Ep. 83: The new social battleground: Tech Culture
Tech Culture: Ep. 83: The new social battleground34:48 /
It's been a big two weeks in social networking. Google+ launched, Myspace got sold, and Facebook launched video chat. To discuss the new landscape, Rafe Needleman talks with Inside Facebook's Josh Constine and MIT Tech Review's Erica Naone.
-- Are going up to reporters' roundtable -- middlemen in San Francisco this is -- -- show we talk about a single tech topic each time and this week of course we're talking about. The new social networking battle lines to just recently been re drawn. Let me kind of set the stage for this conversation by rehashing a little bit of the news items over the last two weeks -- -- -- on June 28. Google launched Google plus which is of social network with circles in this killer video feature called -- On July 1. News Corp. sold MySpace. To specific media and Justin Timberlake for a tenth of what they purchase that for. I got those numbers right. Also on July 1 Zynga of the game company that makes that lives inside FaceBook a file to go public. Very important IPO there. And then -- July 6 FaceBook added a Skype powered video calling feature and group text chat. I haven't mentioned Twitter Twitter has been in the news is -- and I'm a big way and July 5 it bought the social analysis company backed type. Which will be relevant to this conversation so. The question is has the social network landscape changed and how much. Is Google plus that much for a big deal what has it all mean so discussed this and that two very interesting guests who have not -- on the show here before. First here in the studio Josh -- -- Who is a lead -- inside FaceBook. Welcome thanks for coming -- -- thanks very much for having me here -- you can guess what he covers and -- Skype. Which is now but not the FaceBook version of Skype. -- -- -- -- the social media editor at MIT tech review which is a publication that you should all read is awesome. Erica thanks -- -- the time. Thanks for having me. -- let's get started let's lay out what the social landscape looked like -- to levels that say. Thirty days ago for all that's happened who were the winners who was lagging. What were the big question. Sherpas -- FaceBook was far ahead in it was 750 million users as Mark Zuckerberg just confirmed at the press event on on Wednesday. And Google's Google socialists system was really dilapidated and they didn't have anything really going. Buzz which they launched about a year ago had sort of failed so -- way of and that people were skeptical about whether they would be able to create a full fledged social network or whether they were just going to be launching something that would be more akin to -- -- that -- social layer that wouldn't. All over -- the rest of their products allowing you to share things like Google Maps and and searches things like that. Okay Erica what -- -- think how to things look thirty days ago compared to how they'll right now. -- a lot of -- He's given up on competing with they spent directly they seem to be more interested in. Linking to me using it to promote their own social offerings linking up to -- -- -- Twitter so. I think that people are wondering if Google was gonna try direct approach. Okay so of the things that I discussed here at the -- the -- news items what was the most important change was that indeed Google plus. Yeah I -- they've been Google launching Hulu plus is extremely important. Specifically a lot of the actions that users take across Google's products. It requires a sort of news feeds somewhere to aggregate those actions and distribute them to a user's friends for them to really be -- otherwise things like Google's plus one -- and where users can -- Can sort of vote up or -- similar to tool like on web sites or search results on those but enjoyed and how much meaning if there was no where the bad news was being shared so is crucial for Google to launch something like like circles -- Google plus what took so long. I think there -- really focused -- on their other products they -- that their core competency was in search and some other specialty products. And that -- maybe -- and think that that socialist -- -- be quite as important as it was eventually and that social data and what's someone's friends did would be so important to you to all of their choices things that included their core -- you know what your friends clicked on search results is really important to what you wanna click on. Erica -- -- ask you this since you're not here in the heart of the bubble in Silicon Valley although you are. You know -- -- affiliated with MIT tech review which is a magazine by and for geeks of the highest caliber why do geeks seem to love Google plus so much I can't I'm partying anything negative about it what do you think. I think did it gives you a lot of the kind of controls that. I had 64 it geeks that. All users like myself and -- -- a text suspect but and -- definitely key. Done anyway just like how you wanna control your -- your -- features that we want to optimize things for yourself I think Google class lets you get in their fatal Felix you understand a little more of what's going on and what's happening to what you're posting. And that's why they like it so much I mean isn't isn't what makes a social network. Feel like home a few successful of the people in minimum more than the technology behind -- mean does the is there more here -- plus than just the cute little circle animations. -- -- I also think that there's an early -- doctor -- happening now where people are happy to begin their happy be connecting with each other. I think that Google has hit that middle of the road that they were talking about they said that they spec. Is fired -- -- -- sharing where you want to the Internet with your friends Twitter is for trying to be public. -- try to broadcasting's -- people and that with plus they -- something that could flexibly move between those -- spectrums and experience that it's so far is that it does allow it. Just what you think this does Google plus split the difference between. The reciprocal connections of FaceBook and the broadcast connections of Twitter. I'm I think it actually falls more towards Twitter because it and asynchronous following and allowing people to to read the updates of somebody else if they publish them publicly. It's actually about a lot closer to it to Twitter than FaceBook. