Apple Byte Extra Crunchy
WWDC 2017 recap and reactions (Apple Byte Extra Crunchy, Ep. 87)We break down everything from Apple's latest event, including HomePod, iPad Pro, iMac Pro, iOS 11 and more, with CNET Senior Editor Scott Stein.
[MUSIC] We are live coming to you from San Francisco, California. It's the Apple Byte [UNKNOWN] podcast with your host, Mr. Brian Tong. What's up everybody, welcome to the show. Guess what, you guys all tuned in, we had some issues with our iTunes podcast before for the pre show, the preview of WWDC. You're here for the WWDC recap show. We're going big here, and when I talk about big we're talking about our exec, well fine, Senior Editor. I call him Editor extraordinaire, Scott Stein in the house joining us for this entire podcast. Are you ready for this Scotty? Yeah I'm totally ready, I've even got a swivel chair. That adds, is that like an augmented reality live stream? [LAUGH] This is my VR chair, you've gotta have swivel in your VR chair. Absolutely so everyone just obviously the orders of business when we start this show off this is a complimentary piece to our Apple Bite. Video podcast that comes out weekly. Here we get a really deep dive, get in depth and talk to you guys and gals as well as the experts here at CNET. But in case you want to be a part of the show, because that's what it's all about, you can always call us. It's our voicemail system at 1-800-616-2638. I think there's a lot of you that have thoughts and feelings about what just happened we'll talk about that, but we also want to hear from you,so make sure you call in, your name and where you are from, and what you want to talk about. Let's just jump into Scott, you were there on site. I think that the way that main stream media has been covering this event is always kind of a little different than how the tech media covers it, of course. There is a lot of excitement about the home pod and we are going to kinda use that as our launching point The homePad. Tell me you're there, you did get to see it, correct? Yeah, I got to see it, I got to listen to it. And that's what I want to hear about, a lot of people aren't preview to been able to get into these demo rooms and see it. Can you explain to us exactly what they even showed? Because it doesn't feel they obviously, when they announce it, they position it as music speaker. They really weren't trying to focus as much on the smart aspects of it, maybe it's not baked yet that's fine. But what did they actually show you on site. Really, just the speaker demo. They completely didn't do, they didn't do anything smart with this thing. In terms of smart functions, so this was a, just a chance to listen to it. And if you didn't already get the message on stage that they were focusing on music for this and how it sounds, that was completely the focus. [SOUND] So you're in a room and you are sitting down listening to five songs and Apple showed it next to Sonos Play 3 and Amazon Echo. So that was interesting, there were actually competing products To listen against which is really not often the case. In that demo and I'm not an audio reviewer so I want like Ty [UNKNOWN] in there or someone, I want their ears. But even they said it's hard to tell in a contained demo. You can't really judge what happened to make that experience occur but it sounded really good sure. That demo was really crisp. Booming and they were trying to show that they worked in 360 degrees, that if you walked around the room, it sounded good from different angles, whereas the Play 3 up against the wall and the Amazon Echo sound flatter and or tinnier. I mean Echo sounded much different. Sonos But it didn't have this same 360 sound. But you know what is that mean and how does that actually going to feel later. But they are showing that this is, and they also played not just one home pod but two home pods. So I got to listen to two in the same room. And that's one of the pitches they're making is don't get one, get two. Set them up as speakers, multi a home pod to your house and they basically act as stereo speakers. They split the music and do a surround, more of a surround effect, like you would with Putting home speakers in your house for anything. Hey Scott so here's the thing right, it's always interesting when you're at a keynote because there's always kind of some level of the way that Apple shapes this and sometimes you're around the buzz but. You know, I can't ignore the fact when they're demoing this, it's almost like yeah by the way, two home pods are 700 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. And when you talk about that just from the competitive landscape, we know that Apple charges a premium. You know, my guess before the keynote would be that it would be like $249. The Amazon Echo is $179. The Google Home is $129. It said they went 349, and so it seems, are they, when you've been in so many of these events, I don't want to say are they still kind of, they are in this bubble of their own world, but to kind Kind of just brush it of like, get two. It's $700. Like- [LAUGH] It's almost like, are they paying attention to what's going out there? We know they have a high-end customer that will buy that stuff. We get calls and my emails about that all the time. But you can't ignore that $700 for two speakers is completely out of the ballpark of what is actually happening in the industry from a sampling of Speaker slash, more speakers. Yeah, I mean they were clearly playing in like a sono space, or like banging all of sense sort of territory. This felt like that type of a demo versus anything like Amazon ACTO, or Google Home. And also those are on sale A lot you can get it for 100 bucks and you can get them as basically stocking stuffers. Even if you're not fully on board with what a smart speaker does, at 100 bucks you play around with it. And at 349 that's well out of that range. So you're not going to just play around with it for that price. And that's where I think this is a very different proposition. I thought that it looked like just a big marshmallow that I would wanna toast. Yeah. The other thing that you noticed is how they positioned it in. They clearly said this was a music speaker maybe it's because they didn't have the big functionality. The biggest that I was expecting and we had talked about this before of Apple could do here at WWDC. Is just talk about their vision for Siri and their platform. And it just really didn't happen. There were nods to Siri getting a little better, but there was no actual real deep dive of how it's smarter, why it's smarter, what things can it actually do. Was that a missed opportunity or is it something that you think okay, I'll give you a chance to talk about it more in September, but if we don't talk about it anymore in September. It's got to be kind of a red flag that as the industry is moving in that direction where does apple really stand? Eric to think about that whole show, I actually expected a