in American dollars it's about 12147. Dollars the or 1061. Dollars after -- or a seven inch. Tablet this is right -- -- to be a real pad that's too big to be -- real phone this is also Samsung this is an Apple where Mikey come -- one price and it is frozen. Forever for the duration of the product races this is Samsung -- the week after week this price could be -- know until it finds the right little booklet what they're doing. They're very smart this is really. Their artificially keeping the price -- because they can't make -- up that way the the -- keep that the man. Artificially low -- sold it's all part of their -- things. I'm trying to try and now what they're doing is they're attempting to make -- subsidized diversion but you'll get from carriers that much more attractive because apparently the only way anyone is willing to counter the iPad. Is with a freaking tablet that is tied to a carrier itself under the bill 3-D built in which is a -- not. Got -- -- together I get it for 200 dollars of have to pay more over the life of the product and be locked in Europe -- -- -- those evil bastards whoever they are especially since Wi-Fi is becoming more more like. Completely reliable I I mean -- -- Wi-Fi only iPad. I do not missed not having three -- it is not a factor. Even when I use it it's not own any I want three G -- I actually I want it on the Apple model. I wanna pay full price for the device and -- I wanna pay it no contract monthly fee. If I'm going to -- like the fact that these are gonna be tied to contract I think it's gonna kill every iPad competitor. Faster than anything else -- in the. This is also a kind of first front and -- tablet which is that it is a premium Android tablet there are there already are at the rock bottom Archos and -- tablets he can get that are in that like under 500 dollar totally. That will that it's ice bag this is the first one that is of this thing of this size and have these capabilities to my screen that. That video camera capabilities all the stuff the GPS. The GPS. It has that yeah as this GPS. And has like the actual Android market place -- and can be that it isn't like the -- where it's like it's still a little too small -- so it integrates I can understand Samsung's. Point of view on sound but this is this is the first. Bike -- -- tablet that is. Big enough and featured at -- -- while featured enough to be interesting. And his words -- right this is no way yeah that the world anyway I end net thank you get an actual -- -- for like 300 dollars there's no way. There's no way it costs so much to build this thing like this is all about carrier -- that they which means that they un subsidized price much like it as the Smartphone is a complete -- in fiction real and it's just it's just murderous it's like. What are you afraid -- put out a device charge what it costs and leave the carriers out of it I'm sorry the carriers are poison. They are absolutely into the -- and then I'd like to this tablet market which has so much potential life like that the that carriers that can mean. Worst possible I'm with you -- I think. Carriers in -- is all that. Almost not quite almost makes sense on phones. But it doesn't make sense when you get into computers which is what these things are they're not phones that I used to spy on people don't think of them -- -- they're not. Requirements and people unlock those and I think 12100 dollars a month or more. In carrier service visiting Israeli happier start to get the Google stamp of approval on it and religion and Android tablet with the Google marketplace on -- It really has to be a phone has to have phone capabilities -- yeah it calls on. I know which is like. Why would -- pay. I already have all I'm gonna abilities I already have on I'm already paying. You know 6200 bucks a month for service and asking people are gonna wanna -- is -- -- -- completely right I mean subsidy the subsidy model just. People -- -- -- I hope please people wise up. It makes me long for the Chrome -- tablet -- at the difference is that this one is Android and that's White House this kind of -- -- -- building and and -- bit. Which is kind of speeches anyway it's not like anybody's really gonna use this as a phone. Like the fact they can do it I think it's not necessarily a requirement of having -- but if that becomes the differentiating factor then fine fine. Bring on -- -- give up. People only uses things this phone if they've got if they've got Google Voice numbers which we're there with the removal because when you -- and phone number properly crisis which mechanical but again people will still be carrying their phones. The phone isn't going -- the pocket phone will be with us or the restore the implant phone forever of these. These are not gonna replace phones. Yeah I I think still that the biggest problem is that a lot of standard talents are being made in spite of global caring about -- -- -- -- you know not because -- -- and people today get going they're chasing Apple they're very good point I get there. Have to well. -- if they're gonna search for example they -- to do damage. Is not -- and then leave the carriers out of it does stress management and poison pill. In other Android related news Apple apparently continued to lose the US market share despite a spike in iPhone for sales and its market share was down about one point 3% remove them one point 8%. And you can imagine. Who did who within the green here everybody without actually Microsoft -- the -- -- point 2% while some black somebody has to be up almost zero which means somebody has to be up and have