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Microsoft vs third-party vendors...
The thing to keep in mind here is that Microsoft is responsible for Vista, not third-party software and drivers.
* AOL doesn't work? Yell at Time Warner for not updating their software to work with the latest OS.
* The AT&T security suite doesn't install? Yell at AT&T for not updating their software to work with the latest OS.
* Your video card doesn't work properly? Yell at Nvidia/ATI/Intel/SiS for not updating their drivers to work with the latest OS.
Vista has been in the beta stages for quite some time, and readily available to the third-party developers. Microsoft can't help it if others sit on their butts and neglect updating their software until long after Vista ships. Vista has some known problems, but don't blame Microsoft for the problems of others.
P.S. Just for reference, there are millions of people with computers that cannot be seemlessly upgraded to XP due to compatibility and/or performance issues. If it were Microsoft's job to ensure seemless upgrades before releasing the OS, XP would still be in Microsoft's storage closet, waiting for its debut.
Totally agree, John
It is not the fault of Microsoft that the computer, hardware and software venders dragged their feet for the past 6 months with Vista.
I spent 90 minutes on the phone this morning with HP trying to get an answer about drivers and sofware for an HP scanner. All I wanted was to see if they could give me an approximate time when they would be availble.
I was transferred to a total of 7 people and never got the answer. The only lady I could really understand and spoke English said they weren't trained on Vista yet?? what is that telling you.
One person tried to sell me a new scanner. Another said it was a Microsoft issue and another even gave me a Microsoft phone number saying they had to supply the driver and software for a HP scanner? Ya right!
Vista is a great program the harware and software venders is the problem.
I agree 100% Good post after the negatives!
some software not supported in vista,how to down lode the vista compatible software
You bet your a@# Micro$oft is to blame!
The most remearkable thing here is how determined some people are to blinker themselves to Micro$oft's shortcomings. I suppose it's hard to admit to yourself that you've made the wrong "operating system" choice when it has cost you so much over the years.
Yes, you can argue that third parties aren't doing enough, but if it's all on them, why haven't we seen this degree of problems with other operating systems? Micro$oft, deliberately or otherwise, makes it difficult for third parties to develop and/or release their drivers and other software. Micro$oft (yet again) brought a product to market that was clearly not ready for release, just so they didn't miss another arbitrary deadline. Micro$oft is working for its shareholders, not its customers. The shareholders want money. The customers have money. In the most extreme cases, the customers are all but enslaved by Micro$oft.
This may evoke some harsh responses, but I'm pretty sure that it'll mostly be a case of "truth hurts".
I agree but will go one step farther. Microsoft never make sure their software programs are completely compatable or even easy to install. I crashed my computer trying to install even service pack 2 so I could upgrade, I don't think Micro will reimburse me for the fixit shop costs. Not all users are techs. They should spend more time making sure things work and quit worrying whether they are top dog and have to get in ahead of any one else. They seem to have bugs in all their programs????juniperbug
Microsoft is NOT to blame
It amazes me how much the industry has blinded itself on the real issues by slapping at Microsoft every chance there is. I'm not a MS fanatic but I do use their worthwhile products, as well as those from many other companies. I also use Linux. I have been using Vista 32 & 64 since RC1 & have had almost NO trouble. No install problems & NO hardware problems. Everyone keeps focusing on how to keep windows compatible with the existing software and hardware & this is where I feel we are "missing the boat". For those people who want to keep their old, outdated and underfeatured software/hardware, MS (& many others) are ready to sell millions of copies of older versions since all the R&D is finished - it's all profit. What we as an industry SHOULD be focused on is the power user & bleeding edge enthusiasts. I wouldn't spend millions of dollars to keep my product compatible with people who aren't even spending their money anyway (aside from the cost of the OS). If you WANT the old hardware and programs... KEEP XP, or whatever other outdated version of OS works with it. I SPEND MONEY! I want someone to remember ME. I don't care if the old hardware & software don't work with the new OS (I wouldn't keep the seats from my old car to put in my new one!), I want new hardware & software! I want more features & gadgets. Why am I among the forgotten sufferers when I SPEND money for the NEW? We as a society still expect fast food from our PC's (a burger for a buck - get REAL!) I run 4 Dell Precision 380's with 3GHz dual cores & 2GB or more ram; two are 32-bit & two are 64-bit (besides our servers); I use Raid 0 for speed on the boot drive & Raid 5 on the data drive. I am the kind of person your companies want to sell to yet I'm the guy you think of LAST, if at all. My anti-virus works fine with Vista. My Roxio works fine! My Paint Shop works fine! So do all my other apps; if an app doesn't work I buy a new one - I don't blame MS, at least THEY thought of me (a little bit). Just for the record, I have three Dimension 8400's that have been running XP since Dell released them & they have NEVER crashed. If your company has 1000 PCs & can't afford all new... Use hardware firewalls to protect them (it's cheaper) & keep what you've got. The other vendors will NOT make an effort to make their products compatible if we keep screaming at MS; why should they - you keep giving them money not to?
