Windows Vista

General discussion

Vista Bluescreens already on installation

by Morkeleb / February 24, 2007 10:16 PM PST

Hi there. I got Vista Ultimate (German version).
Before I checked my system using the upgrade advisor and it gave me an OK.
I startet installation, but as soon as it starts completing it after the reboot (and probably detects and installs hardware devices) i get bluescreens. The bluescreens do not tell of any error cause or module that caused it. The only thing I found out using WinDBg is "Probably caused by : ntkrpamp.exe" and that it was because trying to access a part of the memory not allowed (paging fault?). The Debug code is often different though.
I eventually manage to get through the installation and on the desktop, installed all available updates but that only seemed to worsen the problem.
The bluescreen randomly appears, often on startup (even before setup had finished, i could not even use the secure mode then because it told me to complete the installation first), and if it manages that at a random point of using windows the first few minutes.

I tried taking out non-essential hardware like a dvb- and audio-card, using my old video card (Nvidia 6800GT) or deactivating some on-board devices such as firewire using the bios.

Nothing worked. So all I could figure out was that it was caused by either the motherboard or the cpu. The memory most likely not because the memory test of vista gave me an ok on that too.

Here my specs:
Motherboard: Abit AX8 V2
CPU: Athlon 64 x2 3800+
Ram: 2x Corsair TWINX2048-3500LLPRO (http://www.corsairmicro.com/corsair/products/specs/TWINX2048-3500LLPRO.pdf)
Graphics: Nvidia GeForce 7900 GTX
Soundcard: Creative Audigy 2
TV-Card: Technotrend S2-3200 HDTV-S2
DVD Drive: Plextor PX-716A
Harddrives: 2x 200gb Seagate Barracuda and 1x 300gb Seagate Barracuda. all normal ATA (not sata)

Can anybode help me on this problem?

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Additional info
by Morkeleb / February 24, 2007 10:20 PM PST

Oh, some additional detail:
- Running Vista in secure mode works perfectly, no bluescreens
- I ofcourse do not overclock the system
- I am running Windows XP without problems

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Not an answer.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 24, 2007 10:23 PM PST
In reply to: Additional info

One of the problems I'm seeing is that unless the machine's maker has sorted out Vista we shouldn't try it. That's my stance today.

Being able to run XP means nothing about being able to run Vista. They are turning out to be two entirely different birds.

What to do? Call the machine's maker and ask if they know what to do.

Bob

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Re: call machine's maker
by Morkeleb / February 24, 2007 11:45 PM PST
In reply to: Not an answer.

So I should call myself?

I built the systeme - i bought all the stuff myself and assembled it myself. Many people do it that way. Its the best way to customize your pc to your needs and it is often cheaper then buying a whole pc.

Do I understand correctly that you think it only makes sense to change to vista if the system is vista certified? If so this is the case then what sense would the upgrade adviser make? It is here to tell you if your system will run vista or if not, what changes are required.

If this pc would have been built by some company, believe me, they would have heared from me by now.

Btw, I have an HP NX 9420 laptop and vista runs fine on it (at least technically).

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It's turning out to be a big issue.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 25, 2007 4:20 AM PST

I've seeing many homemade machines refuse to run Vista. Mind you that people only bring me their bombs but I'm now of the mind that Vista is unfriendly to home builders. Take that example about non-HDCP displays. That's nuts.

Since you built it you get to go over each item and see if they noted Vista for support, it works or drivers for Vista. Microsoft is little help here since this version is not about you and I but seems to have another agenda. Many point to Hollywood, DRM and more.

Bob

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So it's the who's to blame here route again?
by Morkeleb / February 25, 2007 5:55 AM PST

Yes, maybe vista is not that friendly towards home builders.
But at least they did change some details of their rules quite late that are a bit more in favor to them (i dont remember them now in detail but they are about a copy being bound to a system - the rules were loosened there, even though still more strict then with XP).

