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OOPS! they finally acknowledge that

by Steven Haninger / March 30, 2012 10:27 PM PDT
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I'm still wondering...
by J. Vega / March 31, 2012 6:29 AM PDT

Trayvon Martin bought his tea and Skittles at a 7-11 just before the shooting. 7-11's have security cameras that are taped. I'm still wondering why I haven't seen reporters thinking of that and asking about the tape. Such a tape would seem to be a good way to accurately know what Martin looked like just before the shooting.

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RE: accurately know what Martin looked like
by JP Bill / March 31, 2012 6:49 AM PDT
In reply to: I'm still wondering...
\accurately know what Martin looked like just before the shooting.

just before the shooting OR when he was in the store?

Looked like?...What he was wearing? (is there any question about that?) His eyes were "glazed over"? ( I don't think the video would have the resolution to show that)

We have access to police video...no agreement on what is shown...why would 7-11 video be any more convincing?

WHAT would it show?

Him attempting a holdup and running out the door?

Give some examples of what "evidence" would be shown.

Him stealing some Iced tea and a bag of skittles?

Did Zimmerman know about the shoplifting and that's the reason he shot him?
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resolution
by James Denison / March 31, 2012 4:01 PM PDT

are you sure the video wouldn't have resolution to determine "glazed over eyes"? Did you think the video in the police station had enough resolution to determine no bumps on Zimmerman's head? Wouldn't it be funny if they used the same camera equipment?

Why do you assume shoplifting? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Since he had change in his pocket I'd be inclined to think he'd not lifted the items, probably left with a couple bills from his Dad's girl friend's house.

Anyone know where his Dad was during all of this? On the road, or at the girl friend's place too? If the Dad has a place in Miami, and if he wasn't there, why would he have left Trayvon there instead of at Trayvon's mother's house?

I suspect any lifting had nothing to do with Zimmerman shooting him unless he'd been in the store and seen it. Do you think Zimmerman was there?

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Thought, James...
by J. Vega / March 31, 2012 5:33 PM PDT
In reply to: resolution

A 7-11 video might show him talking with someone, and of greater interest, did he leave the store with anyone. In such a case, finding and interviewing that person could yield valuable information. Like which way did he go when he left the store, did they see anybody else in that direction or other such things.

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It's worth investigating
by James Denison / March 31, 2012 5:39 PM PDT
In reply to: Thought, James...

Hopefully the police have requested any video in the store that night.

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My ex-wife...
by J. Vega / March 31, 2012 5:52 PM PDT

My ex-wife managed one and in addition to cameras inside the store, there was one just outside of the door showing the entire sidewalk at the front as well as those focused on the gas pumps. Such cameras could also show people with whom he interacted, and they could possibly provide more information.

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News reports are all over the place
by Steven Haninger / March 31, 2012 7:44 PM PDT
In reply to: resolution

I know I read at least one suggesting the convenience store run was during some basketball 1/2 time and that Jayvon was with his father's girlfriend. Another suggested the three of them were there. Another suggested he was looking for his father's girlfriends place and is why, as Zimmerman stated in the 911 call, that he was "looking around". We don't know where the dad lived or was staying. We don't know if he and girlfriend were both living there together or whether or not Jayvon was or should have been familiar with the complex. What was reported is that Jayvon was there because he was suspended from his Miami school for some disciplinary reasons. He may have lived with his mom...who knows.

Anytime I see where a kid gets in trouble at school but comes from a broken home, I tend to feel bad for that child and look at parenting as one of the underlying causes for bad choices made. Teens make lots of bad choices without having to deal with the emotions of parental discord.

BTW, "making bad choices" is the PC term for sc**wing up...but you knew that.

