Speakeasy forum


Here's how BO wins

by TONI H / December 4, 2012 8:33 PM PST

and gets exactly what he wants......

Let the country go over that fiscal cliff.....raise taxes on everybody and not just on the high end earners, blame the Republicans, but at the same time this allows the sequestration requirements of gutting the military and a few domestic programs. He gets his cake and eats it, too.

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How exactly is that a "win" for him or anyone?
by Josh K / December 4, 2012 10:43 PM PST
In reply to: Here's how BO wins

I know I'll be sorry I asked.

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Here's how
by TONI H / December 4, 2012 11:22 PM PST

The Republicans offered to give BO his $800B in revenue via eliminating deductions on the TOP EARNERS.....so the money BO wants would be coming from the very people he wants taxed, BUT he is insisting that the ONLY way he will accept a 'deal' is if the Republicans agree to raise the TAX RATE on that group. It doesn't matter to him that the money will still be coming from the group that he wants to pay more...all that matters to him is that Republicans cave (break their backs). It's strictly a political move for him.

Now, when the Republicans don't give him his proposal, and he is willing to go over the cliff over it, all of the Bush tax credits disappear, the payroll tax cut disappears, the estate tax increases, etc., the sequestration cuts kick in, and BO gets to blame the Republicans for it all. He gets the taxes he wants (in addition to the 23 new Obamacare taxes that go into effect at the same time) but on the backs of everyone including the middle class and poor, the military is gutted, and a few domestic programs get cut. He's rolling in money for a couple of months.........and then February hits the economy like a ton of bricks.........and it will still be blamed on the Republicans. But he will swoop in and get the middle class tax cuts in place (not quite soon enough to take away some of the hurt and many will lose jobs over this) and he will act like he saved the world.

In the meantime, the economy will tank (especially because of the military cuts which will affect hundreds of companies) and the unemployment will rise to over 9% again. And BO will own it all for the next four years....and he will continue to spend the new found money because it's all he knows and believes in. The money will dry up.......the Feds will print more........and the dollar devalues again. Soon, the only money that will be coming in on paper is the fines and penalties imposed by the IRS for Obamacare, EPA, etc. Good luck with that.

His win will be short lived........but he won't care........he has an agenda........we MUST become Europe at all costs......and it's all for our own good.

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About what I expected
by Josh K / December 4, 2012 11:52 PM PST
In reply to: Here's how

"Barack Obama's evil plot to destroy America (and in this case, much of the world along with it)."


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He IS a brilliant tactician, isn't he.
by JP Bill / December 5, 2012 2:18 AM PST
In reply to: Here's how

He's playing you like a fiddle.

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could you explain the "gutting" of the military?
by grimgraphix / December 5, 2012 1:47 AM PST
In reply to: Here's how BO wins

I mean to ask, has Obama or the democrats been on the record (or even off-the-record) at anytime, about how they wants to "gut" the military? Just what does he get out of it? What do the democrats get out of it?

You seem to be saying this is what they want to do. I could just as easily say that you want to kick puppies. Wouldn't you want to know why I would say it, or what I think your motivation for this desire is?

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I'm just as eager to hear....
by Josh K / December 5, 2012 4:35 AM PST

.....how the total destruction of the American economy is a "win" for Obama. This should be good. Wink

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what makes you so sure
by James Denison / December 5, 2012 4:38 AM PST

it would be the destruction of the economy? Cutting spending, raising taxes, starting to balance the budget, maybe start paying down the debt later, how does that destroy an economy? Fiscal Cliff sounds like the best plan so far to save the economy.

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Don't ask me, ask Toni
by Josh K / December 5, 2012 4:53 AM PST
In reply to: what makes you so sure

She's the one predicting economic armageddon and saying that is somehow a "win" for the president.

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the fiscal cliff
by James Denison / December 5, 2012 8:26 AM PST
In reply to: Don't ask me, ask Toni

as I understand it was setup as a win and loss for both sides, the ultimate compromise for times when compromise can be reached by no other means. Mutual pain for both sides. The end result later is hopefully mutual gain, for both, once the medicine has taken effect.

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I have no problem with
by TONI H / December 5, 2012 8:34 AM PST
In reply to: the fiscal cliff

going over that cliff and think it should be done.....and allow the economy to finally crawl back on a natural basis rather than in a false way via the government printing money for bailouts and stimulus. Unfortunately, BO will not only try to swoop in with all those goodies to 'save' everyone, he will also point the finger of blame directly on the Republicans.

The way I see it, the Reps will get blamed for compromising on taxes in any deal that comes forward before Jan 1, or they will be blamed if no deal gets made.......I figure they have nothing to lose so they might as well stand their ground at this point and let BO try and clean up the mess that he will, as the President, be responsible for.

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What if they take the opposite tactic?
by James Denison / December 5, 2012 8:47 AM PST
In reply to: I have no problem with

Tell everyone they disagree with BO's approach, but since he's the President and they have confidence if it doesn't work the people will know who to blame, they are going to give him all the rope he wants to hang himself with. I think either way they will get blamed because seemingly Reason and Logic has fled the mind of Democrats.

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The Republicans
by TONI H / December 5, 2012 8:59 AM PST

would have to spend a fortune on airtime with tv ads like they did for the actual election campaign to explain to the people what has happened and why.........blitz the news waves with a community organizing type mentality........grab another page from their playbook and use it against them.

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at this point
by James Denison / December 5, 2012 4:28 AM PST
In reply to: Here's how BO wins

I welcome the "fiscal cliff" because it's better than either side has proposed. The people should start having "over the cliff" parties to encourage Congress to take us right over it. Why not help a do nothing Congress do what it goes best,.....nothing?

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I actually have been thinking of something slightly differen
by Roger NC / December 5, 2012 10:55 AM PST
In reply to: at this point

that maybe since there will be no agreement on the taxes, the Republicans publically acknowledge it, and the Democrat acknowledge it.

Since they can't agree on tax changes, make a deal that allows the tax CUTS to expire, but as part of a agreement that also works on less rigid tax cuts.

The biggest threat according to some pundits from the fiscal cliff isn't the tax increase or the spending cuts, but the draconic cuts with mandated equal across the board.

For example, take Toni's biggest fear, the military cuts. I remember a discussion on a Sunday news talk show. Several agreed the military may be able to handle the budget cut amounts without that much distress if the Pentagon was allowed to do it strictly itself, without political interference and without the across the board cuts without adjustment the sequester bill requires.

Maybe they just agree on disagreeing, recognize the tax cuts are going o expire and we all go back to the taxes we paid during the years pre-911, and get on with making a deal that manages cuts on a more rational and gradually introduced basis.

I could easily agree on keeping the rates and reducing deductions, if I thought it would really be done in any meanful fashion. Maybe we should just do away with all deductions but a per dependent allowance and medical cost in excess of a defined percentage of income. That does away with loss deductions too in exchange for keeping the lower rate on capital gains. Nothing carried over, etc.

Or do away with all deductions, no exceptions, of course that mean bankruptcy for almost every major illness for the less than wealthy. So so we do away with bankrupcty now too? no one gets relief, if things go wrong, you're ruined for the rest of your life. That means someone is responsible for corporations losses too, no bankruptcy and ignoring debt for bad business decisions, someone would have to pay. Any past dividends or capital gains might be subject to claw back to pay corporation debt. Of course that would ruin all businesses, no one would invest in any speculation.

So is everyone on their own or not? and devil take the hindmost.

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