Headphones & Mp3 Players forum

General discussion

Why would anybody buy the New 8GB iPod Nano?

by jpr / September 12, 2006 8:53 AM PDT

My question is: Why would anybody get the new 8GB iPod Nano when they can get the iPod video for the SAME PRICE? The video has a bigger screen, ability to play vids and movies, ability to play games (Downloadable ones) and such...The only reason I can think of one would buy the Nano is because it's smaller, has better battery life, or they don't want to watch videos. (But who dosen't?)
Strange move by Apple...
Also, I'm thinking I should get a video to replace my Gold First-Gen Mini. The battery only lasts one hour now and it can't fully charge.....
In other news, iTunes 7 rocks!
Is the updated video now called the 5.5G iPod?

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for some reasons
by chastay / September 13, 2006 12:10 PM PDT

though they are the same price, the flash powered nano is more reliable and hardier than the ipod video because of its lack of moving parts. this is a major plus for those who enjoy listening to their tunes on the go ar at the gym. personally i prefer other mp3 player such as the sansa e200 series just because apple has a lock on the market (that's just my style)

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windows MP3 player
by dastarwarsnerd / September 15, 2006 9:39 AM PDT
In reply to: for some reasons

so your happy for windows grab at the mp3 market with there new "Zune" huh?

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Poor Feature Set
by tubemonkey / September 13, 2006 5:20 PM PDT

The problems with iPods in general are the lack of features that are standard in other MP3 players. So if you're considering a nano, but want FM and recording, you need to add the price of these accessories to that of the nano. At this point, the nano is no longer competitively priced. Additionally, it's small form factor is lost and the nano is now substantially larger than the competition.

Personally, an MP3 player without FM isn't even worth considering.

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necessary features?
by bevillan / September 14, 2006 1:00 AM PDT
In reply to: Poor Feature Set

I agree that FM is nice to have, but most people use their mp3 players to listen to their own music, not a radio station with commercials.

Also, Apple products are superior in user interface and aesthetics. The new color nanos with aluminum casings look very nice and you know that the pink nano is probably THE biggest selling mp3 player for women who almost use them as an accessory to their look these days.

I have had the 2nd gen green mini since 2003 and it still had good battery life (~14 hours) and I have never had a problem with it. Apple may not offer all the little extraneous features that other mp3 players offer, but they definitely dominate the competition in the "cool factor" and have the best interface of any player.

I would never buy the 8GB player since for another $50 I could have the Ipod video, but the 4GB color nanos are definitely a tempting purchase.

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To Each His Own
by tubemonkey / September 14, 2006 1:53 AM PDT
In reply to: necessary features?

I use an MP3 player for both. Kinda hard to do when the unit lacks FM. It's nice to vary what you're listening to without having to download a new play list; especially when you're traveling and far from your computer. Additionally, try tuning in to the TV's at the gym with an iPod.

So, if these aren't necessary features, then why do Apple and third-party vendors sell them as add-ons? The cool factor is now gone due to added bulk and price.

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why not FM?
by payshunz / September 17, 2006 4:28 AM PDT
In reply to: To Each His Own

''So, if these aren't necessary features, then why do Apple and third-party vendors sell them as add-ons? The cool factor is now gone due to added bulk and price...''

They're probably sold as add-ons simply because not that many people need or want FM. Sure, enough to warrant 3-rd party add-ons, but not enough to convince Apple to add it on. The ability to store thousands of music tracks AND the choice of yet more THOUSANDS of podcasts obviate the need for FM for me.

One person's 'added bulk and price' are ''wider screen, more memory, longer battery life for the same price'' to others. And 'cool factor'? Still has it, always will.

I just find it hilarious that someone doesn't like an iPod MP3 player because they can't natively play FM on it!

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reply
by ackmondual / September 17, 2006 5:59 AM PDT
In reply to: why not FM?

and yet, many others are disappointed b/c of just that

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valid reason to reject iPods
by tubemonkey / September 18, 2006 11:01 AM PDT
In reply to: why not FM?

Hilarious or not, it's a valid reason to reject iPods. FM is a must have feature for me. I need it for the gym and for traveling.

