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Need Help Deciding, Ipod or Vision:M?

by Perfectdarkmini / August 24, 2006 4:47 AM PDT

I have read other forums and other peoples advice but I'm still in a dillema.

I am currently using the iPod Mini and wishing to upgrade to the new 30gb iPod or the Vision:M. I was wondering what kind of software does the ZVM use because I love the clean and sleek integration of the iTunes with the iPod. I was also worried that it would be a big hassle to transfer music from the iTunes to another software if I decide on a non-Apple product like the ZVM. Another question is that I already know how thin and light the iPod is but what about the ZVM? Does it also have the pretty slick look and interface. I chose to buy the iPod or the ZVM cause I knew the ZVM didn't attract as much scratches as the iPod and I want to know is there a real difference between these players scratch-wise? I dont want to spend TOO much time trying to protect my player more than using it. So which one should I go for??? PLEASE HELP and THANK YOU!

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there are many topics EXACTLY like this
by woohoo22 / August 24, 2006 7:04 AM PDT

probably on the first page too. rather than starting another flame war, just do a search, and you'll probably find all you need.

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(NT) (NT) woohoo22 is right, but: wait for new products this fall
by udayan71 / August 24, 2006 9:07 AM PDT
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zen vision m or toshiba, gigbeats
by billli726 / August 25, 2006 8:41 AM PDT

I recommand you not get an ipod. I personally do not like ipod due to its low quality battery (many people report that their ipod battery dies in one year) and it is hard to replace. Second, Ipod can not compete with zen or gigbeat in video playback (zen vision m is the best out of the three). I own Zen vision m, and I love it. It's great but the software can be difficult sometimes. Hope you make the right choose.

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Exactly what causes flame war....
by daveworld / August 25, 2006 2:00 PM PDT


Both the Zen:VM and iPod uses the same lithium ion battery (just like Dell, Apple, HP uses the same Sony battery it Laptops thats been getting news). You hear more about the iPod problems because of its large share (75%+). You can find DIY on how to replace the battery on cnet. And as little as $25 gets you a new battery:


The Zen:VM battery is also built-in the same way as iPod, even though their earlier players had easily replaceable battery, go figure.

That being cleared, the Zen:VM is a good alternative to the iPod, but it does have its flaws.

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not true
by jchrismen / August 26, 2006 6:22 AM PDT

both ipod and Zen vision:m do have lithuim rechargable batteries they are not the same type which you infer. The ipod has only 2 hours of video while the ZVM has 4.5 hours of battery life (thats quite a difference) .And the ZVM never had replaceable batteries which you stated.I am also not here to start a flame war but really please don't state facts about the ZEn vision:m which are not true. and 75 percent market share value only applies to the US not the whole world, in south korea apple only has a 8 percent share.

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by daveworld / August 26, 2006 10:42 AM PDT
In reply to: not true

I stated Creative earlier players had easily interchangeable (replaceable) batteries, they choose for some reason not to have the same on the Zen vision:m. The poster where saying iPods batteries where hard to replace. In that case, the Zen Visin: M battery is also hard to replace.

Lithium Ion Battery last typically 1 to 5 years. They may not be the exact same type but are you saying the Vision: M has some super Lithium battery that last way longer? If I am wrong here, can you provide a link that shows how long Creative's battery typicaly last?

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ZVM Battery Life
by Barrister33 / September 1, 2006 11:34 PM PDT
In reply to: OK

Here's a quote from the 1/26/06 PC Mag review:

"Despite its excellent video capabilities, the Zen Vision:M appears to us to be primarily an audio player, given its size and the existence of the Zen Vision. With that in mind, we were hoping for significantly more battery life for continuous audio playback than the 12 hours 45 minutes we got. (Creative's claim is 14 hours using only 128-Kbps MP3s, but our test uses a more realistic mix of files at 128 Kbps to 320 Kbps.) As for video battery life, the player lasted 4 hours and 20 minutes, which is substantially better than the iPod's 2 hours and thirty minutes of video playback."

Looks like the battery life is a plus with the ZVM if video is your thing, but if you're buying it for the music the battery is not a huge issue.

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16 hours for audio
by cork2win / September 2, 2006 2:16 AM PDT
In reply to: ZVM Battery Life

I have all my songs at mp3 128kbps. so it would have as creative claim 16 hours for audio, now try and say that that is bad battery life, also to say that the the aen's screen ia a LITTLE better than the ipod is way off, here are the two screens side by side as well as a small comparison of the zen and the ipod:

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You mean 14 hours
by daveworld / September 4, 2006 1:59 AM PDT
In reply to: 16 hours for audio

First: Creative claims their battery last 14 hours playing mp3 not 16 (30 gig). Second: I know a little about graphics and the link you provide shows a deliberately washed-out iPod and they added more contrast to the Zen. Yes the Zen has more colors but that was obviously exaggerated.

