Tech Culture: Reporters' Roundtable Ep. 113: Couch Potato 2.0
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Tech Culture: Reporters' Roundtable Ep. 113: Couch Potato 2.036:59 /
Not content to feed you just one screen of entertainment, content and app developers are working on apps that make your tablet or smartphone a companion screen to the main event. Join our discussion on the rise of the "Second Screen."
Hi everyone. To reporters' roundtable -- -- in San Francisco this is are we beach on a single to top each time and you know next week what's happening on March 7. Apple is announcing everybody expects. The iPad three as we think's gonna happen. Now why is this portable but not all that portable form factor working out so well what is that about a machine that is best use. On the couch. One growing case. Use case for tablets is the second screen. It seems we are just satisfied anymore with watching TV like we used it or just playing a game now we need a second screen to keep us engaged. Businesses are growing up around the whole idea of the second screen. And programmers ants are starting program respect for -- as I -- content programmers content developers are starting to take this. Ancillary auxiliary screen market seriously and that's what we're talking about today that's right it's couch potato version two. Such talk about this -- that to people who are really expert in this category. On my left Jeremy Tillman who is the chief product officer at digit Jeremy thanks to eminent threat. And across to me only to -- -- who's that told you I would stumble over the name ansari. Only chance who's the chief creative officer over at MX they make second screen apps thanks permanent. All right so listen to -- when I was growing up the second screen was the Swanson Salisbury steak dinner. That was it what is -- wide of people want need this or they just being. -- that's the second screen concept. Popular for a sentence personalizing a funny phenomenon when we started I'm making second screen -- realized pretty -- you know we could've done this. As soon as the laptop's camera it's just nobody really thought about it may be these machines were -- -- people were starting to. Have their laptops open in their arm and Europe you know look at I'm DB and and -- at the same time I think there -- -- -- talked about the form factor. It just had to get maybe that little bit smaller -- to be like the one and thing you can throw down like a magazine -- etc. And I think what happened at the same time -- said with the rise of social networks we see that the two teenaged generation is just basically not collecting -- and -- and buying dvds are. Albums or cities that -- -- and and they wanna do that all the time so did the attention split is really where this market started being interest in -- -- restaurants. But people realize what we eyeballs are going away from just the TV screen and we probably want to be -- all these screens. People talk a lot about about with. Younger younger generation about the always on generation that people are always plug in and engage is that what this is about -- -- person rather I think -- -- is being made is that. There was already stats that people were using a second screen auction to be so numbers -- that we are seeing in two years ago was in the forty to 60% TV watching. -- with a second screen in the hands and it could have been a laptop. But it it's really about those of the phones and tablets -- the interest thing that's going on is this kind of push pull -- not a phenomenon is that marketers here. Hey you know six agreement TV watching habits of the second screen and you know people are as you -- young people are doing all this. And then. What's happened is that's -- around saying. Oh they must be using the second screens about television all the time right now they've got the big thing is a lot of time -- words with friends or its Angry Birds or its texting with a -- about plans are doing tomorrow. So there's tons of opportunity governor -- second screen for TB is huge. But I think we I think it's also being a little bit -- shove down people's throats right now you've got to do you guys do this and I think. Were regularly away from premiere where that happy medium -- -- -- up. Yeah I account for the semi thought about analogies and before you know like maybe going back to Friendster and MySpace to think about why did they not working on this and FaceBook and Twitter take everything -- storm. Him maybe were and its related -- service right now -- -- -- like we have this thing people have a demands. What can we do on it but the experience hasn't really can't figure out now once again I do wanna get into -- one of make everybody aware of as we go on here -- Only your company MX builds actual second stream content apps yes we -- and Jeremy your company digit does. Directories and remotes. Well we rode the TV guide and remote control application -- so different approaches to making use of -- Smart. Big screen whether it's -- a a phone or tablet while you're plopped on the couch watching your