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LCD's are crap why?

by Freddy408 / October 5, 2006 3:15 AM PDT

Hi,

I'm a freak when it comes to HD TV's. I own a 46inch sony trinitron and the HD on it is simply amazing. I decided to purchase an LCD HD tv the Samsung LN-S2651D. I read the reviews and I was told that the contrast ratio is amazing and that the picture quality is awesome.

So I purchase an HDMI worth $80 and hook up my Directv. I go to the discovery channel to see what it looks like and my jaw drops to the ground. One of the worse pictures I've come across. I could have saved myself money and purchase a DELL pc monitor flat panel 26' and hooked up my directv using components.

Is there anyway i can get the picture quality to actually look like it's HD rather then pixelated? Spending all this money on TV's that are suppose to be HD and end up looking like crap is no fun.

Help me out here people, I'm losing faith in all this HD plasma and LCD crap. I think i'll just stick to tubes which seem to be the best TV's on the market.

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Return it for an LCoS
by bevillan / October 5, 2006 3:28 AM PDT
In reply to: LCD's are crap why?

I too am not impressed with flat panel LCDs due to the screen door effect that is obvious for me to see.

I bought a Sony SXRD tv and have not had one regret. When I think about the money I saved compared to a plasma with the same size and picture quality and how there will never be an issue of a rainbow effect of DLP I rest at ease.

LCD is nowadays the bargain basement option for HDTVs. You can get a 50" Sony SXRD for around $2500

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Too large
by Freddy408 / October 5, 2006 7:12 AM PDT
In reply to: Return it for an LCoS

The only problem I have with your message is that I'm not looking for a huge TV. I already have a nice HD tv in the bedroom and a DLP HD widescreen in the living room. I'm more looking for a 26' that fits my office and is HD. The problem with this Samsung is that the picture quality looks like a flat screen monitor for a PC. Is there a point in why these TV's are even in prdocution? Wouldnt it better to spend on the money on a higher end model and brand or type of TV like Tube or Plasma?

I'm looking for a 26 inch in my room and this samsung is not getting the job done. Any suggestion how to make it look better?

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CRTs may still be the best
by NM_Bill / October 5, 2006 2:06 PM PDT
In reply to: Too large

but people have been sold on the idea of moving on. Disappointments do happen. My last Sony XBR was one of that company's bummers and expired after just four years.

I have a DLP and LCD and haven't been affected by either those notorious screen door effects or rainbow effects that apparently the lousier sets have had.

Your picture shouldn't be crappy. I'm not the techie around this forum so I hesitate to tell you where to start.

About the possiblilty of returning it: the dealer might effectively help you straighten out your picture or move you to a better alternative. They latter possibility comes with hazard of his using you to just get more money. Best of luck...

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What are you smoking?
by TonyPa / October 6, 2006 12:44 AM PDT
In reply to: Return it for an LCoS

I've been researching and looking at HDs for weeks. This I know: Tubes are good, but not practical. DLPs are large, but are best for straight-on viewing. I wouldn't buy one regardless of the cheap price unless the only reason for the purchase was to impress my friends by its shear size. Plasmas offer a nice, warm picture. They can be viewed at any angle. Depending on who you talk to, burn-in may no longer be much of an issue. For me, I will eventually buy an LCD. Why? Our den has windows facing the TV. I need a bright, glare resistant picture that only an LCD can provide. Plus, it draws less power and should last longer than a plasma. What brand will I buy? Most likely a Samsung LN-S4692 720p. I don't need 1080p cabability. I was able to view this LCD side-by-side with a Samsung 1080p and a Sony XBR31080p. While I would admit the 1080p's looked very good, the much cheaper 4692 was so close that the average person standing 15ft away would have a hard time telling the difference between the three. The Sony is a good looking set and has slightly more natural skin tones, but is nearly $2,000 more. Based on my personal comparison, why would I buy the XBR3? I can use the extra cash to purchase a better receiver and DVD player.