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the Dad
by James Denison / March 31, 2012 11:00 PM PDT

I read the father had a place in Miami near his former wife's house so Trayvon could have both parents available to him. Then I read that Trayvon is miles away at a girl friend's house. I also read the father was a truck driver, not sure of what sort, a local delivery or long haul type. So, how did he meet this girlfriend who lived in Sanford? Along his trucking route? She move there from Miami? Why was Trayvon there instead of at a parent's home? Was the father there? Or was he in Miami or doing a truck route at the time? We really don't know what was going on before Trayvon left to the store nor where his parents were at the time and no reason given for why he was at his father's girlfriend house. Was the father living there now? Was he there in Sanford the night his son was shot? One report said the family wasn't located and notified till 3 days after Trayvon was shot. Why did it take that long? Nobody in Sanford reported him missing? Did the girlfriend of the father assume he'd run off and left her place? Was Trayvon there because he wanted to be there, or just got dumped there? Was he dumped there to get him out of Miami to break connections to other people he knew there which his parents felt were a bad influence on him? I think that's a real possibility and would explain why he was there while his father might have still been in Miami or out driving a truck.

So much has been done to try and determine Zimmerman's state of mind at the time, but very little done to determine that of Trayvon and what was going on in his life.

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There was a delay...
by J. Vega / April 1, 2012 6:31 AM PDT
In reply to: the Dad

According to news reports I saw made before this blew up to the level it has Martin did not have any ID on his person. This caused a delay in identifying him. The police got a positive ID by showing a picture to one of his parents. When that was done a local NBC affiliate TV report said that his father had traveled there from Miami and talked with the police, so it would appear that his father was in Miami. It said that his father listened to the 911 tapes and the voice calling for help was not the voice of his son. However, this story went national to the degree it has, and now the family says that it was his voice.

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It said that his father listened to the 911 tapes
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 7:00 AM PDT
In reply to: There was a delay...

It said that his father listened to the 911 tapes and the voice calling for help was not the voice of his son.

This is getting REALLY CRAZY.

Even for me.

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Are you branching out from writing comedy to Soap operas?
by JP Bill / March 31, 2012 8:54 PM PDT
In reply to: resolution
Anyone know where his Dad was during all of this? On the road, or at the girl friend's place too? If the Dad has a place in Miami, and if he wasn't there, why would he have left Trayvon there instead of at Trayvon's mother's house?

Stay tuned tomorrow for the next episode of "As The World Turns"
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None of that matters AT ALL
by Josh K / March 31, 2012 11:49 PM PDT
In reply to: resolution

All that matters is what transpired between him and Zimmerman. You're trying to introduce irrelevant details based on pure speculation. That trick worked really well for the OJ Simpson defense, by the way.

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No
by James Denison / April 1, 2012 12:01 AM PDT

Through these entire discussions about the shooting I've been trying to provide equality for Zimmerman's side of things, while keeping it separate from the blatant racist attacks against Zimmerman from the Liberal Left. If Zimmerman's past and state of mind is to be examined, then so should Trayvon's. Why do Liberals always have such a problem with Equality? After all, Fairness is an older word for Equality, but Liberals don't really want to be Fair about this event.

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Zimmerman did the shooting
by Josh K / April 1, 2012 12:26 AM PDT
In reply to: No

Trayvon Martin does not have a history of violence. Zimmerman does. Zimmerman would have had no way of knowing whether Trayvon shoplifted (a suggestion you pulled out of thin air), and since Zimmerman was not in uniform, even if Trayvon had committed a crime earlier, there would have been no reason for him to think Zimmerman was a cop.

You're so cute when you accuse other people of racism.

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I don't believe
by TONI H / April 1, 2012 5:08 AM PDT

that either of these men were racists and met up with the predetermined decision that the color of their skin from either side was the cause of this tragedy. I believe fear on both sides was escalated in a confrontation...Zimmerman had the gun, but in the dark was there any way for Zimmerman to know that Martin didn't also have one or at the very least a knife that he 'could' have pulled out during the initial physical fight? I know you don't want to even consider this, but 'hoodies' DO have a large front pocket that goes all the way across or at least two very deep ones (I have seen both types). Zimmerman had the presence of mind to call 911.....Martin did not it seems since I still haven't heard anything or seen a 911 transcript indicating he did. So you have to ask, if Martin was afraid, why didn't he? Zimmerman's 'history of violence' doesn't amount to the type you would associate with someone who is carrying a weapon and just walking around looking for somebody to shoot for the hell of it, Josh.