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Actually....
by jpr / September 14, 2006 10:23 AM PDT
In reply to: necessary features?

You said "I would never buy the 8GB player since for another $50 I could have the Ipod video"

The 8GB Nano is the SAME price as the Video. Not $50 more.

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ipod's "superior UI"
by singularity--2008 / September 14, 2006 2:17 PM PDT
In reply to: necessary features?

I love all the arguments about ipod's superior UI
It's not even their's, they stole it, creative has a patent on it.

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i hear a violin playing in the distance
by bevillan / September 15, 2006 3:47 AM PDT
In reply to: ipod's "superior UI"

cry me a river...

Apple utilized it perfectly, Creative's loss.

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Actually...
by DonMB / September 15, 2006 5:12 AM PDT

... it's Creative's gain, since Apple settled the lawsuit in Creative's favor.

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actually actually......
by naterandrews / September 16, 2006 9:11 AM PDT
In reply to: Actually...

in the settlement, Creative will now support the iPod ecosystem with the introduction of Creative branded accessories. So, no, it helps Apple more than the measly $100m settlement Creative will (unsurprisingly) blow on their Zen lineup.

Creative gets $100m.

Apple gets a new partner to sell yet more iPod crap, therein helping to sell some more iPods.

You go Emporer Steve.

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Even so
by naterandrews / September 16, 2006 8:58 AM PDT
In reply to: ipod's "superior UI"

It is distinctly different. Apple doesnt clutter theirs with shortcut keys and make you say "yes I really wanted to play the song that I chose to play". No, Apples' iPod interface is very different from that of the Creative players.

It is so much better, that, you can use it with one hand. They don't need to have buttons on both sides of the device (my Zen Xtra) or even on the front also (Zen Vision M). Apple has mastered the interface so it isn't cluttered and clunky. It scrolls through songs smoothly, and allows you to add songs on the fly (instead of having to add them to the now playing list by first selecting the song, then clicking it, then saying, sure ill add it to the now playing list- same steps to even play a damn song). Apple has made it SO easy, that, in fact, you can add a song to the playlist using ONE BUTTON. Let me say that again. They are so damned good, you can add a song using ONE button. One click. THAT is how a device should work.

So don't say Apple stole the interface. They perfected it to a point where it is no longer similar to the Creative based players' interface. Also, Apple was busy submitting copyrights for other technologies while Creative launched their application for the interface.
Apple originated that style interface but Creative holds the patent to it because they beat Apple to the punch. Get that fact straightened out.

When your beloved Creative (and other players for that matter) can match the simplicity and ease of use that the iPod has offered (and will offer) for many years, then you can say the UI sucks and that they aren't original.

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AHHH!!! You are frustrating..........
by naterandrews / September 16, 2006 9:08 AM PDT
In reply to: ipod's "superior UI"

I had to make another post about your ridiculous comment.

"It's not even their's, they stole it, creative has a patent on it."

So, if Sony owned (AFTER IT WAS RELEASED) the patent to the Nintendo GameCube name, that means Nintendo stole the name from Sony, even though they have been making them for X amount of time?

That is just plain ******** and rediculous thinking.
Just because one company holds the patent to a name does not, DOES NOT mean that the other company stole the idea. Yes, Creative holds the patent to the interface but it doesnt mean Apple stole it from them. APPLE MADE THE INTERFACE BEFORE CREATIVE DID. They didn't steal it, they just got the rights to say they legally own it but it did not originate from Creative.

I personally own the brand name "Playstation" just because I filed for it right now and acquired it. So that makes Sony a thief because they are selling Playstation consoles for the last 10 years. BOO FREAKIN HOO.

I wish I could say I am happy people like you aren't in a position of authority for the patent process but unfortunately it is untrue.

Yes, they can request an injunction to have the opposing company (Apple for this instance) stop producing and selling devices using "their" UI- same goes for any other patent holder.
But, yet again I will CLEARLY (or as clear as I can make your feeble mind understand it) state, Apple did NOT "steal" Creative's UI/interface. They were busy actually BEING CREATIVE while the company with the same name was NOT.

