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Plasma Burn in??

by Teezer / June 30, 2007 10:29 PM PDT

Ive been looking to buy a plasma to go with my PS3 but am worried about this "burn in" that i have heard about. Obviously with games i will be playing there is likely to be a stationary thing on the screen such as a HUD etc. Will this eventually burn onto the screen or does burn in only happen if you have the stationary icon etc showing on screen for hours at a time. I have seen the burn in effect when i played a game over a mates house some months ago...we had to keep switching of the tv and wait for the HUD to slowly disapear (this would be an obvious nuisence).

So is the burn in a big deal with plasmas or is it better just to go for and HD LCD TV instead??

Thanksfor any info

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Re:
by PrinceofDarkness13 / July 1, 2007 7:18 AM PDT
In reply to: Plasma Burn in??

unless you leave it the same for an extended period of time, its not a big deal especially on newer models.

LCD Is better for gaming ive heard tho.

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WHAT TH HELL? no way lcd sucks!
by gus738 / July 1, 2007 11:44 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:

man where you been? lcd suck they have too many issues motion blurr dead pixels clouds blacks suck and they also have burn in , which is image rentention

to the op you want best possible PQ its a crt but if you want a bigger tv the get a plasma !!!! the new pioneer pdp-5080 are the best you'll ever get and if you sit futher the 6-8ft then get a 720p as for the burn in its nearly impossible thanks to technology advancing but if it were to occur theirs an option that washes the burn in off.

go to avs.com become a member free check the forum sponsers and you can get that set for less then $2500 including extended warranty and it retails for $3500 at the stores (CC BB) and thats not even inclduing the warranty from stores

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Very Missinformed
by Lookn2find / July 1, 2007 9:34 PM PDT

Where have you done your studying? From your own mind? How about going to AVSForum.com and then come back with some more logic in the posts. It confuses people who havent actually studied. Almost every point you have made is bogus and not up to date.

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are you sure?
by gus738 / July 2, 2007 7:32 PM PDT
In reply to: Very Missinformed

i stand by my point lcds are still not nearly as close to PQ into plasma and plasma to this date still isnt crt quality (cusomer affortable price) and lcds stil have issues with the response even the new 120hz tech isnt enough, heck plasma now have a good anti reflective that makes the possiblities endless on why plasma vs a lcd is better. i mean think about it lcd are just better due to the bright lid situation < plasma has gotten to this point and lcd dont have as nearly as good Picture Quality so why is or what would be better on lcd then plasma? and dont say on the utility bill as its only minor and you cant expect great things from a low priced item "you get what you pay for"

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Actually, I think he probably is
by santuccie / July 9, 2007 8:42 PM PDT
In reply to: are you sure?

Do you even happen to know what is the highest resolution available in a consumer CRT? It ain't 1366, that's for sure. Another issue is pixel alignment. The only time when alignment really matters is where software games and other applications are concerned, wherein a grid is best. CRTs don't have the grid; their pixels are arranged like a brick wall on its side.

Plasma's advantages over CRT are resolution and contrast. Plasma's advantages over LCD are contrast, range of colors, greater angular viewability, and a lesser likelihood of dead pixels. But I've never heard of a burn-in with LCD. Do you even know how LCD works? The liquid crystals tilt to reflect the light at different gradients; they do not produce their own light. The light comes from a backlight!

As far as refresh rates are concerned, I'd be inclined to call that nitpicking. I don't personally know anyone whose eye is trained to the point where they can actually tell 60 Hz from 75 Hz, do you?

I concur with Lookn2find. I suggest you do your homework before throwing your opinion into the mix. Someone is looking for advice on how to spend their hard-earned money. Objective facts outweigh subjective narcissism here, sorry.

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burn in
by andiamo71 / July 1, 2007 7:38 AM PDT
In reply to: Plasma Burn in??

