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Here's where gun contol is most needed

by Steven Haninger / January 30, 2013 / 1:14 PM UTC
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Chicago has become a war zone
by Josh K / January 30, 2013 / 1:34 PM UTC

Most of the illegal guns in Chicago are brought in from places like Indiana (right next door) where the laws are more lenient. That's why we need consistency. If you eliminate those disparities, you remove a big segment of the black market.

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It's mostly drugs, isn't it?
by Steven Haninger / January 30, 2013 / 1:42 PM UTC

and prostitution is another way to make a living. You go after the root cause and the competition for business goes away. I don't think it's the gun traffic that anything more than a sideline business. Weapons are tools of the trade. Stop the trade and the tools aren't needed. I just don't know what it would take to interrupt the drug pipeline as it has quite a number of feeders.

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as long as there are enough buyers with enough money
by Roger NC / January 30, 2013 / 2:31 PM UTC

someone will provide the drugs.

The tighter the laws and even the enforcement, the more valuable smaller amounts of drugs are.

So unless you can eliminate the market, you can't stop the trade. The more risk involve the higher the cost and the more violent and dangerous the sellers.

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It's gang activity
by Josh K / January 31, 2013 / 1:50 PM UTC

Drug trafficking is a big part of that, yes, but so is gun trafficking.

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It's the drugs they want
by Steven Haninger / January 31, 2013 / 2:26 PM UTC
In reply to: It's gang activity

Guns just help them get it. They don't need guns to get food, clothing and shelter...mostly drugs. If you could make the guns go away...which I doubt you can...they'd use knives, sticks, fists, whatever it took. Make the drugs go away and the guns wouldn't serve much purpose. Drugs are the disease and trying to take away the guns won't cure it.

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They're selling the drugs, more than using them
by Josh K / February 1, 2013 / 6:32 AM UTC

Junkies don't make very good gangbangers. Drugs are an income source, as are guns. The Hells Angels have been tied to both "industries" also.

Remove the poverty and you remove the attractions to those kinds of businesses, as well as the gang culture.

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HAHAHAHAH
by TONI H / February 1, 2013 / 7:15 AM UTC

"REMOVE THE POVERTY", you say? FYI, the war on poverty has been around for years and years.......how's that workin' out for you?

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I was talking to Steven
by Josh K / February 1, 2013 / 7:18 AM UTC
In reply to: HAHAHAHAH

He referenced eliminating the market. My response was that the market will be there as long as the motivation is. The motivation, in most cases, is money.

I'm glad you find poverty so funny though.

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Poverty isn't funny
by TONI H / February 1, 2013 / 1:49 PM UTC

but liberals have believed since 'forever' that they could stop it......and they are still trying with 'fair share' garbage.

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(NT) I agree about the market remaining there
by James Denison / February 1, 2013 / 1:53 PM UTC
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It will until people learn to have the good sense
by Steven Haninger / February 1, 2013 / 1:57 PM UTC

to stop putting poison in their bodies because it makes them forget something or feel better for a short time.

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You don't think it's the impoverished who
by Steven Haninger / February 1, 2013 / 8:40 AM UTC

are the drug users already?...and that if they had more money they'd turn away from drugs? Poverty, drugs addiction, violence are a self-sustaining cycle. Guns are but a tool used to get money and drugs. Other tools are available. If you could take all of the guns away from the criminals using them in this type of crime, you could maybe slow it but not stop it. So from whom should you take the guns? No doubt that economic issues are a catalyst in the cycle but being poor cannot be an excuse for becoming addicted and staying that way. We have some pockets of growing amorality that we're trying to manage but not correct. Our secular way of correction is through the prison system. Why not use it as a deterrent rather than just a potential temporary inconvenience for criminals? Put some teeth into laws and make them something other than opportunities for creative criminal lawyers to find loopholes and workarounds. If you commit a crime, you will have a mandatory sentence. If you commit violence, the time you're locked up will be longer. If you use a gun, you're done. It's plain and simple. Yes, I know our jails are already overcrowded but that's largely because we turn criminals over through a revolving door system. They are transient residents and too soon out on the streets. There's no incentive to worry about being arrested. At least that's what I understand about Chicago versus some other places like NYC.