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- And that flexibility I think it's gonna make it less useful for social sharing. Because -- when you're talking about social content that you only want certain people perceive there's inevitably going to be you know your bosses are co workers a family members that you don't wanna share everything -- then and circles works if you want to share with specific groups like atoms just wanna share -- my family but not if I wanna share with everyone but my family doesn't work quite as well so they're missing the -- and its feature. Yeah I guess you could say that -- I think it's just that a lot of people complain that Facebook's friend lists are too difficult to create -- and that their privacy system is. Is too -- for the average user but at the same time -- -- after talking about geeks are the ones -- -- early adopting Google -- you know they really want your flexibility I think there's -- a bit more of that right now in Facebook's privacy controls but then again Google's and we launched a few days -- so they've got a long way to -- but I think -- -- at which time they may be able to to shore that -- and haven't really -- percent socialist well but for now I see more as a competitor to things like Twitter and -- Which I did says -- -- -- -- I think there's an interface difference in how you Sharon Google plus that's kind of important. You you don't just default share. To the public unless you specify have to specify when you're sharing and I find it that affects -- I think about circles and who I'm -- -- to -- to exclude people. Do you think people have figured out yet how to really use Google plus and to me have been using it since since the launch and it's it's a new metaphors in new way of sharing them and I know I share with FaceBook and sharing with a relatively small circle -- known or share with. Twitter -- sharing to everybody who's following me and whoever that is. With -- plus I haven't yet figured kind of internalize the whole okay I'm just giving this to my work friends just giving -- my family. What he -- gonna happen is people. Begin to understand the differences between plus and Twitter and FaceBook and Linkedin for that matter. As an alias and that you're gonna learn how to use it better and figured out what they want shareware but that decision is is sort of paralyzing at times you -- go to Google plus and you Salem. I have to do sort of some work before I can easily share something that to decide who it's gonna go to. With Twitter and FaceBook it's a lot quicker it's easier to just -- something out and so you have a a random thought its it's not a lot the -- friction involved in sharing which I think is really important. When you're talking about. Mass adoption right now is we've with early adopters they're willing to go through some of that friction and take the time to build all their circles and -- all this. But but things like FaceBook and Twitter where you know basically. In except for when you're talking about specific privacy -- -- specific. Twitter -- it you're really of publishing to everyone at once and and that's easy that's really simple for people to understand and and I think -- that helps -- with mass adoption so it'll be interesting to see if if the average user can grasp. What it takes to figure out where what circle I'm in shares picked him. At just -- stay with you here for second. Google plus this is far from their first attempt to do social networking in addition to -- social network -- In addition to wave and buzz may have a Google has. Have the plus one. Not Google plus but the plus one feature for -- while. And other social features it what do you think that -- from all those experiments that Google learned. And then for referred for Drudge well three you have for Erica what do you think that Google learned from FaceBook in the -- took before they launched -- hopeless. -- when when -- came out there eventually turned out to via a big privacy concern because people. Didn't really realize that they were sharing things -- all of their Gmail contacts. About times -- Gmail contacts included people that -- the only new one professional basis are they only knew in a very you know -- some -- and people world might acquaintances. And and that caused people ultimately. Get worried and a lot of people are attractive from -- and because they just didn't want that much syndication of of their content across all the different other different networks and so I think I grew literally learned -- back and news as sort of gone the other direction where it's very very specific who you're sharing where that's not the sort of Google's deciding -- panacea it's much more that the users in control so I think they weren't a lot pop from that. In terms of FaceBook I think -- even if you take a look at the Google plus -- -- it's obvious that you know it's it's very similar to inspect it might not be that it's necessarily taking directly from FaceBook. But actually just that that's a sensible -- for for content to be laid out. But I think they they realize that. There's certain elements that it of putting out a publisher upn and making that very very. Obvious and and readily accessible to users percent of they learned from FaceBook you have defaulting to everyone to -- to landing on the home page for the first thing Macy is the sharing box. And Google's even gone one step further which as one of the things that I think is best about Google plus is that there's a little -- Icon our share -- window in the very top right corner of the window no matter where you are in Google plus and even sometimes across other Google products. And and that makes it really simple to to share things quickly so I think that that's batch features something that that they may have expanded on upon FaceBook and it is but might even wanna consider -- -- air it -- how do you -- program Google stands -- does that stand on the on the shoulders of FaceBook here. I think they've learned a lot from these specs interface they have a really clean approach that reminds me of how FaceBook was particularly before the launch of it's platform. So I think that's one thing another thing is I think they've learned from -- specs privacy woes. They've learned that people will get themselves. Upset every time things changed the way they're not expecting so. I noticed that Google says it's going to delete private profile Spanish is going to delete them -- -- to make them public. I feel like that's something that they've learned from watching FaceBook -- from their own problems with -- wouldn't. So moving on a little bit it to FaceBook here and -- come back to local plus and I believe. -- -- and I were both that the FaceBook announcement this week -- FaceBook rolled out there are awesome new feature which was a deal with Skype to do point to point video calling and also group text chat. The buzz in the room. Portraits of words the mood in the room especially in the life I -- when we were doing -- live blog I don't know if you -- we were doing a live blog and the commentary that I -- coming back from four -- -- a live blog. Was very negative effect is really that's it wake me up with something interesting -- why were people some negative on the launch of FaceBook video was it just because of the plus effect or what. I really think that him. People -- violent person to person video chat -- -- has been around for really long time you know some other -- of -- that they've had this for years and years it's not the technology itself is not specifically new -- -- people wanted something that was a little bit more revolutionary in that -- they didn't want a feature that they've -- elsewhere but now more easily accessible with their friends but -- fact that's actually really important it's it's -- the idea that now you don't have to download a client you don't have to -- to set up an account with things it's using the capital most everyone already has. And and it's bringing video -- -- to hundreds of millions of people who and in that sense I think it it actually is revolutionary because now. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You know there's people that previously might have thought that video chat with certain outside of the realm of their that -- confidence -- nowadays they understand it's simple you know it everything is almost done -- you FaceBook walks you through it when you make your first video chat. It's very it gives you an easy -- -- of how it the product works and hopes you installed the small plug in that you need. And separate that I think that is really revolutionary but that's not the kind of thing that really elect takes people by the rains are not saying oh my god this is totally different and and so I think that's why you saw sort of muted response but in fact did that overall impact is going to be huge that's I wanna continues to drill into the importance of video conferencing in the social world which we will do. After we take a really short break we'll be right back -- -- -- -- back and we were talking about video with FaceBook just launched -- on point to point video calling. Launched Google hang -- which is multi party video calling -- how important Erica how important is video features two social networking now what. What's changed. I think it for one thing people can participate in them more easily it's just that we have better Internet connections everyone has a webcam built -- to their laptop. And so it's smart comfortable and I find it it's surprisingly fun I really enjoyed testing Google hang outs when I tested with groups of people that's what I heard from everyone. Was their favorite teacher. So I think it's just kind of going with the times I also have thought that some of the social networking use of video reminds me of YouTube parties and things people -- used you watching video on the Internet these days socially. And so now we're watching each -- -- Have you tried hang out. I've -- it only preliminarily. So I haven't really gotten some of the -- features but I think that some of the ability to share content and not just does video of each other thing is is really important. The idea that you can you can watch a YouTube video together on Google -- -- you can share an animated -- image and watch it together. I think that's really the it's a lot of fun meant something that that people are going to specifically go to Google plus to use. Erica is not the first time I've heard the term YouTube party it is however only the second time in the with less my life -- heard the term Hutu parties that. -- heard that -- the art. They're listening yeah I read about it yes that's right that's where of those the first time -- heard -- electricity. So. Should FaceBook be scared I mean Google plus is. -- notes that -- and then there's this feature which is almost feels almost insular to which is Google hang out which I've used and I think if I aren't up to elect a here. I would to a 20 summit party but about a two weeks it was the of the week that -- Plus watch I ran into the controller or tow truck who is like the big season in at the local he's a game in the story that -- the -- coming. And I told him that I love hang up I've been using it worked and I think it's fantastic -- he says no you're doing it wrong. And he says. He says this -- you're missing the point what you wanna do you wanna fire up Google hang out with your friends and family at 10 o'clock with a glass aligning your hands and it's a