I can tell you this from my first hand experience with plasma tv's. I own a Samsung 42" plasma, which is the second plasma that i've owned (my first being a panasonic). Anyhow, I'm not a big gamer, BUT I watch a decent amount of sports, notably, the Yanks practically every night. I've had the Samsung less than 1 year, and have been watching baseball on it ONLY this season (3 months). I've started to notice a ghosting where they run the score along the top of the screen already! It hasn't gotten to the point where I can see it while watching other shows, but you can definitely see it there when that area of the screen is a very light color. I've tried some of the tv's features, like the white screen, and scrolling white/black that is supposed to take it away, to no avail. I also use the pixel shift feature in hopes of avoiding it. It's not going away. I'm actually going to have to buy an LCD in order to watch sports games on, because if I wait much longer, I will have a permenant score line on my screen. Game systems are MUCH worse, as i've got a friend who ruined his plasma playing Madden football (you could see the yard lines on his set at all times). I was surprised, because I thought the newer generation plasmas were less likely to get burn in...and I really don't think i've owned it long enough for this to have happened (but it is happening). I learned my lesson ($2500 later). In my humble opinion-play it safe, get yourself an LCD...the picture quality is very, very close, and cost is just a bit more, if not equal if you shop around or wait for a good sale.

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thanks for the info
by Teezer / July 1, 2007 9:32 AM PDT
In reply to: burn in

Cheers for that i will defo get an lcd then if that is the case. Thanks for the help!

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TEEZER, WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET AND WHAT SIZE LCD ARE YOU......
by Riverledge / July 1, 2007 10:01 AM PDT
In reply to: thanks for the info

PLANNING TO BUY? SONY XSRD should also be considered. Response time is
only 2.5ms; something to think about, anyway. They are very safe to game on. Less expensive than flat panel LLCDs.

Best shopping,
Riverledge.

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if u watch sports dont get lcd and old tvs suck
by gus738 / July 1, 2007 11:51 AM PDT
In reply to: burn in

that ghosting you saw must of been temporarly as it goes off after watching other content, however if you have an older or cheap tv this is what you get what you pay for Sad if you watch sports and you get lcd i guarnteed your going to get a plasma get due to motion blur! and lcd will burn too called image retention

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read the thread "what to buy lcd dlp pdp
by gus738 / July 1, 2007 11:53 AM PDT

sorry for mutiple post anyways read the thread where it says what to buy lcd dlp pdp trust me op plasma the way to go and if you want PQ get the pioneer pdp-5080

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MUST HAVE READ IT ON AVSF; BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH........
by Riverledge / July 1, 2007 12:55 PM PDT

THING AS A "LCD-DLP!"

I suggest looking for the "LED-DLP"; might be happier.

riv.

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led is a new tech
by gus738 / July 1, 2007 1:00 PM PDT

the led are new technology and its expensive also replacing stuff on a projection sucks too and quite costly fianlly wont offer as good PQ as a plasma

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YES, DLP-LED IS IN IT'S SECOND FULL YEAR OF PRODUCTION......
by Riverledge / July 1, 2007 1:12 PM PDT
In reply to: led is a new tech

SAMSUNG'S RESPONSE IS THAT THESE (
GEN2)SETS WILL LAST FOR 20,000 to 25,000 hours for the life of the set. Meaning, that when the LED board dies, so does the TV. IFFY AT THE BEST!


river.

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New technology?
by Kingp1n / July 11, 2007 11:05 PM PDT
In reply to: led is a new tech

LED is not a new technology, it's been around for many many years. It's just being used in a new way. Think about this, all the led's are doing is producing light correct? Which is the same job it was hand ever since it was made. All of you video processing comes from the DLP chip. Not the LED's. The manufactures claim that the life span is 20,000+ hours is completely believable, and possibly a conservative rating.

FYI, I have a Samsung 61" LED-DLP set and it is great.

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DLP
by Frosity / July 6, 2007 10:16 PM PDT

I HAVE SAMSUNG DLP, 50IN, 27IN, 23IN AND YOU CANT GET A BETTER PICTURE

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Read up, dude
by santuccie / July 9, 2007 8:52 PM PDT

LCDs do not suffer from burn-ins; they don't work that way. Read <a href="http://workstations.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=25497">this</a>. Do your homework, dude! You don't know what you're talking about.

