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The difference between the PN58B850 and the PN58B860...

by kamots30 / April 19, 2009 9:52 AM PDT

Can anyone advise the difference in features between Samsung's upcoming Plasma 850/860 models and when they are suppose to hit the U.S. market?

Thanks

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The difference between the PN58B850 and the PN58B860...
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / April 19, 2009 11:36 AM PDT

kamots30,

The PNxxA860 units will only be available at a limited number of retailers, whereas the 850 will be widely available. The differences are that the 860 has a Cinema Smooth processor which allows for some smoother picture processing. The 860 will also have an additional calibration options for day and night use, which can be programmed and accessed by a professional calibrator.

Hope that helps.

--HDTech

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Good Question and good answer. Now how about this.....?
by unpaidintern / April 19, 2009 2:44 PM PDT

How about when they are supposed to be released? I've been waiting forever for these two plasma, as well as the UN55B8000 LED Lcd.

Anyone have any input on which way to go, the plasma 850/860b or the 8000 LED LCD? I do gaming and want it for BR movies. I've been on the fence on what to get. Its a big buy and I'm trying to do my research on them. I've heard that the B850 and the 8000 are supposed to be out in May and the 860 should be here in June. But when in May and when in June?

Out of these choices, any suggestions on which route to go? LCD 240hz LED or the UltraSlim ultra awsome 600hz Plasma? Does it even matter; maybe I should go with whatever comes out first?

Boo Samsung for leaving us hanging, a firm release date would be very nice! Don't make a Samsung fan have to resort to buy one of the few Pioneer Kuro's that are left out there; I'm getting rather impatient.

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Good Question and good answer. Now how about this.....?
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / April 19, 2009 8:03 PM PDT

unpaidintern,

Boo? Grin These aren't music CD's "Thursday Release" timetables here. But ask and ye shall receive!

UN55B8000 = End of April + Distribution into retail

The others I'll have some insight on tomorrow. Bump me if I don't respond by 3pm.

The 2ms response time on the UN55B8000 LED will be better than the 4ms on the tradidional LCD units, so maybe that will factor in your decision making.

Keep me posted!

--HDTech

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Bump
by unpaidintern / April 20, 2009 10:01 AM PDT

Bump... Any info on the others? Thanks for the info and response!

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un55b8000 or pn58b860?
by out31 / May 7, 2009 8:41 PM PDT

I was wondering if anyone has any input about these two, pn58b860 and un55b8000? I know I couldn't go wrong with either of these sets, but if anyone could let me know their opinon which would come out ahead. I have read the specs and still can't make a choice.

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Conflicting Information: PN58B850 vs PN58B860
by TubbyPoutine / April 23, 2009 11:02 AM PDT

Samsung_HD_Tech,
Thank you for your response here, however there is some conflicting information. Could you please set the record straight?
You say that the PN58B850 does not have Cinema Smooth, however Samsung website for this model says that it does have it: "Crystal Full HD Engine with Cinema Smooth?"
Proof is on the Product Page and on the Full Specs PDF:
Product Page:
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=plasmatv&model_cd=PN58B850Y1FXZA
Full Specs PDF:
http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2009/04/16/pn58b850y1fxza/PN58B850_032009_R13.pdf

To your point, the manual does say (on page 27) that Cinema Smooth is on the PN58B860 only).
Manual:
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200904/20090414185515265/BN68-02271A-00L03_0408.pdf

If the PN58B850 does indeed have Cinema Smooth, what are the differences between PN58B850 and PN58B860?
This info would also be much appreciated to the 35 page thread of users asking this question here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1108053&page=33

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Bump, bump bump bump buuuuuumpp.
by unpaidintern / April 23, 2009 12:58 PM PDT

Both the 850 and 860 are now on amazon.com, but not yet available to order. Says they are out of stock. Hmm, out of stock before they even got them, must be some nice tv's.

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Release dates for PNxxB850/860 models.
by kamots30 / April 28, 2009 3:20 AM PDT

HD Tech,

Any word on the release date(s) for the 850 & 860 plasmas yet? And do you have an answer for TubbyPoutine's questions?

thanks,
kamots30

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Can't wait for these either.
by John Grady / April 28, 2009 4:11 AM PDT

I made a thread exactly the same as this one and asked the release dates but never got an answer back.

