Ep. 1262: Where we lock the gates with Marc MaronComedian Marc Maron usually interviews his friends on his WTF Podcast, but today we're turning the tables and getting his take on tracking down Internet trolls, his development as a humorist, and his new TV show on IFC.
-It's Thursday, May 2, 2013. Thanks for tuning in to the 404 Show. I'm Jeff Bakalar. -I'm Justin Yu. -I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez. -I'm not gonna lie, guys. I'm excited. I'm really excited. It's a big deal for me because today on the show we've got the great Marc Maron on the program. -Yes. -Thank you, fellas. -You know, it's a big deal because you know you have a great podcast, WTF podcast. We have an OK podcast. -Yes. -Ah, come on. -When we-- -3 am. -I know. -You got a lot of equipment in here. It's gotta be better than OK. Look at this mixer, right? -Yes. -Look at that. You can barely have any real estate. -My mixer is half the size, a quarter of the size of that. I've only got 6 channels on my-- I don't even know how to operate that thing. -It's all for show. -Yes. We don't either. -We got a big board over there. -There's candy inside of it. -Yes. -What is that board? -It is a switcher right here. -That's for the cameras we got. -Oh. See, you got the video element. -Yes. -Now, there I am. I see me. Yes. -There you are. -Yes, I never did that. -It's the future right here. -You know because people, whenever we meet people who enjoy our show in real life, the first question right is like oh, what podcast do you listen to? -Yes. -And up until like you know 16 months ago I'll be like I don't listen to podcast. -Right. -Yes. -But now I tell them I listen to the WTF podcast. -Oh, thank you. -That's the truth because I really love what you do. -I appreciate it. -If you've never listened to WTF, you should because the way I describe it, it's like this amazing membership to a comedy club. -Yes. -And you have these really exclusive access to kind of the funniest people around basically. -Yes. Some of them, some of them I can't get at because there are some people I have no access to. -Yes, like-- -You think everyone's accessible but some people no, it's not that, it's not that easy. -You wouldn't know because I mean you're really like, I mean you're getting guys like Mel Brooks, you're guys-- -Well, yes. Well I mean there are guys that sort of come up and sometimes there's a window of opportunity to interview people. -Right. -For one reason or another. I am still gonna do whatever I do the type of interview I do but sometimes people are out there on a junket of some kind which I ignore. -Right. -But I will seize the opportunity to get in there and talk to them but some people, they just don't wanna do the show or it's hard to get them on the show. I think I've actually booked people on Twitter. I've reached out, I pestered Albert Brooks. I pestered-- who else have I pestered on Twitter? I actually gotten a few people to come around on Twitter. -Just by poking them? -But Albert Brooks I can't seem to get him. I don't think he likes to talk about himself that much. He doesn't do a lot so you just gotta live with that. Daniel Tosh does not wanna do my show. -Why, what the hell? Why? -He just thought he won't talk about himself. Some people are like that's why I got a public personality and that's all I need the public to know. Enough. -I don't understand that. -Well I mean you'd understand that's in the day and age we live on in now that some people might wanna be private? -Right but their level of transparency especially a guy like Tosh who's freaking all over the place. I mean-- -But it's still a public personality. I get it. I mean he's not-- -He's a sweetheart in real life and he's so nice like-- -He is kind of. -Is that what it is? -No. He isn't. He's a sweetheart. -You just got that brand, you know they-- -I don't know. I didn't push him on it. You know he's a very nice guy. He's one of the only men I know that walks around with 2 little dogs occasionally. -Okay. -But I don't-- you know I don't press him on. He's very respectful. He said I love the show, but I'm not gonna do it. -Right. -Yes. -And on some level I think there will come a time because of the way the culture is in terms of accessibility that we'll actually be impressed. -Yes. -When we meet somebody we don't know everything about him-- -Right. -Right. -Like I have no idea who you are. -Right. -Congratulations. How did you manage that? -Absolutely. That's funny. It's true. We know way too much about everybody. -I kind of understand that sentiment though. Just because I mean on our show I wanted to ask you about doing a podcast by yourself and if that was always the decision to just do it solo. I can never do something like that. I tried one time and it was a disaster, but you know having Jeff on the show or having Ariel here, it's really nice to have that reaction when we're having a conversation. To do it by yourself is really intimidating to me and I have infinite respect for anyone that can do something like that. -Well, that was a conscious moment you know where I