lot more talk about Siri in general and for all we were expecting a lot talk about Siri. I don't think it was talked about all that much and not enough. And, I am holding the air freshener here, the Google Hum. [LAUGH] I've got it, but look, it's so small. It's like a really cute little thing and you can just put this somewhere and not worry about it. But this is the market, Get, that Apple needs to think about what are they doing to make their thing smarter? And I think there's a lot that needs to be addressed with that, sure. How apps hook into it, how Siri's going to listen better. They better have a separate event diving into all of that. I don't know if that can be shoehorned into, share the stage with an iPhone event. Because that sounds Like a lot. Maybe it's a separate event. And it's coming out in December and so for Apple sometimes a month means like the very end of the month. So is December going to be like December 31st? I have no idea. But usually they tend to, the window tends to be a little bit later. I don't know if that's anecdotally. Yeah I really wanna know a lot about what its going to do, how its going to be aware in your home. That's an interesting part of it to its how its meant to be spatially aware, and understand where the other one is, or even they didn't explain how. But how it understands whats going on in your room. Is it sending out Is it infrared or sound waves or, you know, what is it doing to map you room out and push the audio in a direction that it says makes the most sense. So that's pretty interesting as a tech. There are others that I think have dabbled in that, but That kind of remains to be seen. That was really not explained. What is the media's feeling around it? Because when you're there everyone knows that they're behind Amazon Echo, there behind the Google home, and when Apple talks about, is it almost like, I don't wanna say it's tongue-in-cheek, but are the reporters kind of like, okay. You guys have to admit that you're not there yet, but they don't admit that. Is there almost a weird tension or thing that is just there while they're talking about this and you guys are like you guys are really behind still? I think we're just waiting for some of those things to show up, and when Apple is going to Applelify the solution. I think that when we see VR being mentioned on stage, you go, "Ok, VR is here. Apple is finally addressing VR." The same thing with AR. I like the direction that they were choosing with AR. I feel like it's almost like Google Cardboard. They're trying to make it much more accessible, and I think it's a smart move. But, yeah, you do wait for machine learning. There was a machine learning drinking game online How many times can you mention it? You also get numbed out when you start hearing machine learning, because what is it, it sounds like an 80s dance craze. [LAUGH] Machine learning,craft work, it's very, what does that mean for people? Exactly. It means like eight different things, there's a billion ways you can apply it, more than eight you can apply it so many different ways than machine learning does things. It's really like programming, that doesn't really explain what it does at the end. So I do think that there is a question of that, on the other hand. Apple will also I'm always interested that press sometimes even seems more optimistic about some of the directions like the iPad introducing computer features. That's a whole other things we can get into Yeah yeah well yeah. The iPad because I have a few distinct thoughts on that. Well we'll transition over that. I do want to talk a little bit just quickly, since you did mention it earlier here, about the augmented reality push for Apple. I thought it was really fascinating because we've seen demos like that before, but then all of a sudden again it shows how powerful the muscle The ecosystem, the reach that Apple has when once they show this you're like, holy crap, you have all these devices on the market. You won't need to buy any single bit of additional hardware to enjoy these experiences. And developers obviously are smart enough to be thinking, hey the platform is there, the app store is there, the devices are there, it's time for me to finally develop for the IOS platform. When they doubted there insanely the largest era platform, they absolutely are. And it's smart just from a business stand point. Yes and they also can, as compared to Google, I was thinking why isn't Google doing like air tool kit in its Android. And I think the answer is that Apple just has a more contained hardware platform. And they can say, just A9 and A10 chips, that they can optimize graphically for it. And I think that's why Google had to make the Tango phone, among other things. And that same thing with Daydream, where only certain phones get Daydream VR. Because there were just so many Android phones, and so many Android solutions That they can't optimize for particular things unless they create a cutoff, so Apple at least has that advantage, and it's smart because then you have a lot of people using AR. We're already using AR apps, between Snapchat, Pokemon Go, et cetera. And they're basically saying, okay, we know everyone's making these things anyhow Let's just make them better and more consistent. I think their trying to create like a core framework in thinking like maybe down the road if their thinking about other types of things, that can start being setup now. But its beginning. That demo with the lamb I thought it was really cool. It looked better than I got to look at Microsoft's View mixed reality, which was an AR through Windows machine. And they had that at their education event. That was okay, but it was a little more like pop-up and a little bit more janky. It didn't look as polished because again, I don't think it was as graphically optimized. From what I saw, but I guess it was an early peek. But, yeah I think it's good. I think it's not rocket science. I don't think it's something that's really all that different than other things that are out there. But bringing it together, I'm not an engineer, who am I? It might be rocket science, I have no idea. [LAUGHTER] Such a dismissive thing for me to say about rocket science. Come on. Scott, you're such a jerk. It's not rocket science, I mean anybody could do it. I do think it's really, it looked really good. I think for a lot of people, this is going to be what AR is. And so it's a smart move for Apple with that. VR though. It looks like they're just trying to make creative toolkits, Yes. For high end platforms, and it's like, if you're making your big Star Wars experience at ILM, or if you work in VR design Sure, but they're not even looking at like games or the average person using VR. The other thing is, and as we talked about this AR/VR platform, and how Apple is really sinking their teeth into it. They showed off the iMac Pro. And obviously, it's going to be a beast and obviously, they're like, look, you