Yes yes yes!!
Welcome to the era of 256MB graphics cards and 2GB configurations minimum. XP was 5 years old and it's nice to have a new OS that can finally begin to take full advantage of the outrageous hardware performance gains made in that timeframe. Vendors have had plenty of time to prepare for Vista and they have clearly dropped the ball. Microsofts only blame is not applying stricter standards to upgrade adviser and supplying support and contact information for the vendors of those drivers.
Drivers for their own products.
I am the "proud" owner of a MICROSOFT keyboard w/ fingerprint reader. I have installed Vista Business 64-bit on a new machine I have built. Still no 64-bit drivers for the fingerprint reader. This IS a case where Microsoft has dropped the ball. Dont you think they should provide drivers to make sure their own products work?
You are Sooo right!
We've been using XP in our company's computers for a long time and try to keep our systems updated as best as we can. We were using MS Office 2003 on XP with no problems. Now, we got two new laptops with vista to test the software out and guest what? Not even talking about our third party software having problems, but Office 2003! Thats a Microsoft program. I've had to reinstalled it on this laptop 3 times and on the other laptop, I just reinstalled it a second time. When you call tech support, they simply say "Upgrade to Office 2007", what in the world is that? THey knew what they were doing. They knew if they come up with a new OS thats not compatible with anything, eventually they would make more money on the other MS program as well. They are doing it to all their programs. For example, MS Money. If you own an older version of MS Money basic and try to upgrade to MS Money 2007 basic, it tells you that you can't convert your files. That you have to buy the more expensive Money 2007 Pro. They knew what they were doing. Now, if you buy a new computer, you can't even get XP on it. They all come with Vista. What about those loyal XP customers that just want to upgrade hardware? And this is where I blame computer manufacturers (of course being pressured by MS). When a new OS is out, the cunsumer should have the option to choose what OS they want on their hardware. Not being forced to buy Vista thats not compatible with nothing. I may use Vista at work, but I'm sticking with XP at home. I'm not buying all new hardware if the old one still works.
Micro$oft office xp standard 2002
Outlook freezes on about 10% of e-mails with attachments. But I can log on to MSN and open the e-mail and attachments. Micro$oft support tell me to upgrade to office 2007.
RE: Office XP Standard
Upgrade to 2007 or at the very least 2003. Office XP was released *prior* to the retail XP operating system, making it approximately 6+ years old. With two upgrades released for the app between then and now, it would be common sense to come at least halfway closer if not fully. Most people would have logically done so whether their version of Office XP was encountering problems or not.
People need to realize that they can't expect to cling to a favorite version or piece of software forever while everything else hard and software-wise moves forward around it. There comes a time where time marches on. Your options: remain stationary and risk the issues you've mentioned, or move forward with the rest of us.
My name is Bill. Send me more money.
Exactly right.. I have found that to be true as well.
Only in my case its windows xp 64 bit edition. I see they have drivers out for xp 32 and vista 64 and 32. wish I could remember what that was for.. probably their debut software for antivirus.
I had to work on a vista laptop brand new and I must say I was distinctly disapointed.. Felt like I was starting over cold turkey with windows after working in DOS for years.. All that fluff on top is defintily not worth it. At least XP let you go back to classic menues and stuff. So far Vista's classic options are too few and dont really look all that classic. And that's with 2 gigs of ram and a nice dualcore processor.
Vendors are the problem
HP is a great example of a major vendor failing miserably to support their products. It took HP nearly a year to come up with XP compatible drivers for their printers and even though they've had plenty of notice (like the entire length of the delay in Vista release) they still don't have Vista drivers for their printers. Can't blame that on Microsoft!
My Vista found a basic driver for my HP printer but they still don't have the software I need for printer assistant etc. Worse than that is I have an HP 3570c Scanner and even though Vista found it's basic driver, I can't use the scanner buttons and have been told by HP that there will be no Vista software made available at anytine. Now I have a good scanner that can't be used other than to use Windows gallery to make it do a basic scan. Needless to say, I will be very reluctant to replace it with another HP Scanner.
vendors are the problem
I run my own computer business and I hear this sort of thing all the time, people want to blame Microsoft, since they made the operating system, I used to think the same thing when I was younger. Until somebody told me that Microsoft wasn't to blame. A lot of 3rd party company's like to be slow at things. With my system I have no hardware incompatibilities. My video card is a Nvidia. They had drivers for vista since the beta. Even my old adaptec 2940 scsi card has a vista driver, which I had to download. My hp scanner was not supported, and they never updated the drivers for vista, so I bought a all in one. Which was supported in vista.
