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Microsoft admits Vista failure

by soldano / April 24, 2007 11:04 AM PDT

An article to prove what a horrible joke Vista is and how M$ is doing some serious backpedaling to save itself from total failure.

It would appear that Redmond is sweating some serious bullets with the impending verdict that the world is viewing Vista as another Win Me failure and joke.

Dell has given up and is now going back to XP installs of their systems.

This is a serious kick in the teeth for Bill & Co. as other manufactures will soon follow suit citing Dell?s concerns for the decision.

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hmmm. so with dell....
by sweetazzhonee / April 24, 2007 3:58 PM PDT

are they going to "fix" the computers that they sent out with vista on it? i JUST got my comp not even a week ago, and i DESPISE (with a passion) vista.. it would be nice if they were offering a dwngrd option for those ppl that were stuck with it or something.. if anyone knows anythingm let us know PLEASE!!

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Dell hasn't exactly given up on XP
by ktreb / April 24, 2007 4:39 PM PDT

You still have to go through several clicks on Dell's website to get to a page to configure something with XP. You'll go through a page that offers a side by side comparison of XP and Vista, then you'll have to scroll down further to get to the XP computers if you don't accidentally click on "shop windows vista pcs".

I just got a laptop running Vista. Not really liking it, but I got mine at Costco. I'll give it a chance. I have 85 more days to return it. Happy

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by ktreb / April 25, 2007 1:28 PM PDT

I meant to say Dell hasn't exactly given up on Vista.

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My money is on it being returned
by tcantrelln / April 26, 2007 5:34 AM PDT

I operated my neighbors Vista Vaio trying to show him some basics, gnashed my teeth for about two hours, quit and powered up my Inspiron with XP, MCE. Presto, he was not pleased.

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Windows vista
by pan57 / April 27, 2007 12:48 PM PDT

I have been fighting with Dell for 3 weeks. I bought a new desktop on the 9th of last month (March). After setting it up and discovering, to my utter astonishment, this brand new Dell, was slower then my 10 yr old Gateway, and crashed more the first week , then my old one had, in 10 yrs. Maybe a slight exaggeration there. Anyway, I started calling Dell after the sales rep who sold me the "thing" did not respond to my emails. I really knew something was wrong when her manager never called back either!!
What I came to find out, after many hours of screaming and yelling, was that Dell does not have a clue as what to do either!!!
They offered me $100 towards the purchase of anything over $100!!
Gee Dell don't break the bank because you were hoodwinked into Vista!!

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Dell and XP
by kpo6969 / April 24, 2007 4:56 PM PDT

Dell has not given up on Vista. If you do a little research you'll find the "select" systems Dell is offering XP on are the ones having trouble running or upgrading to Vista. Also, Linux is now available on some systems.

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I have Vista
by denni0302 / April 26, 2007 2:57 AM PDT

Sure it has a few bugs, but nothing is perfect, the only thing I don't have going is my fingerprint reader but everything else is great and looks glamourus:D

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Defective Windows Vista
by Karridog / April 27, 2007 3:17 PM PDT
In reply to: I have Vista

Are you sure that you know the difference between a few bugs and outright defective software? Undoubtedly, Dell will have started a Microsoft consumer revolt. They don't intend to sell there computers with Windows Vista. If Dell wanted to be able to continue selling their very fine computers, they knew that they had to stop selling their computers with Windows Vista installed.

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Grow up
by runbob / May 5, 2007 7:21 AM PDT

I have been running Vista Prem on my Toshiba laptop since the launch and it has been great. I needed to do some work and upgrade Nero, but all is well. It is not a simple upgrade but well worth it.

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A far cry from ME
by mopscare42 / April 26, 2007 6:32 AM PDT

I have had every Windows version since 3.1 and all the way to Vista.
Vista is a far,far cry from ME and shouldn't even be compaired to it.
I had many more problems with ME and for that matter XP than I have had with Vista. The problems I have had was my fault for not reading the directions.
The biggest problems are not because of Vista itself but because some of the venders of soft and hardware don't seem to really care about getting their products Vista compatable.
HP is a perfect example, they say they have thousands of engineers and code monkeys working 7 days a week to get everything Vista compatable, but yet in 3 months the only thing I can find that has been upgraded is one all in one Printer/scanner/ copier and one stand alone printer. The monkeys must be the leaders on that crew.
Vista is great the venders just need to get their acts together.

