The 404: Ep. 1266: Where our boss fights are anticlimactic
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The 404: Ep. 1266: Where our boss fights are anticlimactic33:06 /
Mark Licea jumps back into the guest seat today for a chat about Wolfenstein: New Order, a hack that gives you a spoiler-free Internet, and Nintendo's big problem in advance of E3.
-What's up, guys? It's May 8th. Isn't that amazing? -Crazy. -May 8th in New York City. We've got a great show for you planned today. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Jeff Bakalar. -I'm Justin Yu. -I'm Mark Licea. -I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez. -Mark Licea is here. You sound like a morning DJ. -Yeah. -Do I? -Or something like that. -I'm Mark Licea. -Yeah, I could listen to you on my-- -What's going on? -I could listen to you on my morning commute, I think. -Oh, cool. -Thanks for being here, man. -I can listen to you too. -Shut up. No one asks you. -Thanks for being here. -Thanks for having me. -We're trying to do this with somewhat regularity. -Compressed, yeah, we have to rush it because Justin has to get out of here even though he came late. -Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm going to a piano lesson later on. -Yeah. -So, when you're here, we're gonna talk about games because, you know, I'm kind of like into minority. -Yeah and that's what gets me going. -Right, and when you're not here. So, there's a few things going on. First thing, were you ever big Wolfenstein guy? Did you ever play Wolfenstein? -I was not. No. -I was in fact the Wolfenstein guy. -Whoa, I love you. -Wow. -Isn't that crazy? I know. I'm like excited about talking about this right now because I was a huge Wolfenstein 3D fan. -Right. -On my compact computer-- -Sure. -that I had in like '95 or something. -Right. -But I guess they're coming out with a new one after another 20 years. It's great. -Well, so the thing with this new Wolfenstein game and it's called The New Order. And first off, I don't know, like how many nazis can you kill in your lifetime. -Uh-hmm. -But they keep coming. -They keep coming back. I mean, I get it. Nazis are no different than zombies or vampires, as far as I'm concerned, because they've taken on this almost super natural vibe, where it's like they're not just a really, you know, group of easily brain-washed assholes. They're just what? -Now, quick question. Quick-- because I never-- I didn't hear about Wolfenstein until way after it was released. Was that during the same time as Doom? -Roughly. -Was there overlapping? It was-- -Oh, roughly. -It doesn't came after Doom. -I think was pre-Doom. -I wanna say it's before because it looks worse. -Okay. -Yeah. It was pretty bad. -And I feel like a dick not knowing that, but yeah, it's-- I'm pretty sure that was predated. -Because I played Doom but for some reason, yeah, Wolfenstein, it escape me. I never-- I was never aware of it. -Do you remember in Wolfenstein, there were these hidden rooms that you could access? And you know, like you would go through that and-- -You could just like walk through walls a little, right? -Well, you wouldn't walk through them if you just go-- went up to a brick wall and hit a space bar. You could maybe go into a hidden room and-- -Oh, I remember that. -you collect coins and like extra guns and stuff. -Yeah, I remember that. -So, I was like obsessed with finding every single room. -Right. -So, I would just go up to every wall and press the space bar. It became a very boring game for me after a while. It wasn't about killing nazis, -Yeah. -it's about finding those hidden rooms. -So, if you're curious, Doom made its debut December 10th, 1993 and Wolfenstein, the one that we're all referring to, the-- -3D. -3D one, that was 1992. -Okay. -It was Wolfenstein 3D, right? -Yeah. -That was-- -And that was a computer game. -That was May 5th. -Uh-hmm. -Was it in '92? -I played it on PC. -Okay. See, I lost-- I missed out in the whole computer game thing because my dad would always get the absolute cheapest on-sale computer that couldn't do anything. -Uh-hmm. -And so all my buddies would have, you know, Counter Strike and all these other cool games and great. -And you were just getting Wolfenstein? -And I had like Minesweeper or whatever. -Yeah. -Because my computer was crap. I love Minesweeper. -Yeah. -Minesweeper is surely bad ass too. -I hate to think that all those video games in that era all have 3D tacked onto the end of it, even though it totally wasn't in 3D. -No, but it was. -I mean, it kind of was compared to like-- -It was the-- -Wolfenstein is 3D. -Yeah. -Wolfenstein