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The folly of racial prejudice.

by Ziks511 / December 4, 2012 3:22 AM PST

When I grew up, my Doctor was Dr. Wesley, I don't remember my sadistic dentists name, but it was something equally Anglo Saxon, same with my School Principal Mr Henderson and so on.

Now my doctor's name is Fried (pronounced freed), my dentist's office is Dr. Michael Kondracki, and he has a hint of a Ukrainian accent as does one of his dentists who came here in her teens from the Ukraine. My dentist's name is Martiuk (pronounced Mar CHOOK) and she speaks fluent Ukrainian though her English is virtually accent free.

The Anaesthetist who put my son to sleep for his Hernia surgery at age 2 was coal black and had tribal scars on his face (and since I'd done my homework was reputedly the finest Anaesthetist in the Hospital), but spoke perfectly regular Canadian English. His surgeon was a Ukrainian Canadian (they've been in Canada since the 1890's, particularly out on the prairies.

Dr. Bergsagel was also from the prairies but his parents were Norwegian. His daughter married a Texas Jew,

Nowadays the people who say things that make me cringe are most likely to be named Rob Ford (Toronto's ex Mayor) or somebody named Denison, or any number of Anglo-Saxon or Irish names like Hannity, O'Reilly or Limbaugh.

I worked with a number of Pharmacists in Britain of Arabic origin, and Sikh, and Indian extractions too. My immediate boss was Hong Kong Chinese, spoke with an accent, and he could explain some of the technical bits about English grammar better than I could, in fact I was able to sort out a number of questions I'd had for years by talking with him.

Chilean, Peruvian, Colombian, Nicaraguan, Russian. I'm surrounded by the g-d United Nations here, and I like them all, and they're all just people. People with the same desires as I have, to make a good life and to get along.

That, I think, is what it's all supposed to be about.


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Anomalies are everywhere
by James Denison / December 4, 2012 3:35 AM PST

One still can not dismiss the facts that being Korean and walking in the wrong Baltimore neighborhood is a good way to get killed quicker than any other way. Also a danger in being black and walking in the wrong Jewish neighborhood in Baltimore. I don't doubt it's the same in many other places. To pretend demographics and geography have no bearing on race based crimes, is to become foolish. The anomalies should always be appreciated though, and may give hope of a better day.

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So you're prejudiced against
by Steven Haninger / December 4, 2012 3:40 AM PST

anyone with an Anglo-Saxon sounding name?

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At least we agree on one thing......
by TONI H / December 4, 2012 3:59 AM PST

"g-d United Nations"

And, excuse me, but your post has all of YOUR racial biases showing........and you've never revealed YOUR last name. Why?

And, do you honestly believe that only Anglo-Saxon Conservative 'whites' are racists? I've heard plenty of our black caucus Congressional (House and Senate) spew lots of hate speech over the last couple of years and it's only gotten worse lately.....and it's always against people who don't agree with BO, his policies, and his appointees.

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Toni --
by Josh K / December 4, 2012 4:10 AM PST

-- there are plenty of good reasons not to reveal your full name on the Internet. When I first joined this forum in 1998, my username had both my first and last names in it. You might remember my last name and a few others here might also remember it, but since then I've learned that it's better to err on the side of safety and privacy, and hopefully those of you who know my last name won't post it here.

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I have no problem with that
by TONI H / December 4, 2012 5:49 AM PST
In reply to: Toni --

I DO have a problem with a regular poster here specifically pointing out that BECAUSE of SOMEBODY ELSE'S last names he has a real aversion to believing anything they have to say. It has nothing to do with having different points of view evidently....it has everything to do with the fact that, in his opinion, if they have a 'certain' type of last name, their point of view will automatically be different from his so therefore it must be disparaged and criticized at all costs even if it's a rational difference. It is to be discounted completely. It's one thing to have that point of view when it comes to media sources....it's quite another when it's because of the person's name for the most part.

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Rob should probably respond for himself...
by Josh K / December 4, 2012 11:58 PM PST

.....but my reading of his post is that he was sniping at individuals in and outside of SE in a tongue-in-cheek manner, not seriously making judgments based on their names.

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A serious problem with it, IMO, was the examples
by Steven Haninger / December 5, 2012 12:19 AM PST

of Anglo-Saxon names. They were hardly chosen at random from a very deep bucket of available names. They could well be suspect of being snipes at known media personalities and at an SE contributor.

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(NT) That's what I thought it was
by Josh K / December 5, 2012 12:42 AM PST
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(NT) The names were chosen from my childhood, Steven.
by Ziks511 / December 6, 2012 7:43 AM PST
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Every last one was who and what I said he or she was.
by Ziks511 / December 6, 2012 8:18 AM PST

My point was that even the White population is undergoing a big change in its cultural origins, affiliations, and make up.

Yesterdays immigrant is todays doctor, dentist, or captain of Industry. What? You think the Koch Brothers brought their coal mines with them?

It was a reminiscence on the changing face of America and Canada.