did some radio for a year or so, I did some political talk radio but that was sort of a morning crew situation. There was always people in the booth, always people you're playing to. -Right. -But I always thought my mind that if I could get to a point where I could talk on the mic and not need anybody else that that was an amazing-- it would be an amazing freedom. I don't spend a lot of time talking by myself on the show, you know, 10 to 20 minutes at the beginning. -Right. -But I know I can do it. -Yes. -And it's a skill just like anything else. You set your mind to figuring out how to get comfortable and not panic-- -Right. -On the mic by yourself. I mean there are guys that are great at it. There's you know in the righty world. I mean Rush Limbaugh, there's no one better than pausing and waiting. -He's got the dynamic. -And say something that-- -Yes. -And Randi Rhodes of course on the other side and there's a lot of people that do political talk. -Yes. -And that can just man the mic and just stay on. Mike Malloy is another guy. Phil Hendrie who's a genius-- -Oh, he does amazing voices. I love Phil Hendrie. -Genius. -Yes. -I just interviewed him. I haven't put it up yet. But it's a specific way of broadcasting, a specific way of doing radio and I always wanted to sort of challenge myself to do that and then once I got the skills, it opens up a whole new world for you. -I always find myself filling space by saying things like what else, what else, and that is a conversation killer even when you're doing it. -And you don't know you have those quirks until you do something like that. -Oh yes. -Like I can lay out hundreds of you knows. -Yes. -Yes. -I'm a big you knower, you know. -I say you know like nobody's business. -Yes, you're right. And to the point where it's not even you know anymore. It's like-- -Yes. -You know like you know it's just this weird noise you make. -Yes. -Yes. -I do you know what I mean. I do something like that. -Yes. Just like that. -Almost like Ernest. -Really? -I do not know what it is. -Yes. -Yes. -It's pretty lame. -It's a habit because you don't want there to be a silence but sometimes silence even in conversation-- -Sure. -Is important like when you're having conversation with somebody if somebody you know dropped something-- -Right. -On you, you know there you go, there's you know. Your first instinct is like I better jump in there. -Right. -But a lot of times you just maybe he just let it zip for a minute because then the people are whispering like what is happening? -Oh my God. -Yes, yes, yes, yes. -Let it simmer. Yes. -Why steamroll it? -All right. -Yes. It took a while to figure that out. I have to be very conscious of that stuff. -And you can see and you can hear the evolution as you, you know, pay attention to the program. -Yes. From desperate aggravated-- -No. No, none of that. -Emotionally volatile-- -Well, I think the amazing thing-- -To relatively content. -The amazing thing about a show is that you get these mostly private people to open up on a level that I don't think anyone really has access to. So I mean it's kind of awesome that you're here today, not really you know for once be able to turn the tables back on you, not in a bad way-- -Sure. -But to definitely you know give people some insight especially people who dig your show. -Yes. -That kind of insight to you though. -Knock yourself out. -All right. We'll-- -What do you got? -I wanna talk about first the book. -Yes. -All right. Your new book out this week, Attempting Normal. -Yes. Look at that pictures. -This is pretty private, man. -Yes. -Yes. -Just let it all hang out there. -Yes, yes. -I like that. -What? The cover or the book? -Well, hey, both. -Yes. -They were on it. -Fellow cat guy too. I love that. -I like it well-- -Yes. -Justin is a big cat guy. I know you're a big cat guy. -Yes. -All cats are beautiful. -Yes. -I don't understand you people. -I'm partial to my cats but I'll roll with you on it, yes. -I dig your cats too. -Yes, yes, yes. My cats, right? Yes, well that book, yes. It's pretty personal. There's some relatively embarrassing things in there that I think I contextualized pretty well. -Did you ever put something in there and you get it back from like an editor and the editor is like hey, you know Marc, you shouldn't-- -Are you sure you wanna do this? -Sure, you know, that's incriminating. -Yes. I know, absolutely. I wasn't so much worried about incriminating myself but you know when you write memoir style or you realize that like I've had a life and other people were involved and you know my perception of the events that went down are mine. -Right, yes. -But they are my life. So how you treat people in this type of writing is tricky. I mean you do have to, you know, make decisions about possible blowback. -Right. -Personal blowback, you know like how was my ex-wife gonna react to that, I don't know. I mean she's doing all right. You know I think she's okay but I mean I pick that scab. I mean memoir writing a lot of it is picking scabs over. I've got closure on some of that stuff but like that was a