and then like Duke Nukem 3D, was sort of in 3D but it was just a side scrolling, right? -But it was the most-- no, it wasn't side scrolling. -It's first person? -Yeah. It was the most 3D you were getting at that time. -Yeah. -So, that was '92. Then Doom comes out '93 and for my money, blew it out of the water. And then, you know, I don't understand. Like I get it. Wolfenstein's got a good brand. It's a good sort of franchise but there hasn't really been awesome Wolfenstein games in the last 21 years since the original big Wolfenstein 3D release. There was a game-- -It was that one that came out when we were doing pregame, I think. -Yeah, there was one in '09 that was-- -And it wasn't very good. -It was bad. -Yeah. -I didn't like it. It was playable but it wasn't ground breaking. But you know, they're sort of redoing it now and but that does has a license and the developer is company called Machine Games. There's no real game play. It's planning on coming out the end of this year. Gonna hit next gen consoles and the current ones as well including, you know, PlayStation 4 and PC and all that good stuff. -We'll watch the trailer. -How do we feel about it-- -Just go ahead. -Yeah, let's watch the trailer and we could talk about it after. Here it is, the teaser trailer for Wolfenstein The New Order. Let's check it out. So, people are just listening to this. It's just like a fly-through of-- a 3D fly-through of like a drill crafting a logo essentially. -Yeah. -All that was gone. They set the world on fire. It wasn't a war anymore. It was a remaking. -Uh-huh. I get it. -Some losses are inevitable. Some are unthinkable. Now they built a new world. -Weird. -All right. And then Jimmy. -Army of Steel. -Oh, the song that wasn't around during this time, okay. -Vietnam war video. -Yeah. -They're rewriting history but they forgot about me. -All right. So, there you have it. The trailer for The New Order. -So-- -So, aside from the anachronistic music decision, you know, it's sort of like a retelling, it's like a reboot, right? So, the nazis now have like, you know, MEC power. Like, you know, and that's sort of what they were going for in the Wolfenstein remake that they did in '09 where they were forded like some weirdo kind of super power. It was like a-- that's the thing. Like all of these things sort of revolve around a paranormal nazi thing. -Yeah. -Well, you know the story but for some reason, I'm having an issue with teasers that don't do anything. They show all these fan fair and then-- -Well, that's why they're called teasers. -I know. -Yeah. -But I don't know. I prefer some sort of game play but-- -Yeah. -I don't know. Maybe people in the chatroom think that that's cool. -A lot of confusion. -That annoys me for some reason. -Some confusion in the chatroom over what we just saw. -Yeah. -I mean, if you're in-- people who are listening, you really didn't miss much. You can go to our website and check the trailer out for yourself and judge with your own eyes but there really isn't a lot going on there. -No. -And people are excited. I'm not that excited yet. You know, I gotta see it. And it's gonna be another shooter, so you really gotta, you know, you gotta somehow go against the green, to stand up between the-- amongst the Ether that is the first-person shooter market. So, we'll see. I can only kill so many nazis, not that I don't think they should all be killed over and over again. I'm just saying like, you know, I'd like a new enemy one of these days. But that's the deal. -But now they have tech powers, right? So, that's-- -Now they have tech powers. -So, here's from the press release that [unk] have sent out yesterday. We're excited to bring a new chapter of Wolfenstein to gamers everywhere. As fans of the series working on this game is an honor, and our team is driven to create an unforgettable action, adventure experience that will make first-person shooter fans proud. It's sounds like a retelling, you know, a reboot and alternate history sort of thing, re-imagining of the franchise, creating a gripping and dramatic experience. We'll see about that. -Did you ever finish the original Wolfenstein? -I don't remember. It was like 20 years ago. -I wanna know if at the end Hitler actually shows up. -I think that you kill Hitler. -I'm assuming that would be the final boss, right? -I guess. -YouTube teasers. -YouTube it. -Yeah, I'd like to know the ending of that. I never finished. -It would make no sense if-- yeah, don't you always hate when there's always a boss? And the boss takes like 48,000 bullets to kill? And it's like-- it's just a guy. You should