somebody. Not surprisingly is Google yes well if -- carpet bomb the market with five billion different as can use products. -- and I had that's what that's that'll happen there we're talking 5%. That's impressive which means is really pretty remarkable growth this is just for the July versus April period by the way this is just like the last quarter. And the late June iPhone release was not what it was cracked up to be -- Mocha news put it. And they're gonna and and that and now they can't blame the antenna that that if that is the problem. I do well is that development. It but that that ending. That's what that's studies and red is it was partly the antenna but mostly it's the act of the five million excuse add up to a lot of consumer -- and so. It's working so far. Craigslist it did indeed appear before congress okay are -- They got -- -- and it's like did they do this -- -- the -- they spent was William Clinton Powell pick up a name like. -- oh do you have only Washington names in your name okay airline hired by accident because if they don't trust you think of it so scared that. Anyway it William Clinton Powell appeared before the House Judiciary Committee and hearing about sex trafficking of minors. And said we have discontinued. The adult services section and there are no plans to reinstate. The category although Craig's -- is continuing its somewhat passive aggressive stance because he he went on to say. Those who formally posted ads in the adult services category when after advertise elsewhere and -- inspectors evidence this process has -- immediately. Yet -- it look very with -- -- what they've been saying all of them. And they said you know we we fear Craig's list fears that -- utility to help combat child exploitation has been -- diminished. And they said that they think they had been doing good job of helping law enforcement before when they still had the because they were in fact able to monitor them but then by closing them they'll be able and. And they work -- that doesn't make it okay because they were they were tainted no matter what they did even if they try to. Except the tainted goods and then talk. To the cops and do the right thing in monitor the stuff they were still trafficking in tainted goods even though they're trying to -- -- about the excitement and in a way. It's like -- aren't your thing look I don't fight the -- I'm just undo right. And if somebody is traffic in illegal goods -- are stolen guns than Al popular cops you still selling done. Yeah exactly -- and also think there's this this is really cheap motel in my home town that like always has cops outside. That this like constant is these bad things going down this -- now I don't know if that's the motel or bad stuff happens and let people get busted that it. But if you just demolish the hotel. It wouldn't make the problems go away you know the Disco announcer it's almost the benefit for it'd be that magnate hotel -- for all the -- to hang out and -- you know to work with them instead of -- being that this is and that makes it tanner and that's exactly argument and it is that it is a good argument but it stills coming hotel yeah and you still don't want it there and it's hard to to. Square those two things like yes it's good to have. Habit where we can see it but we don't wanna see it. It's more like that that make you go that's right. And and really the corollary is like you. You can demolished you can still -- the hotel but that isn't all you should deal yet mean -- sort of the problem is right that when it comes to trafficking. And when it comes actually dealing with prostitution as an issue in society right whether it's the the busting or -- or the legalization question. We don't all that. We end up doing is this very shortsighted grandstanding where it's like Craigslist have to shutter down -- and we don't really do anything legitimate to -- trafficking on a global. So. Yes I totally agree that there's the frustration. That. This would appear to maybe chip away at the communications decency act there is no violation of a lot -- that a free speech question and then does it you know. Take away -- pretty easy place for the cops to go and -- -- -- -- -- But -- but it it it's sort of like this needs to be part of a holistic attack on. On trafficking which is a horrible horrible global problem and fortunately I'm cynical and I'm sure that it probably will turn out to be grandstanding -- Grandstanding than and in that case -- -- is right -- is gonna go. While it's is that this is a very easy invisible way to attack the issue without. Really attacking the root causes of the issue because attacking the root causes and which is exactly what you're talking about. Is extremely complicated and expensive and not nearly as visible. It doesn't impress people as much as the House Judiciary Committee where you call those. I think is that the decision that they ultimately. Does to some extent. -- -- You know. Nobody is trying to -- on the show at least that it's not a complicated. We're just reporting. With a lot of editorial. In other news today yeah. Every two made -- hundred million dollars in 24 hours it is now the biggest game in Microsoft history. According to my aunt. Halo 3 pulled in 170 million minutes first when he -- -- or hearing a lot about this I -- we are examiners it's. We tried this yet. Now are you part of the 200 million now I'm not one yet lining up and I can't one available I love -- -- -- I get an Xbox now. -- just make sure that you don't get an Xbox slam the Xbox-360 -- the four gig model because it over on the top of their reporting