My boss at the Pharmacy in Orsett was Doug Wong. First generation Hong Kong Chinese, his name is Tak Mak Wong, but Tak is pronounced more like Duck, so Doug was the best transliteration for him. While my current Respirologist is Robert Hyland, and an old boy of UCC, an expensive prep school here, his associate and the guy who took over the department from him, was Charlie Chan, also a first generation immigrant. I wonder what you'd have made of that had I posted it in the original post. How Charlie became Charlie, I have no idea, but I wouldn't put it outside of the realm of a racial joke being played on us white guys.

On my mother's side, the paternal line are Naden's, which is Norman French again, but the maternal side are Galleymore's which indicates a Celtic "Ethiopian in the fuel supply" some where. Then again Cheshire is a border county, Wales is just across the border, and they're Celts, so that's probably where it's from. Just to show how odd life can be, my GP for 30 years was Ian Gallimore, and given the rarity of the name, it's virtually certain we are related some how. His father was English, a Tank commander in WW2, and a School master before and after. He emigrated after the War and taught English at that prep school where Bob Hyland and Ian Gallimore and the FitzGeralds and the Mordens all went. Why I ended up with "Public School" boys and girls as the core of my friendships here, I cannot explain. With those "Establishment" type friendships you'd think I'd be a Republican or a Conservative, but I'm not, and they're all pretty tolerant and actually consult to find out what I'm thinking in political terms here.

Oh, and Morden? That's Saxon, as in Anglo-Saxon, it means either murdered, or Murderer, which means there may be an Axe-murderer in their fuel supply.

Ethiopian in the fuel supply is W.C. Fields for " ****** in the woodpile", my asterisks.


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quite frankly, the two most race conscious people here
by Roger NC / December 6, 2012 8:48 AM PST

seem to dispise each other.

Wonder why two such opposites are the two most often to bring race into anything?

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I may be more conscious of race and ethnic origin because of
by Ziks511 / December 8, 2012 10:12 AM PST

my upbringing and my racially and ethnically conscious Mother, but it may be that I have travelled rather more than is usual, and have lived in foreign countries for periods of time, including this one. The problem of race loomed large in my childhood and adolescence, and that in turn stimulated rumination on prejudice and bigotry. I am conscious of ethnicity primarily as offering an additional point of view of issues.

On the other hand I have more than once stepped in when someone has been harrassed for their colour or religion or ethnic origin to defend or chase off the person assaulting the other.

I have been astonished by the clear racial animus of Republicans toward Barack Obama. Republicans may have learned to avoid racial epithets, but the impulse to use oblique racial references certainly hasn't been eradicated. And why, Toni, would you be surprised that Democrats are willing to name what they see as racism coming from the Right? Of course Republicans don't call themselves on it, or perhaps even recognize it, but you imply that recognizing a race based slur and calling the Republicans out on it is somehow an act of racism itself. It may be clever verbal and political judo, but it is just camouflage for the thought processes behind it. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.


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Are you kidding me??????
by TONI H / December 8, 2012 7:22 PM PST

Liberals have now determined that Conservatives use CODE words in order to disguise their racism........words like CHICAGO, for crying out loud. Chicago can only be a 'code word' for CORRUPTION and THUGGERY tactics. I've used that term on a regular basis here in SE to describe BO's method of politics (does that make ME a racist in your opinion?)........but have never even considered the possibility that Chicago refers to his RACE.

We can't criticize Rice because of the 'war on women' or HER race. We can't criticize BO because he's from Chicago and only knows how to bully to get his way and because he's half black.

Please point out to me the 'clear racial animus and the 'oblique racial references' you refer to. Because I don't see any of what you are referring to when I look back on people like Colin Powell or Condi Rice or Bush's Latino AG that Dems pushed out the door (but refuse to do anything about the POS we have currently in that position) or any of the Republican blacks and Latinos that are in office all over the country, including both Houses of Congress, governorships, State positions, local mayors, etc.

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when people are too sensitive
by James Denison / December 8, 2012 9:32 PM PST

to be considered able to handle criticism, it usually means they are considered as lesser than everyone else, and people don't want to upset those who are less.

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They DO use code words
by Josh K / December 10, 2012 4:31 AM PST

You didn't know what Paul Ryan was referring to when he mentioned the "urban vote?"

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Urban vote?
by Steven Haninger / December 10, 2012 6:02 AM PST
In reply to: They DO use code words

More and more it's becoming the gentry.

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That's not a code word
by TONI H / December 10, 2012 6:15 AM PST
In reply to: They DO use code words

it's a term that's been used for years by both sides, Dems use it usually when they are wanting money for 'urban development'.......does that mean that THEY are using a code word for their base? Hell, they even have PROGRAMS with that specific name attached to their titles.

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what's that make the "rural" voters?
by James Denison / December 10, 2012 6:43 AM PST
In reply to: They DO use code words

another codeword for something?