what you're QDR because -- odds are complementary let me to only run one -- at a time -- -- -- and I don't think anybody is at odds are the ones that are at. TV. So -- -- this company makes an app -- for a given show its present 30 Rock. That 30 Rock Apple might be at odds with a company like -- -- really trying to use did you use their kind of generic second screen -- at the same time -- We're gonna see some issues there are pursuing our focus is really all about up until the -- -- someone watching TV and at that point we're you know we think these -- might be off. Again whether -- -- friends or or the aforementioned fictitious 30 Rock cap and how we don't really know what people want to do after that point. Ya know I think that's word and that's where we did. Similar in terms of we're trying to figure the second screen but very different from we have focused on rich media experiences for -- of the user experience when interacting with the content from around shall we -- building. Content complementary to the show that you're watching. And to social integration to check in -- talking with friends. Really was a second thought for us we Purcell tried to find an engagement the right amount of I'm interest what's the first -- -- a second screen. And the interesting thing that we found is that when we do baton the second screen turns and the first. I'm going that's -- so -- -- so people are spending millions of dollars per episode. And in and -- -- -- -- have since been happening gives some a company maybe yours. I don't know making this up to 2000 dollars to build an app. And it turns out the people watching that -- more than the hugely expensive shuttle load. It happened when we started we are bogus and technology that can control it -- to -- ray disc from the second screen happen so all of a sudden. And that's finders and making some some of -- remote content to. All of a sudden that sickens me that turns into the remote control for you for your movie means you can go as the -- school was bad and you tap on it and then -- disc jumps forward to that seen. And all of a sudden you adage of sent you -- edit your own version of film by interacting with the second screen. Which we are not in the TV space so -- as they are different so we can control the placement of from digital. -- on Blu-ray so is this is this more important this whole console the we're talking about is a more important for. Live appointment viewing or for. What you're talking about where you pop the disk in or -- or replace street. Yes and yes I -- in I think. They live -- -- kind of falls for them enough where the terms of appointment T was the stuff you -- live it's -- five categories it's reality TV events. Like the Oscars. And sports news and then big episode -- season finale of entourage Libya would be an appointment -- is a real wants to watch it or this is a rare game -- things like that that's appointment TV. There's big that that's the burgeoning social TV side of things are people maybe are checking in or tweeting or doing something -- -- -- happening. And this -- -- others catch up TV which is everything else so. If you're watching last week's episode of 30 Rock on your DVR you -- early -- -- tweeting about because you're you know seven days behind. So having the social TV side of things is very very appointment driven. That's with the chickens come in the play either the given tweets and hash tags etc. and I think that's that's there where I don't think anybody has room knows where it's -- ago. I'm -- personals suspicion that would you know. -- it's very hard to build an entire platform around something that only accounts for about 40% of TV watching that's that's kind of my beef with social TV. -- I think the which you call -- the -- a second watching touch up to catch the ketchup TV is exactly where what we -- experimenting with comes into play because we also have to look at. You start something a -- DVR or or Hulu stream of what what is it -- interest and has an interest in -- view all the tweets that happen while that was -- probably not so much it would be interesting to say if you say 30 Rock. What's that crazies -- stars and stripes underwear that -- this rumor and or cannot buy that's right that's. Maybe -- sounds like the marketers both the offense that it sounds like a total fantasy SX I'm watching TV -- -- -- product placement and then I'm wanna buy the things like. Maybe I'm old but if I'm watching a highly produced -- lovingly crafted. -- -- even commercially craft but doesn't matter it's crafted from its time coded to the nano second. I wanna watch that show. But I mean it -- your area I think I think this is that it the biggest -- is that there's. There is this energy right now toward distracting people from the shows are watching and -- -- around I think there -- a lot of times the complementary apps make a lot of sense I think a lot of stuff. Those companies doing makes a lot of sense for for a lot of the content I think. It's -- it's got to be that to the they came to the pendulum with setting a one and that can't be we