Here is the surprise from their site:
WMA playtime is horrible!

Up to 8 hrs playtime (WMA, 64kbps, 4mins/ song)

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do you work for apple?
by jchrismen / September 4, 2006 8:18 AM PDT
In reply to: You mean 14 hours

those screen shots were not exaggerated.Anyone knows
the vision:m has a 265000 colour screen while the ipod has only 65,000 and that makes a big difference.It seems it is you so hard to accept the truth that you are clinging to straws? i have seen both units side by side and it is no contest that the zen vision wins as a superior player in sound quality ( 97 s/n ratio) better video capabilties and more features

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And Also....
by Perfectdarkmini / August 25, 2006 11:31 AM PDT

I LOVE the slick design of the iPod and the integration of iTunes and nobody has actually answered this question yet (at least in the forums I have looked in :P) Is my iPod going to get scratched alot? and do I have to purchase a skin to protect it? How bad is the condition really??? Please Help. Planning to buy pretty soon. Thank You!

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by daveworld / August 25, 2006 2:34 PM PDT
In reply to: And Also....

Highly recommended you get a screen, if you decide on the iPod. The Zen:VM is also scrachable but I don't think as easily as the iPod. The plus: With so many accessories for the iPods, you can get a skin for real cheap, thanks to competition.

If you like iTunes then I would say go with the iPod. These two go together like white on rice. Plus iTunes is growing with content everyday, and movies will be coming soon. One stop shop for music, free podcast, audiobooks, TV shows, music videos, etc all in one place ready to sync with the iPod. It does not get easier than this. Zen:VM does not support audiobooks, and to put other content on the player, you have to use a few different services.

I've yet to see anything that works as good as or better than the iPod's click wheel.

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i can't stand the click wheel
by woohoo22 / August 26, 2006 11:27 AM PDT
In reply to: iPod

while i agree it's a great tool, it's definitely not the best either. unlike touchstrips, it doesn't have power scrolling. it's bad when you have 60GB collection and you need to go through a lot of songs.

i also think mediamonkey is better than itunes, and it's compatible with most devices, including the iPod. Though iTunes music store is unmathed.

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I love it
by daveworld / August 26, 2006 12:45 PM PDT

BTW: iPod had its own "Fast Scrolling" since the first iPod in 2001. The more you scroll, the faster you scroll. I have 1500 songs on my iPod; I just tested it and it took 3 seconds of continuous scroll to reach the bottom of the list.

Here is my problem with Creative's touch strip: It is used for both scrolling and selecting, not good. Maybe I have heavy hands but to many times when I scroll, I ended up selecting something I did not want. Even after changing the sensitivity.

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by Perfectdarkmini / August 26, 2006 11:58 AM PDT
In reply to: iPod

If I'm purchasing a skin for the iPod, which brand do uou recommend??? I've never purchased a skins for my iPod mini before since I never had to....:P

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So many
by daveworld / August 26, 2006 1:27 PM PDT
In reply to: So....

Belkin has good cases, but what I would recomend is seeing them in person. Some cases covers the scroll wheel, which may cause "fast scrolling" to be useless. I had to cut the center part of my Incase to get back "fast scrolling" on the iPod.

The mini has a scratch resistance surface so yeah you really didn't need a case. Bad Apple!

good luck

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Zen doesn't do audio books?
by cymaldonado / August 27, 2006 10:29 PM PDT
In reply to: iPod

See books under Entertainment on the left-hand side of this link:


It appears they do audio books and lots more.

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A Zencast is not a podcast
by J.G. / August 28, 2006 11:17 AM PDT

The Zen site does not have a reference to audiobooks. You might want to actually examine a site before linking to it in the future.

Furthermore, the Zen site is just plain sad. Compared to the iTunes Music Store, it is virtually empty.

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Don't be so arrogant!
by cymaldonado / August 28, 2006 1:30 PM PDT

OK. So you accuse me of not looking at the site before I post it. But I did. Again at:
On the Gallery menu under Entertainment, I see a category called books. Wouldn't, for example the one marked "Audiobook - Tom Corven" count as an audiobook? After all, my example, was just in response to your original comment that the Zen doesn't do audiobooks. Don't like the selection? OK Go to http://www.audible.com for thousands of available books -- all compatible with the Zen player.

As to a Zencast not being a podcast? Podcasts, short for Personal On Demand broadcast, is defined in the New Oxford American Dictionary as "a digital recording of a radio broadcast or similar program, made available on the Internet for downloading to a personal audio player". Zencast seems to be the same to me. What difference do you see -- is it because it's not made be Apple? Again I submit that a Zen player is capable of audiobooks and podcasts just as well as an iPOD.

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One link to an audiobook is enough?
by J.G. / August 31, 2006 9:20 AM PDT
In reply to: Don't be so arrogant!

Boggles the mind.