So just sayin, don't hold your breath.

Thanks for the info on the differences though.

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Got info last week from Best Buy on expected ship date.
by unpaidintern / April 28, 2009 6:35 AM PDT

I talked to a guy at Best buy last week about when these were coming out and he wasn't sure. So I asked if we could look it up in the system. So we did some digging and the best buy warehouse had an expected date of May 10th. He said that the expected dates on Tv's are generally right on the money so I'm hoping this is true.

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Got info last week from Best Buy on expected ship date.
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / April 28, 2009 3:59 PM PDT

unpaidintern and forum,

First of all, John, I apologize for not getting back to you. I was hoping to have some of this information sooner, and it didn't happen in the timeframe that I expected it to.

Keep in mind that these are subject to change - and naturally, this is normally kept under wraps, so please... don't kill the messenger on this one. That messenger being... me. Agreed? Happy

The PN58B850 should already be here, and in the process of going through distribution, and the launch shouldn't be too far away. That's probably why it's on the website, with "Sold out". There aren't any to sell just yet. (Some websites default a 0-inventory status as "sold out", so hopefully that sheds some light)

The PN58B860 is supposed to launch around the same timeframe, and at this point, as someone pointed out, the retailers have a better idea of the status since they likely have the units in their warehouses.

The PN50B860 will be arriving after the other two product launches, and at this point, I can't disclose how much later.

Let me clarify the Smooth Cinema question. Again, I apologize for not having an answer for this sooner, but I don't want to give out conflicting information. I want to be absolutely 100% accurate when I give an answer, and that will take a few days.

--HDTech

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Will the cinema smooth be on the european models
by jenseike / May 3, 2009 11:34 PM PDT

Hi.. I see that you are mentioning that cinema smooth are only on the 860 model in us. What about europe? For ex, in germany the only model that are coming from the 8 series plasma is the PS-xxB859. I can see on the website that it say cinema smooth, but so does the us site for the 850.. Can you confirm that this 859 modell will also have cinema smooth... Or, can you compare the 860 to the onlt model in germany 859?

Jens

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Will the cinema smooth be on the european models
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 3, 2009 11:42 PM PDT

jenseike,

Cinema Smooth will be on the 850 and 860 models in the U.S.

I don't have U.S. vs. European comparisons, as I don't have European specifications, so I can't say that conclusively.

--HDTech

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IR
by jenseike / May 4, 2009 12:09 AM PDT

Ok... One more thing.. Can you please let me know how this tv is on IR (image retantion). Is is good ?

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IR
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 4, 2009 12:15 AM PDT
In reply to: IR

jenseike,

If the EU version is like the US verison, there will be some Screen Burn Protection options in the menu - and I believe there would be on all of the plasma units. This allows you to scroll whites and blacks, as well as bleach and use the pixel shift feature in the event you detect some image retention.

Plasma technology has come a long way, but leaving static images is still never a good idea for long periods of time.

--HDtech

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hmmm
by John Grady / May 4, 2009 12:26 AM PDT
In reply to: IR

Thaks a lot, Samsung!

You're the best.

I see that the 50b850's/58b850's are both available now, only at Best Buy though. That was pretty sudden.

So, just to clear things up and I don't spend an extra $100.00 dollars for no reason. The 850 AND 860 have cinema smooth? Because before you said only 860.

This would mean the only difference is the advanced calibration options in the 860. Right?

Thanks again for the info.

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woops
by John Grady / May 4, 2009 12:52 AM PDT
In reply to: hmmm

Nvm, I see you said they both have it a couple posts ago.

One more question though. This will be my first plasma purchase and I don't even have a second thought to go with LCD but how well are these plasmas going to be at reducing burn in?

I don't watch the news, or play video games for hours on end. The only thing that has me worried are movies that are letter boxed. I love a good long 3 hour movie and can't see a way to prevent burn in with black bars on there for a couple hours.

I guess you could use the zoon feature but that really ruins the movie experience and just does horrible things to the picture. Will I have to resort to watching half the movie now, turn it off or watch something that moves the whole screen than watch the rest of the movie later?

Thanks.