I think this incident has turned into the same type of situation that happened to the guy the FBI flaunted to the world over the Olympics bombing....it ruined his life and he wasn't even involved. Only this time, the news media is the one trashing somebody that the police themselves, and the local District Attorney, don't believe they can bring to a trial.

Did Zimmerman deliberately shoot to kill....or did he hope to shoot and disable and it went tragically wrong? There are lots of people out there who carry a weapon at night especially for personal protection.....that doesn't mean that they are hoping to make that shot. If somebody came at me, punched me in the face and banged my head on the concrete a couple of times, I would pull and shoot my weapon too. The fact is, he DIDN'T shoot until AFTER that confrontation happened, so you can't make him out to be the attacker here.

We weren't there......and too many are making assumptions that even the police can't climb to get to them.

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ONE thing is for sure
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 6:09 AM PDT
In reply to: I don't believe

Zimmerman knew HE had a gun.

he DIDN'T shoot until AFTER that confrontation happened, so you can't make him out to be the attacker here.

HE followed Martin.....HE admitted that....IF he didn't follow, the confrontation would not have happened.

Martin was the one who didn't know who had a gun....Zimmerman knew HE had a gun...that's all that mattered to him. HE wasn't going to be outweaponed...unless Martin had rocket launcher.


IF you think it still would have happened (IF he didn't follow Martin)...give a reason why Martin would have turned around and confronted Zimmerman.

Zimmerman followed him, was told he didn't need to...he felt he did......end of story.

When I go for a walk and have no reason to think anyone is following me or going to do me harm...I keep on going where I'm headed, and don't give them a second thought. How bout you?

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Most
by TONI H / April 1, 2012 7:42 AM PDT
In reply to: ONE thing is for sure

Neighborhood Watch people DO follow people they feel 'don't belong there' for some reason or because they are acting 'suspiciously'. They follow to find out if that person has a legitimate destination and reason to be there. Zimmerman DID call 911....even if he was told he didn't NEED to follow him, there was always a 'risk' that if the police didn't arrive in time, Martin 'could' have committed a crime and possibly gotten away with it. Then IF that had happened, there would have been a totally DIFFERENT outcry from the public because it could have been stopped ahead of time. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If Martin felt threatened by being followed, why didn't HE call 911 or head back to the house of the girlfriend...or knock on somebody else's door and ask them for help? So what if Zimmerman knew HE had a gun? He didn't use it until he was attacked by Martin. Zimmerman had no way of knowing if Martin had a weapon of any kind but STILL didn't use his weapon until he was attacked by Martin...and that's according to not only Zimmerman but other witnesses. Which is why he wasn't arrested.

To be honest with you, it sounds as if Martin was a kid already suspended from school, had two parents who didn't want to deal with him and he was dropped off at the father's girlfriend's house like she was a babysitter. Also, according to the following link, Martin was taller by quite a bit than Zimmerman, even though Zimmerman outweighed him. Perhaps Martin thought foolishly that he could intimidate Zimmerman enough to make him stop following him, and if that does turn out to be the case, it's an absolute tragedy that didn't have to happen because he could have just kept on walking and being followed.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017887566_trayvonmartinfacts02.html

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Audio experts say voice heard screaming not Zimmerman
by Josh K / April 1, 2012 9:10 AM PDT
In reply to: Most
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, one of whom told MSNBC on Sunday that he believes the evidence is strong enough to use in court.

"The tests concluded that it's not the voice of Mr. Zimmerman," Tom Owen, of Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told MSNBC.

Asked if he thought such tests would be admissible in court, Owen said "yes" and noted he had recently used similar testing in testimony at a Connecticut murder case that involved 911 call.


They were not able to conclude that it was Trayvon Martin because they didn't have a reference sample of his voice to compare.
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It was...
by J. Vega / April 1, 2012 12:35 PM PDT

It was a 48 percent match, and I wouldn't think that was enough to prove a positive match either. But I think that we should bear in mind that in a court setting, failure to show a positive match may not automatically prove a definate exclusion.
Thought. Remember the possibility of a 7-11 security tape? A great any of them also record audio as well s the video. Such a tape might provide a reference sample of Trevon Martin's voice for comparison if he happened to say anything at the register. It's another reason for checking for the existence of such a tape.
In any case, I understand that on 10 April the Grand Jury will consider the case and we can see what they find.