can develop VR on here, you know, our metal two platform is going to be able to help support that as well, so we have the tools in place, but it reminds me a lot of, hey look, people don't think of the Mac as a gaming platform. People have already started their development and their workflow on the PC for VR development. Although they have the hardware there, yes. It's a build it, and they will come. I'm really curious to see how many developers are gonna be all of a sudden, okay. We're just gonna go to the Mac exclusively and develop here now. When HTC Vive, Oculus, they've established at least a framework for years. Yeah. And will those developers and those companies all of a sudden Wanna pivot. Will that iMac Pro be that compelling that will want to do that? Do they want, actually if they looked at the Mac platform, would they maybe want to look at the actual future MacPro modular design instead of Hey we're gonna go all gung ho on a $5,000 plus iMac Pro, I think I guess. [INAUDIBLE] see what they are trying to build there and then lay the foundation. But as of usual, tight, hardware, software goes hand in hand. I don't know if developers are gonna flock over the iMac. I haven't seen even any stories of developers saying we're definitely gonna give the Mac a try now for our VR/AR development. At least, let's say VR development. Yeah I totally agree. First of all there was that, they've acknowledged there's a future Mac Pro that'll be more upgradable and you'd want to wait for that. If you are developing VR and you're really in the industry you're probably using got to be using Windows then for all of its Ability to experience, and develop, and the graphics flexibility. There were some tweets or some comments that had said that this was more for people who already use Macs and I think that I would agree with that. I think they're trying to say that here's a solution should you wanna use Macs we're gonna be there, we're gonna offer this and. It's available now versus later, but I agree, how many people are going to pick that? I don't know. I think it's trying to provide a solution for high-end Mac users who want to also dabble in creating VR and have a machine that's capable. That's definitely a subset, I don't know. If you're buying something that's $5,000 It's not upgradeable, I don't know. Right, that sounds wrong. It doesn't sound like the most attractive proposition. And yes you can find buy one potentially with 18 core [UNKNOWN] processor base iMac Pro. But again it still won't be expandable once you buy it, right? I mean, it won't be truly expandable. The other thing that I saw when we were watching this, go ahead. Then it just becomes the ones that your kids use. [LAUGH] Like my The $10,000, 18 core- Yeah, do your homework on the Mac Pro Hey Minecraft looks amazing on the iMac pro, come on, let's not discredit that, okay? But the other thing about the iMac Pro, when I saw the announcement, the first thing that I just, when you have what I call the sniff test and when I watched it I was like wow This was their actual vision for their next Pro machine, we know the Mac Pro, the trashcan, the cylinder design hasn't been touched, and they acknowledge that they made a boo-boo. But it's really interesting because the iMac Pro that we saw today is really what they believe or believed For at least the past three years that this was gonna be their next new Pro machine. When all of a sudden this April they're like actually yeah, we realize we're alienating our Pro users that want expandablity and customization. But it, I don't wanna call it a lame duck product because it's going to appeal to a certain audience. But that's what they thought. Would be their next Pro machine. I thought I was kind of interesting like, it's almost seen like a relic of the past of their thinking being put on stage because they still have to. But I'm really curious to see how many people are gonna actually buy the iMac Pro with that idea of a Pro machine. I think the value is still there, the price one is there, but that is what they felt with their Pro machine. What do you think about that? Did you feel that at all either? Yeah it's hard to tell. I would say I'd want to wait. I'd kick myself if there was a new Mac Pro that was more like the thing I'd need. So, yeah, it's launching at a weird time. December, or end of the year. When is it coming out? They said December, I think. yeah, so it's an odd time and I don't know, I mean you might just want to wait. See what else happens That is what I am saying, I totally agree Yeah, I just don't know. Meanwhile, I guess the MacPro became the home pod Exactly That thing looks just like the MacPro You know what the best part is? I don't know if you have seen the videos but if you look at the original Mac Pro launch videos, you know when they have their sexy teaser videos. I kid you not, the angles, the way they tilt it, the way they shoot it. I know. You could literally swap them out for each other. It's just missing the hole in the center, the hole is now the Siri. The Siri glow right? But it's smaller but I mean it really is like very much in that zone. We pulled out on the Apple Bite, one of our prototypes that we stole from their headquarters and we literally wrapped a Mac Pro in fish net stockings. [LAUGH] That's great. That's exactly to your point, right? Make your own. You can have a Mac Pro looking thing for 349. [LAUGH] Now, let's jump to the iPad Pro. People that listen to this show, I should stop saying it, know I'm a big fan of the iPad Pro. I know you have your thoughts on it. I felt that it was, to me The star of the show from a standpoint of I know that the Surface Pro has a hybrid device that has a desktop os and a tablet os can do more. But what I really liked, and maybe it feels like it's a year too late. But what I really loved about the iPad Pro it feels like its own thing. The way that you're interacting with it. You can't do that with the service although the service can technically do more in terms of how they really made it a beast of its own. And I don't know if they should call this iOS 10 on the iPad. I feel like it should be called it's own thing and I do applaud them for that. But I think it's a little late. The iPad Pro getting an update for a while, and iOS being updated for the iPad. So I think a lot of those updates, when I wrote a preview wish list piece, a lot of those got net. The dock, the file system, the added modes for presentation, I think they're great. I like the fact that it's gonna be more pencil based where you can instantly take notes. Do handwriting search, [UNKNOWN] has all the great moves, and looking at the 10.5, it's definitely a nice screen enhancement. My only question is, if you have a 9.7 inch iPad Pro, I don't think you would need to upgrade. Mm-hm. Because it's a modest screen game, you are getting processor, but who knows. I mean, it's not It's not clear, right now it's not clear if IOS11 will make it