just be able to shoot him once and he's dead. -Yeah. -You know what I mean? You're like, literally-- -What kind of satisfaction would you get from an end boss? -With one shot. -If you could-- -Took like two shots. -But if you could just walk up to Hitler with a gun and that's it, you win. You know, like when that'd be so much-- to me, that's more satisfying, rather than like super Hitler taken 48,000 rounds to the face being like, oh, it doesn't hurt that much. I don't know. -I think it'd be a little disappointing. I think that's a bit anti-climactic for the end of a big game, right? -Yeah, but now, there's really not-- there's a lot of games now that don't have these sort of epic boss pedals. There's almost like you just have to really survive a huge wave of enemies and then the final, you know, -Yeah, that's true. -crescendo with this somewhat anti-climactic event. -That's true. -Which I think is better, in my opinion, 'cause it's more believable. -That's more believable, you're right. That's true. -You know, and it's like yes, you would have to, you know, fight off a thousand nazis but then you just get rewarded at the end by just being able to pull the trigger once. -Yeah. -And kill it later. -Well, it makes sense because now they're doing things where like the bad guys in like a battleship, and so you're destroying the entire battleship. -Yeah, right. And then you get there. -And there's like the waves of enemies come from the battleship. -Right, right, exactly. -I'm looking for that. -I prefer that. -Yeah. It's like, where are all these people coming from? But you know, you gotta suspend your disbelief a little bit. -Sure. -Absolutely. So, there you have it. we'll talk more about The New Order, I guess after E3, Mark and I will be out there. It's just you and me, man. -I know. We just booked our flight yesterday. How many times do we call each other yesterday on the phone? Like-- -It was just funny 'cause you were like, you were like, oh-- -It's like I'm taking the 9:00 flight. -I'm like, got it, 10:00. -And then my phone rings [unk] like so, what flight are you taking? -Yeah. That's-- it's-- but you know, you wanna be able to go in the same flight, enjoy that. -No, no, no. -Right? -I feel like it fall-through with not so much stress. -Right. -I feel like we would travel well together but we'll see. -We'll see about that. -Yeah. -You've never been to E3 before, right? -No, my first year. -So, this is your first E3. -What a year-- -This is the-- -to go for the first time. -If you're gonna go to-- -In E3, this is the one to go to. -I know. -A lot of our team had to drop out because of the-- -WWDC. -The Apple event that's going on during the same time. -But then we have like a backup team. -We have like, yeah. -That time. -We have a nice backup team that I'm thrilled to be able to work with for the first time. -Oh, yeah. -So, it's gonna be fun. What are you looking forward to at E3? Because I'm gonna bring you along-- on my appointment. -I just wanna tag along with you and get as many game demos that include playing as chicks as much as I can. -Yeah, Mark. If you-- -So, yeah, we're gonna hit the floor and right away I'll be like, where's the games? -Yeah. -Where you play as chicks. -Where can I play as a woman? Finally. -And we'll go to like, you know, Dragon Age 3. Well, now Dragon Age 'cause you can choose your gender. So, never mind that but-- -And you thought I was nerdy. -I think that's really cool. I've never heard about anyone who insists on playing as female characters in games but I think that's awesome. -That's Mark. -Yeah. -Mark loves it. -Who's your favorite all-time female video game character? -Well, freshest in my mind, oh well, I just played Infinite and of course, Elizabeth. But you can't play as her, which was number complaint about the game. You should be able to replay the game as Elizabeth. -As her. That would make sense within the-- -I know. -narrative. -Yeah. -Because then you're like, oh, Bucker. -Yeah. Who am I rescuing? -Tell me what to do? -Yeah, who am I rescuing? Myself? That doesn't make sense. -But I don't know. I was a big [unk] fan but that didn't really-- that didn't really matter either 'cause you can just choose your gender. -Yeah. -But I don't know. I guess, yeah, the voice acting makes a huge difference in the voice acting and in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. -Sure. -Of course, I pick chicks in both games and it's awesome. -What about [unk]. -She's always in that suit, so you don't really know what her deal is until she takes it off at the end. Well, in the-- -The newer match or