There are thousands of audiobooks iTMS. Perhaps Zen users are on a diet, though.

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Maybe you should do your research!
by jchrismen / September 1, 2006 12:07 PM PDT

The Zen supports audiocast maybe you should do your homework before "flame bating" other peoples reply.The
Zen vision m is a great device with support for 8 different video formats and has a SN ratio of 97 Db( great audio playback).If your only arguement is itunes then you are not answering the question which is which device is better. built in fm reciever,voice recording ,high definition color screen,4.5 hours of video playback, plays WMA's.these are the reason that make the ZVM so great

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Not one . . . thousands
by cymaldonado / September 1, 2006 3:30 PM PDT

Actually one IS enough to prove a point -- as I was responding to a post that stated that the Zen couldn't play audiobooks. But I guess logic defies some iPod users.

And if you read further in my post I gave a link that had thousands of books available as well.

But most of all I wanted a user not to make a buying decision based on erroneous information.

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by michael6451 / September 2, 2006 8:13 AM PDT

Most of ITMS audio books are sponsored by audible.com. I think that audible may even have a larger selection than ITMS. Since the vision and the ipod will suport audible your post makes you seem like your mind is very easy to boggle.

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For your information
by J.G. / August 30, 2006 2:49 PM PDT

First, I am not the person who initially told you that the Zen site has little or no reference to audiobooks. Someone else deserves the credit for that.

Second, the Zen site has some links to other sites, but, they are not necessarily links to anything about audiobooks.

Third, Audible is one of Apple's major partners. Apple saved its bacon with a sweet deal to sell Audible content at the iTunes Music Store a few years ago. As a result, most Audible content is available at iTMS, sometimes at a discount. Of course, only iPod owners can take advantage of that. Fair enough. Apple saved Audible from bankruptcy, not Creative.

Fourth, Creative itself has now partnered with Apple in its Made for iPod program. That may mean that Creative will focus on making iPod peripherals, perhaps even phasing out its own MP3 players.

A person considering buying a Zen should have this infomation available to consider.

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by cymaldonado / August 31, 2006 10:09 PM PDT
In reply to: For your information

Yes, it is true you were not the originator of the falsehood that the Zen does not do audiobooks. That person has acknowledged see: "I was wrong" -- on this thread) that the Zen product does indeed do Audiobooks (including the complete line from Audible) which you mention.

Second it is true that Creative now partnered with Apple in making iPod peripherals. But this is just part of a settlement where Creative won $100 million from Apple for patent infringement (stealing the interface) on part of the iPod.


I don't think your contention that Creative will revolve around Apple peripherals and abandon their MP3 players is well founded.

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I was wrong
by daveworld / August 29, 2006 5:27 AM PDT
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by audioedition.org / January 19, 2007 6:35 AM PST

First I want to thank cymaldonado for interesting information.
I think compatibility issue is very important. Protected iTunes content can only be played on an iPod, and as it was already mentioned here, most of iTunes content is available elsewhere with different DRM encoding (e.g. audiobooks from audible, and the music is mostly available from other sources).
Either Audible, or any PlaysForSure DRM content can be played on many (usualy some hundreds) of players, when the same content from iTunes can only be played on an iPod.
iTunes does have some content exclusive to the service, but it is only a small percentage, and in my mind, the most interesting exclusives are the free, non DRM protected Podcasts anyway.
Perhaps more importantly in this forum is the fact that an iPod is NOT compatible with any PlaysForSure protected file or service. So alltogether, if using an online service for content is important, or might become important, and there's no large library of protected iTunes ( FairPlay ) content involved, I would lean towards Janus (PlaysForSure) AND Audible compatible Zen.
William Graham, webmaster www.audioedition.org

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(NT) (NT) My vote: Wait for Zune.
by udayan71 / August 27, 2006 4:22 AM PDT
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Definately Zen
by tblaschk / August 27, 2006 11:15 AM PDT

As an owner of both items (purchased the [black] iPod, and won the [also black] Zen in a skateboard competition), I could only tell you to purchase the Creative. I use both players when I'm skating, and the iPod hard drive skips (which isn't going to be an issue unless your player gets the same kind of treatment as mine) and the battery gets really hot and doesn't hold its charge as long as it used to. The creative plays videos a little better, and the sound quality is as good as my old Sony NW-HD5 (crystal clear). Also, to answer your main question, the Zen has no scratches, despite falling out of my pocket more times than I wish it did, and it's slightly bigger size and weight means it has more substance.

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Skateboarding, hard drive, incompatible
by J.G. / August 31, 2006 9:15 AM PDT
In reply to: Definately Zen

A flash drive MP3 player is more compatible with sports activity. Apple makes that clear in the information it distributes. It has even paired the Nike sports shoe kit with the Nano for that reason. So, to claim that your hard drive based iPod is faulty because it skips while you skateboard is rather silly.

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