good story though. -Yes. Let's go open up that star. -Yes. Let's get that bleeding. -It's a lot like podcasting too. I mean a lot of times when I say something I just like well, if I regret it, there it is for the rest of my life on the internet. -It's out there. -You know that's the thing. -That's not to think about it. -Yes. Sometimes you know but you should think about it. I think to a degree and you get more aware of it the more public you are with yourself but-- I mean there was a piece in there that the last week of editing, like it was days before it was gonna go to press-- -Yes. -That I let my current girlfriend read. You know there was a couple of pieces in there. She had them ready. She tries to distance herself from you know anything that has anything to do with me talking about myself. So it's a tricky relationship. -Sounds like it. -But I've written these pieces in there that involves her and I let her read them you know that last week. She said oh my God, I got a let her read them. And she was livid. She was like this is not, I don't wanna be out there like this. I think it's misrepresented. I think you make yourself look a certain way that I don't even believe and you know my life is private and it was tough and then you're in one of those moments where it's like yes, but it's my art. -Right. -Or I kind of wanna have her around. -Don't censor me. -Yes. -You know so like yes, right. So that's out. So I had to write another piece in the last hours there but the piece that I wrote I think is actually a better piece and I think her point was correct. -Yes. -That you know how am I representing myself in this and because everything you know after it's happened is some sort of revisionism. -Of course. -You know the event happened and then it's just your interpretation of the event. -Right. -And how that evolves over time. -Yes. You have this internal sort of director's cut that you do-- -Yes, and you don't know. You do it by you know-- -Habit. -It's completely revealing of who you are as how you revise-- -Right. -Or interpret that situation. -For sure. -But yes. I think I'll see what happens. I know my father is nervous but you know whatever that after a certain point, you gotta look at it and realize well, you know, I went easy on a lot of this. I didn't write an entire book about him. -Yes. -Or my ex-wife. -All right. -Or my current relationship or my cats or whatever. I chose to write essays as opposed to a one single through line-- -Yes. -Because I didn't wanna deal with that. It was you know I had a lot going on and I didn't know how to do that. How do you do a whole book which is chapters about you, you know, as a comedian that's just sort of like, well I was always a comedian. I was a class clown. And then the drugs happened and then I was sad, you know, like how do you do that and make it unique. I mean I'm not a writer by trade. -Yes. -And I have friends who are brilliant writers and I didn't wanna assume that I was a writer, but I knew that if I compartmentalize it and I wrote essays that I do have a voice on the page and I think I'm a good writer, but that was the way I could handle you know doing these pieces. Like I knew there was a beginning, middle, and end and if I could work within essays, the finish line was a little closer. -Yes. -When you gotta write a whole book, it's sort of like having an incomplete in college, you know, like you wake up you're like oh God I gotta do that or I'm not gonna graduate, you know. So-- -It's due this afternoon. -Right. -Yes. -Exactly. Well it comes to that. And also it was interesting process. You know I wrote it pretty much on my own. I didn't engage my editor until the last minute. -Yes. -Because I'd written one piece and I'd sent it to him right at the beginning and you know he sent it back with all these notes and like my brain couldn't interpret that as anything other like I got a C I think. Is that a C? You know I realize like I'm not confident enough to deal with this shit. -All this red pen everywhere. -Yes. Well yes. Right. -C. -We're gonna do that with every piece that can be a hell and I'm gonna flunk my book. -Yes. -So I just decided to not talk to him. -Yes. -I was like look, I'll hit you up when this is due. -Bypass him. -Yes, yes, yes. So you know and so it became that. You know they wanted 60,000 words. He checked in every few months and like how are we doing. I'm like oh, it's great. It's great. I got nothing done. -Nothing. -Yes. -No. I was doing-- -At the beach ship. -I was doing it by my pace. -Yes. -And then they wanted 60,000 words and the day it was due I gave him 90,000. I said look, now make a book out of this. -Yes. -I'm not married to all this stuff so you do your job. I did mine. -Like it's in your hands. -Let's shape this shit. -Yes. -You know you get back to me, put something together and send it back to me. So we kind of you know built it you know. We built it out from what I wrote and he helped me organized it and I think it came out pretty good. -Right on. Yes. I've already read a few chapters. I mean a lot of people who know you