156 total posts
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iMac G3, MacBook, iPod Touch, iPod Mini
Zip, None, Nada, Zilch
Have no real need for the i-phone, i-pod, etc. from apple. Fine with what I have.
I have an old iPod Nano 2nd Gen, and a New 8GB iPod Touch. I like Apple, but everything is so expensive!!!
Of course Apple is expensive. They are in it for the money. That's why none ot their old stuff is compatible with any of their new stuff. That's why they sell things with batteries that cannot be replaced. Apple isn't in the battery business yet.
Don't get too far out on a branch of the Apple tree. When it becomes less than a stunning profit, they saw it off and you hit the ground under the weight of all of their expensive devices.
All of the tech pushers do that, but the Apple is at the bottom of the barrel.
Apple is focused on improving your Quality of life!
Would you buy a pair of boots that cost more money if you knew the quality was better than other brands, and that they will last longer? That's the way to look at Apple products. You said, "That's why none ot their old stuff is compatible with any of their new stuff." That tells me you don't own any Apple computers. I still have my first computer a Apple Fat Mac, upgraded to MacPlus. There was always a way to run my older software, but I never had to worry about it because I've never in 23 years have had a Apple computer not work! Quality baby, learn about it. Also it does cost more to do research and develop in lower quantities. Disadvantage of a smaller market share but that's changing maybe it's time for you to learn more about Apple, and change. Stop showing your specious biases...
My best friend who learned and started his CPA business on a IBM XT (a real computer) couldn't get it to work for months, used my MacPlus with Excel and a Imagewriter printer until his XT was up. He didn't want to give it back. He started his business making money using a Apple. That's what Apple thinks about making money, that you should be making it. Quality of Life. That's anti- establishment, not status quo. Ok, Ok I'm done. Sometimes the half truths get to me and I have to speak up. Beta was better than VHS also!
Why I Don't Own Any Apple Products
In my personal opinion (and the reasons why I don't own any Apple products):
Apple products are: too expensive. (examples: I-Pods, I-Phones, Computers) [Other brands accomplish the same effect cheaper]
Apple products are: too restrictive. (not compatible w/ other technologies). [I-Tunes for example.]
No Apple products
Overpriced and they don't make anything that I feel I have to have.
I could care less about game playing. I hate hate hate cell phones. When I am in a crowd I prefer to keep my attention on what is around me rather than having dissonant sounds pouring into my ears.
When it comes to computers, I feel that Apple is far too restrictive for me. Should I want to do something that doesn't fit the Apple mould, I would be hard-pressed to find a way to do it. Lately they have made other company's products usable on their computers if you use the wrappers to make them work but why should I bother doing that when I can get the task done without having to mess with the wrappers.
Just nothing there for me at all. I can understand that others like the stuff. It just does not float my boat.
I Feel the Same About Apple
Too expensive for products that are too proprietary. I'm also not in the trendy crowd and usually find other similar products (mp3 player, cell phone and PC's) that serve me well, do more and at less cost. I also usually don't get hung up on marketing hype that this company (I also feel the same about Bose) uses.
you don't know what you are missing
There are some pretty silly responses below... but the short answer is that after 20+ years in the tech fields, working with and selling many platforms... I find that Apple makes some of the best all around products available. They are one of the few companies that actually care about the user experience when they bring out a new product.
There are many White Paper reports and reviews out there that bust the myth that they cost more... you get what you pay for.. if you want junk that doesn't work, there is plenty out there to throw your money away on (like designer label rip offs).
Right now I'm down to 2 laptops, one desktop, 3 ipods and an Airport Express for my printer which also gives me WiFi on the road.
We have a PC laptop and desktop, mostly because there isn't a Mac version of AutoCAD.... but with the new Intel Macs there are no longer software reasons to refrain from having well built, beautiful equipment. My dad (a retired hardware engineer) recently bought a cheap PC laptop and had to send it back to the factory twice before it would function properly. I've personally owned at least 8 Macs and and worked with hundreds... only two had minor defects and those were corrected promptly.