great compared to the 9.7 or the previous generation iPad pro the 12.9 from late 2015 maybe that one is great you get that on sale. So I don't know that is a thought would the OS make a great. Would you want the new one no matter what? So we have to kinda measure that out. But I think it's great. I'm disappointed by the fact that it still feels a little too much like iOS for iPhone. Mm-hm. I agree. It needs to be its own thing. I think they should just keep moving away. Mm-hm. Get away from the grid of apps, be comfortable making a bold move because I don't think it's gonna be that crazy a change. People will get used to it at this point, and it will help present more things on screen, you have a lot of screen space. Plus, accessories. They did not announce new accessories for this. So that's the first thing that shocked me, not only that right? So I preordered this so I have an original iPad Pro, I was always mad and jealous about the true tone screen. I love this whole 120. Hertz refresh rate, and the fact that the pencil's gonna work better. Much to your point earlier about will someone upgrade? I think if you're someone that really does use the pencil artistically, or how you use your iPad Pro today, you should, if you're thinking about upgrading, I think it's worth it. But if you're just using your iPad like you're using the iPad the same way you did Three years ago, four years ago. I don't know if it's, I don't think it's worth upgrading. It's it's a slight. Right, yeah I think a lot of it, yeah. So, but to your point about accessories, so I buy this iPad Pro, and I'm like what are these new cool, what are the cool things I can get? And I don't know if you saw this, but they're selling a freaking case, like a leather case for the pencil. Just a sleeve specifically for the pencil- Pencil sleeve, yeah. Yeah, just a cover for the pencil for 29 bucks. And I'm like wait, okay, let me look out and see what else they have. Now they have a full leather sleeve that has a little slot for you to put your pencil in, it's 149, I'm like but then it completely exposes the iPad, when you need to take it out. Like, I'm sorry, I kinda need to have it protected on the backside. Which was then weird to me because they completely got rid of that silicon rear case for the iPad. They don't have any of them online. They have 3rd party ones but not an Apple one And that's all. Really? Yeah so you know that hard shell kind of Apple branded silicone, that's not available for the 12.9 and when you search for it, it's just not there. Is this the one here? If you go to store.apple.com and then they'll be like. Yeah I've used the silicon kit, back and it's very useful. Yeah it just standard, right? Yeah. But then what about the smart connector man? What is, are they completely ignoring the fact that they put that on the iPad? Let's talk about the smart connector because I was asking Apple about this and it's the same technology in the smart connector as the last one. You would have heard about it if it was upgrade. Of course. Right now the smart connector allows two things. Keyboards. And charged docks like to allow charge through it. And Apple and Logitech that are even making anything. Logitech is kind of the third party partner for it. Or I don't know how it's been arranged but there are no other companies and I'm sure more have been wanting to. I would think. There are no other accessories out there that I've seen, and it's super limited, and what else can it do? You should be able to drive the trackpad. Which I would love to see a track pad. I'd love that. Whether or not Apple sees a need, it's like, of course, you could have certain apps support it, and you could and it, and that would be worth it for people. Or a dock that would do other things, I don't know, just it is strange. Like the whole idea of that was meant to be a modularity. And there is very little in terms of options, and Apple's own smart case, the keyboard cover is the same. It's okay. I like Logitech's better. Mm-hm. It's much more lap friendly. It's backlit. It types better, and so I'm surprised that Apple didn't upgrade their keyboard. And take a chance at doing something a little new, maybe add back lighting at least, or maybe it's not powerful enough, but it is Logitech has back lighting of course it's powerful enough. Yeah you could've made it back lit, some cool glowing keys whatever. It's just so strange to me that you had this new product, and this big design, and accessories were not part of it. That transform the iPod, and that like the one remaining thing that prevents me from using it as a laptop, real laptop replacement. That in certain software things, but you know that's usually that's usually the thing that's holds me back. yeah. I bought the smart keyboard for the iPod proto point nine inch, originally. But I returned it literally maybe two days later because I hated how it felt. It doesn't even feel good. When you compare the Apple branded keyboard to, let's say, the Microsoft Surface keyboard, it's not even close. The way it just feels, the feedback, the push. And so You know, I did like the Logitech one, but, you know, it's a little thicker for me. I want them to give me a thin-feeling, sleeve-type, nice responsive keyboard, but that appears to be too hard for them. [LAUGH] You know? Why could they not have done the 12 inch... They developed the super small butterfly keyboard mechanism for the back pros. Yup. And 12 inch Macbook. You can't put that on a case and offer that, it's so strange to me. Like that's what Microsoft did, they should have had two variations at least, the soft one and a hard one That's the minimum you could do. And then the maximum is to rethink some of this stuff and think about a new solution. When is that gonna happen? It's such a slow, I mean, the piece I wrote about it You know, it was exactly that, that I felt like this is a gradual evolution. And it seems like we're just gonna have to, that's the way it's going to be. But it's super frustrating because as much as I like where the software's going, it reminds me of iOS 9, they had good updates for the iPad I've always felt for a while now, especially after Apple put all their apples in the basket for the Apple Watch, does it feel like Apple is spread too thin because they're doing just too many things now? That they've lost some of the focus to Bring some of that level polisher. You used to feel like, hey this is a solution they've got all this, they are focusing on this we see this year after year. But to your point, it's like okay IOS 11 finally gets the new tweet. It's like a two year cycle across the board of a lot of their things now. Yeah and right before the event I remember the one thing I got to say is I was looking for synthesis for the keynote. And I don't think we had that at the keynote. There was no grand unified theory of Apple. And maybe they feel there can't really be one But yeah, I agree, that whole style of