expect to do lots of interactivity and we've heard. We've heard from marketers since the ninety's about being able to watch to by Jennifer Aniston sweaters right in that thing is if we're gonna sell them that sweater and no one's done it the results are really want it but it sounds great in the white Paper so. -- -- I not a belief and on the eve by the thing you're watching I do -- the I do the thing to be. Who is that character I've seen him in the movie before what what you what's going on here recognize that quote sounds familiar where's that from adding that aspect of you know kind of real time quick research thing is where some of these apps could be a lot of fun. In fact I completely agree and I I didn't mean that that buying off the television and export for don't know it's good that you -- we need something to disagree with. -- know that digital overlay to Hollywood has been its its Final Fantasy and you know who's going to be who's gonna be allowed to do that right if not the continents themselves. -- what I'm interested in what a fascinating about is to find the right mix to find the right amount of stuff that you can do on your tablet for example were experimenting with a save for later function. To you you have content coming across the second screen device and you see something of interest and you shouldn't you know pick this up and start digging around -- should just be able to hit the easy. Right Wellington and and -- a case and that later but go back and researched that or even have a. Archive -- of one of your apps can just at the end of you can say. You know who were all the guest stars -- with a great quotes here what was that underwear you know all the things is just there for you right but that's me -- the sensing controller really Ugly Betty Jerry commercial break pull -- -- you know the little things you've been missing etc. and I think I think there's tons of upper ceiling had an outside. And there and -- opponent and in that space I think its interest -- -- the metadata companies that the companies that I'm not trying to figure out. How to -- that information -- time -- sonic who was on screen right now. By the content recognition -- and so father who recognized -- its more expensive that's right pit. Somebody -- some look at it know that he's on screen and at that moment in time that I can't be too far away from us. Right as far awareness there of the electrical engineer -- -- -- an open and don't go ahead and get it -- But now you -- your company does. The second screen content and you do a bunch of of children's programming and -- mistaken. While we are moving into that's just starting an initiative with the National Academy of Sciences and looks into how we can leverage the fact that. I'm children to middle school to high school age children are constantly been -- living on their mobile devices any moment and not in his classroom. So how can be bridged that gap and -- can be leveraged their excitement about Entertainment Properties like movies and games. Into educational -- it district's naming kids watch the same show over and over and over again and that site it's the answer and -- try to get into his get that is. How different types of programming. Lend themselves to an ancillary killer app sports obviously true that its real time and if you're a sports fan I mean we already. Sports fans news viewers are already -- -- finance and users are already getting essentials that essentially set featuring content. But all that crawls all over the screen and then your barrage with information. One out off look that right -- I mean that's a really good -- is that one of the biggest mistakes made in TV is or specially in new TV -- -- -- at stardom. Blanketing TV -- is one thing like. And like all T view options and because it's just so not. The -- every genre is different when I want to commonly is very different launch one hour drama very different than sports. Another addition be watching televised news anymore that's just means that should only be a second screen it's just. Terrible but views expressed -- my guest and express those of our parent company CBS -- chairman of the answer and it modernism in Europe I'll but I think. That's the thing as weather like -- and always -- is -- a bunch of other startups and those of the focusing on very specific types of content so. I've seen some second screen apps or -- sports that are -- because. We all other eruption of gaming you want to find out like what was this person's. Streaker of these are -- average whatever it is forever -- sport. On and the biggest mistake annually by -- continuing in the spaces stopping you that all TB is equal because it's very much dot. And a finger to the point I think -- tweet statistics during the academy -- certain tasks and stuff gets a little boring and screen the tweets go up. The halftime shows almost no tweeting -- let's talk about that so there -- two. -- -- mention that there -- appointment viewing there's two kinds. Rather there are several kinds but there -- two big events recently that had a lot of second