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General discussion

Ist it possible...

by Vesta / March 18, 2005 3:16 AM PST

to install a separate operating system (Windows XP) on a usb external hard drive? How? I'm always asked for more information so here's everything:


--------[ EVEREST Home Edition (c) 2003, 2004 Lavalys, Inc. ]-----------------------------------------------------------

Version EVEREST v1.51.195
Homepage http://www.lavalys.com/
Report Type Quick Report
Computer TOM-FG7MOKO018E (Thomas)
Generator Owner
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition 5.1.2600 (WinXP Retail)
Date 2005-03-18
Time 14:05


--------[ Summary ]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Computer:
Operating System Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
OS Service Pack Service Pack 2
Internet Explorer 6.0.2900.2180 (IE 6.0 SP2)
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)
Computer Name TOM-FG7MOKO018E (Thomas)
User Name Owner

Motherboard:
CPU Type Intel Pentium 4A, 2500 MHz (25 x 100)
Motherboard Name Foxconn 650M02-G (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 1 CNR, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN)
Motherboard Chipset SiS 650GX
System Memory 992 MB (DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type Award (01/09/04)
Communication Port Communications Port (COM1)
Communication Port Communications Port (COM2)
Communication Port Printer Port (LPT1)

Display:
Video Adapter SiS 650_651_M650_M652_740 (32 MB)
3D Accelerator SiS 315 Integrated
Monitor Plug and Play Monitor [NoDB]

Multimedia:
Audio Adapter SiS 7012 Audio Device

Storage:
IDE Controller SiS PCI IDE Controller
Disk Drive Maxtor 6Y060P0 (57 GB, IDE)
Disk Drive Generic USB Storage-MSC USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB Storage-MMC USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB Storage-SMC USB Device
Disk Drive Generic USB Storage-CFC USB Device
Disk Drive ST380011 A USB Device (80 GB, 7200 RPM, Ultra-ATA/100)
Optical Drive DVD+RW RW5240 (DVD:4x/4x/8x, CD:24x/10x/40x DVD+RW)
SMART Hard Disks Status OK

Partitions:
C: (FAT32) 58629 MB (51796 MB free)
J: (NTFS) 76316 MB (70829 MB free)

Input:
Keyboard Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
Mouse PS/2 Compatible Mouse

Network:
Network Adapter Netopia 802.11b WLAN USB Adapter (192.168.1.2)
Modem SoftV92 Data Fax Modem

Peripherals:
Printer Auto hp photosmart 7350 series on VESTA-Q4EO3HQCN
Printer Fax
Printer HP DeskJet 640C/642C/648C
USB1 Controller SiS 7001 PCI-USB Open Host Controller
USB1 Controller SiS 7001 PCI-USB Open Host Controller
USB2 Controller SiS 7002 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller
USB Device Netopia 802.11b WLAN USB Adapter
USB Device USB Mass Storage Device
USB Device USB Mass Storage Device


--------[ DMI ]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ BIOS ]

BIOS Properties:
Vendor Phoenix Technologies, LTD
Version 6.00 PG
Release Date 01/09/2004
Size 256 KB
Boot Devices Floppy Disk, Hard Disk, CD-ROM, ATAPI ZIP, LS-120
Capabilities Flash BIOS, Shadow BIOS, Selectable Boot, EDD
Supported Standards DMI, APM, ACPI, ESCD, PnP
Expansion Capabilities ISA, PCI, AGP, USB

[ System ]

System Properties:
Manufacturer Lan Plus
Wake-Up Type Power Switch

[ Motherboard ]

Motherboard Properties:
Product SiS-650

[ Chassis ]

Chassis Properties:
Chassis Type Desktop Case

[ Memory Controller ]

Memory Controller Properties:
Error Detection Method None
Error Correction None
Supported Memory Interleave 1-Way
Current Memory Interleave 1-Way
Supported Memory Types DIMM, SDRAM
Supported Memory Voltages 3.3V
Maximum Memory Module Size 1024 MB
Memory Slots 4

[ Processors / Intel Pentium(R) 4 ]

Processor Properties:
Manufacturer Intel
Version Intel Pentium(R) 4
External Clock 100 MHz
Current Clock 2500 MHz
Type Central Processor
Status Enabled
Upgrade ZIF
Socket Designation Socket 478

