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let's get in the Way Back Machine Minimum wage increase

by JP Bill / February 10, 2014 9:15 PM PST
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Let's, first, put this in perspective
by Steven Haninger / February 10, 2014 10:39 PM PST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Minimum_Wage_Act_of_2007

Let's presume the discussion was related to the above as it was from 2007. The proposal was a stepped increase over a couple of years to result in a $7.25 minimum wage. That amount is today's amount 5 years later. We have heard that the inflation rate over the past several years has been very small. The current discussion seems to be not whether or not to raise the minimum wage but to more than double it.

I would have to think that there's a break point at which any stimulus effect would disappear and could result in calamity. Maybe we shouldn't talk about a raising the wage to more than $8.00 which would approximate more closely what the government figures show for inflation.

BTW, you seem to be excellent at the art of dredging. Well...not an art so much as a sport, is it?
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OR we could just look at the idea of minimum wage
by JP Bill / February 10, 2014 11:07 PM PST

and whether the "government interference" is considered "interference" and how peoples attitude change when the other side is in power.

Before Obama/Under Republican......It will generate more revenue, boost Social Security deposits made, and help boost the economy

Under Obama.....I don't agree that the minimum wage should be increased....it only results in more loss of jobs because companies find more ways to automate instead.

I don't want the minimum wage increased....for anyone. IF the worker deserves a raise, you get it because the company recognizes you deserve one.....if you don't get one, you go find another company to work for that recognizes you deserve more money. THAT's what 'working your way up the ladder' means here in the USA.

You don't attempt to force a business owner, who has taken all the risk to give you a job in the first place, to give you whatever you want


RE: the art of dredging

Research?

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Maybe if you'd spend more time
by Steven Haninger / February 11, 2014 12:06 AM PST

expressing your own opinions and offering your own arguments for them rather than walking around swinging a noose, you'd be a better ambassador for your causes...whatever the heck they might be. Why not give it a try?

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(NT) Link please. It looks like a very good article.
by Ziks511 / February 12, 2014 5:17 AM PST
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Re: link
by JP Bill / February 12, 2014 5:25 AM PST
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ps ........the link to the full thread in the first link
by JP Bill / February 12, 2014 5:36 AM PST
In reply to: Re: link
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It was interesting to read all the posts
by Steven Haninger / February 12, 2014 5:53 AM PST

in that thread and note the demeanor of the participants. Times have changed. Thanks for the memories.

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RE: note the demeanor of the participants
by JP Bill / February 12, 2014 5:57 AM PST

yes ...........times were different then

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Sorry JP. I posted this stupid request before I realized
by Rob_Boyter / February 12, 2014 1:11 PM PST
In reply to: Re: link

the source of the "article". I figured it out very quickly once I'd read a few more posts in this thread.

I remember thinking at the time, that $7.25 was $2.00 short of a true minimum wage.

The current minimum should be between $12.oo for High School Students working part time, and $15.00 for people over 20 years of age, and who work more than 30 hours a week. Additionally the WalMart careful scheduling to keep the staff permanently on Part-Time wages should be illegal.

I worked briefly in Audio and Video sales. In order to get the real figures for sales per month for my commission I had to go through the invoices, photocopy them and submit them for my commission. I quit that job when my Manager decided he needed to pump himself up for the day's sales by raging at me about absolutely nothing (it was his usual pattern but the first tiime it was me he chose). I turned away from him in mid-harangue and picked up the phone and said. "Hi, Marilyn, Please get me the hell out of here." She said, "I think something is opening up next week, I'll call you the second I"m certain." 2 days later, I was working for her at St. Joseph's Health Centre, in 1985 for $15.65/hr part time covering weekends, statutory holidays and the summer relief for the regular tech (and 4 months full time to cover for him when he cut 3 fingers off one hand with a table saw). Marilyn knew me from my first job here in Toronto at Toronto General Hospital (now The Toronto Hospital) and was very happy to get someone dependable. I worked for her for 9 years before downsizing took away my job. I got another job at the Hospital in 10 months, this time almost invariably full time, though it was labelled Part Time so that if the work load declined one day in 3 weeks they could dump one or two of us.

So, you think $15.65 in 1985 is a little bit rich for a part time Job?? Granted I'm not the average Part Time Employee. I knew as much or more than the Respiratory Technicians who actually handled the machines (ventilators) that the Respiratory Techs set up with tubing and generally monitored at the bedside. All I did as a Respiratory Equipment Tech was repair them, and check and reset their parameters to be sure that everything was operating as it was supposed to. The Respiratory Technicians made about $30 to $33 an hour.

Life is frequently upside down like that.

Rob

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Oh, yeah. Discussing any legislation from the Bush years
by Ziks511 / February 12, 2014 5:16 AM PST

makes "all-kinds of sense" especially Non-sense.

And do you think he would have signed a truly fair minimum wage??? Which at that point should have been at least $9.50 an hour. Now it should be about $12.00.

Great choice Steven.

Rob

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As long as you are going to use
by TONI H / February 11, 2014 12:35 AM PST

the way back machine, please note the date of my post.....January 2007 and the financial collapse didn't begin until July and peaked in 2008.