personal thing it's not -- work -- I don't care I'd love for he says you're missing the point. -- So I just want to throw that in there and talk about the idea of the multi party video social networking. Did Google get it right both work and for -- and for personal use and should FaceBook be worried. I think earlier reports seeing so that that Google is the right people -- -- in the product they're finding it relatively easy and intuitive to use. Diamond is the people who have gotten onto Google plus even -- it's only a small portion of the -- people there on FaceBook are are really show until it. Yeah I think that that FaceBook should be a little bit worried that they who has gotten so far ahead of them in its in the video chat space. Pad and there's a lot on things the can be done there. But that in the real the real personal thing with with hang ounces. It's only fun if your friends are there and right now in everyone's friends or not there right now it's you know these pockets of early adopters sodium maybe if you run in a circle. Another button and portraits of words if you're if you hang out -- And if you that is if they don't all know where addressed -- whole language exactly relationship you know if you if you like to spend time and other people who are also early adopters of technology products then it might seem like all of your friends are already there. But in in reality across the world it's the adoption is still really well and you know. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Erica want to ask you about. Or expands conversation talk about some other companies in the first when we meet talk about on it the Twitter eventually is Skype. FaceBook is using Skype technology for the point to point video calling. But they're not yet integrated in with Skype app app where the Skype fit in the whole social sphere here they just becoming a a technology provider or is there more that Skype can -- should be doing. I think -- that they they obviously have an existing user base but. And I think that when Microsoft is interested -- I was expecting to see them turn up on FaceBook somehow. I think right now they are sort of enabling their I think -- with the purchase by Microsoft people are wondering where they're gonna go and that's never a good thing in terms of building a community around something people are. Dealing uncertainty and so. It kind of thinking back to hang -- Google benefits because their infrastructure is really integrated and I think that so far. Dusty specs state. Connection doesn't seem as integrated. I wonder just in a random thought here is how or if that Google Video infrastructure and that Skype. Slash FaceBook infrastructure can be connected because that we move towards a world like we were. It's was early ninety's where we -- these different instant message social -- -- -- and interconnect. Two world we've -- different video conferencing systems that don't interconnect. And I don't wanna go through that again -- you who are we gonna do. -- and it took awhile but eventually a lot of the chat programs started some -- interoperability or -- of people were setting -- essentially hubs where people from different instant messaging clients can interact with each -- and Google's announced that there will eventually be interoperability. For -- -- hang -- which means that -- Other types of video chat clients will be able to plug into that so the user doesn't -- have to be on Google plus to join hang out. Eventually. And that's going to be really important for them to me in that way that even if they don't get that massive user distribution or that massive user base that the product will still be really powerful mum on the other hand I think that the partnership for Skype is is it's a great move for them -- it's getting their name in front of so many hundreds of millions of people. Every time you fire up a video chat. Our video call on FaceBook you see the FaceBook plus Skype logo and you know while while Skype has has done a good job getting distribution. It you know being in front of that many people can't be anything but good for the company. -- and they've already tried to be denied doing some -- stuff they're not just a technology if you if you look at the Skype client. There's actually a bunch of FaceBook features and it already you can browse some of your new speed and and -- and comment on news feed stories from. From your Skype -- -- premier -- Skype client. -- and so I don't think that their content just becoming a technology back on the -- it's funny though that they that you can't while you can't do that within Skype. In the current -- anyway -- non beta action inclined you can't actually make it Skype video call to a powered by Skype FaceBook user. Not yet but that's another thing that they announced that it's it's very likely that the Skype in the Skype FaceBook integration. Will not be compatible with widgets Skype client users now. In 2007. MySpace did a deal with Skype. And we all I forgot about that when I put a Twitter post up. Saying that I think the combination of FaceBook with -- 750 million users and Skype which is the large international phone company the other was. Extraordinarily powerful more so than most people are giving credit. And and everybody broke back but no -- as MySpace that it's open at the moment. How is this different and how how powerful do we think. -- -- the first on this it would that FaceBook plus Skype could be to global communications. I think it really depends on. How it ends up blood relatives a plane I think if you think about what based integrated chat. And people started using it naturally I'm not sure yet how naturally people are going to start using video calling -- -- FaceBook I think if they do it'll be important but. -- now that's not what I'm thinking about when I go to FaceBook so. I think -- he's gonna be if it's in the front to people's minds. They stick. A Wylie goes include the ability to have live video events