screen potential the Academy -- -- -- -- the grammys. Up and then of the suitable. What you did you guys experience any of those with -- seconds being handled and what -- -- like and where where the opportunities there. Now and there's this it's been. There's a lot of code blogs have been indexing this content recently -- becoming -- bluefin labs has tons of stops on the I can take onscreen. -- the more social what do people treating -- shows things like that. Interestingly. -- at this pace right now or social activities during TV for appointment TV. Are on their eyes I mean every event it's going up and open up when there's weather streets for second overall -- -- -- number of users treating. All the -- on the -- -- or were really at this ingesting the growth era. For the what you do while -- watching the show. By. They've -- already that the stats on the Academy Awards in the south consumer -- were radically different and even the grammys -- apparently beat the Academy Awards for her her. Tweets per second or aural -- or something like that it -- literally mean that may be the Academy Awards were about a program. Well there's always been targeted and less time -- -- better content and also the argument about you know if you're watching. -- -- Russian Academy -- are probably watching a lot more video the grammys really you know you really need to see a Dell or you really just listening to right. And I'm. -- also interesting is the the -- analysis of the potential demographics that. You know who you are the are the Academy Award audience tweeting as much as the Grammy audience probably -- Its its interest in -- -- at the Academy Awards turned a bunch of the social apps. And there were. Mostly very disappointing experiences impressive while I watched account and -- of Princeton and every its two seconds and star appears onscreen makes which observers always laughing and and his banter and so was sinking just doesn't work in -- Couldn't catch -- -- it's just not the fault of the app but the room was just came out when it finally caught it I really didn't know what the I want and need to do. And so I went to the official Oscars app which was which. Where they knew -- -- was gonna happen when -- stage which was not sent them and -- only good thing that I found there was some you can actually go between camera. -- -- camera the Oscars is something very very interesting and I see this happening and sports potentially as well where there is the main screen you know you you see these controller right everybody's seen the picture of a right of it TV director in the joint control and surrounded by monitors in the dark you know nuclear bunker with a big screen saying -- this -- -- -- -- And what you're seeing when you watch any show is one shot of dozens. And what the second screen apps do like the Oscars -- in. Is let you watch on the second screen a different view right which is a really interesting idea. Media interest and all I am deeply flawed because it had audio there were doing interviews backstage while you're hearing -- you know -- -- -- making jokes etc. and I'm but I wanted to talk about some of the other apps because I felt that there was a huge risk opportunity what I was really looking for was not the tweets. But I was really looking for was expanding on the film that was being mister slick. OK there's that there's a form documentaries foreign short something like that would he would patent. Hardly ever heard about -- -- the apps waste that opportunity and giving me that right away real time. In really deep exploration I have to go back to the -- to be -- look at -- look at themselves I think that's where. The user experience and to -- really have to come together agreements that. I completely -- I think again -- this focus on. It it is the problem with. TVs industries is committed to Niger and all the money -- TV is about advertising and so you -- -- follow the money to see where the innovations happening. And the monies and -- as does that by -- you've got the social TV phenomenon which is getting advertisers -- marketers excited they're investing -- it. And so instead of companies thinking about it holistic -- will be the greatest experience we can make around the Oscars round Super -- around 30 Rock or whatever might be. Right now too much emphasizes. We know people are tweeting we got that we got to capture and engage and and I think. I think that's great but it feels like the kind of this whole social media thing all over again with with companies. Artificially shoving their way into consumers' lives I think instead -- the Oscars -- that hadn't. You know I agree you know Oscar pool thing -- collect a lawyer friends make a little voting ballots. Here's a links all the -- all the movies were and then -- the previews behind the scenes contents. You know I'm I'm not a big fan of all this second and third -- thing I am now -- -- work to watch TV on his -- -- -- back and just watch it. I don't mind turning -- the -- whatever but. At the end of the -- I think I think it's again people are expecting us to put