[ Caches / Internal Cache ]

Cache Properties:
Type Internal
Status Enabled
Operational Mode Write-Back
Maximum Size 20 KB
Installed Size 20 KB
Supported SRAM Type Synchronous
Current SRAM Type Synchronous
Socket Designation Internal Cache

[ Caches / External Cache ]

Cache Properties:
Type External
Status Enabled
Operational Mode Write-Back
Maximum Size 512 KB
Installed Size 512 KB
Supported SRAM Type Synchronous
Current SRAM Type Synchronous
Socket Designation External Cache

[ Memory Modules / A0 ]

Memory Module Properties:
Socket Designation A0
Type DIMM, SDRAM
Installed Size 512 MB
Enabled Size 512 MB

[ Memory Modules / A1 ]

Memory Module Properties:
Socket Designation A1
Type DIMM, SDRAM
Installed Size 512 MB
Enabled Size 512 MB

[ Memory Modules / A2 ]

Memory Module Properties:
Socket Designation A2
Installed Size Not Installed
Enabled Size Not Installed

[ Memory Modules / A3 ]

Memory Module Properties:
Socket Designation A3
Installed Size Not Installed
Enabled Size Not Installed

[ Memory Devices / A0 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Type SDRAM
Type Detail Synchronous
Size 512 MB
Total Width 64-bit
Data Width 64-bit
Device Locator A0
Bank Locator Bank0/1

[ Memory Devices / A1 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Type SDRAM
Type Detail Synchronous
Size 512 MB
Total Width 72-bit
Data Width 64-bit
Device Locator A1
Bank Locator Bank2/3

[ Memory Devices / A2 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Device Locator A2
Bank Locator Bank4/5

[ Memory Devices / A3 ]

Memory Device Properties:
Form Factor DIMM
Device Locator A3
Bank Locator Bank6/7

[ System Slots / PCI0 ]

System Slot Properties:
Slot Designation PCI0
Type PCI
Usage In Use
Data Bus Width 32-bit
Length Long

[ System Slots / PCI1 ]

System Slot Properties:
Slot Designation PCI1
Type PCI
Usage Empty
Data Bus Width 32-bit
Length Long

[ System Slots / PCI2 ]

System Slot Properties:
Slot Designation PCI2
Type PCI
Usage Empty
Data Bus Width 32-bit
Length Long

[ System Slots / PCI3 ]

System Slot Properties:
Slot Designation PCI3
Type PCI
Usage Empty
Data Bus Width 32-bit
Length Long

[ System Slots / AGP ]

System Slot Properties:
Slot Designation AGP
Type AGP
Usage Empty
Data Bus Width 32-bit
Length Long

[ Port Connectors / PRIMARY IDE ]

Port Connector Properties:
Internal Reference Designator PRIMARY IDE
Internal Connector Type On-Board IDE
External Connector Type None

[ Port Connectors / SECONDARY IDE ]

Port Connector Properties:
Internal Reference Designator SECONDARY IDE
Internal Connector Type On-Board IDE
External Connector Type None

[ Port Connectors / FDD ]

Port Connector Properties:
Port Type 8251 FIFO Compatible
Internal Reference Designator FDD
Internal Connector Type On-Board Floppy
External Connector Type None

[ Port Connectors / COM1 ]

Port Connector Properties:
Port Type Serial Port 16450 Compatible
Internal Reference Designator COM1
Internal Connector Type 9 Pin Dual Inline (pin 10 cut)
External Connector Type DB-9 pin male

[ Port Connectors / COM2 ]

Port Connector Properties:
Port Type Serial Port 16450 Compatible
Internal Reference Designator COM2
Internal Connector Type 9 Pin Dual Inline (pin 10 cut)
External Connector Type DB-9 pin male

[ Port Connectors / LPT1 ]

Port Connector Properties:
Port Type Parallel Port ECP/EPP
Internal Reference Designator LPT1
Internal Connector Type DB-25 pin female
External Connector Type DB-25 pin female

[ Port Connectors / Keyboard ]

Port Connector Properties:
Port Type Keyboard Port
Internal Reference Designator Keyboard
Internal Connector Type PS/2
External Connector Type PS/2

[ Port Connectors / PS/2 Mouse ]

Port Connector Properties:
Port Type Mouse Port
Internal Reference Designator PS/2 Mouse
Internal Connector Type PS/2
External Connector Type PS/2