At the time I posted that response, it WAS a good idea because it was long overdue and it only raised it over a period of time to a way smaller amount total than what is being demanded now. It actually did nothing to boost the economy like it was believed, even by me, that it would do because when the collapse came, hundreds of thousands lost their jobs, either never to return or to be turned into part-timers even to this day.

Increasing the minimum wage again, at this point in time, would be devastating to the fragile economy we have currently, especially to the wage that is being bandied about.

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RE: please note the date of my post.....January 2007
by JP Bill / February 11, 2014 3:03 AM PST

That's the purpose of the way back Machine...to go back and look at what was said.

If you had a time machine and went forward in 2007 and saw that Obama would be President and Minimum Wage would be under discussion....

You wouldn't have been so complimentary It will generate more revenue, boost Social Security deposits made, and help boost the economy

It might have worked IF....this didn't happen?

As part of the deal, $257 million worth of tax breaks were given to small business over a 10-year period to offset the wage increase.

You say it would generate more revenue...More taxes?

More taxes from one sector...less taxes from another sector...That's a wash/zero?

They didn't need to "automate instead" as you fear they will do now...they just got the money they would pay, back in reduced taxes. Out of one pocket into another.

You were so right then...I guess I'll have to wait til 2020 the fire up the Way Back Machine once again...unless some other subject strikes my fancy

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Just to be fair
by Steven Haninger / February 11, 2014 3:34 AM PST

Is it OK if someone has a change of heart over time or do so after seeing a result that was other than anticipated? Don't you want that to happen sometimes? Then why be critical when it happens? I still call it dredging and not research. Research should be used more to find positive solutions and not ammo.

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RE: Change of "heart"?...Sure......
by JP Bill / February 11, 2014 4:19 AM PST
In reply to: Just to be fair

Change of "heart" because the party you support has a change of "heart"?...no...I don't think so.

It's not YOUR heart...it's the party's "heart". (toeing the party line/even if it is the Tea Party)

I suppose I can substitute the term "change of heart" every time I see a post in this forum calling a politician a "hypocrite". (links provided upon request.)

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Are you 100% certain that's the case?
by Steven Haninger / February 11, 2014 5:37 AM PST

and ready to make judgement? Are you also prepared to be judged in the same way? I can't see how that's a good way to be but you're free to do as you will as is anyone else.

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I'm as sure as you are.
by JP Bill / February 11, 2014 5:47 AM PST

Do you question Toni's motive?

It must be by Private Message, as I've yet to see you question her in SE.

You wouldn't be a closet Tea Partier would you?

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And you don't see me regularly jump to anyone's defense
by Steven Haninger / February 11, 2014 6:37 AM PST

either...do you? I made this exception because I, too, will experience changes of heart from time to time. Isn't that what discussions like some of the ones here are opportunities for? Well, they can be if reason and civility are in place. They can't be if people are constantly deriding one another. I'll just take the time machine back to the same statement I've made here over and over that it's one thing to want to be heard and another to want to be listened to. As for your Tea Party comment...think whatever you will. I feel no need to discuss such remarks. They add nothing constructive to the conversation.

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RE: And you don't see me regularly jump to anyone's defense
by JP Bill / February 11, 2014 11:03 AM PST

I though that is what you were doing ...Jumping to Toni's defense...claiming she could have a "change of heart"

Not questioning her motive....jumping to her defense....

Well, they can be if reason and civility are in place.

Next time Toni refers to me as an Idiot...I'll do my best to make sure you see her post. Then you can "question her motives". Like THAT will happen.

I could show you examples right now but I don't want to do any research.

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I can see why you'd say that but I'll
by Steven Haninger / February 11, 2014 6:02 PM PST

reiterate what I said. I will defend someone's comment but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the person but the operative word in my reply was "regularly". I do so "occasionally" and I did mention that the post was an exception. I thought it important that a person expressing they'd had a change in their thinking. I didn't reply by mentioning the person but by what was said. It does seem to me that a desired outcome of opinionated conversation should be that occasionally someone would come to the other side. Seeing that post made a light come on and I just seized on the opportunity. I regret that you seemed to only see it as a defense of a person but it was actually meant to point out what I thought was important...someone actually said they had changed. Don't we argue about stubbornness in politics where action depends on someone changing their mind but that never seems to happen? Should we challenge their sincerity when they do so or should we take them at their word? Why would a person want to note such a change if all they felt coming was criticism for doing so.

As for name calling, I won't get into the middle of those things nor will I engage in the type of gossip where members discuss other members so don't expect me to mention names here.

And one last thing I've harped on here over and over about your postings...and I'll try to offer this constructively...is that you do seem to spend an inordinate amount of time criticizing certain people's posts and responses and not enough time expressing your own opinions or explaining/defending. The "stalking" is more than a little tiring and it gets to be difficult to even want to spend time replying. You're still free to play your own game but, IMO, such games only hurt the causes of the participants.

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RE: I'll try to offer this constructively..
by JP Bill / February 11, 2014 7:34 PM PST

I do so "occasionally" and I did mention that the post was an exception.