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More news media for ratings' sake
by TONI H / April 1, 2012 9:29 PM PDT

>>>They were not able to conclude that it was Trayvon Martin because they didn't have a reference sample of his voice to compare.>>>

Martin's own father determined when he first heard the tape that it WASN'T his son's voice calling for help. He didn't need a reference sample to know his own son's voice. It wasn't until a few days later when the publicity started rolling heavily that the Martin 'family' came forward to say it WAS Martin, and nobody's heard from the dad since about this discrepancy.

I don't know about anybody else, but as a mother of four, I ALWAYS knew which kid's voice was coming from behind a closed bedroom door and agitating a sibling. I can tell the difference between my dogs when they are barking outside to know which one it is. I don't care how many experts you get on listening to audio feed through muffled cellphones during a scuffle to a 911 operator....a parent knows their kid's voice. I have more faith in the father's original statement than the tape experts at this point.

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Decent piece of writing, IMO
by Steven Haninger / April 1, 2012 9:36 AM PDT
In reply to: Most

Thanks for posting what's probably the most comprehensive and least judgmental summary of the events in this case.

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convolutions.
by James Denison / April 1, 2012 10:48 AM PDT
In reply to: Most
"The Fort Lauderdale funeral director who handled the arrangement for Trayvon's family has told reporters that he saw no bruises or blood on the teen's knuckles."

He was laying face down on wet grass, and it was raining. Why would anyone expect to find blood on his knuckles under those conditions?! One report said his hand or hands were under him, which most certainly would have ended up putting his own blood on his hands if it wasn't for the wet grass and rain probably removing that. It's also possible any blood on the hands were removed when his body was picked up, or by the sheet they'd have placed over him in the ambulance. So, the funeral director's comments probably are true, but completely without any merit as regards "evidence" regarding the shooting.

Why should Trayvon be surprised someone was following him since the neighborhood has large signs posted about the Neighborhood Watch? He probably passed at least one both going and coming back. He wasn't illiterate.

meanwhile, here's another case of a lovable teen. "It's all a Lie!"(cousin) Bring in the clowns!
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Kids today
by James Denison / April 1, 2012 11:19 AM PDT
In reply to: Most
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RE: Then IF that had happened,
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 12:14 PM PDT
In reply to: Most

Then IF that had happened, there would have been a totally DIFFERENT outcry from the public because it could have been stopped ahead of time.[/b

AND everything you predicted DIDN'T happen.

He certainly did stop anything that "could have happened"..He didn't stop anything that WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

Shoot first, ask questions later come to mind.


When I go hunting, first thing I do after getting out of the vehicle and getting my rifle...Shoot into the woods...just in case there's a deer in there somewhere.

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RE: want to be Fair
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 4:44 AM PDT
In reply to: No

What's fair about bringing a gun to a fist fight?

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making assumptions again
by James Denison / April 1, 2012 10:12 AM PDT
In reply to: RE: want to be Fair

having a gun for self defense does not assume heading out the door to a fist fight. It also doesn't mean someone who does decide to attack somehow gets a freebie just because the other person is armed. It's going to be so disappointing for you when you finally discover it's not anything like what you so badly want it to be. Prepare to be disappointed.

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RE: Prepare to be disappointed.
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 12:53 PM PDT

The ONLY way I would be disappointed is if they don't give Zimmerman a fair trial.

How bout you...You think he should have a trial?

Or have you declared him innocent without a trial?

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Based on what I've read so far
by James Denison / April 1, 2012 1:32 PM PDT

I see no need for any trial.

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So you've declared him innocent without a trial.
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 1:36 PM PDT

IF you were Zimmerman...

Why wouldn't you want a trial...I would be a validation of your innocence.

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(NT) I should say Not Gulty instead of innocent.
by JP Bill / April 1, 2012 1:40 PM PDT
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