TCO vs ROI
Sure, Apple makes some good stuff, and maybe for some applications it makes the best stuff. But for most people (and most business') a PC will do everything they need for a lot less money. We don't buy Indy cars to go to the market, we buy Corollas. We don't buy Lear jets to go on vacation, we buy airline tickets. Why should we buy the most expensive option for a home computer?
That's very simply put, I agree. Remember Molly's "apple is my bad boyfriend" thing on The Buzz Report? I completely agree with that. I have a client for graphic design, and the fact that they use a mac makes everything harder since a few programs that would make the job easier for them only work on Windows and Linux.
Lets talk expenses
I have a Centris, Power PC tower, G3, G4 Dual processor, and now a G5 8 processor as well as a Gen.1, Shuffle, Nano and iTouch ipods. and several monitors.
They all work. I still have them all because they never let me down. I didn't have to buy parts for any because the latest OS required me to. I've never had to take any for servicing and I've never had to buy any anti virus/anti spyware software and the bundled software takes care of most of my needs.
A full copy of Vista costs $319, Leopard (which is better by all accounts) is $129. MS Office costs more than double iWorks $79, I'm sorry but when you add it all up Macs are not more expensive.
Our house just bought a new PC (because it would be cheaper right?) but we had to buy a new monitor, a copy of XP (we paid extra to have Vista removed) and our old printer still won't work with it. It would have cost much less to buy a Mac mini which can run XP, Vista or Leopard.
RE: Lets talk expenses
vista desktops starting @ 300.00 open office $0.00
399.00 laptop running vista w/open office much better than any i-mac running same Intel hardware with 60% less cost. anti virus can be found for free and most carriers include it in your service. Macs are still not ready to replace windows. great for your mom or pop who have never used a computer before but not for everyday users who need to do more than surf.This is coming from someone who owns a mac g5.Its great for editing movies pics and graphic arts. but lacks use with most common inexpensive hardware like webcams, wireless anything, and printers.
Apple is more about being different than it is about being better.
costs more, but you get so much more
i'm a scientist and our whole dept has gone to Apple. they're stable, run open source software, have unix... they're the best. we need to get work done and time saved is priceless.
i agree Apple products are NOT more expensive over time if you compare the OS updates for Windows, the extra stuff you have to add to a cheap PC to get it to function decently, the open source software. (not true for linux of course, but then the OS is not as friendly as OSX) reliability -- i have my original Powerbook i bought in 1992, and it still works beautifully although I do have newer ones.
i teach and i see students struggling to do things on their windows machines that they could easily do if they had powerbooks (or linux but that is not as easy either). and i do mean struggling.
bottom line: you want to play games? get a pc. want to work? get apple. life is too short to get stuck with a lousy OS.
Used your logic...... didn't work out, IMO Apple is better
I don't get why you bring Openoffice into the equation since its available for both Windows and Mac (works really well on both).
But I do get the difference in price you mention mainly on the hardware, last year I got a Gateway Core 2 Duo 1.84Ghz and nice couple more specs for almost $600 less than the equivalent in Imac, and I've regreted it ever since.
Vista has been the reason, its been a nightmare pluggin it to my office network, I couldn't import my old emails which I use for reference and archive, couldn't use my scanner or computer phone, I ended up wasting more money and TIME, and frustration because I couldn't work with Vista. I had to keep using my old XP computer. And neither Gateway nor Microsoft support had a clue in how to help me.
Just to add salt to the wound I brought my Mac mini from home and set it up in minutes, but I had to return it home since my family where screaming for it
RE: Used your logic...... didn't work out, IMO Apple is bett
Lets start with open office.. The original post said that u need to buy office. this is not a necessity. 2. i am comparing pc's vs mac not pc's vs vista. vista has its issues but i can do anything i want on a windows box for 60-75% less money.If you had mail trouble that has nothing to do with any OS. macs are great for homes and schools just don't try to put them in an enterprise environment. more headaches for IT. ask any network engineer how they like macs in there environment. and they will tell you macs are trouble. I can understand your frustration with vista on a gateway. I am sure its bloated gateway build. i would strip it down and downgrade to xp. If its a celeron proc with less than a gig i would go to linux forthe best performance. FYI if you brought your mac in to my network you wouldn't even get in the door. not to mention if you plugin any non registered mac address your port would be disabled. your importing of mail is not a pc issue. i can import export mail on any platform.