What do non-hdcp displays have anything to do with home building I wonder, or what do pre-built systems. I think the older both pre-built and home made sysstems are the lower the chance is that they will have problems with vista.
Lately many manufacturers have been busy certifying their hardware (or software) for vista (even the those that are a bit older but still being sold).

Vista being restrictive about what it allows in terms of media is a totally different topic here. I think if anywone wants to discuss that, it should go in another thread.

I guess you are working in the PC area? Would be interesting to hear.
Anyway, i think it natural on will see more home made systems having trouble with vista because people will go to the company that built or sold the system for support, and not try to solve the issue themselves.

Anyway, I have narrowed the problem down already as mentioned in my initial post. If you want, blame me (and all other home builders) for a system that doesnt work...
But from what I see, it is Vista's fault: If it tells me in the provided tool that my system is ok for Vista it should run.
As it does not, either the tool gives false information or more likely, the problem is caused by bugs in Vista, which is not surprising.
Yes, basically vista is stable. But only basically. Drivers are the big variable here. If they do not work because the way vista uses them or the new drivers adapted for vista introduced new bugs (as has been seen, i think) that causes vista to go unstable.
In my case it was unstable even before I installed any drivers (and trying to replace vistas own drivers (like their wddm ones) did not help, here again its the problem that the drivers provided with vista are not mature yet.

Anyway, I think i cannot solve this problem. So unless someone else has an idea I am forced to wait until either upgrades to vista fixes it or I am upgrading my system (to a vista certified motherboard, probably the Asus P5W DH Deluxe).

Anyway, i'm sorry if I sound a bit irritated... it is not my intention to anger you or anybody else here.

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"vista certified motherboard" = nod.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / February 25, 2007 8:38 AM PST

I think you nailed it. You want to see "Vista" labels on each little part, printer, display, etc.

What I do? I'm just an electronics designer, software writer (embedded products, PC and PDA) and avid DIY person. I've owned PC repair shops, handled the hard cases that come our way as well as converse in the forums.

If you go back a few years you may remember when we had to see that "Novell" label on networking gear.

Bob

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Call Machine's Maker
by SeventySix1931 / March 29, 2008 3:14 PM PDT

Morkeleb. I have a blue screen problem on my own assembled PC too. Mobo Asus P5W DH Deluxe. Tested all 1GB Corsair XMS stiks. Work fine individually, wonderfully in pairs ok if three are installed. Kaput when the last stik is added. Besides getting a lower total memory BIOS reading than 4096MB as the damm machine gulps up 896 MB. Ergo! The problem must be the motherbord itself or Intel's chipset. Not to freak ou again I just left the PC with 3072 MB of memory and bye bye blue screens.

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New info
by Morkeleb / February 28, 2007 7:22 PM PST

I found out what the most typical error I get means:
BugCheck 1000008E, {80000003 ... Means: 8E is KERNEL_MODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED which means an exeption occurred (which may be normal) but it has not been handled.
The detail parameter 3 means it is because a fixed breakpoint was reached but debugging was not active.
See: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/ms794023.aspx

This indicates the some of the software still has some debugging breakpoints set, even though this should not be the case with final versions of any software. It seemes Microsoft's developers have forgotten some.

There is nothing I can do about this, as far as I know. Always running in debug mode (even if that would do the trick) is not a good option.

So, even if this breakpoint is reached because of the hardware I use (it must be the Abit AX8 v2.0) this should not happen.

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vista
by ddbpack / March 2, 2007 8:46 AM PST
In reply to: New info

i have reasd at cnet. that vista is very memoty intense! memory that will run on xp wont run on vista! so if you have more than one stick of memory , pull one out and reboot. if same problem persists, put that one back in and take out the other s memory stcik

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Memory checks
by Morkeleb / March 3, 2007 4:11 AM PST
In reply to: vista

This may be true, but what you are suggesting is finding out if any of the sticks have an error. They don't. I have done memory tests verifying that the memory is ok.
Or are you talking about something different?