Microsoft does have to get on the ball with their own stuff though as well. Their MSN internet software is not supported under vista, and vista has been out since jan 30. They are already 2 months late.
My web address is: www.bsmithcomp.com
Just Buy New Software
Sounds like a fine idea - IF IT WERE OUT THERE. If you work in the technical fields like Engineering etc. you will find that there are NOT new packages of software to BUY. We would buy it if it were there. And since the types of programs we are using are not compatible with another "less than ready" version of Windows we will continue to use what we have. It isn't a matter of NOT WANTING to buy new software - it IS a matter of Microsoft putting all the little guys out of business that develop software for these technical fields. In the last 15 years of this business I have seen it happen over and over - what does Microsoft due - just go to the Bank.
Haven;t got that far yet
My Vista still does not work.....still booting to a black screen with cursor......after 3 weeks with micorsoft tech support on the phone, 2 different versions, a complete reformat of the hard drive, all drivers updated, all aftermarket parts pulled off, BIOS flashing, etc... Only thing that works is boot from DVD but then it will not let you select "upgrade" and you will have activation issues in 30 days. (been there done that)
But I guess it's on me to make sure my computer works with Vista....oh but wait I did get an overall score of 5.2 on their compatability check with no issues.....
I don't know what Apple customer servie is like but Microsoft is about to loose me forever.
I agree, in a weird sort of way.
Yes, Microsoft makes Vista, not all the 3rd party drivers. But we have seen over and over again how MicroSoft actually tries to break drivers to keep those very 3rd party people in line. Lies, threats, and broken software is part of business as usual. Disagree? US Govt vs Microsoft. MIcrosoft Guilty. Nuff said.
But, I agree that if you bought the cheapest thing out there and now the fancy stuff does not work, you should be willing to upgrade. But I would suggest you take this time to upgrade properly and go Apple Mac.
Get a good system that can run windows XP or Vista natively and if you get tired of windows kicking you can, you just switch to Mac software and join those of us who can stick out our tounges and wave out fingers at MS.
Your choice, I agree totally and you should be happy with which ever way you choose to go. ((ps 115,000 viruses to 0 ) spyware does not work on Macs, etc. OH, yes, I am using equipment that is years old and 3 generations of hardware and 5 generations of software just fine thank you. )
Finally... Someone who can see through the anti-vista hype
I completely agree with this - it is NOT up to Microsoft to make sure all the old stuff works with Vista, or, for that matter, any stuff works eith the OS. Microsoft makes the OS, the other companies make the parts - its up to them to make sure they work correctly. I have vista on my laptop, and I have had no problems. I love it! I recently upgraded an older computer to Vista - here's where the problems start. I had a TV tuner that was not compatible with Vista, so, no problem, I took it out. I then upgrade to Vista, to find out I have no sound - the sound card's driver doesn't work with Vista. I don't get mad at Microsoft, however. I get mad at the sound card company. They don't make new drivers for it - they are the ones that make it, so make sure it will actually work! I am going to buy a new sound card (not from that company - I'm done with them) and install additional RAM, so I can run Vista smoothly. I love vista... I will upgrade all my computer parts to run it rather than XP... its worth it.
It may be anit vista, but its not hype.
For a comparison, intel and amd have gone through a lot of trouble to make sure that their processors are compatable with all software back to the 16 bit era and in a lot of cases the 8 bit stuff works too. This last poster must have a lot of money to buy this and that just to work with vista. Vista is an "operating system" and should let your computer "operate" rather than break it and making you buy all new stuff. Unfortunatly thats what microsoft wants. They want to put out another new standard to force people to upgrade to their new software and in the meantime they made all your hardware useless. Gee thanks microsoft! Like I said, if Intel and Amd can do it, microsoft can too. For many, the reason for not jumping to linux was that there did not seem to be enough driver support. Well, now vista is worse than linux in that respect. Microsoft has a blatent disregard for their customers needs. They already have the code developed to work with the old drivers, its called xp. Its just code so why not copy and paste it into vista????? its that simple. The driver breaking was on purpose. Now microsoft has more control over the industry, give driver secrets to their buddies....
Vista drivers are different for a good reason.