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True, WinME was more compatible than Vista...
by robains / April 27, 2007 10:00 AM PDT
In reply to: A far cry from ME

So in many ways WinME isn't as broken as Vista.

Not sure how good the source is for this thread, but it is true that Microsoft are "rethinking" how to get Vista to sell and it is true that Dell offer WinXP as well as Vista and it is true that Steve Ballmer was blaming piracey for poor Vista sales.

But many are asking the question why? The only real incentive for gamers is DX10 and without any DX10 games out til maybe end of the year don't expect to see Vista sales improve. Various independant surverys indicate that <12% of the existing user base (WinXP owners) plan to upgrade to Vista within the next 12-18 months.

I don't recommend Vista to any of my clients large and small and they have no desire to go the Vista route also (hardware and software costs to run Vista smoothly exceed that of a new MacPro).

But there is no defense for Vista's 5 year development cycle and with very very little to show for it other than a lot of angry customers. But isn't this the trend with all massive companies, over time they become mediocre and think they can dictate terms and get consumed with layer upon layer upon layer of compatibility code.

Buy a MacPro, run WinXP on it too, be happy. Wink


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you are absolutely right
by knight2448 / April 27, 2007 10:52 AM PDT
In reply to: A far cry from ME

I bought vista when it first came out. When I first installed it I was mad because neither of my printers worked also my tv tuner does not work. I got smart though, before I bought vista I bought a new hard drive and installed vista on it to test it out. Right now I have xp on one hard drive and Vista on the other. I tried dual boot, HAH what a joke. That didn't work too well. Back to what I was saying, Epson finally released a driver for my printer and Lexmark released one for my printer as well. The only one I am waiting for is ATI to release software for my tv tuner, which is a very big surprise to me because from what I understand ATI was a big part of the creation of Windows VISTA. The problem is the hardware manufacturers not MICROSOFT. So don't get mad before you buy Vista and are disappointed by your old hardware not working, check the manufacturers to see if they have a driver available. Alot of the companies are not writing drivers for hardware that is older than maybe a year or two. It is not cost effective, for the company.

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It IS Microsofts fault.
by tlsmith1138 / April 28, 2007 11:44 AM PDT

When I switched from 98 to xp, I had one (1) program I liked that wouldn't work and one (1) piece of hardware that struggled. If programs and hardware aren't compatable, it's because MS was too busy thinking about dollar signs instead of making Vista compatable with things their customers bought making them rich in the first place. Put the blame where it belongs, on MS's callus, money hungery, self rightious mindset.

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Right on
by runbob / May 5, 2007 7:31 AM PDT

You are so right, that is why a PC is not a Mac. You have choice in hardware, Microsoft creates a OS they can't take care of millions of pieces of hardware, I had to go to the Toshiba site and find the Video drivers. I did all the research and preparation before I started.

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by may52 / April 27, 2007 9:31 AM PDT

In the past, I was among the first to run out and buy the latest upgrade. For example, my first DVD burner cost me over $400. At the time that was a good price, but it's a worthless piece of equipment now. Thankfully, I've learned to hold off for awhile when anything new comes out. I've been hearing nothing but horror stories about Vista, and I think I'm going to take everyones' advice and not find out about it first hand. This may be just the nudge I need to cross over to a Mac.

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Vista IS better than XP
by fzakaria / April 27, 2007 10:27 AM PDT
In reply to: Vista

You are right to wait unfortunately, there is a rule of thumb that I heard somewhere as soon as a new operating system is released from Microsoft mark 12 months after that operating system is for sale then go upgrade if you want after the marked date.

Like someone said it is not mostly Microsoft's fault, it's OEM vendors who had from Beta 1 to RC1 to get their acts together but didnt do squat. I checked my driver inf file and found that it is actually an old xp driver, older than the latest XP driver out for the device, that one of my hardware vendor is using to be compatible with Vista of course it doesnt perform well, duh. I hacked it with a newer driver and now it works better Happy

As for those of you regretting your purchase of Vista then shame on you for not going to the micorosft website and find out more of what it can do and cant do, go to the forums not after you've run into issues but before even purchasing it to see what kind of issues other people are facing with it.