that. When you if you have that one which usually quilted filling 199 bucks and then you get halo reach you when you wanna play -- multiplayer campaign. You totally can now -- not. It -- -- memory and sufficient memory and how much memory -- the slim four gigabytes per gigabyte for good billion by. Now that's a lot of data is bytes on it yes it did not and especially well for 200 dollars really heavy phenomenon and those iphones have more not -- in the absolute terms explorer gigabytes is a lot of memory now I I don't let them report dollars and a lot of money to the 1962 about half of the car -- -- not. They games have grown you fill the space community in the -- -- graphics on Hillary it's like it we're just about co -- corporation I mean. Packets going back I just giving them -- -- I'm -- out of epic a safe storage not Mann mail be corrected I think it enough memory in there -- -- no. And is being -- like onboard storage compartment right it's only enough room for about 25000. Books. And then it's not enough to do coordinated co -- -- an okay if you want to -- -- if you want to play co op multiplayer on your Xbox Clinton an intimate -- by 360 slim hard disk. Which is a 130 dollars. Which brings the grand total yet but they exceed 329. Dollars 98 cents roughly thirty dollars more more then just buying it -- -- -- the eight X. I that's I still think -- that slim as a whole purpose usually out to be out there as like a stream means. Media it's like a media center with I can't -- our video and for the 199 dollars you're not getting the full blown. Console well. I mean yeah but for the McCain hair it's not like they're. Telling people that it's not like they said he won't be able to -- Hillary to multiplayer -- on you know act though they should be a little more because they are definitely pushing this thing like crazy as the cheap one. But this is you keep Xbox thing. And they're not really. It's -- -- out upfront about this is your -- not as functional it's an Xbox that's would be playing all the games especially the the marquee games -- -- I -- -- devil's advocate you can see the extra. Storage they you have to buy -- does he like accessory like -- rock band access than -- that -- get this particular game Moffett. -- -- Thirty but I think it's. But it ends up -- in the total cost more than an actual light spots with onboard storage is sufficient I'll stop -- it doesn't make any -- definitely -- that's alright yeah. Although in that Casey will at least have more you will have more storage then -- -- 154 gigs and thinks that's. And it sounds like rock band drums and rotting in the corner of your -- though there I don't really totally resident Kate and by the way it's elegant U 150 gig hard drive has to cost. Anywhere near a 130 dollars except for the fact that it's Microsoft proprietary branded one which would otherwise Catholic -- about that that's. Crap but when is that -- -- bull hockey it's fastball. Football hockey and then that's -- -- equipment there but that is functioning. According to industry sources speaking to billboard dot me is that Google is circulating a proposal among major record labels for its long anticipated music service do bloodletting include an Al a carte digital download store and a subscription based bit locker -- I. It sounds like. I love our -- -- -- allow Lockhart. Now -- -- I love blocker lot locker so yet micro so I mean expert loops Apple bull island and it nothing with it. I guess -- -- the developers doing stuff but this is little ball -- as soon as well became -- -- Little service -- in impedes their search results -- really. That notice -- this interesting like Google music thing has been rumored for a long time but it never seems to go anywhere and if this seems to be. The first indication that might be -- because there are details such as. It would cost potentially about 25 dollars a year from the store your songs in the locker and then it -- -- -- familiar with this town center what holiday and. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Upload the stuff that they didn't have ordeal library not upload the stuff they did but they had you know they could match it -- license Mac. That'll never -- -- -- -- there's no way that the -- -- I did they are totally let this go through now that's exactly a little while on I have a lot of wasn't and you lawless and Google. Or Apple man. Once they get that they could be like the content of the congressional guys -- like you guys are coming to talk to us about how you earn. It's yeah storage and I wanted -- them started yet it is and it isn't because I mean while I didn't have that kind of thing where you can streaming you -- inhabit the content partnerships with manufacturers to me get like the Logitech squeeze box that will -- your -- collection to it whereas the school would absolutely out those kind of content right Davis said in the heroes of flight and -- have to make some sort of compensation. Type deals. That's saying yes you can you -- you know sweep up any MP threes no matter where -- -- But there would have to be some restrictions on line you know how it works with those apps -- -- I -- Like like not allowing an aptitude -- on -- Android phone -- -- to do PPT get new music today. Welcome specifically not enough -- -- -- I hope they come out I do you feel like even met 25 dollars a year it if they really does. Deliver everything -- want from a cloud locker solution it was -- it sounds the sounds like -- Awesome service that does it and almost as good as spot -- five. Remember spot may possibly. Related story. -- according