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oops
by santuccie / July 9, 2007 8:53 PM PDT
In reply to: Read up, dude
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My First-Hand Experience...
by ns387241 / July 1, 2007 1:41 PM PDT
In reply to: burn in

I have bought two plasma displays (both of which I still have). I first bought a Pioneer PDP-5070HD, which at the time (when it first debuted) was the most spectacular picture I had ever seen. Since then, my pictorial tastes have grown, and the demand for a perfect viewing medium has arisen. This past February, I made the splurge for the Pioneer ELITE PRO-FHD1, and I have to tell you how amazed I am every time the TV gets turned on. My satasfaction aside, I do have some vintage gaming systems that I play quite frequntly on both plasmas. On the 5070, I have my SNES, which has many opportunities for image retention, yet to date I have encountered none. On my ELITE, I have a N64, which again, having no screensaver is really asking for it, but again, even after hours of continuous play, I am amazed to say that there is no image burn. I will have you keep in mind, however, that both my teles were assembled in the US from parts made in the US and Japan. There are few other teles that can claim that. In short, image retention is not something to worry about (I have tested static images off BluRay for as long as 26 hours, and no retention has occured on the 5070 or FHD. As for the response time of LCD's, I feel that even the 2.5ms response of the SXRD (Lowest of any LCD to date) is annoyingly unacceptable, especially with sports and sweeping cinematographies, such as the documentary "Planet Earth". Anything above 2.5ms is worse, and with response times up to 16ms, banding issues, clouding issues, expense, physical sensitivity, and Crayola-esque colors, there is no question LCD televisions are amoung the least established and least reliable of any TV technology. Along with being unnaturally bright in dark areas (even when toned down), the LCD's also gradate far less efficiently than the plasmas. There is no doubt the LCD's have lost this battle. As a side note, I have begun to use my 5070 as a computer monitor, which has turned out okay, but I think I might use an LCD for that from now on (LCD's show better detail in stills, but in motion they are ****).

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great post now this is what the op should pay attention
by gus738 / July 1, 2007 3:33 PM PDT

great post man yep like the saying "you get what you pay for" and pioneer builts stuff from japan and other cheaper brands dont results like this are examples. plasmas are getting to a point where they cant be burn in and if they could theirs ways to clean this, Also people can use the "break in disc" from avs.com and make the chances almost non existent. And i agree lcds have too many errors/flaws and i ask my self why are people in denial...

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i would like to comment
by woodygg / July 3, 2007 1:18 AM PDT

that these posts relating to where parts are built (origin) and who builds them are generally out in left field. almost all parts in electronics come from malaysia, china, etc. this includes high end and 'low end' parts. in addition, most manufacturing is done through automated processes.

in other words, this isn't your old made in america (e.g. pontiac pos) and toyota...

most manufacturers have their products built in low cost scenarios (see again, china, malaysia, etc.)... and the products are equal to any built anywhere else in the world (speaking in generalities here, as well as primarily circuit board assembly)

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I would like to correct...
by ns387241 / July 5, 2007 11:37 AM PDT

That if you have ever taken the time to read the rear of the plasma panels, you will note that they not only tell you where they were assembled, bit where the parts originated as well. Both my Pioneer Plasmas say they are assembled in the United States with Parts made in the US and Japan. These teles are no piece-of-**** Maxents or Westinghouses. They are truly the patriot's televisions in every respect, from origin to ultimate quality.

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see my post again...
by woodygg / July 6, 2007 2:51 AM PDT

it still stands.

the product is as good as it's designed - and many of the products you perceive to be 'high end' are made in places you are inferring would be associated with 'cheap'

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I agree
by ns387241 / July 6, 2007 8:13 AM PDT
In reply to: see my post again...