Vista has gone a long way since XP and to compare it with ME is not justifiable at all, just look at the security side of it and you know it's a whole new ball game, it is I dare say emotional reporting that I read rather than objective reporting from the article.

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Don't blame Vista problems on drivers and vendors...
by robains / April 27, 2007 1:28 PM PDT

I know it is easy to blame the 3rd party vendors that sell their hardware for WinXP, but do most of you know the process in which a driver must be "certified" by Microsoft? Let me fill you in:

1. Once you have the final released version of the OS you can start driver development (trust me you don't want to do it any time before RTM as Microsoft are known for last minute significant changes to the OS code base).

2. You do driver development (DDK) and then must submit the drivers to Microsoft for certification (or else they do NOT install cleanly with Vista).

3. If there is any other software related to the hardware that might not be part of the device driver but is bundled in, that must also be certified (the certification alone is anywhere from $500 - $2500).

This process takes considerably longer than it did in the past with WinXP and there are more levels of certification that must be acquired for a clean install into Vista. Who came up with the certification process -- yes, you guessed it, Microsoft. So blaming OEMs really just isn't fair, this process was forced on them by a very large corporation called Microsoft.

With Vista sales being pretty bad, you can see why OEMs aren't exactly wanting to devote money and resources to help Microsoft sell their OS when WinXP is perfectly acceptable.

So please, don't blame the vendors and OEM, they didn't create this mess -- Microsoft did.


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The Vendors didn't have to accept MS's strongarm OEM tactics
by intrepi / April 28, 2007 9:27 AM PDT

First, nobody forced these vendors to load anything on their machines, they could have opted to sell their machines with no operating system but when THEY accept MS's terms and retail their machines with MS's software, then I believe the Vendors are hardly blameless. If HP, Compaq, Dell and the like want to retail their machines with OEM versions of Windows, then they and they alone are responsible for what problems arise. Putting Vista compatable, Vista ready on machines that aren't able to operate correctly as a result of poor drivers and other issues is like selling loaves of burnt bread in brown paper bags. It's bread as advertised but do you seriously think it's edible ? The vendors know the issues and sell it anyway and couldn't give a nickel about what issues you might have with it, so you'd best think this over as the blame lies with these vendors.

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You can't be serious
by YSB / April 28, 2007 1:05 PM PDT

There is a small percentage of advanced users who would love to by machines without an OS installed but most of those build their own machines anyways! The overwhelming majority of Dell home consumers want a machine that will run out of the box. Dell needs to pre-install an OS or they'd go out of business in a day. If a new OS comes out and they don't offer it then they'll be labeled as "Behind the cutting edge" and other such things and they'll lose business on that too. You can't blame them for pre-installing Vista on new machines.

The assumption is that after all the work that went into Vista and all the hoopla that preceded it's release it should work without much trouble.

Enter Microsoft. Big brother M$ says "Take what I give you whether you like it or not!" With most consumers not ready to move to Linux just yet, the OEMs have to put-up and shut-up if they want to stay in the game. Can you blame them for their predicament?

Just wait, if Vista sales don't go up M$ will just declare XP obsolete, stop licensing it and stop supporting it. Then everyone will HAVE to but Vista whether they like it or not and whether it works or not. With M$'s 'Genuine Disadvantage' and activation scheme, once they do that it will no longer be possible to install XP on a computer even if you're reinstalling to a computer that already had XP!

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If a big vendor like HP...
by b8375629 / April 30, 2007 4:43 AM PDT

...or Dell, AMD, etc.. can't afford to shell out $2500 per driver certification for their printers, scanners, video cards etc.., then they need to get their heads examined and find another line of business to get into. Big 3rd party vendors with their fat corporate profits have no excuse. They can afford it. To not be able to find a HP printer driver because HP can't afford to pay the certification fee, is ridiculous.

The little vendor-developers, DIYs, one-man shops on the other hand, are gonna take a bite. There's a lot of screaming out there, no question about it.