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woops
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 4, 2009 12:06 PM PDT
In reply to: woops

John Grady,

Yeah, sorry about that. But we're on the same page with the features. If you have any questions or would like to clarify, please let me know and I'll be happy to follow up.

I have a few posts here that I've written on the subject that I'll try to find, because there is a lot of concern with the technology.

In a nutshell, it's not as fragile as it used to be years ago, but it's also a very real issue that without proper care can degrade the experience long term.

The manual over-rides everyting I'm about to say, so if there's a discrepancy, the manual is correct. Happy

Watching a 3-hour letterboxed movie in a good calibraion isn't going to do harm to the picture. Leaving a DVD menu on the screen while you vacation in the mountains for the weekend is a different story. And it also depends if your settings are in "torch" mode (dynamic, amped, etc) or set lower to your tolerance (which reduces the chances of burn in).

A-ha! I found the thread I was looking for, and it was an exchange about new plasmas and warrantees. I'm a little obsessive when it comes to the break-in period, and settings and all that. That said, there are people who do the opposite and aren't necessarily harmed.

So read through this thread - I have a few posts in there - and if you have any questions, let me know and I'll be happy to answer them here. Happy

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_102-0.html?messageID=2942745&tag=forums06;search-results#2942745

--HDTech

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nice
by John Grady / May 4, 2009 1:07 PM PDT
In reply to: woops

Thanks a lot for that link, lots of useful information.

I'll have to sit on it and think of any questions. The only thing I have to say is owning a PDP sounds a lot like owning a pet! So much work.

But like another poster said in that thread, I wouldn't sacrifice better PQ just to be lazy and get an LCD.

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nice
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 4, 2009 1:40 PM PDT
In reply to: nice

John Grady,

We'll be here if you come up with any.

You know, in the big picture, the fact that you're aware of it, and concerned about it means that you're probably going to take care of your panel and be mindful enough to check it occasionally and not abuse it.

Just my thoughts. Remember, I'm obsessive, so I split hairs on all of this stuff, so for what that's worth.... Grin

--HDTech

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hmmm
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 4, 2009 11:42 AM PDT
In reply to: hmmm

John Grady,

Thanks for your kind words.

The preliminary specifications were different than what they ended up being, and I apologize for the confusion. I will fix that post - not to hide my error - but so that it doesn't become a source of confusion.

Both units will have Cinema Smooth. The difference is an additional calibration menu, and design.

--HDTech

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not there
by jenseike / May 4, 2009 3:08 PM PDT
In reply to: hmmm

I find that strange... I have talked to several people that have bought the 850 and they all say that it does not have the feature cinema smooth, it is not in the menu as it is on the 860... can you clarify this to me also?

Jens

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not there
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 5, 2009 12:54 PM PDT
In reply to: not there

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

I may have to eat crow a second time on this.

Just to "show once and for all" that the 850 had CinemaSmooth, I scoured the manual, and the manual notes that it's only on the 860(!). So since I don't have one in the office yet, I went to a local retailer to find the menu, and behold - it's not there!

[sigh]

Believe me, I'm not enjoying the normally spotless accuracy I enjoy on this issue. Eesh. I'm calling the big guys in on this one to get a final answer, and I will post it here.

There's no way to sugarcoat it (and I'm not one to do that anyway - most of you know this), so I apologize in advance for the inaccurate answers. I don't believe in PR terms like "there was a slight miscommunication" or "What happened was..." or passing the buck to "some specification malfunction". Plain and simple, I may have posted a wrong answer, and regardless of whose fault it was, I'll take the responsibility and any forthcoming criticism for it.

I will get an accurate and final answer VERY quickly. Specifically, I'd like to apologize to you, and John and the rest of the participants in this thread. I take accuracy very seriously - it is my #1 responsibility, and would like to maintain your trust for this, and every question that is asked here at the C|Net: Samsung Forums.

Humbly,

--HDTech

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Don't sweat it.
by John Grady / May 5, 2009 1:34 PM PDT
In reply to: not there

No problem Samsung, at least you're trying to help, and doing a great job at it anyways.

Since it is only a $100.00 difference, people shouldn't get angry about this misunderstanding. I could see people getting their hopes up and than being upset if it was say $400.00.