games-- -The Wii-- the-- -You could tell a woman now. -That's if it's the most recent, yeah. -They kinda give her womanly shapes. -Yeah, they gave her a female shell in front, yeah. -Yeah, they gave her like metal boobs and stuff. -But I like-- it's funny 'cause you said-- 'cause I made in efforts to start playing that game a lot more after I found out that it was a chick. -It's amazing, man. -I was like, who's this dude in this suit that like rose into a ball? -Well, that was like the ultimate twist. -Of course. -No one ever thought-- -Of course. I knew. -that it was gonna be a girl b cause we were very misogynistic culture of gamers back in the 80's. -I know. And I was like that is awesome. Now, I must play this game. -Yeah. I remember that code in the-- -Princess Peach. -Of course, I remember that-- well, she had a great game on the DS awhile back, remember that? There was-- what was that code? Oh, [unk] wrote it, Justin Bailey. Remember the Metroid code? You don't remember that? -No. -Oh, and you call yourself a freak. -Well, no. I'm saying I didn't get into the game until after-- -Yeah. -and so, that means like two generations of Metroid later on. -Speaking of Nintendo. I wanna bring up this article that was written in CNN Money on May 7th, yesterday. It talks about Nintendo's big ass problem and you have a-- I'm sure a great history with the company, right? -Of course. We love playing Nintendo. -You love playing it. I think the two people to my left and right can agree wit that as well. -For sure. -You guys grew up playing Nintendo. -Yes, indeed. -Justin is like, I have played it. -Once before yes. -I've seen it. I've held it. -And it sounds familiar. -It's sort of like this very bittersweet state of the union about the company. Starts off, for all its magnificent games and past successes, Nintendo has always been a little toned deaf when it comes to detecting and embracing new gaming trends, save for the Wii, which single-handedly change the industry forever. That brashness is finally catching up with the legendary video game company. Okay? Don't get it mistaken. If only sold 3.5 million units of the Wii U, which by the original Wii standards, it's pathetic. They couldn't keep this thing in stock when it came out in '06 and now you can buy a Wii U anywhere. So, it's a little disheartening, it's a little upsetting to see where the company is going. They have pulled out of E3 for over the big temple press conference. -Oh, wow. I didn't know that, really. -Yeah, you didn't know that. -No. That's crazy. -And so, they're not having a conventional-- -They're still gonna be there. -They're still gonna be there. -And they're still gonna have whatever, the games-- -I don't think we could fill many of it or anything like that but they are gonna be there but they're just gonna make it a very intimate thing now. When you say there's [unk] what does that really mean because the PR spins it like it's this exclusive intimate event with a very limited list that they're inviting but if you take a step back and say, hey, this is them saving money. -Yeah. -This is them not spending whatever half million bucks it cost to rent out the Nokia Theatre and not put on gigantic press conferences with all the laser lights and bells and whistles and whatnot. So, it's really a little upsetting because you don't know exactly what's happening. Don't forget as well, Nintendo is sitting on a lot of cash, like they are not in the poor house but it makes you kinda wonder like, oh man, this is-- that's a-- it's a major deal. If all of a sudden Sony or Microsoft dropped out of a press conference, people would be on high alert as well. -That's true. -It would definitely raise some red flags. -Yeah. -But yeah, that's the situation. So, I don't know. We'll see. -That's crazy. They always drew a pretty good show too. -Yeah. -I've been on a couple of them and they had like a full orchestra playing like all of the Nintendo Classics. -Yeah. -It was awesome, man. -Yeah. This-- -Plus it's having nothing huh. -Nothing. They're gonna have, you know, I think Shigeru Miyamoto is gonna talk. I think Reggie is obviously gonna talk and I just-- it's amazing how Reggie can keep spinning it in a positive life. -Yeah. -You know, he's still just like-- this is the best year we've ever had. -And it's just like, no dude. It's like the worst year, you know. But anyway, I like the guy. Hopefully they can right the ship. There's some compelling 3DS games coming up but Wii U, man. -I just can't quite figure out the gimmick of the Wii U. -Yeah, you're not the only one, dude. -Any of those-- yeah. It's-- -You