too much time and energy into it supposed to be a pretty. Entertaining -- what. They called in the -- and the big difference between computers and television is that what they call the lean forward vs leaned back right and with this stuff on which when I spoke slowly laid out and put it right between the go to device between mean for you guys leans sideways as -- -- how can we go forward together. And if it's a big mistake because its its -- this of the things that people are using the terms -- saying -- -- -- lean back. But -- -- -- leaned back actually means is nearly making your aren't doing anything -- some that your mind is leaning aluminium back in unit engaging with something the most you might do it's like American -- you plug your phone vote. -- Euro you'll you'll do some little tiny bit about -- interaction. Lean towards -- there's there's a lot of -- are happy to engage with content that's fun sometimes but it. But there we've gotta decide you know -- Zealand's it was -- to relax which is really -- most Americans watch four hours of TV today it's it's not to be engaging in and voting in tweeting and challenging and picking -- to be escaping from the compare the run of the mill -- daily lives it's like. I want as a back and watch these want to whatever it whether it's train -- TV years sitcoms or dramas whatever might be right but there is -- -- executive reason we're here because those statistics and drastically changing and to have to have the spending power generation is apparently not doing that as much anymore -- that you -- We've we've known this when I've yet to see -- stuff that shows I hear the -- I go TV ad dollars went up last year TV ad viewed TV watching went up last year. And overall video consumption went up last year and anytime that -- the argument always comes back to -- kids these days and they watch the YouTube's but. Those -- and one immunization logistics -- say that. 92% of thirteen to 24 year olds have smaller device active running -- -- -- -- -- -- -- has a 100 -- today -- they're you they're sending some execs who takes an -- including while -- in classrooms. I think we have -- whole other. Issue -- session to deal if I look -- -- has to go back to bare arm to appoint humane arm arm earlier are lost interest on. -- well it was a wonder what one of things you steadily in the you're actually painting it at a somewhat a hopeful view the vision of four. And future content consumers which is at during gauged from. We have it's exactly that what's the point if you -- that the arm arm instead of figuring out the greatest experience I think maybe there's also a flaw in there and production workflow. That you know people get togethers -- -- have to make its efficacy stats just came out we have to either really quick. We don't have time to really think about what is a great experience. And with the speed that everything's moving -- apparently doubling or knowledge on the planet every eighteen months. You know how -- you figure out if fairly complex. Behavior pattern that involves the whole body your mind your eyes ears and potentially the person next to you on the couch so I think there's there's the -- so it's a regular person next COM one a big parts of -- -- experience we've got we've touched on it a little bit is the -- of the social. TV viewing. Or social content -- Consumption now of course on our computers there we have moved into an era of social games. Zynga world warcraft of people -- -- to gaming now with friends. The second screen can be a great enabler of social content consumption where we used to sit on the couch -- with her family. Now for a sitting there in home alone we can actually being -- with other people is that is that a big part of the second screen movement here. The big part of the movement I think it's a tiny part of reality. If results. Just purchased on -- again getting. -- bones to pick the term social outside social gaming gaming has been social since Atari 2600. The -- the web has been social since the ninety's and TV's been social since the day it was invented with. Multiple people watching multiple shows sitting on the couch talking about the -- code and next say always done is change the pace at which people can share those experiences. I think. There will. Absolutely be. More socially stuff where you can chat with friends etc. The problem -- -- -- they think of a look at the one biggest trend in TV it's more personalized on demand in location viewing in other -- You watch what you are where you want whatever no rules apply anymore. So in our world how to write a social experience with a buddy of mine across the coast watching the same thing because he's gonna take -- bathroom break. Relative and it's a funny comment but. It's true how do you really create you know if -- one how do you really get everybody who's -- -- a socially conjoined experience actually -- together may have problems -- I think it's there are -- I think I think that's I think it's like -- -- -- killer after missing that's exactly where. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Literacy and now it in now it works with their digital media device so. But leaving comments are showing off cultural reference seen something that you did Jeff Bridges and relating that's another film. Now I think that's where the sort of network is powerful we can we you can show off making that reference sending it to a friend and they might be able to relive that moment and so I think that's a really good. Like a lot of the so social networking is really about. With some -- for his name called the -- -- and ego boost. If it really is he say it's -- sharing but really showing off its about your belt shortly after computes. We are just animals -- -- -- I wanna talk and about two things really briefly here one is the concept of the second screen app that automatically synchronize with what you're watching our our on the on the big screen whether or not it's live or recorded. And that uses -- technology that. A Yahoo! acquisition in -- now make popular where it actually listens to what's happening. And -- up that's called. A CR automatic content recognition Texaco audio fingerprinting and watermarking. Content recognition is the big picture video recognition fundraisers how how big deal is and who's winning who's losing me who the big players and ACR and a. Big players I mean so it's now being action of technology that license that which which is -- -- -- -- does it I think -- doesn't it there's before other startups doing it it is -- Yeah us and it says pretty common thing it's fairly c'mon the M I know sort of building from scratch their estimates from from start to finish is is measured by weeks so I don't think it's actually heart problem. I think it's interesting but to me it's a band -- technology it's something -- get -- kind of a from where we are -- to future can be. What I mean all. We're not far away through a highly connected living room on a current TV replacement cycles basically everybody in America avenue TV within seven years. The most common TVs being sold today are considered Smart TVs which means they have Wi-Fi connectivity built -- And have your TV and your set top box are Smart they actually know what bearing and so you can just inquire over Wi-Fi and find -- the exact thing. And it doesn't respect to the -- screens second screen flipped it uses audience with a direct control which is a -- -- attorney -- no -- of the repairs that are connected with an iPad that's connected but. -- demo sells itself and and that's exactly where you go -- with this -- set -- box implementations at companies -- and yes -- -- right now we can actually. Go right -- back and forth between the TV and -- and I find that a lot more interest in an audio fingerprinting on warm and I agree it's at and -- Now com and published in constant chat room one says -- from dozens of jab. Talk about what fantasy football has done to advance this idea about social content and an attached to one of the most of them. -- their own content farms -- is sports. I'm -- there's -- more I I am stunned by the lack of innovative -- second screen apps I think. Print legacy I think actually CBS sports no plug international. About the idea of -- -- just to -- both big comfort and street is again blob of but I was told -- -- that. But the CBS sports a second screen apps -- fantasy are -- and he said that some of the games who's watching he saw on his iPad that one of his players and scored preview. Before the screen shows because of small time -- -- there but I I think I think there's a wealth of opportunities on the island. Truly means there's no more sort of doing that especially compared the social TV stuff which is which is the yet to be -- more people and do. Fancy sports has lots of money lots of users and in -- and the natural draw for innovation. And it's and it's an extension of the Xperia which is exactly -- them mobile devices great. They went once you've done with the game once as a break in the game -- engage with your experience and stay in the moment. From powerful tool that was cousin of -- percent of -- and I blame the topography on the stupid chat app I have here courier Daniel. Also venture about to ensure a bomb says that give me a top chef chef second app I want to know about the guest chef. His restaurant to -- I guess recipes meant what a perfect idea for a for an -- To bookmark a -- when you see something being made that two translators would -- like. Chicken wrapped in bacon so I want the rest -- the boom -- Hate to -- I don't really -- -- channel that can receive as it has had a second's there you have that is. So powerful in -- you buy what you see right away. You know so it and that's where there your recipes and you know how -- promote the product should not so directly but through the experience that you having with it and ties directly into. That doesn't surprise me mean. I have the chance -- -- -- -- -- and people. -- you when I was whistling of years ago and they understand. Consumers and buying so well. And they're like -- -- -- -- I mean the stats they -- -- on the -- on how people buy what triggers elect