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What people call neccessary aren't all that neccessary......
by naterandrews / September 15, 2006 5:18 AM PDT
In reply to: Poor Feature Set

I feel like a broken record now but...

1- I hate FM radio. That is the precise reason I bought a digital music player. Music I want, when I want it, where I want it. I don't have to hassle to get a clear signal, don't have to worry about quality. Not to mention the commercials. If you are nostalgic so much, get a old fashioned FM portable radio with better battery life. K?

2- I don't like nor would I use line in recording. That is also another "feature" I think would be a waste of my money. If you cannot cough up a buck to buy a song and would rather chose to record a low quality, crappy copy then something is wrong.

3- For those that say iPod does not compete in terms of value... you may want to rethink your opinion.
Solid warranty and strong support is number one for me. Local Apple Stores can help me get new headphones if/when I mangle mine (instead of waiting a week for a replacement). The staff are courteous and helpful and it costs me nothing. Wow, great value dont ya think?
Apple also has an easy to navigate site that gives helpful tips and suggestions for troubleshooting. Access to message boards and easy to find downloads for updates and other software is nice too.
The new headphones I've heard, are a great upgrade from the old style. Let's talk features. The iPod can play photos, video, podcasts, games, FM radio, etc.
How is that a "lacking featureset"?

I don't like radio, so I am not forced to pay extra for it. Same goes for line in recording, and for codecs to media types I wont use. And all I have to do is convert a file (which isn't really THAT hard people) to get it to play on the iPod. Same goes for the WMA/WMV based devices. So be quiet about that "point" of yours. You have just lost your validity.


The iPod ecosystem is equally the most robust in the digital world. More automobiles natively support iPod than any other player out there. There are far more accessories and add-on components available for the player and it is backed by a powerful company that you know has staying power.

As for those of you that say people only get an iPod for the cool factor, you can also think again.
I have an iPod... I am not "cool", nor do I know anyone that is "cool". I bought it because the reasons I listed above, the quality of the product, and that I can operate it without being frustrated by incompetently designed menus and shortcut keys.

One more thing, if you say I am an iPod fanboy (or Apple for that matter, your wrong). I despise OS X, and I also own a Rio Carbon player, not to mention a Creative Zen Xtra. iPod is the simplest to use and is simply by far the best player out there.

So. Those are the facts. Not everyone gets an iPod to be cool. The iPod can hold it's own in terms of value and features. And the iPod will be here for a while. I'm sure I'll get flamed but hey, at least I am unbiased and think of things rationally here unlike people that say "FM is a MUST HAVE feature!" (Doesn't that sound a bit Republican to you? Since I like it, you must also).

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Also..
by naterandrews / September 15, 2006 5:28 AM PDT

I guess, after reading my post, I did sound a little biased towards the iPod. So, to reinforce that I am impartial to the iPod, I'll also list some it's faults:

1- Incompatibility with other media stores and formats
(MovieLink, etc.) You can strip the DRM to make it
work on the iPod but it's unlawful...

2- While the iPod does come in many shapes and sizes to
appease many customers, they really don't seem to
cater to the true audiophile. Since Steve claims he
himself is one, then maybe he should release a
premium iPod that has FM radio and all those
features that people are begging for and are willing
to pay for.

3- Lack of re downloading. While this is a iTunes flaw,
Apple markets iPod and iTunes as one so I guess it
fits. Apple does not make it easy as say, Rhapsody
does, to download missing music from your library.
While I've read (and asked Apple myself) that people
can download previously purchased tracks again,
it is also a "one time only" stunt. Unfair Apple,
unfair.

I am sure you all can think of more faults, but I still stick with my original post (above) that the iPod is still simply the best platform and player out there (doesn't mean it is "perfect" but darn good) for now.

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iPods aren't always the best...
by owilde / September 15, 2006 5:57 AM PDT

Inline recording for using it to take notes... Apple ipods are very simple looking and ''simple'' to use as they were designed for the simple minded...