know, there's a reason no one's buying this thing. -For sure. -There's-- and just a whole-- the back ends of this thing and the wait times and the loading times and just the alogical environment that exists on this platforms. -So, did you get a chance to play with the update? -Yeah. -And did it make a huge difference? Was it like-- -You want the truth? -Yeah. -Like 5 seconds. -Yeah. -Yeah, which is negligible as far as I'm concerned. -So, it's already right now with the update it's still worse than it was on the Wii. -Still very bad. Oh, yes. -Because the Wii was-- -The Wii was relatively zippy. -It was fast. -Yeah. Things are not good. Things are not good right now. -That's a sad-- -It's a sad time to be Nintendo right now but hopefully they'll make their way out of it. All right. I wanna move on for a bit. Justin has actually some really cool stories I think in this run down, that I wanna get to. -Yeah. -You pick it, man. I wanna get to as many as we can 'cause we also have voicemails and we will postpone this for tomorrow. -Well, actually, I'm gonna throw it back to you 'cause I wanna hear more about the Spotify problem that happened in the last 24 hours. -Okay. -Actually, I'm nota Spotify subscriber myself. -Right. -But I didn't know that you couldn't download songs previously. -Oh, yeah. Well, you could but you would do it within the environment of the Spotify app. -So, this is for like offline listening. -Right. So, this is-- what you can legally do. So, if you pay for Spotify, you can download songs to your Spotify app regardless of where it is and listen to them offline. -But you can't put that on your hard drive-- -No, you don't have access to the files that are sort of downloaded offline within the environment of Spotify. -Interesting. I'm not sure I understand that technology. -That's fine. Don't worry about it. -Yeah. -Don't worry your sweet little face about it. -That sounds cool. -Here's what you need to know, though. Yesterday, it came out that there was a Chrome extension that was allowing people to copy any music from Spotify's browser based player. So, if you've gone-- I think it's play.spotify.com. -The spotify have a free account where you can-- -They have a free one but you will get that ads. -Yeah. -You will be served ads. -And so, this Chrome-- -I'm not sure if the Chrome one was working with the free version of Spotify but it was working as I checked last night for myself. I was able to do it. -Oh. -Just a test, just a test. But it worked. -Like legitimately download the file and-- -Legitimately download 160 KB per quality file. So, I was doing it. I only did it for one song but I was just-- -As an MP3. -As an MP3 and I was just like, wow, this is really a gaping security flow right here. -Right. -And I-- you know, it's all patched up now according to Spotify but-- and I didn't know this until yesterday that they do have a web-based player. I don't believe everyone has access to it but it's really kind of awesome and almost completely mirrors the offline or standalone app experience. -Uh-hmm. -So, you can do that and it was-- it was so weird. You would install the plugin and all you have to do was play the song. -And it would just say-- -And a download dialog box came out. -Yeah. -And it would just let you save it. -I mean, you're talking about this all in past tense. So, I'm assuming they took that down. -It's done. It's over. Yeah, it's done. -And how long did that take? -I don't know. I think it took only a couple of hours. -Yeah. That's funny. -I wanna say within 12 hours. The second I read about the story, I tried it out when I was doing it. -Yeah, you know what's interesting is that the idea of ripping songs off either Flash based or even, you know places like SoundCloud, that's not a really new concept, right? I mean, you and I in the past for research purposes have used a site Off Liberty for a while and that basically lets you rip any song off of YouTube or SoundCloud. -You could download the video off YouTube. -You could download video off YouTube as well, yeah, either the MP3 sound file or the video file, -Right. -as an MKV I think. But for some reason, those continue to exist and Off Liberty has been around for a while. I wondered why Spotify for some reason cracked down. -I think because this is so easy. It just pops up. It's automatically an MP3. It's not like-- -Yeah. -if it's an MKV or whatever then you-- if you really want to, you can go and put it into a different converter and then you know, make it into an MP3. -Yeah. -But this is just like so easy that anyone that your grandma could download music