to our own great fan of -- dot com may be delayed. I -- and man. And -- a little late here -- people also wondered though if in fact spotted by is failing to make agreements with labels. And the music industry because those labels in the music industry are more interest in cutting deals with the likes of Google and Apple one -- which is actually the. Conspiracy theory that that Angelica from Sweden -- yesterday about -- -- yet. -- -- -- They also could be convenient excuse for spot if I mean it. They've been delayed their service -- by last year yeah up until now when it was poised to launch. And this could be just like them thinking like what let's think that excuse present -- overnight. Watching this time around to the whole Google -- their default. It's you never know what -- had a bad guys I mean we've been sitting at the at the table restaurant waiting for the state to show up for like nine hours now it's time we get openly repeat there. I -- spot -- got to get snapped up by a Apple or Google if somebody. Or if it is becoming too late well -- is much everybody loves this -- it's like c'mon. Also mean they love it because they -- -- content that the music industry frankly just may never allow I mean their flat out saying look meat free streaming services are clearly not net positive for the industry. And as far as Warner Music is from Warner Music of CEO Edgar Bronfman junior in February is -- Warner Music is concerned. Will not be licensed. Is that they get all the music you want for -- and then maybe with a few bells and whistles we can movie to a premium price strategy is not the kind of approach to business that we will be supporting in the future. So they are definitely -- -- the industry -- saying like. Can't make any money up this you don't have a conversion you can't prove that people are going to -- paid model of -- everywhere and uninteresting. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I'm pretty much mention the Google of and he left the -- And and that they wouldn't I mean you know. Like that but in the island. And the -- sorry speaking of the double. And. Unfazed but competition has finally emerged -- Jasper source code has finally been released. This is the open source based book. Which and not only is the -- itself a competitor. But come they say you can use their source code to create any kind of skinny one and create your own build your own pace but competitor everybody can do it -- everybody can have their own social network -- Which is very cool because it means if I wanna build the FaceBook competitor and eventually -- the Gaspar hopes that FaceBook links into it's he can link your stuff together. That's really neat. But if we have. Thousand or 101000. Little social network clones and they're not a link together that if these little islands -- they have in order to compete with FaceBook. And I asked for. Needs everybody to be linking it together right not these -- I do remember reading here that there that seeds in a code are linked together -- you could be on one of these little -- and deal to connect people on the other island pretty seamlessly that is that's built into the actual of the social federation model going on the federated social network. Read I read yesterday and I didn't know -- that Zuckerberg actually invested in. In that it's and that's and he -- -- right that's -- hand doesn't keep your enemies close -- -- -- S and the US government should have done with Craigslist and make it. -- -- Anyway that that -- out we'll see -- we you know wealthy obviously whether any of these takes up of the legitimate is but competitor. Not that likely but you know of springs eternal -- all about getting the people not about the code. Interesting story today about sky hook suing Google -- have wireless of the company that provides software and a database for determining location using nearby Wi-Fi signals you've probably heard about them last when we talked about Google -- wireless data. -- that was doing the same thing to aggregate what hot spot locations. Now they're suing Google thing Google has interfered with his business. With unfair business practices including potentially forcing their service -- off of Android phones. And also for patent infringement then what -- look. Has been doing this for a long time -- the first accompanied the big company to do this. Apple used sky -- services in the iPhone board. Doing deal occasional -- -- most the time that you're getting your location iPhone. Beginning from Wi-Fi not GPS. And then they sort through their own and now Google's doing their own and now they're saying two handset makers like Motorola. -- -- -- If you want to be certified you can have he's our service is described as saying okay we're basically we're dying -- first Apple now global and -- come back with the lawsuits. And have to and they have to you yeah I mean and on the one hand it is tempting to -- of the tavern thing they know well how we lost. And you know so -- who read -- -- competitive marketplace however. They have -- the they have not yet at least that we know of sued Apple yet. But they are suing Google and specifically saying that Google used its. Its position used it -- in clout basically to force them off of specific handsets which if true. Is you know. Flat out anticompetitive behavior and pretty interest and the emotional argument here in addition to the factual argument which is pretty compelling. Is that. -- -- supposed to be open and now you're saying you're closing at tower stuff how does that how where's the openness. There is one of the weird things