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I spent six months last year, doing intensive reasurch,
by jcrobso / October 6, 2006 2:30 AM PDT
In reply to: What are you smoking?

on HDTVs. Here is what I found out!
Direct view HDTVs.
CRT, best picture, but BIG and heavy in lager screen size, 36" MAX!! On the way out of the market.
Plamsa takes over where CRTs leave off!!! I have seen some 1080p plasma sets and I would rate them = to CRTs.
Current plamsa set are rated at 60,000 hours before half brightness is reached.
LCD is last, they are taking over the smaller screen size market, 32' and smaller! Note! LCDs have back lamps, I spent a lot of time tring to find out how long they will last and what it would cost to replace them!!!! What I found out was NOTHING!!! NO accurate info is out there!!! I ask a friend of mine who is a Panny rep the question, he said "no one knows!"

Rear projection HDTVs
CRT is the best, but about gone from the market!
LCoS RP sets are the current leader!
DLP RP sets next
LCD RP stes are again in last place.
LCoS, DLP and LCD all have on problem in common, a $200~300 lamp that has to be replaced from time to time. In a couple of years that lamp will be replaced with a LED light source and solve many problems for thies sets.
If you have a lot of ambinate light I would chose a plasma first and a direct view LCD sceond. john

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I was trying to be nice...
by TonyPa / October 6, 2006 3:30 AM PDT

I agree with most of what you said. However, Bacically (and technically) DLPs are crap. View one from the side or stand close to it and view it up and down - only head on will it look decent. At least they now have a 6-color wheel. As for Plasmas handling ambient light better than LCDs... not from where I was standing.

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DLPs will get better when,
by jcrobso / October 6, 2006 5:48 AM PDT

they change over to a 3 color LED lamp and lose the color wheel, but viewing angle problem will still be there.
Since I wasn't where you were I can't answer to this.
But I have viewed Plasmas at Costco under thoes bright lamps they use and they hold up very well. John

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I give up, you win!
by TonyPa / October 6, 2006 8:18 AM PDT

I've stood in front of so many sets that I need to see my eye doctor. DLP will get better, but so will plasma and LCD. The LCD will give me a bright picture in direct light conditions. DLPs are good for dim, narrow basements...

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this is pretty simple argument.
by gabereyes / October 6, 2006 1:22 PM PDT
In reply to: I give up, you win!

CRT and Plasma or almost equal and yes there are both the top two types of TV for overall picture quality.

because they both use the same material to make the image the only diffrents is plasma show more pixal seperation meanly because of size.

DLP future looks very bad the design was based on a TV called the machanical television the design floped on the consumer market twice, and with plasma prices falling, slimmer design, and performence its just a matter of time.

sorry DLP lovers ill stick with my tube, everyone seem to be happy with them before the DLP, LCD, LCOS trend, as for the 200 pound CRT well Im not planning any road trip with my TV.

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Too funny!
by TonyPa / October 7, 2006 12:40 AM PDT

I have an old 13" that I take on the road if needed... It just won't die, but if it does, I see a 15" LCD in the future.

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H.D.M.I. Vs COMPONIT KNOW ONE SEEMS TO KNOW
by stewart norrie / October 7, 2006 5:09 AM PDT

The two hi-def t.vs I have owned gave a horrible d.v.d. and satellite picture using componit vidio cables I had to buy a new Denon 2910 player with h.d.m.i. output and switch everything over to a h.d.m.i. set up, Then I did a little research and found out that you should try using both h.d.m.i. and componit to see which on works best Most of you folks say h.d.m.i. is not the way to go and that is untrue. Why woud one set up make such a difference in picture quality? stewee

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Should compare because....
by NM_Bill / October 7, 2006 1:06 PM PDT

of the actual quality of implementation of the components involved.

Yes, HDMI is digital and will be the standard, but actual performance of individual components as currently manufactured varies from great to crappy.

I don't remember the reference but on ''Secrets of Home High Fidelity'' they lab tested some things and HDMI certainly didn't always come out on top.

HDMI is evolving. I believe version 1.3 recently came out and few products have that yet. The just superceded Denon 4806 receiver i recently got just complies with 1.1. Duh, what happened to 1.2?

I would tend to put some faith in ''Secrets of Home High Fidelity's'' findings showing varying implementation and execution by different products having been manufactured somewhat recently.

That indicates manufacturers varying success in managing to use HDMI up to now. Those makers will get better with time. Heck, the HDMI standard will get better with time.

I don't yet have a TV with HDMI. It's 3 years old, so I have extra motive to wait for that evolving HDMI before I ever replace the TV.