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To make money, you sell to those who can afford the drugs
by Pepe7 / February 1, 2013 / 11:34 AM UTC

In Chi-town, the major east-west expressway is know as the 'Heroin highway', with so many suburbanites (with $$) driving into the bad urban areas to purchase drugs. A very large percentage of the market is selling to upscale buyers.

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how do you "remove poverty"?
by James Denison / February 1, 2013 / 1:52 PM UTC

It's not like "poverty" is a substance you can wash off, or extract, or amputate. Poverty is a lack. Too often it's not as much a lack of money as a lack of effort. There is a market for the drugs and like all markets, eventually a supply shows up if the price is right. Police action raises the price to make it right, and the forces of supply and demand surge. The more you penalize something, the greater it's value becomes.

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Yes, disparity, caused by Chicago
by James Denison / January 30, 2013 / 4:15 PM UTC

Therefore it is Chicago which must change.

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(NT) All cities with gang and drug problems...
by Steven Haninger / January 30, 2013 / 4:21 PM UTC
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you want the whole state of Indiana
by James Denison / February 7, 2013 / 7:53 AM UTC

to change and dance to Chicago's tune? Let Chicago change.

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re: Here's where gun contol is most needed
by MarkatNite / January 30, 2013 / 4:22 PM UTC

OK, since you apparently already know that the shooter was in possession of the gun legally, and how this came to be, please tell the rest of us specifically what kind of law would have prevented him from getting the gun in the first place.

Mark

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What??? Where did I say that??
by Steven Haninger / January 30, 2013 / 4:24 PM UTC

I think you need a 10 day waiting period before responding to my post. Happy

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he posted in the wrong thread
by James Denison / January 30, 2013 / 4:27 PM UTC

intended for the NRA member's thread.

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(NT) psychic?
by Roger NC / January 30, 2013 / 5:18 PM UTC
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Typical. Resort to ad hominem...
by MarkatNite / January 31, 2013 / 7:00 PM UTC

...when you have no factual, substantive rebuttal. But to preempt you from continuing to be intentionally obtuse:

You said, "Here's where gun control is most needed."

So specifically what gun control measure(s) do you think are needed here?

Mark

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It means you take your gun control fight to the
by Steven Haninger / February 1, 2013 / 1:43 AM UTC

inner city streets where the violence is happening daily against innocent people. It means you round up these criminals and put them and their guns in a lockup and not just go after the easy prey of those who have purchased guns legally, are registered, and their whereabouts known. That's what it means. I think you might do well to ask for clarification if you're not sure of what's being said rather than jumping down someone's throat. BTW, a personal attack wasn't made. That charge is also false. I was simply using a phrase you used related to jumping up and down with unverified information. It was meant, slightly, to be humorous and not uncomplimentary. Get it now?

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what about a reverse approach?
by James Denison / February 1, 2013 / 1:56 PM UTC

Allow drugs to be so cheap for them there is no need for users without adequate income to turn to crime to supply their addiction? The price drops so much that it becomes unprofitable for street gangs to compete with their substandard supplies?

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and create zombies on the cheap?
by Steven Haninger / February 1, 2013 / 1:59 PM UTC

You just replace one problem with another.

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one problem?
by James Denison / February 1, 2013 / 2:07 PM UTC

Less jail space taken up. Less police time concentrated on drug users, available for other areas involving crimes against others rather than personal sins affecting one's own body. Loss of any reason for gangs to fight over sale of drugs since they could no longer compete against a cheap supply, not enough money in it anymore. The War on Drugs has become the longest running Prohibition Act in this country's history and resulted in the same predictable crime wave.

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You want these people on the highways
by Steven Haninger / February 1, 2013 / 2:22 PM UTC
In reply to: one problem?

while you're driving or anywhere near weapons or other dangerous objects that can be used as such if they lose it? Not me.

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I don't want them there now
by James Denison / February 1, 2013 / 2:25 PM UTC

But surprise!

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actually you'd decrease the population due to overdose
by Roger NC / February 1, 2013 / 3:09 PM UTC

easier and cheaper drugs for the most dependent would result in more overdose.

Some would probably be profoundly Dickinsan and say good riddance.

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Yup.....
by Josh K / February 2, 2013 / 7:57 AM UTC

.....in much the same way that easier access to guns results in more people getting shot. Wink

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