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NOT A PROBLEM
by jenseike / May 5, 2009 4:36 PM PDT
In reply to: not there

I agree.. it is not a problem - we all can make mistakes, i do them all the time my selfe...

But what I find strang is that samsung, not have included this feature in both their top models.... The feature is in all lower models.. This is strange and for samsung - I think that you will sell a lot less of the 850 because of this.. This is a feature included in all the other top brand's top models and you should have had it in the 850 for sure.. Can you maybe try to find the info why this is not included.. Also on the website pdf spec for the 850 it say that this is included and that is wrong information if its not..

Thanks for all your hard work trying to please us, I do think you do a great job

Jens

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Where the conflicting info is
by TubbyPoutine / May 6, 2009 2:07 PM PDT
In reply to: not there

See my earlier post in this thread (Post #6) that gives all the exact information as to where Samsung says the 850 DOES have Cinema Smooth and where Samsung says the 850 DOESN'T have Cinema Smooth.

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So does anyone even know what cinesmooth is?
by unpaidintern / May 6, 2009 2:45 PM PDT

My question is do you guys even know what cinesmooth is? I for one have no idea and doubt it's much more than another marketing label. I've spoken with a Samsung rep in their PR deptartment about these and the b8000 series extensivly for the last month and from what I'm told the majority of the lables such as cinesmooth, or the ever popular contrast ratio milli second resonse time are features that are will make such a little difference the human eye won't notice a diffence.

Don't get me wrong; I want the best and that's why I'm here. But from what I'm learning through all this resarch and review is that the biggest difference will be those whom have there tv professionally calibrated and those who don't.

Anyways, does anyone know who actually has these in stock yet? I have yet to find a retailer with these tv's in hand so I can see them with my own eyes.

Oh, and mr samung- if you don't mind me asking, do you work for samung, cnet or a dealer? Your help and concern for getting correct info is appreciated; I'm just curious.

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cinema smooth
by John Grady / May 6, 2009 11:54 PM PDT

Movies are shot at 24 frames per second. A TV with 24p mode, or cinema smooth, removes the jerkiness and judder from a movie.

The only retailer that I know of that has these in stock is Best Buy.

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So does anyone even know what cinesmooth is?
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 7, 2009 6:51 PM PDT

unpaidintern,

John hit it on the head.

I understand that there may be someone who might "downplay" a feature, and okay, let's face it - there is always "the other side of the story". So, to one person, a compelling story behind a new feature might be something that the next person would shrug off. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including your friend. But on many of the specifications, I'd have to respectfully disagree - names describe new features (or improvements of current features), and technical specification numbers mean things.

The 24Hz is important for film mode, as the films were originally shot at 24 frames per second. We listened to our customers - particularly the film enthusiasts who told us they wanted this feature to preserve the "true" movie experience, which is subjective - that is, until you ask an enthusiast. While an Average Joe might say, "pffft, it's a name" and never use the feature, an enthusiast is waiting for release dates and excited about it on the forums. No kidding, this is a make-it-or-break-it feature for some people because it's more than a name - it's an experience they really want.

Millisecond response time is significant. Find an LCD panel from even 2 years ago and compare it with what is available today as far as blur reduction and motion clarity. There's not even a comparison (well, again, that's my perception). The same goes for Dynamic Contrast Ratio. The black levels and color gamuts 3 years ago aren't even in the ballpark of what they are today. Now, I've been looking at panels professionally for 8 years, and there is a noticable human eye difference from even as soon as last year as there is today.

I don't mind you asking at all. I work directly within the company, as noted in the introduction post pinned at the top. I handle C|Net forums, and some areas of the Samsung.com website. All the more reason I want to make sure accuracy is spot on.

Instead of accepting "it's all marketing" as a blanket statement, ask questions and see for yourself - there is plenty of room for discussion, agreement and disagreement - no shortage of opinions here! There are a lot of people who can explain the difference, and why it matters, and maybe show you why it matters. If it still ends up being "just marketing" to you, and you can't see a difference, the worst thing that happens is you buy a model without the extra features and save some money.

--HDTech

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Where the conflicting info is
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / May 7, 2009 6:55 PM PDT

TubbyPoutine,

Thanks for putting that together - that took a lot of work, and I appreicate the effort you put into bringing that forward. I've taken that information, and am awaiting an answer.

--HDTech

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