[ Port Connectors / USB0 ]

Port Connector Properties:
Port Type USB
Internal Connector Type None
External Reference Designator USB0


--------[ Overclock ]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPU Properties:
CPU Type Intel Pentium 4A
CPU Alias Northwood, A80532
CPU Stepping D1
Engineering Sample No
CPUID CPU Name Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.50GHz
CPUID Revision 00000F29h

CPU Speed:
CPU Clock 2505.63 MHz (original: 2500 MHz)
CPU Multiplier 25.0x
CPU FSB 100.23 MHz (original: 100 MHz)

CPU Cache:
L1 Trace Cache 12K Instructions
L1 Data Cache 8 KB
L2 Cache 512 KB (On-Die, ECC, ATC, Full-Speed)

Motherboard Properties:
Motherboard ID 01/09/2004-SiS-650-6A6IXFK9C-00
Motherboard Name Foxconn 650M02-G (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 1 CNR, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN)

Chipset Properties:
Motherboard Chipset SiS 650GX
Memory Timings 2.5-3-3-6 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)

SPD Memory Modules:
DIMM1: Apacer Tech. 512 MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM (2.5-3-3-7 @ 142 MHz) (2.0-3-3-6 @ 133 MHz)
DIMM2: Micron Tech. 18VDDT6472AG-262G4 512 MB PC2100 ECC DDR SDRAM (2.5-3-3-7 @ 142 MHz) (2.0-2-2-6 @ 133 MHz)

BIOS Properties:
System BIOS Date 01/09/04
Video BIOS Date 04/23/20
Award BIOS Type Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message S650 Series 344xp526 010904
DMI BIOS Version 6.00 PG

Graphics Processor Properties:
DirectX 4.09.00.0904 (DirectX 9.0c)

Sensor Properties:
Tsystem 36

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Collapse -
No.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 18, 2005 3:57 AM PST
In reply to: Ist it possible...

XP so far has yet to be seen installed and working on an external USB drive.

Bob

Collapse -
Let me ask you this...
by Vesta / March 18, 2005 5:48 AM PST
In reply to: No.

I don't quite understand "back up". I know I can save documents on this external hard drive and if my computer crashes and I have to re-install Windows, I can retrieve the documents. Can I put all my programs on the external drive and retrieve them in the same way, or is it just a waste of time to "back up" programs? Thank you.

Collapse -
It's a lesson many learn the hard way.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 18, 2005 7:14 AM PST
In reply to: Let me ask you this...

Programs on the other hand are easy to reinstall. You plan ahead and make your disaster recovery kit with the CDs needed to get your software programs reinstalled.

Bob

Collapse -
Backing up programs: yes and no.
by Kees Bakker / March 18, 2005 7:16 AM PST
In reply to: Let me ask you this...

Vesta,

Yes, you can backup a folder in Program Files, by burning it to a CD or copying it to an external drive or a hard disk on a networked computer, and yes, you can copy it back (which is called "restore") if anything happens to the original contents of that folder.
But, no, most likely you can't copy it back and run it after doing something like a clean install of Windows XP. Most programs do need information the setup puts in the registry, and don't function once that is gone. Some program would function, but you can't tell in advance which ones.
But, yes, of course you can (and should!) backup the setup.exe or install.exe or xyz105.zip you download from the Internet and run it again to reinstall the program at anytime you like.
And also, no, this trick doesn't work for the essential parts of Windows XP itself. For Windows 98, it's no big problem, if you know enough of DOS.

Hope this makes it clearer for you. If not, post back, and somebody else will explain it a different way.

Kees

Collapse -
I got it now
by Vesta / March 18, 2005 9:19 AM PST

Hey, thanks for explaining it the way you did. I think I understand a little bit better now. About the information that the setup puts in the registry. That makes it clear. And I've always been deleting the setup.exe and the install.exe. once I've installed. From now on I will back them up. Thanks again.

Collapse -
Curious
by Vesta / March 18, 2005 8:39 PM PST
In reply to: No.

On another tech forum, I asked the same question and got this reply:

"Thank you for sending me the Everest report.
The good news is, yes! Your computer does support booting from a USB external hard drive. According to the Everest report, your computer's motherboard manufacturer and model is a Foxconn 650M02-G.