and you are very transparent on the show, feel like if you listen regularly you get to know the kind of person you are. -Yes, yes. -Especially the way you act around different guests. -Right. Yes. -Like we're talking about Mel Brooks before. -Yes. -Hear you smiling the entire time. -Yes. You could always hear me become a 70-year-old Jewish man-- -Right. -At moments. -You just feel like the chameleon. -What? Are you kidding? Yes, yes. -All of a sudden you go like-- -Ayayay. -Yes like the you know the-- -[unk] going on all of a sudden. -I won't go that far. -No? -But you know I do Zelig a bit. -That's right. See people don't know Zelig. Zelig is a Woody Allen movie. -It's a great Woody Allen movie. -Woody Allen basically suffers from a chameleon disease. -Yes. It's a great Woody Allen movie. -And the scene in the jail when he's turning into a Hassidic rabbi-- -Yes. -Doesn't really get much better. -Yes. -And that's one of my favorite Woody Allen-- -And they show the transformation. -It's a self-established-- -It's actually an unsung genius movie that he did. It was very out of the ordinary for him and they utilized a lot of the facts that were pretty fresh at that time. -Yes. -To make it work. -I had to bring this up because you'll dig this. When I was in college, I got to take a class just on Woody Allen. -Yes. -I was in film school from like Take the Money and Run, all the way up through I think at the time was like Hollywood Ending. -Yes. -Was when I graduated and it was just-- after a while they all started just blend together especially in like the late 70s and 80s where it's just like-- -Well, he's a worker you know. So he just wants to keep generating one a year no matter what. Yes, there's some stinkers you know as time went on, but you know he sort of wondered can he do another good one, then he does and you're like all right. He doesn't care. -Yes. No for sure. -He just wants to keep working. -Yes. -And some of them are more resonant than others and some of them are just you know kind of he's hacking himself. -Yes. -But there's a couple that you know he always does something I mean Sweet and Lowdown which he's not even in that I think is one of the great movies that he did, and I like Midnight in Paris even though he's silly. There was a lot of heart to it and then he does that you know, what is it, Break Point is that what it was called? -Match point. -The Match Point. Yes I mean where the hell did that come from? -It's like almost like you had this dream and it's like all right. I'm this guy now. -And there's even some of the I just never made it to. -Right. -But you know certainly early on I mean I watched all those movies. -All right. We're speaking Greek to these guys, but let's move on a little bit. You kind of like hitting the PR jackpot right now and I read you're on Twitter like all right everyone it's a lot of me right now. -Yes, yes. -It's just-- -We'll deal with this together. -Let's get through this as a team, as a group. But you really-- I mean a lot of people struggle in producing anything, but you've got you know the podcast continues to roll on, the book is out this week and then Friday brand new show on IFC premiering at 10 o'clock. -Yes. -Called Maron which is sort of the culmination of everything, right? It deals the podcast, deals with your personal life a little bit. How much of that is really you? How much of that is sort of stoned into it because-- -Well, it's a strip of comedy so each story, each episode is driven, story-driven comedy and it is about my life, so there is a podcast in it. At some of the events I would say it probably takes place towards the beginning of the podcast when everything was sort of crapped out on me and I had to make some sort of change and some sort of choice for myself, and I chose to do the podcast in my garage and so it's around that time. You know I'm not too far away from-- yes, I'm farther away than I should be to have the feelings I did, but I was not out of the divorce that long. -Okay. -So you know there's elements of me dating, there's elements of me struggling you know with my management, there's elements of my relationship with my father. And you know the first episode is based on internet troll event. -We've never heard of that. -Oh, God, the worst. We live in a troll culture right now in all levels. -Oh. -It's just predatory douche bags everywhere. -It's pretty tough out there. It sounds like judging from the content of that pilot, does it really get to you that much? I mean do you-- -Sometimes. It depends on-- I'm getting a little better at detaching but it's just like I don't know why it's like that because on every level, you know whether it's you know television or legal matters, you know, it's really a troll culture, you know, that's what people are after is you know pestering people or being predatorially you know shitty. -Yes. It's just this passive aggressive sort of anonymity. -It happens everywhere. -Yes, oh yes. -And because I think it's because you know given that, you know, we don't manufacture a lot in this country now. It seems