where -- and raid. You know. Code is open you can put on any device you want in theory and and make something but if you really want to get. Who will seal of approval they get -- last say and they can and that lassie can be -- As fine tooth as Apple's would be -- -- of their products -- in what can be on the peninsula can't be. So is open and like you know if you're not gonna get the official Android store on your device and sell it through -- and Google and endorsed kind of channel. Then you can eat well there's different Chinese -- manufactured out there in the world can improve indoor and on the devices that. Yet though an Android and when Google Motorola in the same room together -- end airfield and and -- -- get pushed out no longer open and it's tough I mean. That's totally true -- like the openness of -- and we know is a little bit of a -- a red Herring because it is open source. To developers but the platform itself and this is what actually then I had CEO Ted Morgan says. Is the platform itself is not. -- is not necessarily open device makers can license technologies from other companies and then not be able to deploy -- when he's done. And and that's absolutely true -- mean -- you know every. It closes up at some point -- Yeah. Of closed -- yes I got it says it just is it is now clear. That I 189 Maynard -- nine will never run on windows XP now here's thing I. Well I know and have a lot the next few dead -- her -- PSI down sides IE nine is. Faster than I eat everything else and that's that's -- idea all -- -- I hate is that the big pitch is it's faster lighter cleaner better. And on what computers do you really need a faster browser. The old slow owlen in my office that runs XP -- right install this thing -- -- he. No can do -- there's so many businesses right now who are running -- -- old slow computers and they. They need a little boost here they're not gonna get it for Microsoft. Well nor should they really. I mean the business argument here is Microsoft -- thing hey. We really want -- to upgrade to Microsoft Windows 7 -- of course they're saying so why wouldn't they I mean you know and to some extent like they're not they don't wanna containing. Like we have an email to the suspect -- -- get channel orbit that Microsoft is frequently hampered by the fact that they have so much legacy. And behind them and I don't wanna keep supporting XP forever they certainly don't want to keep supporting XP forever in them in the business. In the enterprise world and they're saying look we have a new product for you it's awesome how about -- it which we. -- -- I don't -- W the next day here at -- -- just no no I -- who -- -- the -- -- on the other -- the reason that a CIO -- -- will do business with a company like Microsoft is because you know the Microsoft will support you when you run out of -- you can't -- dominate next greatest thing. So not rely on the -- is -- the learning. I mean it like to be -- -- if you wanna keep making money out to go the forced upgrade happen not what Apple's been very successful yet get on the other hand Microsoft has extended their XP support. How long because corporations that need it and -- in some playing you know and because the netbooks them -- advocate for them. What you're actually you want the browser to get -- option -- -- open port. -- you you don't want him. Cut out some their -- customers from they had the ability to use the the browser guy notable other browsers that -- that will work -- T yeah that's the -- -- -- that's -- we're running Chrome and most most XP -- here run Chrome. Cause its faster than -- -- On the notebook computers. It seems a little backwards from and probably still will be -- -- -- -- will probably that -- and I'm just. They keep saying Scania -- in -- Faster program path and that is enough for them the old browser add their own standards maybe well weighing -- It's taken its act in the -- -- The company announced in partnership with space adventures. That they're working to launch a space tourism business to launch wealthy space tourists and other non NASA fliers aboard a capsule. That is currently under development by going this EST 100 capsules -- Well hang on a second there's one thing missing that what they're saying is that it they have that -- receipts. That you can. And your loaded than you can get. One of those seats in the capsule and go into space than an audience if they ever buy -- -- is like fifty million dollars by loaded -- area. It is now. Like -- Yeah it's gonna be down to like twenty minute now I think it's. They -- at the beginning of an and it costs around trip is about 25 million dollars. Yeah. And there's one thing missing from the -- -- -- 100 capsule. Windows and look at the picture right now I think I'm gonna go into space for 25 million bucks I love you. If you don't wanna launch and this isn't what looks like a hard drive. That beats a Lego and they'll put forth but I'm kidding Alex and company version -- get the caps on people shake it from the -- package to -- and you land and it pays to -- basically plug it LA please think wait a minute it takes it to the space station. And building like a -- of all window -- talent and that it in on the the things start tumors muscle in on the start to visit. Just have to relying Hampshire at that African windows. -- It this thing in my 25 million bucks I also noted that don't panic if you don't -- -- -- either you know. And comfy chair and you're gonna compete there of this good answers. Get a -- diapers are right we have an email from so the Grenada. Things I didn't hear -- complained that -- school. Aussie Joe the -- UK says whenever people talk about slimming down the browser frame everyone seems to say it's about making it more Chrome. For sure and I agree with it somewhat and it's hard not make the comparison however if you remember when I. But then a good number of people were horrified by this change and would turn it back on so perhaps Microsoft couldn't be the true innovators in the browser game because. They have had to deal with more non tech savvy users -- are not open to change. And have to wait for the likes of Mozilla and Google to soften the users to it. Although it can't and the web standards compatibility and that and at -- aren't. It's interesting point hybrid it is instinct was that -- the same thing I'm actually attend this legacy issue if -- -- that that user inertia and is that they need need. Developers who have. You know different. They -- -- -- -- that's yeah honestly and they just may never be able to change as quickly as somebody who doesn't have like. You know hundreds of millions of users out there you know it's a good thing in a bad thing to -- -- overwhelming market leader in and it means that be your customers are very used anything that they've been -- on time and Chrome had never existed before but that also. -- -- do whatever they want the challenge and I've talked to Microsoft about this when it comes to office and about you know the ribbon was a big deal in the they have all these changes you can talk to Microsoft people and you'll see they have all these innovations that that -- like. We can't do this one yet because people aren't ready for and of three versions -- have to move people along. But the thing that Microsoft does. That is -- bit backwards is they do major updates and -- go from I. Hardware software and and web -- -- offer web manufacturers do incremental updates and they slowly move people yeah. This with over the air updates and Microsoft doesn't quite get it. How did they not like they started it with I. -- -- of the major upgrades. I think that other companies especially web services companies will like -- a great example will just everybody a little bit on how much of an Internet model yet still have Francis. Yeah I think Jay wrote in and that I'd prefer you not reveal my name but it worked with DISH Network and we are thanks for the scoop. Sort of -- Atlanta. Flooding our integrated Google TV box it's a Logitech -- product of the harmony desire keyboard remote. On September 20 ninth alongside some minor other business changes the pricing on the Google TV box is 179 dollars and 99 -- for about their DISH Network. The MS -- -- 299 if you buy it -- additional cost another four dollars a month for the immigration services the box connects to the DISH Network receiver through HDMI out. If she in my out on the -- DVR goes into the Logitech box on an HDMI in analyze that -- has made him out because -- -- TV. And it integrated with the DVR and live TV listings on the spot. They should all be old news he said except for the release date and the pricing. Though they got September 20 ninth or at least the -- version of Google TV through -- and and this is in the larger context we've been kind of know there are no official release dates for Google TV sets yet. And there's been on speculation that -- -- September October so the -- that. Uphold that. And for the record his name is in JC didn't name -- find out if -- -- -- just a letter. Getting people fire also we think maybe jail or -- -- that. With pictures -- pictures there yet not often thank you very much driven Grumman cant we see this product. I think it's that if I Google TV am very curious about some I think it's still overpriced are very excited you -- We've got a dissenting opinion from Greg saying that he thinks Google is that search is. Though the -- he's the least excited about them all things that we talk about on the show in the world in the world everything -- -- he's -- upset about the most exciting thing for me with the back that was so easy to turn off. Does it was a complete waste of Google's time and it's nothing more than obnoxious it gets in my way it makes it harder to -- it slows things down. It's not broke don't fix it Google wasn't broke in more ways than one. Content and -- NATO Google to their credit. There's a big off button at the top there as -- notes yeah but -- -- To the Internet I when I read that can like and -- -- like a little bit -- -- the flashy and flashing and it stopped and only -- -- I like it or it could just be a change thing. -- -- right then and speculate on what's. That and navy might have proposed as there Harris a simple question we document their poll revealed yesterday that's a -- -- On the try to drum up support for the idea Agatha mandatory -- M receiver isn't open in that maybe they asked them. Would you rather have an FM receiver in your cell phone or helplessly watch your entire family -- -- -- -- hurricane tornado -- wildfire bad clam -- incidents -- -- Well you put it past the game into. -- -- -- Entertainment industry go work for Ericsson well and having Kansas he -- said that probably similar look and have polls say anything you want and if you would like to read that read -- the -- -- attachment spam is trying to make a -- -- and haven't. Got our -- be all -- cnet.com 81 in my comments for today's show you can let us know you actually had pulled on her site. You -- also email us that information buzz at cnet.com or your funny jokes. We'll take those two will also take those via phone 10616638. Although -- warrant. Comedy is harder -- island. They get.