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I'm surprised you've forgotten. I used to post my full name
by Ziks511 / December 6, 2012 7:42 AM PST

at the end of my posts, it is of French origin, but in my case comes from the coast of Scotland in Fife. There are Boyter's in England too, so I don't know if what we are is expatriate Norman French, who went to England and ultimately ended up in Scotland, or if the family legend is true, and my ancestor was a shipwrecked French seaman sailing with the Spanish Armada. It is true that the Armada sailed into a French port to take on additional soldiers and seamen, got caught there and were severely mauled by English fireships. The Armada then went on to be buffetted by storms at sea all the way over the top of Scotland and around Ireland before about 10% of it made it back to Spain. That's how Eamon de Valera's people got to Ireland, he was the Prime Minister of Ireland in the 40's and 50's. I have certainly never made a secret of my name or my origins about which I have talked here. My Great Uncle's family home is on the web, Google The Grange Anstruther.

I did forget to mention that my Endodontist, who will be operating on me to fill the aperture left by an abcess, is Dr. Salamah, and as nice a Canadian gentleman as you could meet.

What the post was about was the fractionation of the Right's view of who is an American. Canada seems to accept that everybody here is a hyphenated Canadian, French-Canadian, Scottish-Canadian, Ukrainian-Canadian, Lebanese-Canadian (Paul Anka), Chinese-Canadian, Native Canadian. All that matters is the Canadian part.

In the speech of the Right I hear hyphens used to denigrate the person and their race, to dismiss their participation in the voting process or to pre-judge (and dismiss) their inclinations to vote one way or another. But hyphenation can cut two ways. Now the Republican party is the party of Old-Disgruntled-White-Men. Just because Herman Cain is a Republican, or Toni Hackler is a Republican, or Michelle Bachmann is a Republican or Michael Steele is a Republican doesn't mean that the base is not fundamentally Old Grumpy White Guys like Sheldon Adelson, and the Koch Brothers.

There is however light at the end of this tunnel. They're dying off.


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(NT) re they're dying all, so are you, me, and everyone else
by Roger NC / December 6, 2012 7:47 AM PST
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Roger, you seem to have given James Denison a pass on being
by Ziks511 / December 10, 2012 3:33 PM PST

racially attuned. His writing, both on Barack Obama, and those dreadful dark skinned Democratic voters, not to mention some of his opinions on Jews, and Ukrainian Auto Workers have indicated that he too has a racial axe to grind.

To ignore race in the presence of racially charged comments is to ignore the Elephant in the Room. To acknowledge the Elephant is not racist, it is simply acknowledging something introduced by implication or clever phrasing or something brought in through the back door.

"It came in through the Bathroom window ..."


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The thing that some of you don't realize
by TONI H / December 6, 2012 4:52 PM PST

or choose to ignore is the fact that for most people, things that are unimportant to us on a personal level and not stored permanently into our memories (such as your last name) so why would we bother to rack that tiny chunk of memory to remember it? It's easier to ask than to care enough to make that effort. For some of you, though, every little tidbit of information about someone else or an event in time is something that can later be used as a 'weapon' of sorts when you attempt to make a point. In any event, MY last name is by 'injection' only (as is Michelle Bachmann)........since my origins are based according to my parents and THEIR last names rather than by a previous husband's.

And to be perfectly honest, even YOU would have to admit, that every accusation of racist during and still ongoing from the beginning of BO's campaigning in 2007/2008 has come from the Democrat/liberal side and has been directed at Republicans/Conservatives/Tea Party members....

It has become impossible for anyone to criticize this particular president and his political agenda WITHOUT having the race card thrown down like a gauntlet. He is a total POS......but like you said "There is however light at the end of this tunnel". He'll either die off, be impeached, or finally run his damaging course and be gone. The regulations he has and will continue to impose can be undone....Obamacare will be so entrenched into so many areas, that it will take a long time to finally be done with it. Four more years (two, if we are lucky and smarter enough to take over both houses of Congress again and begin to untangle his mess.......because NOW it IS his mess).

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I'm finding that those who constantly shout
by Steven Haninger / December 6, 2012 6:01 PM PST

"racist!" are the ones trying to hide their own prejudices...racial or otherwise.

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(NT) Horse shoes, sir.
by Ziks511 / December 8, 2012 10:16 AM PST
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Folks can get blinded by their own ignorance
by Steven Haninger / December 8, 2012 6:08 PM PST
In reply to: Horse shoes, sir.

We say that of some of the sweetest people we've known...often our own deceased or older family. We love them but acknowledge their prejudices as coming from ignorance and not hatred. I see that today in people but it's expanded beyond just race. It's now party affiliation and more. For some, all they need is to know if a person is politically an R or a D to define their prejudices...or lack of them. These people don't even need or care to get to know anything beyond that. They are content within their own ignorance. The difference between these folks and the ignorant of old is that they are not sweet. They are truly mean.

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(NT) In case you haven't noticed, Steven, I don't hide anything.
by Ziks511 / December 10, 2012 3:34 PM PST
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