that all we produce are assholes. -That's it. -You know what do you make in America? Assholes. We have an asshole factory. -Big export. They're gonna learn that in social studies. -Yes. -Years from now like-- -In every state there's a huge business in creating assholes. -It's true though because I mean you know we deal with some of that ourselves and there's always some guy who has every answer. He knows exactly what you know you're doing wrong and he's right or she's right. So do you-- -But that's not even-- that's trolling to a degree but at least you know they think they know something, but the thing is that a lot of-- you gotta realize a lot of them do it just because that's what they do. It's like almost like this game they play. -Yes. -They don't realize and they love it when people are sensitive because then they win their game. -Yes. It's a version of fanaticism because they want that reply, they want-- -Yes. They usually wanna get under your skin and I blown up on them. It's like you know just like-- you dumb shit and then they're like ah ha. So as soon as you do that, you lose, but the first episode is sort of based on an event. You know I found that in doing the show, a lot of the stories come from my life but really when you think you have stories, a lot of times you just have events and something happened and then you have to build the story around that because not everything that happens in your life has a beginning, middle, and end or-- -Sure. -And sometimes it's just a piece of a larger story and sometimes you have to expound on it or heighten it or fictionalize parts of it. Most of the episodes are taken from events in my life and they're built upon, a couple of them are completely fictional, but the troll episode was definitely real. Some guy was, you know, leaving posts on someone's blog that I knew. It was a pretty big blog. You know just basically campaigning against me just like I'm an asshole and a racist, I'm a sexist, I'm a you know. It ended up misquoting my jokes. And I tracked the guy down. I figured I had to do detective work. -Oh, look at this. -Like I say you know I saw his name and then I saw his avatar on the blog, you know, which was from a movie, and then I went to Facebook. I looked up a name and I looked at the 3 guys that had the name and then I found out that one of the guys had a favorite movie that matched the avatar. And I'm like that's my guy. And then I started messaging him. I'm like sort of like you know if you're gonna shit on me, you know at least you know put the whole joke in. -Right, right. -And he's like oh, you're having a problem with the, you know you think that's gonna save you. And I went back and forth with this guy on and off for a year or so. -Really? -Yes. I guess I just needed him to like me. And eventually though it arched out, you know. He was like I went through a bad time in my life and you know we're okay and whatever. I don't think he likes me but we rode this thing all the way through, but it didn't really leave the computer that much. -Yes. -So when I talked about that event as a possible story line, then we're like well we gotta get me out, get out in the world and track this guy down. He has everyone's information and between Twitter or Facebook or personal blogs. I mean you know where people are going. I mean most people are like you know I'm gonna be at the thing and I'm like all right well now I know where you are. I guess I'll be at that thing too. So that sort of how that happened. So we built that story out in that way. -Yes. So after you murdered him. -Yes. -Well how did that-- was that a big fallout after the you know. -Well, you know it's interesting when you kill a troll you know it's like if a tree falls in the forest, you know, but no. I didn't murder him but it does have a good-- it is sort of a humbling end to that story on the show. -Yes. I feel like you know vampires feed off blood and trolls feed off reaction. -Sure. -Right? -Yes. -It's the same sort of thing, man. -Sure. -That's all they want. -Yes. -We've had our fair share. -You know you bring up Twitter and that seems like this huge tug of war because all of social medias, this great place to try out new jokes. I follow a lot of comedians on Twitter. -Yes. -And it just seems like you know people will react the way they wanna react. -Yes. I'm fairly anti-joke on Twitter. I mean I'll do whatever I do. I just like impulsive things. No matter what-- I try not to get too hung up on crafting things. Occasionally I will, I've been a little swack lately because I've been busy but you know I'll just go on and on. There was a period on Twitter early on when I got on to where I would do complete stories. -Yes. -Like I'd be in a hotel room and just be bored and I just start tweeting these events that weren't really happening. And yes, some people dug them but other people like dude, you're blowing up my feet. It's like well how important is your-- -It's true. -And then unfollow me, you idiot. Like that's the thing that people are like you suck. And I'm like yes, unfollow me. -Yes. -Restructure