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Well, they've gotten around to fixing low gas prices

by Roger NC / February 1, 2013 11:28 PM PST

Look at the increase in the last few weeks, supposely due to refineries being shut down for maintenance and for the change over to summer blend.

Question, if there is enough winter blend already stored to begin switching to summer blend the first of Feburary, how is the supply short enough to drive price up?

Gas (not necessarily crude oil) can be driven a bit by demand, but once demand gets to a certain low, it's not going much lower. People probably have been driving a bit more just because relatively the price has been down and there was a perception of greater affordability. And perhaps people are feeling enough better about their economic future to do and spend a bit more.

Cost drive in price wouldn't be changed by demand I admit, but these temporary "shortages" caused by refinery maintenance or blend change over driving price up seems to me to indicate one of limited number of problems.

Not enough refineries, a compliant I've heard expounded a lot the last couple of decades. Granted no one is going to build a new one unless demand is projected to exceed demand a year from now.

The opposite possibility there is not wanting any spare capability at all because the shorter the spare supply the easier it is to drive the profit margin higher.

Not enough storage of refined products. Again a cost that would have to be added in and companies would have to see a profit motive to build. A side problem there is storage of refined products is a safety issue also.

Just like with production, is storage low because demand doesn't justify it, or because with a low storage its easier to spike prices every time there is a temporary lull in production?

Interesting around here that several stations in a 45 mile radius at times have huge differences in prices, even the same brand, distributed by the same distributer may different by 20 cents a gallon occasionally. Normal variance is about 10 cents a gallon. How does the gas delivered by the same tanker to retailers 10 to 15 miles apart regularly vary by 10 cent a gallon?

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Do you use Gas Buddy?
by Steven Haninger / February 2, 2013 12:51 AM PST

I'll check it to find lowest area prices and can often see when the next increase will hit full force. It will also give you the latest on crude prices. Those have gone up quite a bit lately. It was at about 82 bucks a barrel sometime last month and shows at $97 today. That's quite an increase so it's not just a change in blends but a hefty increase in the raw material. There seems to be a ratcheting effect where the stations will all raise prices suddenly and then they'll decrease a bit until the next increase. If you're astute enough, you can catch the low points and avoid the higher ones.

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true, but not quite as applical when you live in rural area
by Roger NC / February 2, 2013 2:27 AM PST
In reply to: Do you use Gas Buddy?

Now it isn't far to different stations, but the only real difference in less than 20 miles is one or two are a lot higher. The rest are within a couple of cents of each other.

And the problem with distance is saving enough to pay for the trip. Even at 30 mpg, a 45 mile round trip takes over a gallon, so your tank has to be large enough so that 10 cent a gallon savings adds up to over $7 dollars. So you need a vehicle that has a 70 gallon tank that gets 30 mpg. I'd be interested in learning of such a vehicle.

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Price in crude jumped suddenly 2 weeks ago
by James Denison / February 2, 2013 4:21 AM PST

It's just now making it to the pumps. The Algerian situation is what caused it to jump. It's not come back down since then. Seems a Canadian might have been behind the Algerian hostage taking too.

"Hostages who made it
out of the facility later told reporters that one of the hostage takers
had fair hair and skin and spoke perfect English with what was described
as a Canadian or British accent.
Since then, despite
the forceful demands of Foreign Minister John Baird and other Canadian
officials, Algierian officials have failed to provide any further
information that would help Ottawa verify the identities of the
suspected Canadians, such as identification papers or physical evidence
such as DNA or fingerprints."

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as I recall a bit of news, it was possibly a naturalized
by Roger NC / February 2, 2013 4:55 AM PST


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(NT) Inconvenient details, Roger. We're in the Denison Zone !!!
by Ziks511 / February 2, 2013 7:54 AM PST
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The paper didn't say
by James Denison / February 2, 2013 10:21 AM PST

I looked around at some others and like the usual avoidance of mentioning anything that might offend PC feelings, neither did they say he was naturalized. In fact it seems they were trying to imply perhaps he wasn't by saying he had "fair hair". One mentioned he might be Chechen, so maybe a Chechen who became Canadian, or maybe someone confused the terms. Maybe "Chechen" and "Canadian" sound too similar to foreign ears? Anyway, it was an interesting twist to the situation I'd not expected.

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James' new Crusade. Certainly it was rumoured, but I have
by Ziks511 / February 2, 2013 7:53 AM PST

not seen sufficient confirmatory evidence, and I've been looking. He had a Muslim name and looked like a Muslim judging from the photo. Sadly, a Canadian passport tends not to excite suspicion and so it is often forged and used by bad guys.

Or do you think Canadians are trying to drive up the cost of gasoline?? American Corporations have a long standing record of such market manipulation and collusion on that issue, and Canada has none.

And how exactly does an attack on a natural gas facility in Algeria force up the cost of Petrol in the US at the Pump?

Are you capable of making a logical argument, or do you just flail around in a kiddie pool of words, and post the slop-over.

I think an apology is in order. Not to JP, or any Canadian, or to me. You owe an apology to the others at SE who are forced to read your irrational, illogical rants based only on half remembered rumours and a surfeit of bile and paranoia..


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I'd think that if an apology was required
by Steven Haninger / February 2, 2013 8:13 AM PST

by all members for every transgression against forum policy or even human decency and respect, there would be little else to read but "I'm sorry" posts.

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making things up again are you?
by James Denison / February 2, 2013 10:35 AM PST

I never said anyone, Canadian or otherwise attacked the facility in order to drive up crude oil prices. That's just what happens when there's conflict in certain areas of the Middle East. Seems you could have realized that by now. That should cover most of your misdirected questions.

Hopefully Reuters isn't too offensive a news service to you.

"NEW YORK, Jan 16 (Reuters) - Oil prices rose on Wednesday
after an Algerian gas field came under attack from Islamist
militants and as data showed crude stocks fell in the United
States last week. The possibility of supply disruptions in Africa and the
Middle East remain a supportive factor for oil after Al
Qaeda-linked Islamists on Wednesday claimed to have seized up to
41 hostages, including seven Americans, in a raid on a gas field
plant in OPEC-member Algeria."


UPSTREAM, international oil and gas news source
"Oil prices rose on Wednesday after an Algerian gas field came under
attack from Islamist militants and as data showed crude stocks fell in
the US last week.
I like the picture too.

just 5 days later.

CNBC reports;
"U.S. crude futures
may test $100 a barrel this week - possibly breaching triple digits -
after an attack against a gas facility in OPEC member Algeria on
Wednesday escalated into an international hostage crisis, leading to
renewed fears that supply may be disrupted in other politically-unstable
parts of North and West Africa."

"Are you capable of making a logical argument, or do you just flail around in a kiddie pool of words, and post the slop-over.

Now, go wipe some embarrassment off and remember to research and study next time before posting inaccuracies.

"I think an apology is in order. Not to JP, or any Canadian, or to me.
You owe an apology to the others at SE who are forced to read your
irrational, illogical rants based only on half remembered rumours and a
surfeit of bile and paranoia.."

Pick out the log in your own eye before obsessing over some perceived speck in another's? SE awaits your apology; or maybe not, knowing you already.

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