They have so many accessories available because apple doesn't make some features built-in and so other companies can make tons of money off of them, and yes, people only buy them because they think it will help make them ''cooler''. One reason to never buy an ipod - they are more likely to get stolen (they have a high re-sale value as everyone wants one), and also, I HATE WHITE colored electronics. So do many other people. And that is the reason why the Black version of all apple items are more expensive, or are only used for the higher grade version (ie for their laptops, to get a black one you have to buy the most expensive model as the cheaper models are only available in white). Also, some other mp3 players can be used to store data on them (portable hard drive, much more space compared to a USB flash memory key, and is part of your player so you don't have to pay extra for a memory key/stick. I don't know if ipods do this, as you have to have the correct software on your computer to be able to sync this data to your mp3 player and most media players will only sync actual music files.

I do agree about the radio, I never listen to the radio and if you have a decent mp3 player, you should be able to fit way more songs onto it than you could listen to within a 2 week period (so you can't say you have no variety). I personally like to be able to use whatever program I want to sync to my mp3 player, I don't have iTunes installed at all. Also, Apple's tech support can be very crappy if you don't have a brand new item, as you cannot guarantee the ability to call them up and ask a simple question if you are out of warranty (which I don't know what ipod warranties are like, but for the laptops, you get 1 year parts and labor, BUT only 3 months (90 days) of FREE TELEPHONE support. What happened to you getting free basic phone support just because you have/own one of their products and they should be able to give you yes/no answers??? Try that with Apple and they will charge you a one time fee of $49 to talk to you for a few minutes JUST THAT ONE TIME, and might not even be able to help you solve anything, or come up with a helpful suggestion you haven't already tried...

Plus all Apple items are way over-priced, and there are many other products out there that are just as easy to use, have better battery life, better customer support -after initial 90 days, are just the same quality if not better, and less likely to be stolen (if you own a less bought mp3 player, it is much harder to find things like new/used ac adapters on ebay for the thief to buy and be able to use the ipod, while not many are willing to buy needed accessories, download needed drivers to install on their PC, etc for another brand.

The one GREAT thing about Apple though, is that they do have Apple Stores around that you can take your product into for help (even if you have no warranty for it), they have different learning ''classes'' on a regular basis, have all accessories available to buy there, and even have ''creative jam sessions'' that you can schedule up for to talk about any creative projects you might be creating... This is the only reason I purchased a refurbished ibook (for cheap) as I live about 30 minutes away from an Apple store and as I have a 1 year warranty with another organization instead of Apple, that store could be very useful to me for smaller things...

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Ahh..
by naterandrews / September 15, 2006 6:02 AM PDT

I agree about the muggings and thieves. We should enter the market and launch "iDefense" classes to help iPodders from being mugged, no?

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iPod = No Subscription Music Services.
by john55440 / September 15, 2006 8:49 AM PDT

If you are interested in subscription music services, iPods are a definite Don't Buy.

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At least you admitted you didn't know,
by VidPro / September 15, 2006 10:59 AM PDT

... but then why bring it up without checking?

You wrote; "Also, some other mp3 players can be used to store data on them (portable hard drive, much more space compared to a USB flash memory key, and is part of your player so you don't have to pay extra for a memory key/stick. I don't know if ipods do this, as you have to have the correct software on your computer to be able to sync this data to your mp3 player and most media players will only sync actual music files."

Actually, iPods act like an ejectable drive as soon as you plug them in, without the need for any software to be able to copy files onto or off the hard drive or flash memory. The iTunes media player doesn't even have to be running for this.

Please note that if you make such a basic wrong assumption, as well as factual errors in your assertions that "people only buy them because they think it will help make them 'cooler' '', and "all Apple items are way over-priced, and there are many other products out there that are just as easy to use", your other points will be treated as suspect as well, so if you are trying to make a point, check the facts first.

As I pointed out, all iPods can act as data storage, as others have also pointed out, they don't all buy iPods due to the cool factor, and if you price the 8 GB Creative MP3 player, it is exactly the same price as the 8 GB iPod, but even though Creative sued Apple over the interface, even PC magazine articles report in their reviews that the iPod has the better and easier interface. The better design, fit and finish, and user experience are what make the iPod more popular both to buy, and as you point out, to steal. However, rather than not buying one because it may be stolen, just keep better care of it. If you don't leave it behind, out in the open, or at least within view in a locked car, for example, it won't get stolen.