presentation which was we've got six things to talk about. So let's go, we gotta hurry, we gotta hurry. It felt like we were already rushing and to keep up with all the points. As opposed to breathing and saying what is the one thing we wanna take away, what is the one Idea, and it sounds like Apple has got a lot of work in a lot of different areas they're trying to accomplish while pushing into a Lot of areas that are gonna matter in the future, AR, VR, still wearable tech and health. Some of them are very interesting and AI and machine learning. But it is all over the place, it feels like, when you hear about it. And you wonder, the classic thing is for instance, when you're home with your products. Okay, Siri works one way on my iPhone, it works another way on my Apple TV, it works another way on the watch. The iPhone, I have some apps that take advantage of 3D touch. Some apps that take advantage of Siri. Some apps that iMessage. You don't know which are gonna be which and there's still such a wide open area, and I remember app developers in the past were feeling like they really had to make choices between do I support this, do I support this? Because you can't do them all. I think Apple's offering so many options to explore, that I wonder about what's going to happen, because you know, do you support Apple Watch? Do you support this part of Apple Watch? Do you support this part of iPad? It's kind of never-ending, and it doesn't feel like there's a clear hierarchy If they really don't have anything to show off or to tell a story. Like I think about, yeah it may not be as sexy, but at Google's I/O they told the story of what they were doing with AI, how they were building it, what improvements they've done from year A to B or whatever. But they told us a story and I, this WWDC First thing as we were watching, I'm like, this feels really rushed. There is no story telling, to get us, maybe, at least informed. And also a little more invested in, okay, this is why they're doing it. There's none of that, it's just, iOS has so many features that they didn't talk about that I would have thought might have been interesting. But because they were so jam packed Do they really know where they're going? And because it doesn't seem like to us that they're telling us that other than product, product, product, product, WWDC. And at the same time, I know there's workshops at WWDC. I didn't even feel like this keynote was even really truly catered to the developers that much. You know, a little bit of showing the AR kit. But we've seen other demos where they've gotten a little nitty-gritty because it's a developers conference. Developers get no access to what they're doing with Siri or with the HomePod. I just think that even hearing you and I talk about it, they're in a lot of different directions. They haven't set some sort of clear path that we can all be like, okay we're on board with this. A fair amount. [LAUGH] Especially Siri and then he did the Siri Gods punishment. [LAUGH] Well that's Cortana punishment. You're saying after you spoke it cut off. Yeah. So you didn't even hear me talk at all? It was like dropping the mic. You just went boom Well, you know what? Well, ultimately I just said everything about their keynote felt rushed, they didn't give us any type of story telling, and that, you know Google explains their AI, how they're evolving it, what's happened before, why they're doing this, and we're not getting any of that, it was like product, product, product, and it's We know we want to see a direction of what they're thinking and they're not telling us that. I think also, it's an inevitable effect of, for a while now, a couple of years, they had not been having products at the developer conference. They would say, okay, we're not going to crowd this developer conference with products. We're going to focus on software. This year they introduced a ton of products. There was literally how many, eight or whatever. There were the Macs, the iMac Pro, the iPad, HomePod. That's like a whole product event. Yeah. So, when you do that in a two-hour span, then yeah, you're gonna have less time. To talk about software and strategy. I think that was the biggest reason why it felt so rushed. Yeah, so we could talk about this for hors. I think that we wanna just get to some of the phone calls and then we'll just wrap things up. Are you good with that Scott? Yeah. Okay, let's see where we're at with the Apple [INAUDIBLE] nation and again For all of you listening to Extra Crunchy, you can always call us at 1-800-616-2638 and that is the number to get yourself on the show. And yeah, how are we doing with voice mails Mr Beachem? Yeah, we got a lot of good calls, and we got some positives about WDC, and we got some negatives about WDC. Very good. We're gonna play both. And see what everyone had to say. Here we go. All right. [BLANK_AUDIO] Hey guys. It's Ryan from Sacramento. I have to say that yesterday's developer's conference was one of the best that we've seen in awhile, and that's exciting. My question today is about the smart speaker that we saw. I, like many other people, already have the Amazon Echo. I have the Dot. And being in the Apple Ecosystem I'm actually gonna want to buy this new speaker because I can play my iTunes. I can use iMessaging, all the stuff that I can't do with Alexa, but I also don't wanna lose the smart assistant, Alexa, because it seems to be better than Siri. So my question is will I be able to pair these speakers together somehow? I know that Echo Dot Compare wirelessly with other speakers, so I want to get the smartest system, Alexa, but still be able to play my music at a better sound quality, and use iMessage, will I be able to do this? It's like having two girlfriends, one's sexier, one sounds better. The other one's smarter and has a better personality and I'm just trying to get them in bed together. You know what I mean, Brian? Love the show. Can't wait to hear what you guys think. Go Warriors! [LAUGH] As if I have experience in that area. [LAUGH] [LAUGH] Scott what do you think I mean yeah sure isn't it always the dream for us to have the best of both worlds from the two top devices that we love? I feel like it's always a dream for us. I wanna climb into bed with all the smart speakers at once. We can arrange that, I mean we can do a photo shoot, it could be awkward, but it could be amazing at the same time. I don't think that you can count on the Echo Ecosystem syncing and working with this Smart Speaker. I don't think there's any way. That's not part of the game plan, but I do think there's a chance. It's a question that all of these devices do have, is that we're gonna start maybe having more than one of them in our home. How do you deal with that? Mm-hm. Can you set up some to do some things and some to do others? Do these companies start acknowledging that? It's different then when you have a phone and you pick one phone. There priced to that you could