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Vista Bluescreens already on installation
by mabradford / March 2, 2007 12:09 PM PST

That is correct. That is how OS's from Microsoft work. If you get a blue screen on install - that is the first indication that you have a peripheral problem such as wrong drivers for video card (usually) or sound card (2nd issue). Normally a mouse will just freeze your screen or any mouse action - but, will continue to load. Now - the worst blue screen problem is if you have a bad stick of memory. How can you tell? Are you getting a "memory" screen dump where Windows (vista, xp, whatever) shows you that it is trying to save a ton of stuff (usually) (hex stuff) to hard drive. You won't get that error type if you have a video or sound issue...the result will just be a frozen blue screen. If you have a hard drive issue - you won't get a memory dump because the pc will just freeze because it can't write to a crapped out hard drive. So - first, check your memory and make sure it is good and counts to the amount you're supposed to have. Second - check your video drivers and don't load any drivers for sound at all until after you get up and running. If it's onboard - turn it off. If it's a card - pull it out. Make sure you're video card is good also. If not - no driver will make it run.

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Vista BSOD
by Urkel. / March 3, 2007 4:23 AM PST

I didn't see it mentioned here, but then again I might have missed it. If you're using an unsigned driver for any of your installed devices Vista will give you a blue screen after installation is complete. The only work around that I've found is to install the drivers from safe mode using administrator privledges. Personally, I'm not installing Vista until after SP-1 is released, by that time Microsoft, (hopefully), will have the major bugs worked out.

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Tracking down the problem...
by Morkeleb / March 3, 2007 4:37 AM PST

It is no video, memory or harddrive issue.
I checked the memory. The dump is correctly written.
I do not get a freeze, but a bluescreen counting the percent of memory dump that is written.
I replaced the current video card with an older one, with the same results. Both cards work perfectly under windows xp.
Sound drivers are not installed.

Your instructions are however really good general guide to tracking down the source of problem.
I am quite sure that the problem lies with the motherboard.

Anyway, I am trying again with a new install, this time taking the english version. I doubt will change anything, but at least its another check.

As mentioned, I think the only fix to this is either one coming from microsoft (or the drivers they provide) or new hardware. I don't have the money to spend on new motherboard, ram (because a change to ddr2 is in order) and a new cpu (core 2 duo), and the prices will fall quite a bit in one or two months anyway, so I will wait at least until then, probably until summer. Maybe SP 1 for vista is out until then - they said it should be coming second half of 2007.

If you have tips on how to track down the issue further, this would be very welcome!

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Vista Bluescreens already on installation
by knight2448 / March 4, 2007 8:30 AM PST

IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THE PROBLEM IS TERMINAL. YOU MIGHT NEED A NEW MOTHERBOARD AND CPU. IF THAT IS THE CASE YOU SHOULD JUST GET A NEW COMPUTER.

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Waiting...
by Morkeleb / March 4, 2007 6:00 PM PST

What do you mean with "terminal"?
New CPU and Motherboard: yes, thats what I stated anyway. To run Vista I would need new ones. But why a whole new pc - I have always built my PC myself - I only upgrade the parts I need and reuse the others to save money. Most of the others are Vista Certified anyway, and still top-of-the range.
And why buy a new pc that probably includes a new harddisk if I already have over a terrabyte of storage (havent lately counted how much it is exactly, though).

And as Vista should still undergo some maturation process its just fine to wait until I can afford the new hardware which, as mentiond, works perfectly on older versions of windows.

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Fixed
by Morkeleb / May 10, 2007 11:36 PM PDT
In reply to: Waiting...

A final notice:

I changed the motherboard, cpu and ram (Asus P5W DH Deluxe, Core 2 Duo E6600, 2x1024mb corsair ram) and vista runs smoothly now.

Well, mostly. There are issues with the dvb card - I can't watch hdtv properly and XP is still more reliable and responsive.

I will wait until SP1 is out - until then some issues might be fixed and software is updated to work better with vista, not to mention drivers - for many devices there are no vista drivers yet.

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