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General discussion

INTERPOL given preferences over US Citizens ...

by Edward ODaniel / December 31, 2009 1:20 AM PST

in this latest "amended" Executive Order.

As crafted by Regan EXECUTIVE ORDER 12425 extended certain diplomatic immunities to INTERPOL as an "International Organization." It also specifically DENIED some immunities such as immunity from search of properties and archives and immunities from various taxes.

Along comes Obama and with a stroke of the pen INTERPOL now has immunities that place their members ABOVE AND BEYOND our own law enforcement agencies and that would allow their agents to arrest, retain, and remove from this country WITHOUT bothering with extradition American Citizens.

For Immediate Release December 17, 2009
Executive Order -- Amending Executive Order 12425

EXECUTIVE ORDER
- - - - - - -
AMENDING EXECUTIVE ORDER 12425 DESIGNATING INTERPOL
AS A PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION ENTITLED TO
ENJOY CERTAIN PRIVILEGES, EXEMPTIONS, AND IMMUNITIES

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (22 U.S.C. 288), and in order to extend the appropriate privileges, exemptions, and immunities to the International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL), it is hereby ordered that Executive Order 12425 of June 16, 1983, as amended, is further amended by deleting from the first sentence the words "except those provided by Section 2(c), Section 3, Section 4, Section 5, and Section 6 of that Act" and the semicolon that immediately precedes them.

BARACK OBAMA
THE WHITE HOUSE,
December 16, 2009.


That replaces -

EXECUTIVE ORDER
- - - - - - -
EXECUTIVE ORDER 12425 DESIGNATING INTERPOL AS A PUBLIC INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION ENTITLED TO ENJOY CERTAIN PRIVILEGES, EXEMPTIONS, AND IMMUNITIES

By virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and statutes of the United States, including Section 1 of the International Organizations Immunities Act (59 Stat. 669, 22 U.S.C. 288), it is hereby ordered that the International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL), in which the United States participates pursuant to 22 U.S.C. 263a, is hereby designated as a public international organization entitled to enjoy the privileges, exemptions and immunities conferred by the International Organizations Immunities Act; except those provided by Section 2(c), the portions of Section 2(d) and Section 3 relating to customs duties and federal internal-revenue importation taxes, Section 4, Section 5, and Section 6 of that Act. This designation is not intended to abridge in any respect the privileges, exemptions or immunities which such organization may have acquired or may acquire by international agreement or by Congressional action.


RONALD REGAN
THE WHITE HOUSE,
June 16, 1983.


Clinton in EO 12971 of September 15, 1995 had already amended it to delete the words ??the portions of Section 2(d) and?? and the words ??relating to customs duties and federal internal-revenue importation taxes??. (this amendment was not earth shaking nor detrimental to American Sovereignty - unlike the new amendment)


Wither Sovereignty -- Executive Order Amended to Immunize INTERPOL In America - Is The ICC Next?

http://threatswatch.org/analysis/2009/12/wither-sovereignty/

Bolded text is QUOTED,

What price Freedom and American Sovereignty? Is this the PROTECTION of the Constitution an oath of office demands?

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I guess he figures
by JP Bill / December 31, 2009 3:01 AM PST

It's hard to argue that the CIA/FBI can do something in other countries that other police forces can't do in America?

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When in Rome
by Angeline Booher / December 31, 2009 3:54 AM PST

..... I don't think we live under our Constitution unless we are in the American Consulate,

So we are subject to the laws there, and tough we can hire local counsel, our "rights: are determined by them, as illustrated by the recent trial of the young American girl. We can be searched as they deem necessary.

Interpol has long been a respected and efficient organization that has cooperated with the US, and I know of no claims of abuse of our citizens by their operatives even in the many decades before Executive Order 12425,

I suspect it is an important arm in the war against terrorists. We can't forget we have had a US citizen turn to terrorism, the "Shoe Bomber".

I don't know if we know how well their network communicates with other agencies. However, I know of no reason why we should expect them to treat our citizens any differently as they have for decades, even those without 12425.

The other countries are also sovereign.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator

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You are missing a VERY IMPORTANT POINT ...
by Edward ODaniel / January 3, 2010 2:22 AM PST
In reply to: When in Rome

and that is that NO OTHER COUNTRY has given INTERPOL the broad immunity that Obama's amendment to the Reagan Executive Order has given them.