consists of members who started -- buying somebody wanted to recipes know about -- definitely not -- it's related because it's an insult but but the recipe apps makes sense by the way -- analysis to go back to the you know you almost anyone want to bookmark fuels -- seconds we have. It should in this engine as there -- -- while you're watching issues he hears all the stuff about the observe the just watch -- and then here's yet here's every episode nearly every show I -- -- pairs every episode every shot just made. Here's the restaurants that are out. I actually went looking I was in a as a -- years ago I went looking for Yahoo! which top chef. -- are in Chicago so there's so much of these. Bringing together kind of from your TV to your mobile life opportunities of that I think it's going to be -- fun. Two years ago and I'd and that's exactly -- actually addressing all of the second screeners need a much stronger standalone experience -- you pick it up and you engage with the content even when you know watching the show. Always it would it be to -- like -- -- it's admittedly showed every show has a website. Yeah but it's ten. -- the end its behavior against take this thing here and -- -- the recipe appears you walk over to -- kitchen and a and you can't it's not you know it's that it's almost like. It needed to be more while in the home for us was -- -- And the institute and using more and do -- to save available let's say they also have a FaceBook page. Answer a labor of -- they'll have some kind of mobile experience to the didn't want but the good ones will make it and and the good ones won't just be just like a Russian TV it'll take the concept of how this top -- -- in your life if you're -- -- Right houses has record I don't write your I'm -- -- but. Obviously it's very popular. I'm -- -- -- -- love all of the recordings while the artist then gone on maybe links the original songs -- -- covers some classic piece on the get the original video on their two and that's being served up by Bebo and you can share under SpinRite page and you have an. He's listening device not to do -- -- over -- and and ship it which was all possible so I feel like karaoke a similar field -- 3-D TV at the heart not positive enough speaking of which -- -- so we don't we don't think this is via a game and I'd I'd leave the three years. Is a gimmick. Their commitment -- you content you'll think I'm wrong but should does -- have the same danger level of moving into gimmick territory that -- -- the second screen -- -- Some of it yes some of the stuff we're seeing it is so so limited announced earlier the MySpace and Friendster error. I would say that today in second's screen is more in the geocities era as it pertains to where our web and social -- -- where we're. -- And so -- -- the Serbs and you even think -- comments there are probably going to fail so. So were so so early in what's loyalty in second screen but I think. It's unlikely that some of this will gain momentum if you think about what we just brainstorm that's a -- footballer top shelf. Type -- those don't seem farfetched whether or not you're gonna do all these quirky check -- get points with a prize. No get some reward for Russians -- -- seems weird to me by the fact that. You watch -- show you want to members of self and you're going to go look things up later seems very. You know connect the dots. Gonna be mostly it's gonna get more slick and seamless and there are devices don't know where we are to know what -- like you know that someone they would just know what we're watching. And then it's for an API that you can build experiences and talk without having to start -- -- -- and Apple -- and I think that's stupid confusing fragmentation right now that makes the experience it's weird but only to book. Mark the world. I'm sure that's out there who -- and is -- to -- -- that -- and I'm sure there is. -- -- time -- -- time from -- -- what what about the M. The television manufacturers and we were talking about them knowing what they're watching now my TV and those obviously or -- know when I'm watching a -- and a broadcast show but there is time when. Streaming a home movie or -- watching something over the Internet on my roku Boxee. Maybe it will know that -- Apple what is the role that TV manufacturer in integrating with other living room devices specially -- On the couch. It has spent the past six months talking to every -- -- pressure on the planet so. -- don't all know I know some of them are best thing hardcore in building up platforms that there TVs are Smart. Some of them are taking a very connected centric approach where there are kind of opening up the TV to the network and letting things happen. A lot of them really haven't quite figured is that there are all building their own second screen apps but none of them I -- They knew how by OS developers two years ago in -- they didn't have UI developers five years ago so these are brand new challenges. For the TV industry. Some of them. Are now being very well in my opinion -- some of them are are really experimenting