your priorities. -Right. -That is like you know I don't care if you leave. -Yes. -You know but that is not what it's about. When I've gone back and forth and why are you just trying to get you and like whatever, you know. Just forget about it. And unblocking became fun. -I actually prefer anecdotal comedy like that on Twitter because when everyone's getting so topical, like for example like the new pope. When that story came out, it just seemed like my entire feed was clogged with joke after joke. -Yes. -And a lot of them were funny, but after you read the 50th one-- -You get sick of it. -Yes. You get sick of it. -I'll do one. You know usually with topical, I try to do one. -Yes. -One thing that just covers it for me. -Okay, and then you're done. -Then I move on, then I move on to like you know-- -And you wipe your hands. -My shoes or you know with what's going on in my brain. -Right. -Like eating, how I feel about what I'm eating. -Well also you don't get a lot of delivery that makes the jokes. -Sometimes. -You know part of the comedian. -They're like you know classic-- -Right. -You know 1, 2, 3 jokes, but yes, I'll take pictures of records. Yes. I wasn't into this now. -It's not the equivalent. It's not as bad as you know this is what I'm eating. -Sometimes I don't do that too often because it's pretty spectacular. -Gotta be careful with that. The people-- that's like one thing I feel like it's the big faux pas on Twitter. -What? -People who overshare like that, with the food. -It depends who they are and what the angle is. You know sometimes you gotta take a picture of that sandwich. -Sometimes it's like man, this was cooked just right. -This is why I'm hating me. This is going into it now, going into my face. -I wanna talk about Reddit real quick. -Yes. -Are you familiar with it? -Not at all. -Before you did the AMA? -No. I just did it yesterday. -Yes. -I've never done and I've never been there, never been to that neighborhood. -So what do you think of that because Reddit is basically the, I don't know-- how would you describe it. It's like the underbelly, it's the gulch. -Yes. It's like a collective subconscious of the internet. -Yes. -In a more filtered way than it is on Twitter. -Yes. The teeming, the slightly filtered ID. -Yes. Exactly. -I don't know. It seemed okay. You know I have not engaged with it. I don't have a lot of time to do shit, you know. I'll spend time on Twitter, you know, like Facebook became boring and too complicated for me and you know the Reddit thing was fine, you know, just answered people's questions. I just kept scrolling down and answering. I'm sure there's other things on there. -Yes. -There's a reason why you looked like it could be a pretty deep rabbit hole. -Oh yes. -But I have not engaged with it. I'm sort of out of the loop because I've been you know busy. You know when you get busy and I'm producing 2 podcasts a week and now with everything else going on, your life becomes a little smaller-- -Right. -Than you would and I'm not sure that if you're on Reddit it necessarily implies you're living a large life, but you certainly have access to a lot of other people's ramblings. -Yes. -It's a scary slippery slope. It's a rabbit hole and you don't really wanna go down there especially if it kills productivity. -Yes. The thing about Reddit is that I read it almost every single day but I can't tell you about anything that I've read on Reddit. -No. -Anyone from yesterday. -Well yes. That's how-- it's all like drugs. You're just doing it to engage and get out of yourself and you know get some juice and like oh, that pissed me off. Hey, that hurts. Hey, look at me, I'm smiling. -That's funny. -Yes. -Yes, that's horrific. I wanna talk about you know tech in general with you because on your show I kind of get the vibe this sort of Luddite. You know not necessarily anti-tech. -Yes. -But you know you've embraced the podcast thing and it's definitely led to a lot of awesome stuff. -Yes. -How do you deal with that? -Well, I mean you know I adapt to things. It's not so much of Luddite. It's just I really need to be walked through things and I generally only used tech that-- you know the only way I know how to use tech is if I need to use it for something. So and I guess that's how a lot of people are. So like well teach me what I gotta do to know how to do what I need to do. -Right. -So I'm not essentially a Luddite, but I'm not that great with a lot of things. I mean I've got a new Mac and it's a great computer and I'm sure I don't use it for anything. It's just-- you just have to accept that. It's not even an age thing. I'm just not a big homework guy and I'm not gonna sit down and problem solve that much. -Yes. -I don't have the patience for it, but I usually have people around that can do that for me and then once I solve the problem then go oh, it's just this button and you know it's fine. -Sweet. -You know I don't panic as much as I used to but I generally just need to know how to do what I need to do. -Right. -Like you know the things that I need. You know I got a Zoom H4n that I take