easily have multiple devices in your home. And it's like all of these company don't really wanna think about that, but they're gonna have to. And I think it would be really smart to come up with a solution that acknowledges that. You know, the one company that's trying to do this, I don't know if you recall Andy Rubin, he released The Essential Phone, which is kind of their answer to their phones, but he also announced The Essential Home, which is kind of, again, their smart speaker home assistant. They didn't show it off, it's only in renders, but their goal or really their dream He said like, we want this to be platform agnostic. We want it to be able to run Seri. We want it to run Alexa. We want it to run Google's assistant. But when you say that out loud, and you realize what, you have to make deals with these three groups in order to run their assistants on your hardware It just doesn't seem realistic how in the history of time for these companies who have built these platforms that to be an ecosystem doesn't necessarily play well with others. I just don't see it. It's not that I'm not optimistic but i just don't see something like that happening. Well yeah it's interesting I got to talk with essential s president a little bit [UNKNOWN]. Yeah exactly that the strategy that they're laying out is they wanna go it's like central wants to be the Android of smart home and accessories. But these are gonna be open source but then they acknowledge that not everyone's gonna play nicely with them. I do think That there's a chance that two of the three will play nicely. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because Alexa is actually really open. Alexa generally plays nicely with everyone. So I think that will probably be fine. And considering Andy Ruben's relationship and they're using an Android phone. I would think that they're gonna develop someway to folding Google assistant. Mm-hm. But then it's really, it's Siri as the outlier and Apple. They have someone to probably referring to, I mean, I also feel like the idea that they were pitching was like, they kept calling it choreographing the home. Which maybe sounds like a way to dance around that you know cuz How about some spirit fingers? [LAUGH]. Can you really fold them in? [LAUGH]. Yeah or is it like a logic deck harmony? Are you developing scripts that begin to learn how to deal with handing off? Things to other services that aren't really integrated. I don't know if that's the right analogy, but I kind of feel like that might be what they're trying to do. But they're also trying to become another player in the game, like they're gonna have their own assistant and they're gonna wanna be like the one that you choose, so it's a lot of things. It is. We just want to throw in a guitar riff just to give you some of that- I know, autoplay. Autoplay, which will be addressed by macOS High Sierra. [LAUGH] All right, to answer the question to our caller I mean, you can hold both of them in your arms in the bed at the same time, but we don't expect, I highly don't expect Apple to be working with being able to talk to those anytime soon like that. It's just not in Apple's DNA. We've gotta try to make a video where we put them next to each other and try to get them to talk to each other, somehow. Trigger their words so that they say things that trigger the other one. It'll be amazing. [LAUGH] I'm gonna try to figure that out. I'll let you handle that beach. [LAUGH] I'm gonna put the next call, here we go. Hey Bryan, my name is Johnny from Washington, DC. I love the show. I'm actually a past contestant winner, so Thanks for the awesome gift on that. Whoo. So WWDC was this week and I'm a little confused as to what Apple has created that's innovative because from what I see There's actually nothing new that's being presented. For example, the new app store. No one told them to create a new app store. That's not innovation. [LAUGH] With the Apple Pay, they created a Venmo app. I don't understand what's so different about that. I mean, it's basically the same thing as Venmo. Let's see Safari will block [UNKNOWN] play videos, that should've been done from the very beginning, that is a security patch not an innovation. I don't understand what Apple has shown this year to be innovative at. Quite frankly, in my opinion, this is probably one of Apple's worst WWDCs yet. The only thing that, in my opinion, might have some innovation to it is the new live photo features. The software capability To create like, for example, the seamless loop and some of the other effects. Those definitely took much effort from a [UNKNOWN] software standpoint. So in that aspect, yes I do agree they did probably have some innovations, put in some good money investing into that. But everything else There's nothing impressive so I honestly if this is what the new iOS is bringing I'm a little scared as to what the new iPhone is gonna look like. I hope that they seriously step up their game, this is Apple's landmark iPhone yet so they need to bring something that is going to outshine and out pace. This past WWDC. Thanks for listening out. That was long, he was letting it all go on us, just letting it all roll but that's okay. Look we'll see what happens, that's the thing. To me it's also kind of weird that. We're giving Apple the benefit of the doubt to say like, hey, maybe they'll show us something more with Siri at the iPhone event. Which they might, but really, they should have done it at WWDC. So I'm just gonna wait until then, but man, if we don't hear about How it's changed or evolved or really is at least leveled up to a point where it can at least hold it's ground in certain ways. Or maybe do unique things. It just feels like Siri is the step-child that we're just going keep on beating up on when everyone else is doing big things. [BLANK_AUDIO] This guy drop off again? No, I'm here. I'm just quietly listening. I think they've done a few things that were innovative that are useful. I think AR Kit is actually really useful. I think developers are already excited about that, because I don't know if there are that many toolkits that people can jump in right now and really develop AR apps. With the way that I think Apple is enabling it.