Vista code has been revamped to keep drivers out of the system kernel. It results in a more stable OS but complicates upgrades.
So you obviously happy to continue to find new drivers
You're sadly mistaken about "new" products...
Otherwise you're just in some other league - i.e. moneywise.
I cant afford to continuously upgrade everything.
I have a perfectly workind harmonious system, and all my addons work, scanners, cameras, screens, external USB devices external hard disc drives, ... inside the PC, there are capture devices, working on firewire, Bluetooth, wireless LAN, etc....
I am happy with the XP as it O.S.... If I decide to believe that the new O.S. Vista is that good... with all their hype... then I WILL NOT EXPECT anyone (including you - kind sir) to tell me that I "have to" go elsewhere to seek a whole new set of drivers, just to ensure that my entire array of working tools has to be changed to be able to "continue" using these trusted tools and devices... simply because whoever "developed" Vista HASNT INCLUDED in it's new O.S. package ALL of the currently available sets of device drivers ...
By the way the last statement has to do with something called compatibility, if this word is used anywhere in MIcrosoft's claims, then the VISTA product will have just commited a fraudulent claim... meaning it's a federal offence in some countries, and its simply fraud in UK....
Not everyone can afford to continuously replace a tuner which was working yesterday with the XP sysytem, but today (as you said you did) it gets replaced, because the Vista O.S. doesnt recognise it... maybe I am in the minority - but do any of you guys out there - replace everything which doesnt work, after you have just installed a new piece of software.. O.S. or otherwise.... hmmmmm - so, err, friends_rulz, err... can I borrow a couple of thousand bucks from you please? - I have this problem, that I dont think my capture card will like it when I install the VISTA O.S..... you think it's the right solution for my new O.S. compatibility problem ? I will replace everything from hereon, as that's gonna cost, maybe you can lend me some money to do just that?.... think about it rich boy?
Funny Stuff here
In a Way Micro$oft is to blame.On many occasions MS didnt even want to provide the right tools to third party people to make their progs compatible with Vista,afraid that they wouldnt get the whole slice of pie.Sure Vista has been in developement for quite some time now and Vendors have had the chance to work with MS to make their stuff work right,but as we all know MS scraped Vista completly and started over fresh,and i hear it was pretty much almost done,hows that for NOT blameing Micro$oft.And for people who DONT have Money to burn,not everyone wants a complete whole new system just to switch to a new OS,and Buy all new versions of software.Kudos for you if you do,but thats just what MS wants,if people that are upgadeing instead of buying complete new hardware and software rally together it might ease some of the frustrations. I suppose we have to look forward to the next OS in the same way..Microsoft not to blame?? well it is their OS and they did take forever to release their OS and wouldnt even provide support to third-party vendors.
Going for the whole pie backfired years ago.
It was a harsh lesson for Apple that almost drove them out of business. MS figured out pretty quickly that to do so was throwing away their main advantage, application availability. It's a move we're not likely to see again.
Maybe this is a dumb question..
.. but if you had a computer that works fine with windows xp.. why would you run out and dump hundreds of dollars into a new OS?? that seems really dumb to me. The only time ive ever upgraded to a new OS is when im upgrading my system, or when Im buying a whole new system. Also, looks whats happened in the past with products. People run out and buy things when they first come out. There is always bugs in things and compatability issues when things are new. Do you think microsoft sits there and tests every possible aftermarket product with its OS? no! why would they? theres too many to check! I think we as consumers know this. NOTHING WORKS PERFECT WHEN IT FIRST COMES OUT! Theres always bugs.. and in a sence, if you run out to buy a brand new OS when your older one is working just fine, its your own fault.
Maybe I should forget Vista for now
We need a new computer. It's not in my budget, and I have been putting it off. Single mom, mortgage, car payment..et...But I was planning on buying one anyway. If I also have to go out & buy everything else new because of Vista's compatibility issues. I don't want it installed. It doesn't matter to me who is to blame and how GREAT Vista is. Thank you very much, but I'll pass until this is figured out. With the current state of our economy I'm sure there is a majority of people who feel the same way. I just hope the sales reps inform people before they purchase their new computers.
ps...I believe, sad but true, bottom line, mircrosoft really doesn't care one way or the other, they got their product finally out..stock prices went up and most hardware & software manufactures, would prefer us to to purchase new updated products rather then download a driver for compatibility.
Do yourself a favor, and unless you have to run specific windows apps, get a Mac. At least look into it. Every single Mac user I know absolutely loves them.
Except for ones like me......
...who found OSX less stable than XP, Mac hardware repeatedly faulty, and Apple support terrible.
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