on the road and I know how to set that up so I can record my podcast you know in the garage. I've got a little analog mixer that I run into the garage man so I need to know how to do that. I need to know how to send files. I need you know. -You get by. -Yes, yes. I get by. I'm not against anything. Certainly you know social networking once I figure that out I'm all over that shit and you know it eats my life up, but yes. I'm not a gadget guy really. I'm pretty earthy when it comes right down to it you know. -Okay. -I'm listening to vinyl again and I'm trying to. I'm moving backwards and I don't do video games, never been a gamer, never done any of that shit so it's not really a part of my life. -Vinyl is a big deal now. -Yes. -It's become this sort of cult. -And I thought I was the only guy you know. -No, no, no. I mean you know we have a guy on who swears by it obviously. I grew up with my parents playing records and stuff like that. You can't explain that to a younger generation. They don't appreciate things like that, not all of them. I don't wanna make a blame to them but it's tough for them to understand like sound quality is a big deal. Okay? You're playing music out of your iPhone speaker. There's a problem. -I think there's been research about you know the real difference between the digital and vinyl, but I do think there's a depth there and there's a warmth there and there's also the act of playing a record and the act of sitting with a record, and you know if you spend a little bread on-- you know I've got the low end to the high end, you know. I put some money into it. I got a tube amp and it's you know it's very-- it goes right you know, there's only a volume and a balance knob on it and the turntable goes right into it. So I'm hearing music that I listened to the records when I was a kid but I never really heard it in that way. So there's something to be said about that. I think that you know digital recording is what it is and it's all very amped up and it's cracked out in a way and you can hear a lot of stuff but you don't really hear the mix that was laid down initially. -Right. -And a lot of stuff that was recorded on analogue and specifically meant for record, it reads a different way. -Yes. -But there are records that I listen to when I was a kid, you know, and I never had a very good sound system, but I've never heard them like this. So you're really coming to it and you're like I never noticed that before. -Sure. -You know there's a range to it that's very different. -Absolutely. -Yes, it's funny. I like when listening to people talk about listening to music because when you talk about records, you always say you'd listen to a record, whereas with an MP3 you play an MP3 becomes a more passive experience. -Yes. -Yes. -When you listen to a record you sit down and you pay attention some more. -It's an aesthetic there. -And that's when you get the nuances of the music. -Yes and you know it has to do with the room you're in and there's a lot of and things. You know I finally got the system so it's sort of, it sounds the way that I want and I like it, but you know you spend money on this shit. -Oh yes. -And you gotta get-- if you find yourself an honest high-end audio guy, you know you're like all right. I just spent you know 5 grand on this stuff. How does it compare to spending 90 grand? -Right. -What's the difference? He says yes, about 4 percent. -It's worth it. -Yes, yes. One thing I'm glad I didn't spend 90 grand though I think I've never be able to enjoy any of it. -We're almost out of time. I wanna talk real quick about Howard Stern. You're on his show-- -Yes. -This week. What was that like? I listen to your show all the time. You said you were nervous? How did it come out? -Well, the thing is like you know as a comic and somebody you know who's known him all my life-- -Of course. -You kind of wanna like I never did that, you know, and you wanna meet these guys. You know it's a grail in a way, you know. It's like one of those things you work for and I was never a big Howard Stern listener, so I don't have a relationship with him. You know I've listened to him a few times and I get what he does, but I didn't grow up listening to him and I don't listen to much talk radio in general that was an NPR or whatever, but you know he's an impressive guy and you know he's the best at what he does in the way that he invented something. You know he's an original. -Yes. -He set a standard, but I didn't know what he was gonna come at me with-- -Right. -And for some reason I always assume that people are gonna sandbag me with some weird thing that I gotta answer to, but the truth of the matter was that you know in where he didn't have the sunglasses on, you know it was all and I get what he does. You know when you walk in he's already talking to you. -Yes. -And then the guy, the producer, Gary, he puts the earphones on with the mic attached so you're already-- -You're in. -Right and I get that device. You know I've timed this sort of group, regroup or get settled. -It's like a psychological thing for sure. -Sure, but