Will the nabnobs at Microsoft listen? It remains to be seen.

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Vista is dangerous
by Tcko / April 29, 2007 11:12 AM PDT

This is for the un-informed.....Vista is a joint project between Microsoft and our fine government, if you didn't know it.
It is is XP. XP was setup to use approx. 20% of your bandwidth for reporting to Microsoft how you were using your PC and for updates...I wonder what "spyware" they have embedded in Vista and how much bandwidth it uses?
I will never use Vista simply for that reason and as far as Microsoft security....what a joke.
I use XP pro and luckily you can take Microsoft completely out of the picture in it. I don't receive "any" Microsoft updates and my PC is not accessed by Microsoft in any way.
I do not use any Microsoft security...I use Avast and Zonealarm and I have never had any viruses in two years.
Linux is the way to source!... and no one is watching what you do on your PC with it. It won't be long that all the programs that you want to use updates will be available for Linux, as Adobe has already begun....think about it...why was the government even involved with designing software with a private company?
If anyone here uses XP pro and want the info on how to remove Microsoft from using your PC ... let me know and I'll post it
my 2-cents

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Tell us Please
by THHinc / April 29, 2007 11:20 PM PDT
In reply to: Vista is dangerous

Please tell us how to keep MS off of our computers!

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Recovering bandwidth from Microsoft and stopping windows sec
by Tcko / April 30, 2007 6:40 AM PDT
In reply to: Tell us Please

Here is how to stop Microsoft from always sending security updates and helps speed up your PC;

Stopping Windows Security Updates in XP

Go to start
then click on control panel
then on computer management tools
then services and applications
then services
then on security center
then under startup type arrow and click disabled
then click apply then click ok
reboot and sercurity center will be disabled

This next one is for XP Pro only to recover the 20% bandwidth Microsoft steals from you;

To Get 20% more bandwidth from XP Pro only!

Microsoft reserves 20% of your bandwidth which it doesnt need
they use it to suit their own purposes such as ads and stuff
here is how to get it back from them.

Go to start
then run
then type...gpedit.msc and enter
go to local computer policy
then to computer configuration
then administrative templates
then network
then QOS packet scheduler
then to limit reservable bandwidth
click enable
change to 0 then click apply then ok
reboot and you will have full speed
that's it.

My laptop with XP Pro runs smooth and fast as silk now....enjoy

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You Are Mistaken About The Bandwidth (At Least)
by pmchefalo / May 4, 2007 10:38 PM PDT

The QOS packet scheduler is a special Quality of Service service that controls how streaming video and telephony works on networks with special hardware switches. You probably don't use such a network.


Looking at the processes running on your PC will show that no resources are used by the QOS service.

Turning off the security center is your choice. I suspect you did it because you were getting popupa complaining about not having an AV solution installed at all. That WILL make your PC run better if you accept the risks.

If your PC is running smoothly it is because of Microsoft's efforts to patch their software, not despite them.

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You Are Mistaken About The Bandwidth (At Least
by Tcko / May 5, 2007 1:56 AM PDT

(Turning off the security center is your choice. I suspect you did it because you were getting popupa complaining about not having an AV solution installed at all. That WILL make your PC run better if you accept the risks.)

I don't think so! It's there!
If you have XP Pro and you go to where I said, you will see that Microsoft has set aside 20% of your bandwidth...whether they use all of it at one time I'm not sure...and I'm not so sure that what they would use would even show up! There are a lot of things that run in the background that don't actually show up in processes!

(If your PC is running smoothly it is because of Microsoft's efforts to patch their software, not despite them.)

ALL of my pc's run fine by eliminating Microsoft updates and all.....I use Zonealarm and Avast....and I never, ever have any issues or viruses and that is using win98....2000....Xp home and XP Pro...two laptops and two desktops! NOTHING gets in or out unless I let it!