RE: Lets talk expenses
A few comments about Macs not working with inexpensive hardware. First, all current generation Macs except the Mac Mini and Mac Pro have webcams built it, so you wouldn't need to buy another. Next, all Macs have 802.11n built in. I just bought a new PC for office stuff and I had to pay an extra $50 to upgrade from 802.11g. Not to mention that I had to get a separate router for it because it didn't recognize my AirPort Extreme base station. (I might mention that both my Macs instantly were able to use the new router, while I had to spend nearly an hour before my PC would be able to use it too.) I also had to get a new printer because my new Vista PC didn't like my less-than-a-year-old other printer. Again my Macs had no problem printing to the new one, while the PC had the most difficult time.
Also, in the long run, Macs are cheaper than PCs because they almost never get viruses. I went through 4 PCs in 6 years due to viruses, and I had the most advanced security software available. In the 6 years since I switched to Macs, I have never had a single problem. So, 4 PCs at about $400 base is a lot cheaper than 1 $1,200 iMac, not to mention the hundreds I spent on security software. The only things Microsoft beats Apple in are work related stuff and gaming--that's it.
iWorks may be cheaper,but it lacks the features and simpleness of office. even office for macs is at least 2 times as complicated as its windows counterpart. People say Mac's are way easier to use than a windows machine. I can't figure out how to do half the things on a mac that i can do in windows by clicking one button, and i'm a tech. Although i don't work with macs often.
Also, if you had bought the machine with xp, than it would not have costed any extra, second of all, why would you pay to have an os removed? if you knew anything about computers, you could do it yourself.
Lastly, although apple doesn't like to admit it, there are simple ways to run an apple os on a pc. all you have to do is buy a pci card that adds in the missing hardware, tricking OSX into thinking its a mac.
What can of Tech?
A Microsoft certified tech? It's unbelievable. You guys aren't listening and have not used Apple enough to overcome your habitual biases toward PC. Even running Vista or XP on a Mac is easier through Fusion or Parallels! Yes you have to think to use multi-modalities. But thinking is good for you, and then you'll find out Apple's are better. The user interface is more powerful reducing many steps for every application, except Microsoft's. Gee I wonder why?
Reading what you guys are saying reminds me of the story about three sisters cooking their traditional family reunion dinner. The sisters are fighting over how to prepare the traditional dinner ham and how to cut it. Finally they realized their Grandmother can tell them how to cut the ham bone. They run over to her and ask where do they make the cut on the ham? The Grandmother says, "oh my the only reason I cut the ham that way was because we were to poor to buy a bigger baking pan!"
You guys are repeating the same fiction about Apple's because you don't want to change, even when it's better. I agree you don't believe they are better but you won't listen or learn either. You habitually do the same thing repeat the same fiction. I'm a Engineer I work with human user interfaces all the time trying to understand why you guys can't stop making the same mistakes. You are not willing to change habits! That's it. I love the statement that the Apple isn't a real computer. Why do you think that? You say because you don't have a command line? How silly, but if want to use a terminal or c-shell you still can on the Mac. Go find out you can do anything you say that you can't on a Mac and more. You just don't know, admit it. If you want to play games buy a PC, if you want a super computer but don't want to give up Microsoft buy a Apple and run Vista use your old software, with the Mac you'll find out you don't need anything else. But doing it this way you'll have a better computer multi-versatile, and you won't have to change! Apple even addresses human shortcomings. Macs are the way, get used to it.
Kiss My Apple,
This Apple/PC debate reaches the point of being absurd.