within it and -- That's not something I found myself very aware of as a user -- so. I'm I'm kinda skeptical honestly. Josh is a lot of this have to do with people's habits and you've studied the sociology of social networking. Is this all about breaking habits or people. That there -- people flexible -- comes to social technologies. Yeah I think people who are flexible they don't want their their behaviors to be broken and the completely re routed but -- I think it is more nationalist -- people have. Their behaviors built upon each other that's an -- Facebook's -- -- really good job -- -- but the the video call product. Because it's not. By introducing a new area -- in new application -- place called video calling when it is this is to build out of chat when you go in chat someone you'll now see -- video icon that allows you to just initiate a video call with them and I think that once enough people of had to agree first experience with a video calling it had a great call the family members and -- -- haven't seen in a long time. They're gonna start thinking that you know that's an option when I'm on -- but. And that if it's video Skype on FaceBook is a lot different than when it was on MySpace -- MySpace may have had all of you know a lot of users. But it wasn't it didn't have authenticated identity and as soon as you turn on your webcam that's really -- that's authenticated identity right there so it -- really make sense to have -- a screen -- MySpace screen name but then you know -- that could -- transparent and seeing yourself behind -- -- that was and what MySpace was never really about -- that is what FaceBook is about it is your real identity and so I think via Skype is a very natural extension of but of the authenticated identity of its. I don't a couple other topics here in the time we have left Twitter. We haven't talked -- -- Twitter much today except effect like tweeting out that I was doing the show. Back. Where's tree in the last two weeks has the landscape changed for the a company of Twitter and all the employees and all the users over there. I mean I think that Twitter is an a shaky position right now -- -- that it they have a great head start. In terms of and he synchronous -- content distribution system. -- it you know Google is really is gunning for them in some ways with with their product because. Allows thought leaders to distribute their contents suits however many people want to follow them to -- area very yet to broadcast very similar to to Twitter. But it has richer content. Abilities in -- you can. You can share things like like videos and photos. In line above and -- newest design allows you to see those in the sidebar. It's not quite as natural as seeing them right in line and as you can -- -- plus. And and also the conversation aspects of Google plus I think are a lot better you know and in some ways that that the Twitter replies system its its so public that people aren't always interested in and -- there -- sort of worried about what what they say you all -- in almost all cases all replies -- public and that's not always how people wanna carry on a conversation conversations can be a little bit more freewheeling and that people don't want have to worry that everything they ever -- is going to be. Archive forever from. But yeah and and Google's commenting system. I I think that it will solve some of those problems and made lead to better conversations and that's really an important part of and any social network or any social feature and so -- I was Twitter -- I would actually be pretty worried about this -- I think I disagree. I think that Google likes things that are public and so I don't see it is really gunning for Twitter because that's stated that's public that it can see. And anything I put on plus is also public. I Salt Lake. Twitters. Functionality similarly useful I can stand down to -- list -- short messages that. Don't have a lot of stuff attach them and and I think a lot of people really like that and really like that -- space. Also Google made buzz work really well -- Twitter so I'm curious to see how that's gonna go for it. I am I -- -- plus is more aimed at -- that because that's. Information that Google doesn't have access students largely private and I see that as what they're really trying to replace the behaviors that they're trying to pull into a mark public's accessible -- Technical term -- -- I think that -- -- it the ability to have a network like Twitter where you can really easily consume a ton of content because it's all formatted in a very similar way. I think that's that's definitely useful in and your point makes sense that that Google would want to -- a network which is. Which is less public opposed to what Twitter is because that's where information is already available your -- your tweets being archive by Google. -- so we haven't talked about other important companies here. Microsoft. Anything worth mentioning or sudden effect there in the process of buying Skype and -- this -- important. From Microsoft really gonna in the being a fun and honestly -- this is plain have been. We're looking -- does yeah I think that they. That Google's trying to increase its overall stickiness with this you know the more that I'm inside Google. All day of -- -- that I'm gonna be using Google products and I saw a funny video on YouTube -- referred to that people are gonna think Google is the Internet now but also has the social networks out. In that -- I -- it as a threat to bank. And Apple. Apple has experimented with social networking kinda sort of with -- -- in iTunes. What does. What how does Apple react to people to companies especially Google and FaceBook trying to kind of either place -- kind of hang out and stay. -- I think we're seeing with the then. The specs of the newest mobile OS for for Apple -- That they're they're getting closer with Twitter. -- possibly in in an effort to try to compete with with FaceBook in Google so there's going to be