for free. -If you really wanted to-- -You could do that with anything now. -Right, but if you really wanted to make the effort, you could record everything you listen to on Spotify. -Oh, yeah. -Yeah. -And you can place that on your computer. -Right. And it would sound relatively good. -Done that before. -I'm getting a little sort of not fed up with Spotify's quality, like I use extreme quality on everything. -Uh-hmm. -But it sounds good but you just know it doesn't sound as good as it possibly could, -Yeah. -which is a little disheartening. Anyway, that's something that, you know, lived and died yesterday. -Uh-hmm. -So, that was pretty interesting. -Yeah. I like that. -I really wanna get Andrew Mager back. -All right. -He's from Spotify and I think we're working on getting Shannon back as well, our Spotify girl. All right. Move-- what's up? -Oh, I was gonna make a transition. Let's talk about more Chrome extensions. -Yeah. -This one's really cool. So, yeah, have you ever watched a TV show the day after or a few days after the original air date on broadcast television? And you know, you're trying to avoid social networks in the meantime 'cause you don't wanna get any spoilers-- -Sure. -when you read them on Twitter or whatever review websites that pop up. -Yeah. -Well, there's actually a Chrome extension that's out right now. It's called Twivo, that lets people Basically censor their Twitter feeds by entering in certain keywords or just a straight up name of the program you're trying to avoid. -That's cool. -And that will then sort of scrub all mentions of that keyboard from your Twitter feed for a certain amount of time that you designate, which is a great idea but what's even cooler is that this is actually created by a 17-year-old girl, -Oh, wow. -at Hackathon last month. -So, does it just censor out the entire tweet altogether? So, any tweet that has like, I don't know. -Game of Thrones. -Yeah. -Yeah, for example. -So, if you typed in Game of Thrones and any tweet that had any mention and within the context to the show which is scrubbed out. -Yeah, yeah. That's exactly it. -I think-- do they have something for that with-- I don't know if it was the Super Bowl or what was it? -I'm not sure. There's been extensions in the past that replace like pictures of things you don't wanna see with like pictures of cats and-- -Yeah. -stuff like that. I've seen that before. -But there were some sort of like anti spoiler filter that you could use in I don't know if it was Twitter or what and I don't-- the name escapes me right now, but anyway, that's awesome that she's 17. -Yeah, yeah. This is really cool. So, for her that's kick ass. -Her name is Jennie Lamere. She's a 17-year-old girl. She actually entered last month's TVnext Hack event in Boston, that was on April 27th. There were 80 other competitors and all 79 of the other competitors were male. -Oh, wow. -She was the only female there. She's also the youngest. -And she won this for Twivo. -And she won the grand prize for Twivo. -How much did she win? -It wasn't a cash prize. I think it was an Apple TV and a laptop. -Sick. -So, she won that. It's really cool. She's a high school senior in New Hampshire. Next year she's gonna enter the Rochester Institute of Technology. -Oh, good for her. -Yeah. -Really good for her. This is really good because it deals with something that everyone is in some way, shape or form think about it. Sucks. Right? The worst now is with sports because there's so much playoffs going on. And I'm flipping back and forth, between a bunch of hockey games and then if I'm on Twitter, I hear-- I read it right before I see the goal or something like that. -Right. -And I don't wanna get spoiled by that. -Are you sure? -So, I'm sure this technology could be applied to anything, not just, you know, ruining Game of Thrones stuff. -You know, even looking beyond spoilers for entertainment value, I kinda wish that sometimes, Twitter would group topics together. I guess the only way you could do that is with hash tags but, you know, sometimes, something will happen like, I don't know, like yesterdays, like abduction or whatever. That news came out and I saw maybe 200 people post that video of the guy that was interviewed after the neighbor, you know what I'm talking about? -Yeah. -And after a while, it's like, okay, this is clogging my feet. -Yeah. -I kinda wish that Twitter had some kind of algorithm that group all that stuff together. -Just can dense some. -And like, look, all these people tweeted about this one topic just a click here and that's it. -I'll happen. It's gonna happen. I promise