A recent post included a link to HDMI itself. That showed the basic fee for makers to use HDMI is $15,000 a year. Peanuts for the big guys, yes. If products aren't uniformly executing HDMI in their recent products as per ''Secrets....'', what's the problem? Should the 15 grand get guidance from the HDMI folks as to how to properly use it?

In the mean time, not being a particularly early adopter, component connections seem to serve me well. I'll get to the digital HDMI eventually. More questions may be answered by then.

If someone out there has concise info it'd be good to hear from you.

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seriouly
by blklacker / October 7, 2006 1:17 PM PDT

When viewing 1080i content I cannot see a different whent using "expensive" compenent cables Vs. HDMI. If you go out and purchase $20 dollar component cables you might notice that the HDMI picture looks better. As of right now I dont think their is a picture quality differents between the two. But if their is you cant notice it by the eye. In Component vs HDMI unless you are viewing 1080p content I dont think it matters.

eye of the beholder

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What did it look like in the store?
by Dan Filice / October 5, 2006 3:47 PM PDT
In reply to: LCD's are crap why?

Before you bought the Samsung, what did it look like in the store? If your picture is worse than the HD picture you saw in the store, then there might be something on your end that's affecting the picture. Although, as you say, you have other HDTVs that look great, so I'm stumped. But, the Samsung should look stunning when connected to HD. I have a 23" Sony that's stunnng on HD. It's Sony's higher-end WEGA set (basically their XBR model), and next to my father-in-laws Samsung, the Sony has a better picture. But, the Samsung is a great set and I don't know any reason why it would look inferior. Just to do some simple trouble shooting, try connecting your satellite box to the Samsung via component video. Just get some cheap RCA type plugs to test it. Compare. If HDMI looks worse, then something's definitely wrong. I think that all fixed pixel TVs are going to have the screen door effect to some degree, but it's most noticable when sitting too close. Try lowering the brightness and contrast level and make sure the picture sharpness control is set to neutral. Most TVs come from the factory with the brightness cranked up to 100%, whereas 505 is more normal. I think the rule of thumb (when you don't have a setup DVD) is to adjust the brightness until the point in the black levels where you can just begin to see some detail. Then adjust the contrast until the whites come down in to where you can begin to see detail in the whites.

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Re:
by Psych Doc / October 6, 2006 1:33 AM PDT
In reply to: LCD's are crap why?

First off, lose the HDMI crap. It's a gimmick and it's ability to transmit signal (what this is all about after all) is horrible. Save yourself some money and get an infinitely better picture by making your connections via component cables. You don't have to be a rocket scientist (I'm certainly not) to understand why you'll get an infinitely better picture. You have three wires just allocated for the video transmission and then two more for the audio. This is compared to the one pathetic wire that HDMI provides. Yet (amazingly) the proponents of HDMI want you to believe that this is the superior interconnect.

Yeah, right!?

If you believe that I have a bridge located in Brooklyn I can get you a really good deal on.

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Thank You Guys
by Freddy408 / October 6, 2006 3:33 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:

Thanks for all the info you gave me. I tried the lowering contrast and brightness with sharpness at 50. I also sit right in front of it which probably seems to be the issue. IDK guys, I really do like the tv. I wish every channel was HD. It's not fun watching TV anymore when it's not HD.

BTW...i've tried it with HDMI and Components.

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HD vs SD
by Dan Filice / October 6, 2006 5:20 AM PDT
In reply to: Thank You Guys

Freddy408,

OK, wait a second. I see from this post that you mention watching TV that's not HD. Was this the problem all along, or is the HD reception bad to? If your TV just looks bad displaying SD signals, there's nothing you can do about that because your TV, and most others, are fixed pixels. SD material has 480 interlaced lines of picture at most (VHS has a pathetic 240 lines) and your TV is trying to fill 720 lines of resolution with practically nothing. This is just the way LCD, Plasma, DLP etc are. Some TVs do a better job of up-converting the signal than others.

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Great deal
by Pakman3000 / October 6, 2006 3:46 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:

I'll take that bridge in Brooklyn off your hands if you could throw in a pair of Wolf tickets also.

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HDMI *is* superior to ''component cables''
by RPrentice / October 6, 2006 7:29 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:

It's totally incorrect to state that ''component cables'' (analog) are better an HDMI (uncompressed digital) connection.

The author's statement that ''You have three wires just allocated for ''video transmission and then two more for the audio. This is compared to the one pathetic wire that HDMI provides'' suggests he doesn't have a clue how an HDMI cable actually works.