Quality does pertain to the design, HOWEVER, I have not seen anything out of Malaysia or Mexico lately that has caught my eye in terms of quality.If you really would like quality, then you would look toward either Pioneer (as I have), Runco, or Dreamvision. These are the three top plasma manufacturers in the world as of 07/06/2007. They make the highest quality teles in Amerca, The UK or France, take your pick. They are all assembled in country of origin, not outsourced (which I have only found has resulted in lesser quality, e.g. Sony outsourcing to China). Find a plasma with such quality as to beat the three manufacturers forementioned, or retract your statement.

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i am not limiting
by woodygg / July 6, 2007 9:20 AM PDT
In reply to: I agree

my converstions to plasmas (never was - nor did i say i was)

i'm talking electronics manufacturing in general.

outsourcing has not resulting in reduced quality. almost every electronics manufacturer outsources their products - they all get put together on the same machines! from the same basic components (most of which are made in china!).

by the way, the many of the panasonic plasmas have been made in China for a number of years now.

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And Panasonic Plasmas
by ns387241 / July 11, 2007 2:53 PM PDT
In reply to: i am not limiting

Barely compare to Samsung and Fujitsu, let alone the likes of Pioneer, Runco and Dreamvision. I know consumer Reports rates Panasonics highly, but they're just plain dull and lifeless! They are also one of the few plasmas I have managed to get a permanent image burn (the 50" 750 series). Again, I ask you if you can produce a product in China or elsewhere that compares to the likes of Pioneer, Dreamvision and Runco.

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your
by woodygg / July 12, 2007 12:25 AM PDT
In reply to: And Panasonic Plasmas

bias is showing (the panasonic comment about dull, etc. that's a bunch of b.s.) - not to mention you keep changing the rules - how convenient.

you may know a great deal about some things (and you certainly appear to - and many of your posts have been quite informative).

but you don't know much, if anything, about manufacturing (it happens to be the field i'm in - we manufacture extremely high quality products in Mexico and Malyasia - location has NOTHING to do with the quality today. that's okay, it's not an insult - there's lots that we all don't know about.

you missed my point entirely.

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most brands but not PIONEER
by gus738 / July 7, 2007 5:20 PM PDT

that maybe true that other brands are made all over the world but check pioneer out they are only in JAPAN with usa assble (parts again from JAPAN)

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PIONEER ELITE PLASMA HDTVs ARE THE WAY TO GO!!!
by SuperFist / July 5, 2007 11:41 AM PDT
In reply to: Plasma Burn in??

Hey, fellas. I bought a Pioneer 42" Elite PureVision Plasma after about 2 years of research on HDTVs. My cousin, who's a manager at Best Buy in the Magnolia Home Entertainment Center, told me about Pioneer being the leading manufacturer of Plasma HDTVs around 3 years ago, but I didn't believe him. Since then I have tried to find a LCD or Plasma display that could even come close to the Pioneer models and I never have!

I've always wondered why and how the Plasma HDTVs that Pioneer sells, which technically have a lower screen resolution than 1080p LCDs or Plasmas by other manufacturers (42in - 1024 X 768; 50 & 60in - 1365 X 768), look far better than the competition. The reason is Moving Pixel Resolution. When HDTVs are advertised as 720p or 1080p, they are referring to the resolution of a Still Image on the screen, not a Moving Image, which has far less resolution! Wow! I would have never found that out unless I saw a Pioneer Plasma display...which is out of this world! Don't take my word for it! Go to any Best Buy and tell the sales associate to put a Pioneer Elite Plasma next to any 1080p display, LCD or Plasma, by any other manufacturer, and I guarantee YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!!!!

I primarily bought this Pioneer Elite Plasma to play games with my PS3 and Xbox 360 which I've had since last December with no sign of burn-in problems. I've researched this TV thoroughly and have never found any complaints about it showing any possible signs of burn-in. The picture from games via component video, HDMI and HD broadcast are absolutely gorgeous and mind boggling! I've recommended these Pioneer Elite Plasma HDTVs to, literally, all of my friends and have had a few of them investigate for themselves and, as a result, have purchased them.


The information below explains more about Moving Pixel Resolution.