easy ways to share content from your iPhone to Twitter. With a with a -- that's always there. I'm and I think that's gonna be really important for Appleton to steam to stay up in that -- competition is right now they don't have anything any type of real social product of meaning of their around. So Apple's cast its lot with Twitter. And here we are you saying. That. Plus is a threat to FaceBook Eric listening busses and a threat to Twitter or electrically based switch -- yes which sorry about that -- That and that's interest in. It's hard to know what was going on behind the scenes at FaceBook has a lot more leverage and -- they have so many users from that they can they can set their terms a little bit more than Twitter which which has significantly fewer users. I'm and so -- Apple may have been able to secure more a more favorable. Deal -- -- than they could've gotten with -- basement may have asked for a lot more. And also FaceBook and Apple are readying to go up against each other in terms of mobile gaming -- FaceBook is launching. And html five mobile site which is gonna allow people to play FaceBook games from their mobile devices and that's -- and their FaceBook credits system is gonna come up right against. Apple's in app payments. And so -- -- starting they're really starting to come to head against each other the way that FaceBook and Google have already. Montserrat that you make sense for -- to try to go with Twitter and and get some type of social to their products without having to necessarily cater to what -- Once -- in interest and finally want to close with this. MySpace was once the social network 210. Million users. Acquired. By News Corp. for a government -- correctly 350 million dollars. By frontman Ian dyslexic today 530 million dollars and sold for less than a tenth of that. Could FaceBook get MySpace by Google or anybody else. Erica let's start with -- whereas FaceBook vulnerable. I think they're vulnerable with privacy with having. Sat no arms that they then shift without people's. Awareness so. I think that's probably their weakest point they've been getting attacked daily by other companies but none in terms of what's happened at MySpace -- -- lake. -- that's not quite the same position they have a much stronger and broader reach at this point they've become really essential to people's lives. I hear people talking about how they don't wanna be on FaceBook but they suffer. Social punishment if they don't they don't get invited to things you don't know what's going on. I don't think -- -- was ever that integrated and people's lives. Just rethink its FaceBook reached past the point of vulnerability. Well the thing I think there was really special about FaceBook was was how it gained all of its users it had a very specific distribution strategy where it. Competed with other social networks ecologists which had them and and moved from college to college saying -- -- They would wait until a college had about had 50% of the the student's request that FaceBook released there and they would launch there it would spread like wildfire instantly and they'd move on to the next school. I think that distribution strategy and starting with those people -- with Ivy League schools and then -- -- American college students which you know people around the world consider sort of the coolest people in the world. I think that gave it a lot of credibility and led to it eventually -- to at 750 million users size at that point. Also that the value proposition -- made this huge before there was no authenticated identity social networking on the Internet. The just in excess FaceBook offered a huge gain for people huge benefits -- out by offering that. I don't know if what Google is offering on top of FaceBook is nearly as as big of a value add -- what FaceBook added on top of of MySpace. And so combining that with with Google's distribution strategy which it at this point is you know giving invites early adopters and then eventually letting more people on. I don't think that that's nearly as -- -- -- distribution strategy because what happens is. Early adopters get on they see that only a few of their friends are there and they start to tune out by the time that all their friends actually do show up and so each. Person comes on says all my friends are here in this sort of essentially -- -- and so that lack of a clear value add on top of -- but here's what is -- haven't -- of MySpace and that distribution strategy being a little bit. What scheme then and what is the cat I think that's really gonna be the deciding factor that's -- -- Google from from taking over FaceBook. That's a real interest in point in I I just went to paraphrase that to reiterate what I think you're getting at here which is. That while Google may if you Google plus may appear to be a big win right now. It hasn't crossed the chasm it is popular among geeks and that is not a guarantee for a long term world beating success -- only guarantee. It only has what it is right now you need a value proposition in a distribution strategy and I don't think that they really have either of those like what we Chelsea. -- just -- like to thank you very much for coming in you can see his work and -- FaceBook which is a fantastic blog about tracking social networking in particular FaceBook. Erica -- own name is at MIT tech review a fantastic. Magazine and website. Four word. Really and everything innovation in technology I highly recommend thank you very much for joining us. Thanks everyone for watching this edition of reporters' roundtable we -- next week. A trying to do show on music since it's really a lot of really -- stuff happening in the music industry. That's the great guests come together on that watch my Twitter feed which is Rafe. My FaceBook fan page which is on line somewhere you can find it and my Google plus account which is -- middleman or. -- compliment just come back here in a week will be back then thanked several for watching.