Please go here to download a manual for your computer's motherboard:
http://www.foxconnchannel.com/redesign/productsDownload_motherboard.cfm?pMotherboard=650M02-G-6L

Download the User Guide Manual that is shown there. The .pdf file that you will download is named 650M02-FOXCONN-V1.0-EN-120803.pdf. Save this file to your desktop, then open it. Look on pages 39 and 40 of that .pdf document (this document should open in Adobe Acrobat Reader). Looking on page 40 of that document, it clearly lists a USB hard disk drive (USB-HDD) as one of the options for booting from. Read that document for instructions on how to set your computer to look to a USB hard drive first to boot from."

First time user on that tech forum and I've been taking CNET techs' advice for about 2 years and it's always proven to be good advice. But I'm just curious as to what your reply is to the above. Thanks.

Collapse -
Why my reply is such.. (No USB boot to XP)
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 18, 2005 8:46 PM PST
In reply to: Curious

It's simply because I've tried it and asked Microsofties and also asked at the various trade shows I've attended. While I have witnessed a Linux boot from many USB attached drives, I've yet to witness a XP boot from an USB drive.

I know it's possible, but Microsoft seems to not want this to happen. Witness what happened to BartPE. That was a very nice bootable CD with Windows that could save people millions in data recovery... but noooooooo.....

Bob

Collapse -
Microsoft doesn't seem to have...
by Edward ODaniel / March 19, 2005 2:21 AM PST

any problem with the BartPE Bob.

It is still a useful tool for XP users.

Collapse -
I disagree.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 19, 2005 2:46 AM PST

The original BartPE was much more useful. It didn't require a reboot... You can read about that out on the web.

Bob

Collapse -
Reboot?
by Edward ODaniel / March 19, 2005 4:15 AM PST
In reply to: I disagree.

The current version requires none and is actually better than the original in native network support rather than having to hunt down files.

I did not even try his initial release but have used every public release version since 2.0.1 with the exception of 3.1.0 and also a few of the betas--don't recall any that required a "re-boot" (unless by that you are referring to systems that didn't provide native el torrito support).

Have you tried the Puppy multi-session live cd yet? http://www.goosee.com/puppy/

Pretty handy little (56 meg) Linux package that completely loads and runs in a RamDisk and allows writing back to the multi-session CD-R it is booted from. Fairly user friendly for those unfamiliar with Linux.

Collapse -
As is
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 19, 2005 4:53 AM PST
In reply to: Reboot?

The first versions would run 24x7. Current versions?

Collapse -
Thanks, now I understand your 'reboot' but...
by Edward ODaniel / March 19, 2005 6:46 AM PST
In reply to: As is

that little bit as well as the limitation on starting processes was simply to stay legal and prevent others passing around illegal operating systems. Those were in place prior to version 2.

Most recovery sessions do not extend beyond 24 hours at a stretch (actually most don't go beyond a few hours at a stretch) so that reboot is only a minor inconvenience in reality.

Collapse -
Here's why it was needed.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / March 19, 2005 8:25 AM PST

In an application we fielded (finally with a Linux boot CD) the concept was to have the OS and APP in CDROM form so no virus or user could harm it.

Another reason was for a "server" with no writeable files in the OS. That would be very bulletproof.

-> The first version of BartPE worked fine for this. But later that 24 hour limitation came into the product.

Shame really,

Bob

Collapse -
While the ability to boot from USB...
by Edward ODaniel / March 19, 2005 2:38 AM PST
In reply to: Curious

is available with your particular motherboard, you asked about installing Windows XP on a USB drive and the answer there is NO because XP will not install to a removable media drive (bootsector code doesn't respond properly and Kernal does not support minint switch).

If you want a separate OS that you can install on and boot from USB you have essentially a choice of DOS, Linux, or or possibly the BartPE by jumping through various hoops. Here is a link to installing Linux on USB http://featherlinux.berlios.de/docs.htm

Collapse -
I just tried it and no go with XP
by Steven Haninger / March 19, 2005 10:46 AM PST
In reply to: Ist it possible...

but I was previously successful with Win2K by plugging a HD with an existing OS in an external case. The drive was one removed from an older computer that I just kept on a shelf but had never reformatted it. I was surprised it ran. It did not configure all the hardware, of course. I have not tried a clean installation to an external device, however.

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