______________________________________________________________

http://www.advanced-pdp.jp/news/e_01.html

Media Contact::
Toyoo Kanai
Advanced PDP Development Center Corporation (Japan)
+81-(0)3-5225-6436
January 9, 2007

ADVANCED PLASMA DEVELOPMENT CENTER DEVELOPS SYSTEM TO MEASURE ACTUAL
MOVING PIXEL RESOLUTION IN HDTVs

- Method enables precise quantitative analysis of moving picture resolution -


Las Vegas - The Advanced PDP Development Center Corporation or APDC, jointly established by Hitachi, Ltd., Panasonic and Pioneer Corporation, to promote the development of advanced engineering and manufacturing technologies for Plasma displays, today announced that it has developed a Moving Picture Resolution Measurement System. The system is based on the APDC Method announced on October 18, 2006. The system makes it possible to precisely measure moving picture resolution, In fact, currently, the claim of 1080p resolution in many HDTVs is based on the number of picture elements, or pixels, visible when a still picture is displayed on the screen, which is not the same as the HDTV?s moving picture resolution.

The new system to measure moving picture resolution includes a digital camera, signal generator, a controller PC and image data processing software. In the process, (1) a specified test image is scrolled on the display to simulate a moving picture, (2) the movement of the camera is adjusted to the movement of the image so that it can be captured and (3) the image is then captured by the digital camera, analyzed and expressed mathematically to indicate the precise moving picture resolution.

Since the APDC measurement method simulates the way the human eye works, reconstructing the image reflected on the retina, the result of the quantitative analysis is very close to the way people see images.

With the increasing penetration of digital cameras and PCs, consumers are getting much more interested in the resolution of their televisions. Until now, the resolution of HDTV displays has been commonly expressed by the number of pixels in a still picture shown on the display. There were no clear criteria to measure the moving picture resolution of an HDTV. Since the major application for television is to show moving pictures, the newly developed measurement system will help consumers better understand the issue of resolution and what they can expect from their flat-panel or other HDTVs.

The new measuring system is applicable to any display including Plasma and LCD TVs. APDC plans to propose the use of this measurement system to all display and TV manufacturers as it will enable the improvement of performance of flat-panel TV displays through the objective and quantitative measurement of their moving picture resolution.

APDC plans to collaborate with measuring equipment manufacturers to launch the newly developed system in the market. Also, it plans to demonstrate the system in the APDC Suite (Otho Room, Palace Tower Emperors Level-4th floor, Caesars Palace Hotel Casino, Las Vegas, NV, USA) from January 8 to 10, 2007.
______________________________________________________________

It's really not that complicated. Plasma, especially by Pioneer, handles motion better than LCD (even with 120Hz) - no question. However, consumers see higher resolution or 1080p in some LCD sets and think it's "better". That's if you only watch still images on your TV!

APDC is just trying to send out the truth. If you guys knew how manufacturers really calculate things like response time and contrast ratios you'd probably never believe a spec again.

In the end a lot of it is about the average educated consumer who is greatly affected by marketing and this plasma group is fighting a tough road... even though they're correct.

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Burn in
by GFW / July 6, 2007 2:16 PM PDT
In reply to: Plasma Burn in??

I recently saw the beginnings of Menu burn-in on a plasma screen that was only 6-8 months old. It showed up only when the image on the screen was white or light (blue sky, etc.) but it stands to reason that the menu (cable menu, in this case) will be on the screen with great frequency.

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Prose and Consternation
by orthotox / July 6, 2007 3:27 PM PDT
In reply to: Plasma Burn in??

Plasma: burn-ins still an issue, otherwise explain why Pioneer's web site suggests movies be viewed full screen in order to obviate the potential of letterbox burn-in? Think of it: the "ultimate movie experience" that begins by clipping the picture. Brilliant, Pioneer! Also not discussed here: reflection off palasma screens often intreferes with viewing pleasure, whereas the dulled surface of LCD minizes this annoyance. Finally, in a general context, always edifying to see people hot to critique the very best that quality engineering has to offer, while they themselves can't muster even the most basic effort to compose a literate sentence!

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