Thanks but no thanks....not your first "exception"

I won't get into the middle of those things

Thank you

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Well, sure, it's possible for someone to have a change of
by Ziks511 / February 12, 2014 5:21 AM PST
In reply to: Just to be fair

heart. But that does assume that they have a heart unaffected by a fringe political party in the first place.

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And you think the poorest should pay for the failings of the
by Ziks511 / February 12, 2014 5:35 AM PST

richest? Those richest who got bonuses of millions and billions out of TARP because it was so poorly written for their benefit.

That isn't a change of heart, it's an indication of the absence of one, and a slavish adherence to Republican and Tea Party Ideal. Though I grant you that the Astro-Turf Tea Party wasn't established by the Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industries and Americans For Progress courtesy of your personal poster boys, the K och Brothers (the founders and chief paymasters of Americans For Progress) until mid 2009.

I also dispute your "Peaked in mid 2008". It did no such thing. Just like the Great Depression it kept Going and Going and Going. The GDepression didn't lift until 1940, and the Bush Depression isn't lifting until now but has at least another 5 years to run before it is properly clear of the Economy, and that only if a decent Democrat replaces Obama. A Republican will just give us a double dip Depression, sort of like the letter W, which sort of reminds me of something or other.

Rob

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TARP wasn't written at all
by TONI H / February 12, 2014 6:11 AM PST

if you really want to get down the nitty gritty of it.....it was literally a blank freaking check of $700B for the then Secretary of the Treasury Henry Poulson to spend as 'he saw fit". I was against it then, and I am still against it. However, that amount was actually reduced to under $500B during the BO administration by the Dodd-Frank bill. And another however includes the fact that BO refused to accept a repayment from one of the largest banks in 2009 because by not allowing that bank to pay it back (that bank was forced to take it in the first place), this administration could keep control over the bank's lending practices and be dictated to, just as they were able to dictate to GM and Chrysler for years.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123879833094588163

I would rather go thru a double dip recession that could actually at some point pull us out of this long-term deliberate depression in our economy and rid ourselves of oversized debt that is unnecessary than continue on the course we are on.

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(NT) Thank you, Toni. It should have been written, but wasn't.
by Rob_Boyter / February 12, 2014 1:13 PM PST
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"Gee, Mr Peabody, didn't know you were still around."
by Ziks511 / February 12, 2014 5:10 AM PST

"Well, Sherman, there were lots of other boys and girls who needed the real stories behind inventions and historical occurrences. I trust University went well?"

Rocky and his Friends, later The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show were a major favourite programme in my high school years. Especially Fractured Fairytales, Dudley Do-Right, Boris Badenov (a joke on the opera Boris Godunov (Evgenyi Onyegin, wrong, Modest Mussorgsky) and Natasha, and especially Peabody's Improbable History with Mr. Peabody (the dog) and his boy Sherman.

"Rocky & Bullwinkle is known for quality writing and wry humor. Mixing puns, cultural and topical satire, and self-referential humor, it appealed to adults as well as children."
Wikipedia, Rocky and Bullwinkle.

I loved the appearance of Edward Everett Horton's voice for Fractured Fairytales, and the odd bits of recognizable
voice over that advertising executive and voice actor who had his own radio show with the interview with the Abominable Snowman (possibly the funniest routine ever to appear on Radio) ... got it, thanks to my record collection, Stan Freberg.

Rob

Rob

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(NT) :)
by JP Bill / February 12, 2014 5:17 AM PST
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(NT) Thank you JP. Americans know nothing of their own History.
by Ziks511 / February 12, 2014 5:37 AM PST
In reply to: :)
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Surprisingly your insult is actually
by TONI H / February 12, 2014 6:13 AM PST

the truth when you consider a street interview reveals how little liberal voters know....especially when they don't even recognize a picture of the VP or past presidents to give their correct names.

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RE:a street interview revealshow little liberal voters know
by JP Bill / February 12, 2014 11:22 AM PST

Don't suppose you have a link that supports your statement.

IF you do...how do you/we know they weren't conservatives claiming to be liberals?

So....did they identify the people that were asked to identify the person in the picture?

"Here's a liberal voter...let's see if they can identify the VP?

Demonstrate your uncanny powers and let us know how you tell a conservative from a liberal

Do they have to say something or can you tell if they are Conservative, Liberal or Tea Party by looking at them?

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There are plenty of them
by TONI H / February 12, 2014 8:21 PM PST

However, the majority are from a source that you wouldn't believe unless you were the one doing the same interview as the interviewer........

Watters World is a weekly spotlight on O'Reilly's The Factor....

If you really can appreciate an eye-opener regarding the ignorance of the voters out there, and keep an open mind about it, please check out the archived WW videos.....and it really is a bi-partisan spotlight as he randomly picks people willing to talk with him; it just turns out that as usual the majority of the younger voters are liberal, as you already know.

http://video.foxnews.com/playlist/the-oreilly-factor-watters-world/

This page only shows the latest 14, but you can click at the bottom to load additional videos

The following page has a Watters' World link where you can also scroll through additional videos.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/index.html

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