you. -Yeah. -That's a good idea. We can either just filter it in or exclude that topic altogether. -I promise, I promise you that's been the worse. -Yes. -It's just such a logical thing to do. -Yeah. -You know, it's coming. -I can't wait for that. -So, disregarding this whole Twivo thing, do you guys ever have to experience where you, like you said, you're watching a hockey game or whatever and then you see a tweet before you've watched it. Do you just automatically see that they're talking about that and you, you know, scroll down and not look away? Are you like must-read spoiler. -And we're just going through like self-control things, right? -Yeah. -It's a good question because I have like-- I have a similar issue when I'm on Reddit and I see like an NSFW thing that I know is gonna be terrible but I-- my hand is just like a-- -Oh, that's different from a spoiler. -Four steps ahead of my brain. No, I know-- -Not safe for work is like please click on me-- -Yeah for sure. -It's paying you, it's paying you. -at work while your boss is behind you. -Yeah, 2500 miles away. I-- more often than that, I'm able to look away. -Yeah. -I'm learning that having the laptop TV tandem is really not the best thing in the world. -What do you mean? You're over watching TV and you're surfing? -Like I-- more often than that, I'm watching television with a laptop in my, you know, in my lap, -Yeah. -which is, I don't know. What the hell have we become, man? -Oh, no, because you're not really concentrating on the game, right? -It's just like so absurd. It's-- -Yeah. -Like you know what it is-- -But you know, when I do that, I'm like, what am I doing? I just missed like a very important part in the plot, this TV show. -Uh-hmm. -And then do then like rewind it on your DVR after. -Yeah. -And waste precious time. -It sounds like a lot of hassle. -I just-- I don't know. You think about like the classic, you know, gathering around the radio sort of thing. Who was that artist that used to draw all that stuff? He used to do the cover of that magazine, going completely over your head and I can't remember, I can't remember. -You mean in like what, the 20's or whatever here? -You know, in the 40's and stuff or before that, you know, and people gathering and now we're just like we've got 19 screens around us [unk]. -I was having a conversation with my dad about this, which was kind of interesting. Well, I don't wanna go into it too, too much. -Go into it, man. -But-- I know it's just interesting how there was not really much of a clearly defined American Culture and so we were kind of you know, looking to like television shows that had this perfect idea of a family and so many people didn't fit into that and you know, there is no such thing as a perfect family that-- -Yeah. -I think it, you know, it made a lot of people repressed and now it's so different because all of that stuff, all of the imperfections that we tried to hide so many years ago, now it's almost like considered a co-worker. Not necessarily cool but I think there's like a strength in exploiting that now that I don't know. I can't imagine living during that time because there's no such thing as perfect person and I'm pretty sure because a lot of people were basing their experiences off of what they saw being the ideal situation on TV and not fitting into that. That must be horrible, you know. -Yeah. -Uh-hmm. -Yeah, it's tough to put yourself in that kind of, you know, environment. -Yeah. But I mean, there was no or maybe there was but I'm guessing like in the 30's or 40's, whatever, there weren't too many TV shows or movies about, you know, being gay or cheating on your wife and having this like weird socially unacceptable situation-- -Yes. -that maybe could turn out to be something great if you gave it enough time but it was just automatically like cut off right at the idea of socially unacceptable. And that's just really interesting and now we have everything and everyone plugged into this consciousness that's-- I don't know. -Yeah. -It's so different. -For sure. -Yeah and pretty deep, man. -Yeah but I knew exactly what I said. -But you're right, but you're right. -Yeah, -You're 100% right. -I remember like, you know, on a TGIF, like in the 90's. I remember that like blowing in my mind 'cause like, you know, a show that's as silly as step-by-step like, and its core that relate to families that are subjects of divorce. -Yeah. -Like my parents got divorced around the same time when that show came out. -Yeah and you've seen it and you're like, you know what, it's okay. -And I see that on the screen, I was like, oh, whoa, like