Use you brain, evaluate your needs, decide which system will best suit them, and buy that product. If you like Apples, buy a bushel of Apples and shut up. If you like Microsoft/PC equipment, buy a truckload of that and shut up.
Bottom line? Buy whatever you prefer and shut up. Arguing the superiority of one over the other falls into the category of political debate: Bullshit from both sides.
What am I going to decide? To get out of this idiotic debate and continue to pursue more important matters.
Thank you all for your demonstration of egotistical fanaticisim.
Great reply, great response.
You couldn't have stated it much better. Overpriced is not the only problem, available products is in there also.
a reply to: Why I Don't Own Any Apple Products
Just a quick note to say I agree 100% with the above reasons for not owning any Apple products. I do have some Applesauce in the fridge though... hmm...
So far 3-4, more on the way
So far I own a MacBook Air (got rid of my crappy S*ny Va*o), an iPhone (beats a Windows Mobile Phone any day) and a Mac Mini. I still like PC's, and am running a Windows Server; however, my quad-core work station will eventually get replaced with an 8-core Mac Pro eventually, and within the next two weeks I will begin running an Apple Server for my business. The new iPhone comes out in June also, can't wait!! As an IT person, all I can say is scr*w M*crosoft, Apple rocks all the way. Need to run Windows, bo problem, that's why VM Ware Fusion exists.
RE: So far 3-4, more on the way
If your an it person you should know how to un-bloat your Sony Vaio to run as good as most macs. Lets see you try and run any game on your mac. 90% of games are not compatable with mac.lets see you get those macs secure running in a corp network.They are great for home but lets keep them there. Let mom and pop check there email with them.
The I-phone is for people who need gadgets. Get an env2 for $100 and you can do as much for 80% less money. so you don't get touch screen not a big deal. You still get pics, vid, mp3, and txt all you can.
If your looking for performance just install any version of linux and you will get more bang from your hardware than either OSX or Vista.
games vs work
>> Lets see you try and run any game on your mac. 90% of games are not compatable with mac.lets see you get those macs secure running in a corp network.They are great for home but lets keep them there. Let mom and pop check there email with them.
So you play games at work and do what at home? Sounds like one of those guys who can' trick out a game machine but can figure out how to run a cross-platform network... your professional priorities are showing.
>>just install any version of linux
just what the real world is using for serious work... but then it DOES run in parallel WITH the other two operating systems on the Mac.
Listen to yourself
"If you are a IT person you should know how to un-bloat your Sony Vaio to run as good as most macs." Pt.#1. In this statement you admit you have to be a IT tech to get your PC's to run as good as a Mac! Power to the people, you don't have to be a IT tech to make a Mac run correctly. Pt.#2. You admit Mac's are better! You also state because PC's are a good gaming machine they belong at work. Don't tell your Manager that's why you are recommending PC's. Linux is a little bit better than Unix but I don't believe it's any more secure. The Mac is Unix based. You can run your Linux on the Mac and still have the better hardware that comes with owning a Apple product. iPhone's, read "Business Week" everyone is starting to replace their BB's with iPhones and are demanding that their offices follow. By the way why has Windows copied as much as they could from Mac's?
PC's are Important, Not Missed Though
Stuff you can't easily do:
Run more than 4GB of RAM
Download Apps on a non-iPhone
Run iTunes well on a non-iPhone
...anyways, this Mac/PC war has been going on forever, and it's all about personal choice, deign, innovation and branding. It's not hard getting an iPhone or a Mac running on a secure corp network.
About the games, that's why VMware exists, incase the game isn't out for OS X; but game developers have realized that PC's no longer hold the huge market chunk they once did due to Apple's innovation. After this business quarter you'll see a major increase in Apple sales again. ...and yeah, you shouldn't be playing games at work, it's wrong and unethical.
between me and my best friend (we share so i count both of ours).
2nd gen iPod
4th gen iPod
2nd gen iPod shuffle (orange)
160gb iPod classic (silver)
160gb iPod classic (black)
i currently own a Macbook and a iPhone
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