>>Yeah>> But I think that was nice I don't think there's that much more. And that brings up the point. I think innovation of i. Of the OS was surprisingly not there. Except for iPad, I agree, I was very surprised that iOS11, for the big supposed 10th anniversary thing that we think is going to happen with the iPhone. And maybe a huge iPhone revamp in the fall. Well, this didn't really seem, this did not Suggest that. Yeah, yeah. Even, like you said, even the suggestion of it, right? Again, we'll see maybe because of specific hardware features they'll show us more. But the basic suggestion of it being a big new revamp. Even, I'm not the type of person that needs to ask for a complete facelift. But if it is this 10th anniversary phone, you want it to feel like [SOUND], that's it. But we didn't get any of that. No. All right, next call. All right. We've got two more. Hey guys. This is Glare in West Hollywood. You are able to listen to YouTube with your browser and phone closed on your phone. It's called YouTube Red, you have to pay $10, you guys probably have both got free for a month or three months and just forget that was what it is and why is it that YouTube can play it faster on the computer but you aren't allowed to change the speed on the phone or on the iPad? Thanks. The more you know. Yeah, I'm not gonna pay [CROSSTALK]. I'm not gonna pay. Would you pay ten dollars, Scott, to just so you can hear the audio in the background on your YouTube videos? With your phone turned off or the screen off? So I tried out YouTube Red as a trial and now I'm paying for it. So the answer is yes but accidentially.>> [LAUGH] So what's the content on YouTube is it just because you like not getting ads and it just helps your experience.>> I got a free trial for YouTube Red and I tried it out and I was curious. But I'm not really into Unique YouTube content. And ads I can deal with on YouTube I'm not tremendously bothered. It was really this thing I wanted to try but no I would not wanna add that as yet another thing I'm paying for. Are you personally paying for an Apple Music subscription? I tried the trial but I never decided to get on board. I heard there was a lot of really flack about the Planet of the Apps show that just released on Apple Music. They're just saying it's a really drab attempt at a Shark Tank without being anywhere nearly remotely as interesting. [LAUGH] So, I'm paying for Apple Music, and now I'm also paying for, basically I need to stop paying for all these music [UNKNOWN]. [LAUGH] I I'm also paying for Spotify, a lot of it is to have things to test on different devices. Exactly. To do, but I've got to pick one. The problem now is Apple Music, I am worried about how it has glommed into my existing Cloud Music Library. I know people have problems in the past when you deactivate it it might Shred part of it. Get rid of some of your music, right? Yes. You might ruin some of your own library somehow. Like associate those with the cloud That's why I've always been paranoid, that's why I've never wanted to do it after I had a bad experience with iTunes match back in the day. That's scary, yeah. Mine's all glommed and I don't know where my original music library is, it's on some server I haven't plugged in for awhile so its all like in the cloud.i fell some parasitic, you know its got some symbiotic relationship laughing I feel like I dont know what to do with this. I've walked down a road that I feel like I should just try and pull it out and then I think its going to pull the brain stem out of my music collection. And then I've got to start all over and I'll cry. Well you kind of have to do that right because you've already invested in it, it's like okay I can't go back, where do I go from here/ I can't go back but I can't go [UNKNOWN] forward. Your in the tweeter spot. Yeah and by the way why aren't they addressing that more. I would like Apple to talk more about that weird. Relationship with music which never I feel like we deal with but they haven't tried upgrading and dealing with. And that makes me think I'm not a huge fan of the Apple Music app at all in terms of its layout. And to address what that guy said about or maybe it was before that about the app store. I do not like the new app store design. I was turned off by it immediately it's You can't, what the first thing you look at is a single icon of a single app now? It's less discovery and. Totally. they suggested their stories and there will be articles and I don't really need that at all. Yeah I need ways to compare collections and You want to look at charts and it just seems way too presumptively curating. Yep. Like this is the one app you need today? I don't need apps everyday. I'm not, it's not a daily, I'm not going to look there everyday for today's app fix. Well, you know how you were talking about, I don't really like the aesthetic of the Apple music app? It really feels and looks like that they're trying to get that aesthetic across the board. Not only in the app store but even the messages app kinda has a little bit of Apple Music aesthetic in iOS 11. It's kind of interesting some of the decisions that they're taking and making but I'm completely I'm not even a personally a developer just as a Consumer who wants to discover more content, I hate how the new app store looks like. And as a developer, you've got to hate that too. I think it's gonna be painful. And I really don't get the daily thing. The Today View. Because with music, it makes sense. If you're a music subscriber, you want new things everyday to have in your ears. That you're paying for all this free content, well you're paying for it but you get to try it all. You don't get to try all apps. It's not like you have a key to every app in the kingdom. And so, daily discovery of apps just seems like a bizarre Use case that they would focus on. Yeah maybe this is what the show planet of the apps is about, for discovering new apps. That's their answer to redesigning the app store. > >What app are you using today? Like I don't wake up every morning going time to Trying to, Exactly it's all about the buzz of what your here. All right, we have one more, there's one more. Yeah there's one more. Lets get to it. Hey Brian, hey Stephen really great show, great job you both are doing. This is Freed Tom Young, I'm calling from Fremont, California so usually I Tend to watch your show live, but if not, I watch it late at night, so thanks for the show and good informative stuff. Now, coming onto the question, you know there's been a lot of talk about Apple offering its own video streaming service. Similar to, let's say, Netflix, Hulu and all that, with their live TV. You know, it's a funny thing that the Apple TV came out in September 2015 and it's been two years almost, and still they haven't given any service. What's up with that? I mean, I just wanted to kind of Understand the thoughts going behind. Why is that people like AT&T, DirecTV Now, Sling TV, Playstation Vue, Hulu Live TV, and there's so many subscription services now, everyone's doing it. What is Apple up to? Something Why is it that they're lagging behind? Just wanted to know your thoughts and have a good discussion on this. Thanks, bye. Yes, thanks so much for the call. Hey Brian, hey Steve. Sorry. Thanks so much for the call. We've talked about this a bunch on our show earlier, in past episodes, of just how there were many reports about how Apple, who thinks they're still Apple, walked in the room with executives from The content providers, the network, the cable operators. And they want their own terms, they do have a large user install base, but the prices that they were asking or what they wanted, right? They