The new iPod Nanos come in 3 other colors in addition to the original white and more recent black. Microsoft's Zune will only come in white, black, and brown.

As you said, "it is much harder to find things like new/used ac adapters on ebay for the thief to buy and be able to use the ipod" as if that is a good reason to buy a "less bought mp3 player", but this is also bad for anyone buying the "less bought mp3 player" legitimately, while an advantage for the legal iPod buyer both for other kinds of accessories (portable and not-so-portable speakers and protective cases, for example) as well as the ac adapters that they may want so they have one at the office, one at home, or even several at home in different rooms.

As well, from Apple's website: "AppleCare Protection Plan for iPod extends your service and support coverage for your iPod and its included accessories and software. Get up to two years of world-class support via phone, chat or web ? plus long-term peace of mind for your portable digital music experience." So extended phone support is also available for customers that feel a need. Most won't, but if you want the security of it, it is there for you.

Aside from the above points, you were bang on with your arguments. Wink

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Hit it head on...
by naterandrews / September 15, 2006 11:21 AM PDT

"Actually, iPods act like an ejectable drive as soon as you plug them in, without the need for any software to be able to copy files onto or off the hard drive or flash memory. The iTunes media player doesn't even have to be running for this."

You have no idea how many times that feature saved me, I even forgot to mention that in my original post. Heck, once before, I entrusted my iPod as my HD backup until Seagate shipped me my replacement!


"Please note that if you make such a basic wrong assumption, as well as factual errors in your assertions that "people only buy them because they think it will help make them 'cooler' '', and "all Apple items are way over-priced, and there are many other products out there that are just as easy to use", your other points will be treated as suspect as well, so if you are trying to make a point, check the facts first."

As President of the Pencil Pushers Club I am a pioneer of "cool" so that's why I, myself, bought an iPod. If you can grasp any idea of sarcasm, you know I'm lying. I am not a member of the Varsity or whathaveyou. Like I said in my post above, I got it just for the ease of use. So you hit that head on too. You tell those iPod haters!!


"The new iPod Nanos come in 3 other colors in addition to the original white and more recent black. Microsoft's Zune will only come in white, black, and brown."

Someone should really fire Robbie Bach. Brown? I've heard mixed reactions saying it looks like a....well, Lincoln Log, to just plain hideous. The other colors are decent I guess. But if Microsoft wants to put out colors, they should do it wholeheartedly. Instead of letting the goths' chose the color scheme.


"As well, from Apple's website: "AppleCare Protection Plan for iPod extends your service and support coverage for your iPod and its included accessories and software. Get up to two years of world-class support via phone, chat or web ? plus long-term peace of mind for your portable digital music experience." So extended phone support is also available for customers that feel a need. Most won't, but if you want the security of it, it is there for you."

I agree, AppleCare rocks. I just wish it wasnt as much as it is. I wish there were variating price points but what can you do. Actually, you may not even need AppleCare. At the Apple Store, I am not even required to show an AppleCare card or anything like that.


Aside from the above points, you were bang on with your arguments. Wink

I agree.

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reply
by ackmondual / September 15, 2006 6:16 AM PDT

1-FM radio
some1 else had a valid counter argument. If u go on long trips, it's good to be able to switch music on the fly, even tho u have no direct control of the music that's gong to come in. Furthermore, u can other audio material like radio blogs, news, traffic, weather, stock quotes, and sports info from local stations.