Since you speak of "when in Rome" you should acknowledge that "when in Rome" one is protected from over zealous INTERPOL agents as Italy has not granted INTERPOL such sweeping immunities.

There have been several times over the years that INTERPOL has wanted to extradite Americans (consider some CIA operatives and American Soldiers that Italy wanted a couple of years back) and our courts decided that extradition was improper and denied it. Under the new immunities granted all INTERPOL has to do is snatch the person and once in their custody they are free to do as they desire.

Did you maybe not read the entire article or some of the links it contained before unexpected the knee jerking began?

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Two remarks I hold to be officious.
by Angeline Booher / January 3, 2010 2:33 AM PST

One, that I didn't read all of the article, two, that my reaction was a knee jerk one. Neither one applies to the topic, but only to me personally.

I stand by what I wrote, It is my position, and makes no demands on you to agree.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator

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I stand by my response and yours enforces my stand ...
by Edward ODaniel / January 4, 2010 2:25 AM PST

as you appear to be under the impression (based on the words you wrote) that this applies to Americans in other countries - it doesn't!

The Amended EO grants INTERPOL the freedom to simply ignore our laws while in our country and to thumb their noses at our judicial system if we attempt to insist that they can't come into the country, apprehend whoever they desire and remove them without extradition.

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A VERY IMPORTANT POINT ...
by Mike_Hanks / January 3, 2010 2:38 AM PST

Also, so what if every other nation in the world allowed INTERPOL to do this, that dose NOT make it right for INTERPOL to do what Obama is going to allow them to do.

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snatch the person
by JP Bill / January 3, 2010 3:28 AM PST

snatch the person and once in their custody they are free to do as they desire.

WHERE/WHY would anyone get the notion to do that? (rendition?)

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You really NEED to discover the facts ...
by Edward ODaniel / January 4, 2010 2:27 AM PST
In reply to: snatch the person

regarding rendition before blathering.

Very little research would show you just how ignorant your comment really is (but then we wouldn't have enjoyed the laugh you unintentionally provided)

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but then we wouldn't have enjoyed the laugh
by JP Bill / January 4, 2010 11:46 AM PST

I'm glad you are finding something to laugh about in 2010, perhaps you could spread some joy and happiness, I know it will also be unintentional.

you're right, I was wrong it's "Extraordinary Rendition"

The US program prompted several official investigations in Europe into alleged secret detentions and unlawful inter-state transfers

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i thought this was a quote from the article
by jonah jones / January 3, 2010 3:59 AM PST

Along comes Obama and with a stroke of the pen INTERPOL now has immunities that place their members ABOVE AND BEYOND our own law enforcement agencies and that would allow their agents to arrest, retain, and remove from this country WITHOUT bothering with extradition American Citizens.
=-=-=-=-=-=

apparently not

Property and assets being immune from search and confiscation means precisely that. Wherever they may be in the United States. This could conceivably include human assets - Americans arrested on our soil by INTERPOL officers


,.

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I don't get it
by James Denison / January 3, 2010 7:19 AM PST

I don't see how you get from this;

EXECUTIVE ORDER 12425 extended certain diplomatic immunities to INTERPOL as an "International Organization." It also specifically DENIED some immunities such as immunity from search of properties and archives and immunities from various taxes.

All the way to this;

INTERPOL now has immunities that place their members ABOVE AND BEYOND our own law enforcement agencies and that would allow their agents to arrest, retain, and remove from this country WITHOUT bothering with extradition American Citizens.

All I get from the first is Interpol is being extended the same concept that embassies work under.

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INTERPOL is NOT an Embassy nor an element of ...
by Edward ODaniel / January 4, 2010 2:19 AM PST
In reply to: I don't get it

any specific government, it is an International Organization and as indicated in the text of the original EO international Organizations do not (and never have) enjoyed the same immunities as Diplomats in the service of their own country. Not ever MOST of the nationals working in any embassy enjoy much in the way of immunities, just their diplomatic corps.

INTERPOL has branched out from its origins and has become an enforce,ment arm of the UN and the World Court (which we are not signatory to nor beholden to for the fact of abrogation of sovereignty).