want it their way. They don't wanna take a group of maybe 20 or 30 channels. They want maybe ten of the best channels. They wanna control all the terms and it's not gonna happen that way. And we've complained about it for, I feel like I've complained about it for at least over a year and a half. Yeah we've been talking about this for a long time. Just the fact that they couldn't get it done. Every six months that went by you saw a new player enter into the market to have their own service. And now even if you look at the Apple TV interface they have this watch app Or the TV app, I can't remember what they called it. I remember it was confusing to me, but they have this app that now kind of curates the streaming services. And those of the ones that are partners are kind of all integrated into this single app where you can watch TV shows, but it doesn't include things like Netflix or Amazon video. It's just the partners that they have It was almost to me a cop out of the fact that they were not going to do a TV service. I don't expect that we see one from them now. Maybe they'll surprise us, but there are no indications that they've gone back to the table to even do anything like this. And to me, it's a little bit of the reason why we don't see it today is kind of more like Apple's Hubris. Gets in the way when it has to deal with other companies. And it's kind of in their DNA, unfortunately. Scott, do you have any take on that? Yeah, they did not address Apple TV much at all at this. And I feel like that was something that we expected. It was like the Amazon announcement was the main thing. And then they kinda wrapped it up and moved on. Yeah, how was that? [LAUGH] Yeah, and it's like okay, we knew that would happen. But I agree, like I used to use, I still use FanTV, or have used, you know that was my discovery app, and I always felt like their TV app was trying to be like that to go cross platform, and it doesn't even hook in everything the way that I'd still like it too. And then I totally agree, if they're not going to be making their own TV streaming package, They should be integrating other people's TV streaming packages in Apple TV. In a way that allows you to pick one and bring it to the forefront. You should be able to pick Sling or something else and make it your instant on TV. And build an interface around that. It's very strange. I feel like I don't really understand. Where that's going and they're not really talking about app development much. I feel like you're not hearing anymore about other types of apps. For the TV platform. Which is weird because yeah it's a pretty powerful box and why is nothing happening? Yeah again when we talk about are they confused, are they spread too thin? I don't know where the focus is on that product either. Everyone's like, just give me a 4K Apple TV. Well look, that's the most basic thing that they can do. That's just easy for them to do. But then when we're talking about how is the platform evolving. What are they doing with the TV service? Look, I have a Playstation Vue. I love it. But that's what I use as my TV streaming service. I don't know if there's ever gonna be a reason for me to really switch over to an Apple one. But, so many people are now invested in these other TV streaming services. If they even get back in there, what are they going to do. And then like you mentioned, the whole app development. WWDC, they spent three, two minutes on just saying Amazon is coming to Apple TV and that was all, that was literally it That's crazy. And they haven't tried. They're certainly not keeping up with what everybody else is doing, and they're definitely not going to the next level with where it could be. I do think for a brief time, when the revamped Apple TV came out It was introducing a few new ideas, like the ability to back up and hear what somebody said. Mm-hm, mm-hm. Or, a couple of other functions like that. But now, what is it doing to advance and rethink the TV? It's not. Yeah. It's not! That's just the bottom line. It's not! So, you know what? Before we leave, Scott, do you have, maybe. I don't wanna put a number on it. But what was your overall feeling about WWDC as a whole? Thumbs up? Thumbs middle? Thumbs down? Where do you stand with all of that? I am more thumbs up Yeah me to .>>because I think that there are many year we kept saying why are there no new products. [LAUGH] They did a lot in the show but I am just scepticism about where all these things are going to go and how big any one of them is going to be like. They did have their home speaker. We just don't know anything more about it. [LAUGH] They dipped into AR and VR big time. But we just don't know how transformative either one will be for them. And they updated the iPad. There's all these areas we've been talking about will they do it So in that sense a lot of bases were covered but the reason why I'm feeling, it's just like are you feeling it? As you're watching it you know when something resonates with you and you go that's awesome and there weren't really many moments like that. And so that's the part where you go well was it just going too fast or just and you wonder if it was a bigger thing why wouldn't they emphasize it more? So I just feel like you don't step away having been inspired in a lot of different directions. And that's a big part of where a developer comfort should be too. Cuz you're talking to developers, you're meant to be inspiring Developers, this is a pitch. You're saying it's tools but it's also a pitch. And I think that there wasn't enough of that big bold inspirational push. All right my voice just cracked did you hear that? That means it's time for the podcast to end. Holy cow I hope people still listen to this all the way through but they completely ignored that fact. All right Scott thanks. [LAUGH] Dude. I'm surprised my voice is shot. [LAUGH] You're the one that flew in on an red eye and just got home back on the east coast and I'm the one whose voice is cracking. I may or may not just be wearing boxer shorts. [LAUGH] You can keep the camera tilted up I really appreciate it. No no, but San Jose was fun. I got to have delicious pho thanks to a from [UNKNOWN] Exactly, it was nice to be there, I was exhausted, maybe that's why my voice didn't fall apart. [LAUGH] Well Scott thanks so much for everything, we love it when you come back in right after these big keynotes, we know that you're a busy guy, so thank you for all your work and your insight, we appreciate it okay? Hey, thank you guys. Thanks for having me on. All right, so that's gonna wrap it up for this week's show. Again, you guys and gals can always call us for the Apple Byte Extra Crunchy, 180-616-2638. I know we didn't get to hear Steven's smooth voice that much today. It's all good. All good in the hood? I was happy to just sit back and listen to you guys. [LAUGH] All right. That's going to do it for this week. We'll see you guys next time. Be safe, peace. [MUSIC]