our families aren't living together, that's pretty weird. -It's not that big of a deal. -But you know, the fact that they're able to like joke around and have the other problems Besides this big one, -Yeah. -was really comforting for me, same-- -Full House too, man. -Uh-hmm. -Full House was a mess. -Yeah. -All right. Their family, they're a mess. Three father figures in a house of just girls. It was kind of odd at some point. -Yeah. -But you know, they always made it work. -Yeah. -And it was totally normal. The artist I was talking about was Norman Rockwell. How he used to paint and get on like all-time American stuff he was creating all the scenarios on the cover of the Saturday evening post. -Uh-hmm. -I was actually at the Norman Rockwell Museum a couple of years back in Massachusetts. -Yeah. -You should go and see that. -Do you ever get this feeling of nostalgia when you see that even though you've never experienced that yourself? And you just kinda stare and you're like-- -Well, it's just so-- he died before I was even born. So, he's-- you know, any of us were born and he was portraying these, you know, portraits of American life that come off at this very simple time. -Yeah. -And its' just literally light years away from where we are now. -I know. It's almost like-- -It's crazy. -even though it's less than 100 years ago, it seems like it's thousand. Not only years ago but like on a different planet somewhere. -Yeah. -Which is crazy, man. -And you would like to think that with all this technology it's made life better and I'm-- it has in so many different ways but I feel like there's a compromise that people don't really pick up on-- it said, the thing is, though, and I'm a-- and we're really going down the rabbit hole but I think like, you know, terrible shits have been going on forever. -Yeah. -We're just getting-- -We're just more aware of it. -We're just getting completely unfiltered access to it now. -Yeah. -Yeah. -You know, like-- -And I'm sorry that's an opinion. -You would not have enjoyed being a child in the 1500's like it just doesn't sound like, you know, like if you saw that all-- it's definitely worse, right? -Oh, yeah. -That you know, think about that. And we're like, what went on in 1100? -But in fact there's something that comes from when you don't know what you're missing, you kind of-- -Ignorance is bliss. -Yeah. -Man, oh man. We're getting deep there. -Yeah. -We're in it. -What happened? -Yeah. -What's going on? -Twitter, man. -It really was-- -He was talking about not missing TV show spoilers on Twitter. -Yeah, right. And then somehow we got good conversation. -I said before why maybe I shouldn't get into this. -Yeah. -And then-- -I don't know. -And it happened. -Look, pumping gas into the studio right now. -I don't-- -Yeah. It's getting crazy. Unfortunately-- -We're the best, man. -We don't even have a time. -Yeah. -I don't wanna get depressed. So, we can't leave this on a depressing note. -It's not depressing. -It's not depressing. -I think it's just interesting. I think-- -It's a social analytical experiment as what it is. -Yeah. -But we're here to make sense of it all and we'll continue moving that fight forward. All right? Is that a somewhat positive way to end things? -Yes. -I think so. -Yes. -Hey, Mark. Hey, Mark. -Yo. -Thanks for being here, man. -No problem. Anytime. -It's always a lot of fun when you're here. I'm sorry we could only do, you know, a couple of minutes with you here but you'll be back next week hopefully. -Yeah. -All right. Rock and roll. -Yeah. -We're back here tomorrow. I think Bridget might be on, depending on where we're going with the day. -Hopefully. Yeah. -And it sounds like, save yourselves, just talk about video games. Well, we did. We did a nice video games chat in the beginning half of the program. -It was a good balance. Good balance. -We'll get to voicemails and e-mails and all that stuff tomorrow. So, don't worry if you sent in a voicemail. Odds are you'll hear it in about 24 hours, 866-404-CNET. E-mail us firstname.lastname@example.org. The race to a thousand Reddit subscribers continues. We're closed. We're at like 9:20 now. -Uh-hmm. -Let's do that. Let's do that this summer. Get on that. Go to reddit.com/r/the404. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, you know the deal. Just do it. All right. Make us happy, will you please? That's gonna do for us. We'll see you tomorrow. I'm Jeff Bakalar. -I'm Justin Yu. -I'm Mark Licea. -I'm Ariel NuÃ±ez. -This has been The 404 Show. Thanks again to Mark Licea for joining the program today. We're back tomorrow. See you guys.