2-in line recording
yeah, again, it's your choice and i can respect that. However, not everyone is into "high quality". To compare, some ppl cannot view anything lesser in quality than HDTV and HD movies. Others are perfectly happy with the tube TV and VHS. Is it that our tastes suck? Probably, but some folks don't wanna fork over $1000+ when a $100 TV gets the job done perfectly well.
But songs are only $1!! That's true, but this is the "latte factor". Coffee drinkers don't just get $4 lattes once a month. They go quite frequently. Likewise, some music enthusiasts can buy songs by the dozen. That "buck" adds up VERY quickly. Sometimes having just a low quality recording is plain sufficient

3-value set
yes, but some of ipod's competitors offer bigger screens to watch videos and pics, Voice recorders, FM radio, XM/Sirius radio are among some that ipod does NOT include. In some cases, other brands offer more capacity and features for CHEAPER. Sans the APple UI of course, which can't be dismissed.

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I agree
by rbgile / September 15, 2006 6:54 AM PDT

I agree with your analysis of the Ipod, I don't care for those extras either. I've had two ipods, the 40 gig ipod version 3 and the 60 gig photo. I lost the 40 gig, much sadness! The one thing I'd like to say about the new Ipod 60 photo is that the screen is much softer than the older 40. I am very careful with it, and the screen is still all scratched. Just putting it into the cheap provided cover causes the screen to scratch! I bought mine last year, when they first came out. I hope the later models are more scratch resistant.

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...so what's wrong with OS X? (he asks, rhetorically)
by payshunz / September 17, 2006 6:14 AM PDT

...despise OS X...

Whoa, now where did THAT come from? iPod<-->OS X???? As an avid user of OS X AND a (reluctant) user of Windows XP, I am very hard pressed to see why your dislike of my favorite operating system has a place in these iPod discussions.

Sort of like comparing my electric blender with a Seinfeld episode - they're both related to General Electric, aren't they? I know I can enjoy one and not the other, but I seldom bring my dislike of my blender into a conversation about a Seinfeld episode.

Here I was, agreeing with everything you were so clearly explaining, then from out of nowhere...POW! You cast everything in doubt.

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most people.....
by naterandrews / September 18, 2006 3:44 AM PDT

most people think you are biased towards apple itself when you defend the ipod. so i just wanted to make that point that i love the ipod but not mac os x. proving that i can like the ipod while not loving everything apple cranks out.

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Unnecessary features, etc.
by dfaller / September 17, 2006 10:28 AM PDT

Bravo! I want an MP3 player with a great interface, good battery life and excellent sound quality. I don't know why almost everyone feels that FM or in line recording is so vital to the quality rating of a digtal music player. Same goes for video. Who wants to watch video on a screen the size of a large postage stamp?! MP3 players are going the same direction as cell phones: too many bonehead ''features'' that most people really don't use, but it would be uncool not to have them. How about sticking with a task-specific device for a change? Most things that do lots of things don't do any one thing very well. If anybody can name an interface that works as great as the ipod then bring it on!

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Opinion
by lavern / September 19, 2006 8:07 AM PDT

wouldn't everything you just said be considered your opinion and not fact. If I were to say some other player had a better interface you would just say no it didn't....Whats the point?!?

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Clearly ignorant of market statistics
by inoshishi / September 17, 2006 7:21 PM PDT
In reply to: Poor Feature Set

Your are clearly expressing a minority view. The 75% to 80% (depending on which statistics you use) of people purchasing a portable media player today are not looking FM and recording features on their device... they are looking for simplicity, ease of use, integration with good desktop software, portability across Mac and Windows, etc.

The iPod's continued dominance has not been as a result of it having the most extensive feature set. The secret to the iPod's success is simplicity and ease of use.

The forums are full of geeky types talking up features. the impact of iTunes on the success of the iPod is lost to these people as they beleive that everyone should be able to navigate to where their music is on their computer and figure out how to drag and drop it to their media player. Until you have watched people that are generally uncomfortable with computers select playlists and sync their iPods using iTunes, it is difficult to phanthom what all the fus is about.

Apple did not revolutionise the portable media industry, they just simplified it enough for non-geeks and everyday people to become comfortable with what had previously been a geeky activity. It is these non-geeks that continue to drive the success of the iPod.

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you're kidding
by tubemonkey / September 18, 2006 11:12 AM PDT

I'm not ignorant of market statistics; I just don't let them drive my purchasing decisions. If a device doesn't have the features I want, then why should I waste my money on it?

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