Don't just take my word for it. See the CNET TV Buying Guide: Key Features and Connectivity Guide at:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7608_7-1016109-5.html?tag=tnav#io

CNET states that HDMI provides the ''highest'' level of video quality.

For more information on why this is true see:
http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp#q1_3

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Yep, HDMI
by Dan Filice / October 6, 2006 9:49 AM PDT

I hooked my OPPO DVD player to my small Sony 23" LCD via HDMI and it looked great. I didn't do a side-by-side with component, but it looked great. One thing about HDMI is that we really won't have a choice because HDMI will become the default connection for HD devices in the future. Most of the upconverting DVD players will only do upconverting through HDMI, and in theory, the new HD DVD players will only do HD using HDMI. If not now, HDMI will become the connection for HD. I wish I had a new large TV with both HDMI and component so I could do a test for myself. My current 50" only has component, and my 23" is too small to really see discernable differences between the two.

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HDMI vs Component video
by gabereyes / October 6, 2006 1:31 PM PDT
In reply to: Yep, HDMI

one thing that both connections have is an most TVs on the market they both tranfer component and HDMI signals to standard RGB form before displaying the image, so in most cases there is no diffrent in picture quality do to TV's internal design.

as for HDMI becoming the stardard, Yes it will but not because of picture quality meanly because its one cable that can do everything that component, digital audio, six channel audio, and networking connection, like fire wire or USB can do.

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HDMI vs Component video
by gabereyes / October 6, 2006 1:31 PM PDT
In reply to: Yep, HDMI

one thing that both connections have is an most TVs on the market they both tranfer component and HDMI signals to standard RGB form before displaying the image, so in most cases there is no diffrent in picture quality do to TV's internal design.

as for HDMI becoming the stardard, Yes it will but not because of picture quality meanly because its one cable that can do everything that component, digital audio, six channel audio, and networking connection, like fire wire or USB can do.

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HDMI vs Component video
by gabereyes / October 6, 2006 1:32 PM PDT
In reply to: Yep, HDMI

one thing that both connections have is an most TVs on the market they both tranfer component and HDMI signals to standard RGB form before displaying the image, so in most cases there is no diffrent in picture quality do to TV's internal design.

as for HDMI becoming the stardard, Yes it will but not because of picture quality meanly because its one cable that can do everything that component, digital audio, six channel audio, and networking connection, like fire wire or USB can do.

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FREDDY ONE MORE THING TO TRY
by stewart norrie / October 6, 2006 3:30 AM PDT
In reply to: LCD's are crap why?

Your t.v. should look great, go into the menue on your satellite box and make sure its set to 1080I and 16X9 also try componit vidio cables and please reply when you have solved your problem steweeee

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Someone still remembers me =(
by Freddy408 / October 11, 2006 4:11 AM PDT

That you for actually replying to my topic. I think I started a debate on DLP, Plasma and LCD. All I wanted was to get good quality on my tv =(

I can't set my box to 1080 or anything. I can't even find the video setup but go figure it's comcast. Although I did put that setting for directv. I watch football in HD and it didnt make a difference.

Feedback: Didnt help, screen still looks crappy and pixelated.

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my LCD arrives Saturday
by TonyPa / October 11, 2006 7:07 AM PDT

I hope my Samsung 46" LN-S4692's picture looks as good as it did on the floor. I have Comcast and they can't get out to my house until one week after the new set arrives. My expectations will be low until it's attached to the new digital HDTV box.

The store had me purchase a boat load of expensive cables (HDMI, etc.), so my expectations will be high once I'm connected to HDTV.

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expectations
by blklacker / October 11, 2006 8:31 AM PDT

Your HD content will be terrific, dont expect regular SD channals to be anything special. Seriously SD signal is trash compared to HD on HDTV

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hmm
by blklacker / October 8, 2006 4:04 AM PDT
In reply to: LCD's are crap why?

When viewing 1080i content I cannot see a different whent using "expensive" compenent cables Vs. HDMI. If you go out and purchase $20 dollar component cables you might notice that the HDMI picture looks better. As of right now I dont think their is a picture quality differents between the two. But if their is you cant notice it by the eye. In Component vs HDMI unless you are viewing 1080p content I dont think it matters.

eye of the beholder

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