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Seems you are not the only one who believes this
by James Denison / January 4, 2010 3:41 AM PST
http://newsrealblog.com/2010/01/03/obama-unleashes-international-cops-on-the-united-states/

Imagine now a foreign international police department that does not have to worry about the constraints of the Fourth Amendment, an agency that has license to bypass American Courts of Law, can investigate and arrest American citizens within our own borders, haul them off to Court in a foreign land, and does not have to reveal any records or documents to anyone in the United States. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I can foresee American military officers and enlisted personnel, CIA agents, former White House policy makers, even **** Cheney and George Bush in jeopardy of left-driven arrests and war-crimes prosecutions.

Impossible, you say! Well, now, hold on. That police department is called Interpol. The Court I?m talking about is in The Netherlands.

==============================

It would seem however that what's being extended is as I suspected, diplomatic privileges.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/White-House-still-refusing-to-answer-Interpol-Executive-Order-questions-80467352.html

All of the concerns raised by critics likely could be allayed with a credible White House response to this most basic question: What does President Obama think Interpol should be able to do within the U.S. with the added diplomatic privileges and immunities that it could not do in the U.S. without them prior to Dec. 16, 2009?

===================================

This op ed thinks Obama is trying to find a way to use someone else as a cat's paw against the former administration. Sort of like Pilate washing his hands of evil deeds.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/What-is-Barack-Obama-doing_-8700165-80341107.html
But what if he simply sees it as an innocuous path to the arrest and prosecution of selected political opponents for "crimes against humanity" in, say, Iraq and Afghanistan? The Far Left would get its pound of Bush-Cheney flesh, while leaving minimal blood on Obama's hands and giving his defense and foreign policy critics reason to think twice before speaking candidly against him in the future.
============================

I believe if any such action is attempted against former US officers by some international group, there will be a quick path to war and Interpol will be completely run out of the US, and maybe there will be enough ire by then to toss the UN out too.
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Welcome to the world of Global terrorism. Personally anybody
by Ziks511 / January 3, 2010 6:37 PM PST

with an international database as large as theirs seems a good person to have on board. Now instead of water-skiing behind the ship of state communicating by megaphone, they're riding in a guest cabin and can pick up a telephone. This is no more an erosion of sovereignty any more than any other diplomatic immunity is. And this seems to directly address the terrorism problem.

Nor is this purely an Obam decision, though his name is on it; any more than Reagan's decision was entirely his own. YOu can be sure that both men consulted all the legal authorities and the FBI, NSA, CIA, and any other bunch of letters who might have an opinion.

Nice to see you taking up an ACLU position on this though, Ed.

Rob

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poo poo on you...
by James Denison / January 4, 2010 3:56 AM PST

...says a Progressive from Portland. Isn't Progressive the new catch word for "Communist"?

http://www.examiner.com/x-4383-Portland-Progressive-Examiner~y2010m1d2-Right-wing-politics-Interpol-paranoia

Right wing politics: Interpol paranoia. The blogosphere is lighting up with outrage over a rather benign Executive Order issued by President Obama recently. The order extends certain privileges and immunities to the International Criminal Police Organization, better known as Interpol.

The order simply extends diplomatic protection to the agency. The order doesn't allow Interpol to do any thing more than they were allowed to do once Reagan recognized them as a public international organization in 1983.

Conservatives are in the process of blowing the story way out of proportion.
======================================
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/12/just-what-did-president-obamas-executive-order-regarding-interpol-do.html

Immunities Act.

The International Organizations Immunities Act, signed into law in 1945, established a special group of foreign or international organizations whose members could work in the U.S. and enjoy certain exemptions from US taxes and search and seizure laws.

Experts say there are about 75 organizations in the US covered by the International Organizations Immunities Act -- including the United Nations, the International Atomic Energy Agency, the International Monetary Fund, the International Committee of the Red Cross, even the International Pacific Halibut Commission and Inter-American Tropical Tuna Commission.

(These privileges are not the same as the rights afforded under "diplomatic immunity," they are considerably less. "Diplomatic immunity" comes from the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which states that a "diplomatic agent shall enjoy immunity from the criminal jurisdiction of the receiving State." That is NOT what the International Organizations Immunities Act is.)

Basically, recognizing a group under the International Organizations Immunities Act means officials from those organizations are exempt from some taxes and customs fees, and that their records cannot be seized.
===================
Seems they will be able to gather records on you or others and not be bound by privacy laws nor Freedom of Information requests.

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There is no credible Communist movement. They Lost, You Won
by Ziks511 / January 4, 2010 12:04 PM PST
In reply to: poo poo on you...

Get Over It.

Rob

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