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One more thing!
by Tcko / May 5, 2007 2:08 AM PDT

If Microsoft OP systems are so great...why do we have to reboot all the time?
I have a friend who is testing out Linux, believe it or not he has been up constantly for 6 months now without one reboot! and his resources are great.
Just because Microsoft is the largest doesn't make them the best...they are a monopoly! and that's the only reason they are even here.
I have downloaded a Linux OP and in the next few days I will be setting up another PC to try it out....and the only thing I really need to run on it is Adobe and from what I hear I can get updates for there are many free programs for music and all for linux.
As I said before...Vista was a joint venture between Gates and the government and I don't trust it any father than I can throw it

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Vista has its issues but damn....
by piook / April 30, 2007 8:30 AM PDT

Man there are some serious, and I mean serious mudslinging here at Microsoft. Foremost among them is the comparison of Vista to ME. I know that Vista has its issues, I mean I have trouble playing WoW with out going to a beta version of my Vid Driver and then when I want to watch video (either online or in my media center) I have to go with the release version. Yeah it is annoying but I can bet that in at least 80% of the compatibility cases I have found that there is a fix or at least a workaround available.

What gets me more than anything is the fact that people are not taking the time to research the problems that do come up. Now I understand that many people are not tech savy enough to do this (But I would think that most people post here would be!) and in this case shame on the poor customer service/tech support from many of the manufacturers: From HP to Lexmark to Logitech. Each of those someone I was called by to help them with an issue were told by one of those companies' tech supportthat Microsoft was at fault, when it turns out in 2 of them that a driver update was available at there website and in the case of HP that a driver was available through Intel on Intel's website. This is ridiculous that everyone points the finger a the big M. But it makes sense, no one wants to admit that they are the ones that dropped the ball. And in this case it looks to me that it wasn't Microsoft for a change but rather the Hardware manufactures and App developers out there.

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Let's get real for a moment
by Tcko / April 30, 2007 9:29 AM PDT

Ok.....some of us know where to look for updated drivers and all...tweak source code...change a little bit of script.....but what about the average user?
Most are PC challenged when it comes to finding what they need...I would say at least 9 out of 10 people are lost with in saying this they have forked over 160+ bucks for Vista....then another 100 or 200 to a tech to get their PC running....kinda expensive don't you think? isn't the software vendors snafu...It's Mr. Gates fault for putting this junk OP on the market...maybe he was getting low on funds? Gimme a break! Vista should never have been released in it's present form...or maybe never! can get a Linux OP system as low as 50 bucks...with a windows style format...wont be long..when large companies such as Adobe get with Linux as they have already, that should speak for itself!
Gates will start crying when his pocket change falls below the 90 billion dollar mark....breaks my heart....NOT

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Poor Misunderstood Microsoft
by tlsmith1138 / May 5, 2007 4:35 AM PDT

When I went from 98 to xp, I had one small printer problem and one program I really enjoyed that wouldn't work. XP was, for the most part, backward compatable. Now they think everybody should spend, spend, spend because of their lack of concern and foresight. Talk to me again when you have to replace your graphics card when they go from 9 to 10, which they didn't feel the need to make compatable either. I hope Microsoft pays well.

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Folks, keep in my the GLOBAL context with Micro$oft
by Levair1968 / April 30, 2007 10:20 AM PDT

After reading a good deal of these remarks, including this one, I would urge pro-MS'ers to keep in mind that you can't just blame users for not researching first! Remember, MS owns 85% of the world market and probably 70% (at least of the HOME market). Now, of this 70%, at least half are general users. They may not know anything other than how to cut the thing on, get their email, use the net and print out an occassional Word document. MS has an obligation, by sheer market share, to make sure that even the casual user can successfully use their product without having to go to technical classes first!!!! Think MAC! So, for geeks, YES, they should have researched first, but for everyone else, they are bearing the brunt of a greedy-a$$, monopolistic behemoth that's scared they're gonna lose a dollar around every corner!!!!

Oh, by the way, I've used MS and worked MS since it was DOS. My degree IS in Computer Science, and I have CONVERTED to Apple and the MAC for 2 years running! Now that I have an Intel Mac Book Pro, I can run you all's OS better than YOU can. With absolutely NO "blue screens of death" or any other screen of death!

Everybody, do yourself a favor, if you can't afford a high quality Mac outright, then do like I did and buy a refurbished or older model. BTW, Apple totally re-guts a refurb and offers the exact same warranty as they do on their brand new models, all for at least 15-20% off!


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