it's fine with me. I mean I just didn't know what he was gonna come at me with, and you know I'm pretty candid. I wasn't that worried about me you know choking or you know getting, you know, not wanting to talk about something, but I didn't know what element he was gonna hit on and he chose jealousy and anger and like oh yes. We can do that. He used to like that too. -Yes. -So I think we connected and he was very present and gracious and you know it was a great experience. It was really-- it's rare that you meet people that you respect. -Yes. -And they actually exceed your expectations. -Right on. -Like you know a lot of times you meet people that you respect and like that guy was an idiot. -Yes. -Yes. That didn't go well at all, but I just approached people as people now and you know I try to just, you know, be humble and have the experience and it was a good one, so it was very-- I was in there for an hour and I didn't get in to too much trouble. -Yes. That's all we can ask for, man. -You know he's the kind of guy that'll be like so you're an asshole. You're like yes, yes. Okay. I am, I am. -Is that the road you're going down? -I am an asshole. You're right. And I'll say it again. No, but you're a complete dick. Yes, yes. Yes, I am. Yes. -You want me to be a dick, I'll be a dick. -But I am. You know I mean that's his style. -Yes. -You know it's not an attack. -Right. -You know it's a fact. -Right. -And he did some pretty good amateur psychoanalyzing of my dynamic of my father of why I'm angry. You know he did his homework and it was flattering and it was a good experience. -Right on. This has been great, man. Thank you so much for being here. -Thanks for having me, fellas. -Guys-- -This kid talks too much. -Yes, I know. -His fingers are busy with the camera and what-not. Now it's a big deal. Everyone go buy the book Marc Maron, Attempting Normal. It's out now and then Friday go watch IFC's Maron premiering at 10 pm. -Thanks, man. -I'm pretty cranked up about that, yes. -And listen to podcast. -Absolutely. -Tomorrow I got Huey Lewis on. -Oh, man. -I got an opportunity to interview Huey Lewis. I'm like yes, I'll talk to that guy. -Are you kidding? -Why not? -He's a big guy. -What did you bring up, like Back to the Future stuff? -Yes. Well, he doesn't like to talk about that, you know, because you mean the song or the-- -Well, just like you know he's a big sort of parties like-- -Oh no. There was something he didn't wanna talk about, some legal thing about-- -Oh, okay. -The Ghostbusters, was that his song? Didn't someone rip off it? I don't remember. -I don't know. Yes. -I didn't talk about Back to the Future too much but I talked a lot about like a lot of these guys you know you just take for granted or you're thinking what has he been up to or you just that guy that did thing. He was you know he started when he was really young as a harmonica player in the Bay Area you know kind of roots rock band. -Right. -And ended up in England. You know he had a wife, you know, so we got a lot into that, talked a little bit about Robert Altman because he was in Short Cuts. -Oh, really? -Yes. He had a part in that. He's one of those guys that found a body you know with what's his name, Fred Ward and Buck Henry and him with those guys who-- that's a great movie, and you know we talked about, you know, about music and about the Bay Area and about growing up in the Bay Area during the 60s and how he and his friends didn't like hippies so they go to Oakland and listen to R&B music. It was good, it was good. -All right. We'll listen to that. That's on Friday, right? -Tomorrow. Yes. -Make sure you listen to that. That's WTFpod.com and again follow Marc on Twitter. We're gonna do that to you. -Okay. -There it is. -@MarcMaron. That's a Marc with a C. -It's there, right there at the top of my page is a troll guy that's apologizing I think. -There it is. -Yes. -You feed off that. You love it. -Well it's like you know you turn your back on O&A and you do Howard the mic, I was just on O&A, asshole. So like when, I must have missed it. Yes, you did. He says I'm sorry. LOL. -LOL does not make it okay. Just because you happen to think it's fact does not make it okay. We need to get that out there. Again, next time you're in New York, man, we love to have you back. It's been great. -Yes. -Sure, anytime. Thanks, fellas. -We really appreciate it. Thanks for doing it. -Appreciate it. You bet. -And you know everything with the podcast, it definitely means a lot to know that people are now because of shows like yours, taking it forward. -Yes. -Making it relevant. Making it important. -Well, thank you. -All right? -As long as the patent trolls don't shut us down, we'll be okay. -All right. Keep doing it. We will be here tomorrow. Caroline McCarthy is on the program. The number is 866-404-CNET. You can email us the404@CNET.com. That will do it for us today. Thank you again to the great Marc Maron. We're back here tomorrow. I'm Jeff Bakalar. -I'm Justin Yu. -Ariel NuÃ±ez. -This has been the 404 Show. Have a great Thursday. We'll see you tomorrow.