which is great and I mean Sony Samsung Vizio and LG. Happen at some very very advanced stuff just to see what happens I think it's great to seeds into rare. -- to say the Japanese canard Korean or US consumer electronics company. That effectively loses money on those who TVs they sell is experimenting. In a product category that your people spend a thousand to 200 bucks -- I think it's great. To disarm them not -- Savvy in their manufacturing fields aren't just from the experience. Really what what the second screen does right now is this what it's won the popular video. And public Veoh was on TV that there was no more to do that and I think that's where the TV manufacturers have huge opportunity right now. To bring some of that metadata back onto the screens -- don't have to look down fundamentals screen. Medical become an overlay or if you have it's when you run out when human by nine TV you know this huge space all of a -- -- -- additional content -- if you want it. I'm interest that I'm not sure that's gonna work but I would -- interest in -- out. While helping to figure out -- experience -- all you work with content companies with Yahoo!'s media producers and limits to -- news and what's the trend there what's their take them on the second screen. I think it's all part of them figuring out the future of digital distribution and whether collateral continent the brand extensions need to go for people to experience the property and know that the dvd it's tough you know going away and there -- congress -- -- -- you know that's. I would also -- into this whole -- -- like I want the director's commentary on my iPad while I'm watching the show. With you know several. -- -- -- may be different views of our initial renderings that's exactly the standard -- that -- -- experimenting -- or send -- next I don't know I wanna -- it -- a relentlessly -- from the tailored. Mick Foley -- I still want it. I mean I think that only some just have to point this that -- has as many of which in Russia as air shows and and and consumers. Oil -- backs of his life treaty is of god and -- and connected -- and second screen isn't bad there's so much things of people are gonna want there is room for some. App development to figure out a simple -- forum for developer for delivering you the the sides commentary. There's someone else can make the voting -- -- click the recipes thing. I know the 11 of the biggest questions in my eyes right -- I have a hard time seeing is. Will you have to second screen apps or 200 right I think that's a very very tricky thing for Europe because when you go generic. You lose out on the Disney you know companies always -- -- Disney doesn't want a generic experience they want this. Animated it's ever experienced her assignment try to sell me more lunch box -- that's what they're trying to -- And the other end of the spectrum as we are talking on the volume small -- small TV. Actually TV startups like the new shows. They'll have big budgets and -- and go invest in these massively immerse of things some where generics of -- -- -- -- sense com but I have a real hard time figuring out what. What do consumers can be tolerating on the -- on their ipads -- it will they have 1015 -- -- mine hopping back and forth between or related to its hard to figure out. Maybe when -- -- power up a fire to show the app comes over. The network automatically -- you haven't -- when you're done on it but they were advertising. -- -- and it doesn't help us build our currency translator that states that shifted the future rates you know. In the device -- arts. We're out of time thank you of only Lukens is the chief creative guy over at MX which does second screen apps and where can people go to see some of your product -- Amex Amex dot com as -- -- a good selection of the work that we've done our most recently we've collaborated with Disney's if you go to Disney's second screen -- from. What they've put out with around and then I would do that when I watch the shows of my -- And Jeremy Tillman is the chief product over office over -- -- this DI JIT. Turret and they do a really cool. Program guide at -- tells a little about than elsewhere via. -- you can get that in the IOS or Android as well the IG IT to search for it will find -- Said the app is designed to be both -- TV guide and remote control the remote control part. Requires you -- ever roku order you to purchase a beacon from Griffin. -- of 5060 bucks online. And it -- is like an IR emitter that sits in your coffee table and can control all the devices in your home. I menus -- guide to figure out everything from social stuff what your friends watching we heard from FaceBook as well -- your own favorite shows even have all your favorite channels what's neat is. You can if they'll ever personally watch -- twelve channels so in our happiness filter out all the channels you ever watch and to see your own personalized guidance and that's the sort of. Jeremy -- thanks so much spectrum -- in its -- pleasure producing we'll see guys next week another episode of reporters' roundtable. CNN by.